Mkikuyu- Akili timamu
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 16, 2018
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Propaganda za kishenzi eti sasa Kenya ipo mbele hata BRT ipo sasa tena ndefu zaidi 😀
Propaganda za kishenzi eti sasa Kenya ipo mbele hata BRT ipo sasa tena ndefu zaidi 😀Ninakushukuru sana kwa ushauri wako[emoji120] [emoji120] [emoji120]
Ngoja niachane nae aendelee kuamini propaganda za Jubilee
You can argue for Tz all you want, at the end of the day, those are the facts. That is not KCPE pass rate...This was a standadised test done by Uwezo in conjuction with world bank. They are the ones who came up with the basic maths test and then tested schools in every district in EA and those were the results...If Tz employs its own doctors to do specialist work while spending a mere 3.5% of its GDP, then it means that their education is more effective. Even if you look at other sectors, if they are using their own engineers to construct SGR While kenya employs chinese, then it simply means kenya is not frugal in how it spends money in education. More money does not mean better education.
And on the same note, a chart showing passing rate of students should be taken with a pinch of salt considering the many years of exam cheating that prevailed in kenya
[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]Propaganda za kishenzi eti sasa Kenya ipo mbele hata BRT ipo sasa tena ndefu zaidi 😀
People who are always claiming to be smart almost always end up the most ignorant critical thinkers who cant grasp anything...
Didnt you talk about having free primary and secondary education in your comment despite smaller budget? I have just shown you that the quality of education is way low compared to Kenya... so on that point, case closed.
The next point about the health system, first of all, health is connected to education, doctors learn in Universities, so poor education is directly propotional to Poor health system... and in that case, dont give me theoreticle explanation of how your health sectore is better, give evidence! Not facts pulled from thin air, give evidence of the number of liver transplant, cancer patients, kidney transplants handled in Tz .... give evidence that Tz general healthcare is better than Kenya.. like the way I have just done with education. if you cant do your arguments in that manner, then go learn how to base your arguments in facts and evidence and not just 'what you think'
See your focus is on basic education, We are talking about professionals in the medical/ whatever field. To my knowledge, No country in africa has as many and well educated professionals per capita as Nigeria, particularly in medicine engineering and Computer science..But look, they have worst basic education as per your chart! even worse than TzYou can argue for Tz all you want, at the end of the day, those are the facts. That is not KCPE pass rate...This was a standadised test done by Uwezo in conjuction with world bank. They are the ones who came up with the basic maths test and then tested schools in every district in EA and those were the results...
Even world bank did there own indipendent survey and Kenya emerged number on in offering quality basic education.
Arcoding to WB Kenya is the onlyone where Spending is effective... which means you are wrong to claim that Tz is more effective in education spending... thats why nawaambia mtumia facts ku argue instead of making stuff up!
View attachment 758952
See your focus is on basic education, We are talking about professionals in the medical/ whatever field. To my knowledge, No country in africa has as many and well educated professionals per capita as Nigeria, particularly in medicine engineering and Computer science..But look, they have worst basic education as per your chart! even worse than TzYou can argue for Tz all you want, at the end of the day, those are the facts. That is not KCPE pass rate...This was a standadised test done by Uwezo in conjuction with world bank. They are the ones who came up with the basic maths test and then tested schools in every district in EA and those were the results...
Even world bank did there own indipendent survey and Kenya emerged number on in offering quality basic education.
Arcoding to WB Kenya is the onlyone where Spending is effective... which means you are wrong to claim that Tz is more effective in education spending... thats why nawaambia mtumia facts ku argue instead of making stuff up!
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Engineer boya, I thought you blocked me? 😀You're wasting time on this one. He has an IQ of a sick goat.
1st ever kidney transplant on tanzanian soil happened In 2017 done by indian doctors at muhimbili.in aliopandikizwa figo MNH waruhusiwa
Like heart surgery, kidney transplantation is becoming a daily procedure in Tanzania Goverment Hospitals
So you assume there are no Tz Doctors doing transplants? Give evidence of 50% operations in Tz being done by Foreigners otherwise we conclude that you are simply angry1st ever kidney transplant on tanzanian soil happened In 2017 done by indian doctors at muhimbili.
