Case study: Waliosoma english medium ni "wazuri" kuliko waliosoma shule za kawaida

paparazzi said:

Kiranga...
Wewe si wa kawaida mkuu, there's a need to scrutinize your IQ, aint manifesting your superhumanity but your smartness upstairs...
Always snatching your notions mkuu...
Bado najifunza

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You are far too kind mkuu, far too kind.

Where I am from I am just a dwarf among giants. Kuna ma Imhotep na ma Cheik Anta Diop wa leo wapo tu mtaani, bongo inaumiza.

Kwa hiyo nakushukuru lakini sifa nazikataa. Tatizo wachakaramu ndio tunashinda gumzoni hapa, kuna vipanga wanatunga sheria hata muda wa kuchungulia hapa wanakosa.

I briefly taught at an English medium school in the 90s ( I guess I can be called Mwalimu Kiranga by some) so my views are partially based on first hand experience.

mwekundu said:

Hiyo case study ni ya kweli kabisa,ila hii issue imefika hapo kwa sababu ya ukoloni mamboleo(Neo_colonialism) huwa tunahusianisha maarifa na kiingereza,kimtaani taani mtu anayepiga english sana anachukuliwa ana akili sana na kasoma sana
Swali tujiulize je Waingereza wote ni ma genius?
Kuna uhusiano gani kati ya kiingereza na ujuzi(knowledges),utadi(skills) za mtu?
Germany(nchi inayoongoza uchumi Europe) kijerumani ndo lugha ya taifa
China,Japan,Scandinavia countries,French wanatumia lugha zao still ziko developed
Mimi nashauri kwenye interviews,madarasani etc watu wapimwe kutokana na uwezo wao wa kufikiria(IQ) na sio English

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Unachoongea ni sawa. Kwa bahati mbaya ni kwamba sasa maendeleo yanahusiana moja kwa moja na uchumi wa dunia (global economy). Iwe kwenye uchumi, iwe kwenye sayansi nk, maendeleo yake yanategemea sana global networks ambazo msingi wake mkuu ni mawasiliano.

Ndio maana pamoja na kupiga kwao hatua, China imeamua kuwa miaka 20 ijayo itakuwa ndilo taifa lenye watu wengi zaidi wanaoongea kiingereza duniani. Wameona umuhimu wa kuwa na global networks...

King'asti said:

Sio kweli kabisa. Wengi wetu tumesoma st kayumba na tuliongea kiingereza fluently by the time tunaanza form one. Sio shule zote za kiswahili zina elimu mbovu. Kuna watoto wa ndugu yangu wanasoma mlimani primary ambayo ni 5 minutes walk kutoka kwao, na nikikutana nao tunapiga umombo na hawana tofauti na wenzao wanaosoma laureate na genesis.

Uwezo wa mtoto au mwanafunzi for that matter unategemea kiasi kikubwa malezi ya familia na waliomzunguka ukiachia huko shuleni alikotoka. Kama walimu ndo wajo miserable, hawajielewi na wana kaxi ya kulaani serikali, watoto wanakuwa wanajionea shuda tu.

Ni jinsi gani mtoto anakuzwa akijiamini, ni jinsi gani anakuwa hamasishwa kutoka nje ya box na kufikia mbingu mpya. Na hii mara nyingi inapatikana kwa familia ambazo zinapeleka watoto huko academia. Hivi umeshasikia vingereza vya hao walimu wa academia vilivyo na nyufa!?

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Isolated cases zipo na ndio maana nika-site hizo research articles hapo juu. Hii ni challenge kwa watafiti waliopo kwenye field ya education. Wachukue sample ya watoto kadhaa kutoka St Kayumba, na watoto kadhaa kutoka Eng medium.. Siamini kama kutakuwa na ngoma droo kwenye kuonega kiingereza

Rugambwa31 said:

Mwekundu umesema kweli mtupu, nchi nyingi zilizo endelea wanatumia lugha zao, vyuo vikuu unakuta wanafunzi wanajifunza lugha kama kingereza kwa njia mbalimbali kama CDs kusikiliza, kuongea na mwisho kufanya mtihani na kupata cheti kabisa ndiyo wanasonga mbele.

Watanzania tuache kasumba ya kutopenda lugha yetu, tupambane mashuleni kuanzia chini hadi vyuo vikuu kiswahili kitumike na kingereza kisomwe kama somo tutafika mbali. Nashangaa sana wazazi wa siku hizi yani mtoto vidudu au shule ya msingi anavyoongea kingereza wanaona ndiyo anazo akili kumbe sio kabisa.

Hiyo 'case study" yako naona imeacha sababu nyingi sana zinazo pelekea hao waliosoma shule za kingereza kuwa hivyo.

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Ninachomaanisha hapa sio kwamba kujua kutumia kiingereza ni akili hapana. Bali ni added advantage kwenye fursa nyingi...

Ndumbayeye said:

1.English medium schools schools ni shule zilizosheheni resources za kutosha kama madarasa, vitabu, maabara nk

2. Walimu wake wanafundisha ama kwa kuswagwa vizuri na wenye shule au kufurahia malipo kulingana na wenzao hasa serikalini

3. Wanaosoma shule za kiingereza wengi wao wanatoka kwenye mazingira mazuri majumbani, ama wazazi wao wameneemeka kwa elimu na uchumi imara

4. Kwa uwazi kabisa watoto wakali watakopitia shule hizi watakimbiza sana kwenye soko la ajira linalotawaliwa na lugha ya kiingereza, na sio kila mtoto atatamba

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Nakubaliana na wewe kuwa eng medium zina resources za ziada. pamoja na hilo naamini kuwa hata tukiweka vitu vingine constant, mtoto aliyemaliza eng medium ana chance kubwa zaidi ya kuweza kutumia kiingereza vizuri zaidi...