View attachment 758972 View attachment 758976
2nd ever kidney transplant in Tz , done at benjamin mkapa
2018
View attachment 758973
Your article talks of two transplants making it 4 transplants ever done in Tanzania, atleast 50% done by foreigners
There are 4 transplants done in Tz (aatleast in public knowledge) of these, the firstand the second were led by foreigners as shown in those pictures and told in the articles I got them from... hence the 50% claimMkikuyu- Akili timamu post: 26876541 said:So you assume there are no Tz Doctors doing transplants? Give evidence of 50% operations in Tz being done by Foreigners otherwise we conclude that you are simply angry
Lets drop that line coz you are working on assumptions. Those people on that picture may not be the surgons -lead surgeons, they may be support staff in such areas as euthanasia etc. Neither can you prove the number of such procedures in Tz per year or nationalities of such doctors.There are 4 transplants done in Tz (aatleast in public knowledge) of these, the firstand the second were led by foreigners as shown in those pictures and told in the articles I got them from... hence the 50% claim
Law now makes it easier for Kenyans to donate body organs
On the other hand KNH does atleast 2 kidney transplants everymonth since ealry 2000's ... thats 24 transplants every year. And now Mbagathi and MTRH also started doing transplants
At the country’s only public kidney transplantation unit of Kenyatta National Hospital, there are about 200 patients on the waiting list. On average the renal unit does two transplants in a month.
Law now makes it easier for Kenyans to donate body organs
And then someone claims that they are better at it than us
Those are not assmptions, they are facts, and thats the realityLets drop that line coz you are working on assumptions. Those people on that picture may not be the surgons -lead surgeons, they may be support staff in such areas as euthanasia etc. Neither can you prove the number of such procedures in Tz per year or nationalities of such doctors.
Its better to accept the reality that Jubilee has totaly gone wrong on the cuban doctors saga and that fact alone proves the lack of confidence in our own medical doctors and ability(education systems)to train our own specialists, a fact that Tz has succeded in
Since you like facts, Bring facts like 100 doctors hired from india by Tz..Or 50% of all specialist operations in Tz are done by foreigners or 200 specialist operations are done per year in Tz.First Kidney Transplant in Tanzania By Indian Doctors
First Kidney Transplant in Tanzania By Indian Doctors
November 28, 2017
Dr H S Bhatyal, Head of Urology and Kidney Transplantation at BLK Super Speciality Hospital, who headed the team, said, “The recipient is a 30-year-old teacher. The donor is a 27-year-old man, the patient’s brother. Since it was the first case, we did not choose a high-risk patient.”The retrieval and the kidney transplant which are two different surgeries took place simultaneously. Both went smoothly. Apart from two nephrologists, the anesthesia team and the critical care team were from India. The Tanzanian team helped us throughout.
Those are not assmptions, they are facts, and thats the reality
The Tz doctors were mere spectetors, read the last sentence "The Tanzanian team helped us throughout" . Thats the definition of a nurses job! That was the first surgery ever and it happened november 2017, so how many sugeries (kidney transplant ) have they done since then?
Every rule has to be true for the majority for it to be widely accepted, but there will always be exeptions, Nigeria is one of those,even when it comes to GDP/capita, theirs is very high but interms of HDI all EA countries perform better. half of the country north sees going to school or seeing a doctor as a taboo.See your focus is on basic education, We are talking about professionals in the medical/ whatever field. To my knowledge, No country in africa has as many and well educated professionals per capita as Nigeria, particularly in medicine engineering and Computer science..But look, they have worst basic education as per your chart! even worse than Tz
So you dont even understand the data you post from google
I dont need to, t wont prove anything aboutthe health sector of Tz.. it doesnt really matter, 100 specalists doctors coming from Cuba to Kenya could mean many things. I mean, one of the surgeons that separated the conjoined twins last year at KNH was a Kenyan Doctor based in SA, does that mean SA doesnt have its own qualified doctors that they highered the Kenyan paying him 1m a month????Since you like facts, Bring facts like 100 doctors hired from india by Tz..Or 50% of all specialist operations in Tz are done by foreigners or 200 specialist operations are done per year in Tz.
Giving an example of 1 operation the first one is not a good statistic of what is happening there. And Kidney transplant is not the only specialist operation in the medical field.
Let me give you a good fact: Kenya is importing 100 specialists from cuba and we are yet to know the details of their field of specialisation, and from history of cuban medical doctors, the ones they export are normally general practitioners especially young collage grads.
I remember in my previous post I said you are very weak to participate in this type of high voltage discussion, please be informed that, Tanzania has the biggest and well equipped cancer Hospital called Ocean Road cancer Institute which save all region including Kenya, you can't find such big and well equipped cancer Hospital any where in East and central Africa(please consult google).Every rule has to be true for the majority for it to be widely accepted, but there will always be exeptions, Nigeria is one of those,even when it comes to GDP/capita, theirs is very high but interms of HDI all EA countries perform better. half of the country north sees going to school or seeing a doctor as a taboo.
And speaking of professionals, here is the one done on the state of healthcare system in EA, Here, the WB went around physically inspecting hospitals and testing doctors,nurses, clinical officers on treating the most common diseases that kill the most in this region...things like Malaria, TB, cholera. And once again, I used evidence to show Kenya healthcare is better than Tz....
And if will notice, even the WB tested Healthcare and Education and presented them in the same report on SDIs, goes to show that Education is directly related to the quality of Doctors
View attachment 759257
Read this:
In health, Uganda performed better than Kenya on input
indicators and adherence to guidelines. However, Kenyan
health providers were 20 percent more likely to get the
diagnosis right and were twice as likely to correctly
manage maternal and neonatal complications. Despite
a slightly higher caseload in Uganda (10 vs 9) Kenya’s
public providers seemed to exert a higher level of effort
because of the very high absenteeism rate observed in
Uganda. Except for absenteeism, providers in Senegal
and Tanzania performed poorly when compared to
Uganda and Kenya on diagnostic accuracy, adherence to
guidelines, and input indicators.
Doctors in Uganda performed at about the same level as Kenyan nurses on both diagnostic accuracy and the
capability to provide full treatment.
==== The Tanzanian doctors were 1% below Uganan doctors, The Ugandan Doctors performed the same level as Kenyan nurses in the public hospitals countrywide that these tests were done, So where does that leave the Tanzanian doctors when compared to Kenyan?
So once again, bado nangoja hii proof that Tanzania has a better healthcare system than Kenya, when Tanzania doctors in public hospital could not even correctly diagnose diseases lt alone prescribe the right treatment!
Such a report says Nothing about the effectiveness of Doctors. Use medical reports of succeful X,Y,Z diseases treated per year aganist prevalence as an example. A report that says UG doctors are more likely to follow procedure than kenyan doctors while kenyan doctors are more likely to get the diagnosis right is not a base of gauging the education or effectivness doctors.Every rule has to be true for the majority for it to be widely accepted, but there will always be exeptions, Nigeria is one of those,even when it comes to GDP/capita, theirs is very high but interms of HDI all EA countries perform better. half of the country north sees going to school or seeing a doctor as a taboo.
And speaking of professionals, here is the one done on the state of healthcare system in EA, Here, the WB went around physically inspecting hospitals and testing doctors,nurses, clinical officers on treating the most common diseases that kill the most in this region...things like Malaria, TB, cholera. And once again, I used evidence to show Kenya healthcare is better than Tz....
And if will notice, even the WB tested Healthcare and Education and presented them in the same report on SDIs, goes to show that Education is directly related to the quality of Doctors
View attachment 759257
Read this:
In health, Uganda performed better than Kenya on input
indicators and adherence to guidelines. However, Kenyan
health providers were 20 percent more likely to get the
diagnosis right and were twice as likely to correctly
manage maternal and neonatal complications. Despite
a slightly higher caseload in Uganda (10 vs 9) Kenya’s
public providers seemed to exert a higher level of effort
because of the very high absenteeism rate observed in
Uganda. Except for absenteeism, providers in Senegal
and Tanzania performed poorly when compared to
Uganda and Kenya on diagnostic accuracy, adherence to
guidelines, and input indicators.
Doctors in Uganda performed at about the same level as Kenyan nurses on both diagnostic accuracy and the
capability to provide full treatment.
==== The Tanzanian doctors were 1% below Uganan doctors, The Ugandan Doctors performed the same level as Kenyan nurses in the public hospitals countrywide that these tests were done, So where does that leave the Tanzanian doctors when compared to Kenyan?
So once again, bado nangoja hii proof that Tanzania has a better healthcare system than Kenya, when Tanzania doctors in public hospital could not even correctly diagnose diseases lt alone prescribe the right treatment!
See the hypocricy, Kenyans have specialists..Many of them some even working outside the country meaning it has capacity to train specialists. And what does the Jubilee government do? Import Cubans. How silly is that?I dont need to, t wont prove anything aboutthe health sector of Tz.. it doesnt really matter, 100 specalists doctors coming from Cuba to Kenya could mean many things. I mean, one of the surgeons that separated the conjoined twins last year at KNH was a Kenyan Doctor based in SA, does that mean SA doesnt have its own qualified doctors that they highered the Kenyan paying him 1m a month????
Do you know that there are about 200 Kenyan doctors and 400 Nurses working in Namibia, Bostwana, SA? Do you know that the dean of medicine at Namibia's top medical university has been a Kenyan or the last decade? Namibia alone has about 45 kenyan doctors and they have one of the best health care ..... It doesnt really prove or disproove anything, what proves something are the country statistics, things like child mortality rates, malaria deaths, cancer deaths, TB deaths, malnutrition rates,... deceases that are supposed to be prevantable ad treatable
Namibia: Country Asks Kenya for Doctors
By Alvine Kapitako
2011
Windhoek — Namibia through the Minister of Health and Social Services, Dr Richard Kamwi, this week requested an additional 100 Kenyan nurses and 26 doctors from his Kenyan counterpart, Professor Peter Anyang' Nyongo.
Currently, there are 93 Kenyan nurses and about 20 doctors and other expatriates working in public hospitals across Namibia
http://allafrica.com/stories/201109301154.html
Big statement, lots of claims..... But no facts to back it up ....I remember in my previous post I said you are very weak to participate in this type of high voltage discussion, please be informed that, Tanzania has the biggest and well equipped cancer Hospital called Ocean Road cancer Institute which save all region including Kenya, you can't find such big and well equipped cancer Hospital any where in East and central Africa(please consult google).
Tanzania has the biggest and ultramodern cardiac institute, the best in sub Sahara Africa without South Africa, it serves many countries including Kenya. There is MoU between Malawi and Tanzania such that it will serve Malawi as well, Malawian will be treated as Tanzanian, that means cardiac patients from Malawi will no longer go India or South Africa. Remember Tanzania is the only country in EA, that doesn't send their cardiac patients abroad, Kenya does in big numbers.
Tanzania recently has started to perform kidney transplant in two Hospitals, Kenya started this procedure a earlier than Tanzania, but in Tanzania procedure is cheaper by 50% compared to Kenya.
Tanzania is performing cochlear inplant surgery at Muhimbili, this surgery is very complicated and expensive, it needs very advanced machines and well trained personals, Kenya only Karen Hospital did about 3 operations under support of Indian doctors, no Kenyan Government Hospital can even dream to perform this procedure.
Tanzania recently launched very advanced Hospital, which is of its kind in sub Sahara Africa, it has all facilities needed in new world of medicines (Mloganzila teaching Hospital.).Tanzania produces about 1000 doctors per year, Kenya only 600 per year.
Why do you take only renal transplant because Kenya is also doing to be your only point to compare with Tanzania?. Tanzania is very far ahead of Kenya in medical field my brother.
Thats why Kenyan doctors are now paid the equivalent of what SA, Namibian doctors are paid, So that they dont have do costus brain drain, by leaving the contry for better paySee the hypocricy, Kenyans have specialists..Many of them some even working outside the country meaning it has capacity to train specialists. And what does the Jubilee government do? Import Cubans. How silly is that?
Mbona inaonekama kama bado hujavunja ungo?, akili zako ni za kitoto sana, mimi nimekuletea vitu vinavyotumika kuonyesha Tanzania imeizidi Kenya, kama vile Hospitali kubwa zenye vifaa vya kisasa na aina ya operation na idadi ya operations zinazofanyika, wewe badala ya kujibu kwanza hizo nilizokuletea, wewe unaleta vitu vingine ambavyo havionyeshi ubora na kiwango cha service inayotolewa.Big statement, lots of claims..... But no facts to back it up ....
Youre Universities churn out Doctors who cant diagnose sh!t....
Leta evidence sio stry nyingi tu, ukisema most mordern, au biggest.. leta na takwiu zake.
Kenya has six cardiac centers, Tanzania has two .
1.Kenya has 17 Cardiac and thoracic surgeons Tanzania has 16 (Haapa pkeyake ndo mmetukaribia) Browse for healthcare providers – select a country
2. Kenya has 12 plastic surgeons, Tanzania has 1
Browse for healthcare providers – select a country
3. Kenya has 268 general surgeons, Tanzania has 68
Browse for healthcare providers – select a country
4. Kenya has 22 Neurosurgeons, Tanzania has 4
Browse for healthcare providers – select a country
5. Kenya has 88 ENTsurgions Tanzzania has 39
Browse for healthcare providers – select a country
Alafu you want to claim that Tanzana is far ahead in the medical field 😱🙄😳 😛😛😛