C programming said:

hahaahaa ndugu....yangu hizo ni stori za vijiwe vya kahawa...ni hivi nisikilize nikwambie....

1.katika swala la ajira...watu huajiriwa kwa kuangalia taaluma yako..au fani yako...na sio kujua kiingereza moja...
2.waajiri wengi huwa wanangalia una nini kichwani.....we unafikili kazi kama mechanical,electrical,nedicine. lazima uwe mtaalamu wa mambo na sio english broo

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Mojawapo ya hizo taaluma ulizotaja ndipo nilipo... Ningeweza tu kuongea kwa mifano ya "mtaani" lakini nimeamua ki-site research articles ili tujadili kwa facts zaidi...

Visenti said:

UMESEMA UKWELI KABISA, LUGHA YA KINGEREZA SIYO SULUHISHO LA KUBORESHA USHINDANI KTK SOKO LA AJIRA, mimi kiingereza changu cha kuongea ni POOR - AVERAGE, lakini ni kiwango ambacho ninawazidi Wajerumani , Waholanzi, Wagiriki, Wajapani na Warussi ndyo kabisa kule naweza kuajiliwa nikawa Mwalimu wa kiingereza chuo kikuu, ukiancha waingereza wenyewe, wananchi ambao ni wasomi ktk nchi nyingi za Ulaya Ki-english chao ni cha kuungaunga tu, lakini wako vizuri sana ktk fani zao walizosomea?

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Ninachoona hapa ni kwamba watu wengi wamatoa mifano ya wao wenyewe au watu wachache... Mimi nimeongelea generalized conclusion lakini najua kuwa exceptional cases zipo...

Kiranga said:

Obviously, you either have not understood the mere gist of my post, or did not address it, possibly both.

I haven't said whether English or Swahili is better. In a globalized workforce, English is a tool that one can certainly not ignore.

My point is, for those who think that English is better, how sure can they be that this advance we see among some in English is due to the English medium schools and not the home environment and other factors that is ascribed to those in the socioeconomic bracket that could afford to go to English medium schools?

I noted that correlation does not equal causation.

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Kuna mambo mawili
A to B
The
B to C

C Ni opportunities
B ni kiingereza kizuri (kutumia) na
A ni aina ya shule (English or "Kiswahili medium)

My point is, When A is an english medium, it gives one an added advantage of having B, and when one is having B, he has an added advantage of getting C. Hadi sasa naona watu wengi wanakubali positive correlation between B and C and not A and B.
binafsi bado naona kuna correlation in both...

kudundu said:

Sikubaliani name we we kwa asilimia zaidi ya mia

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Kwa nini...

Kiranga said:

Hii ni point muhimu sana katika kuijibu kwa sehemu ndogo hoja yangu ya "imekuwaje Kiranga aliyesoma shule za serikali kaweza angalau Kiingereza cha kuombea maji halafu wanafunzi wa leo washindwe vibaya kabisa".

Kile ambacho ningependa kujua ni kuona wanafunzi wanaotoka katika socioeconomic backround ya kuweza kumudu kusoma English medium, ambao hawasomi English medium, uwezo wao wa kusema na kuandika kiingereza ukoje?

That is assuming there is such a crowd remaining.

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Naamini kuna watafiti wa hayo mambo watapita hapa, wataona hii "research question" waifanyie kazi.

Kiranga said:

Bebe nang'ho!

Sio hatari wala nini, cha kawaida tu. Tatizo inawezekana viwango vyetu viko chini sana kiasi mtu anayeandika Kiingereza cha kawaida tu, kisicho exceptional in any way lakini kizuri, kinaonekana cha juu sana.

Hakuna shortcut, kusoma sana, kujifunza sana, kujenga msuli wa msamiati na ufasaha kwa miaka nenda miaka rudi, mawazo ya uchunguzi ambayo hayatachoshwa na mfumo wa ajabu wa lugha hii, matokeo yatajionesha.

Halafu kama alivyosema mdau hapo juu, zamani kidogo unaweza kumkuta Mwalimu Lulindi kaingia darasani anaanza kukueleza kuhusu Socrates na falsafa zake (form one hapo), unataka kujua zaidi huyu Socrates alikuwa nani, unakuta vitabu vyote vinavyomuelezea Socrates ni vya Kiingereza, na wewe unataka kujua, inabidi usome tu, hata kama kwa kamusi pembeni.

Siku hizi shule za kata unaweza kukuta huyo mwalimu mwenyewe wa vodafasta hajawahi kumsikia Socrates!

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you are one of those are inspire mi to improve my english language every day...

osokonoi said:

Tafsiri ya heading yako ni kwamba unawaongelea wale ambao tayari wamekwisha pita level ya primary, secondary and universities (hili linajionyesha pale ulipotaja uwezo wa kwenye interviews za kazi)Now, kuniaminisha juu ya case study yako, naomba unitajie watu muhimu kwenye inchi yetu ambao wamesoma english medium na siyo shule za kawaida

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Sidhani kama nitakuwa sawa nikiongelea individual cases...

Hapa naona ni muendelezo ule ule wa kuhusisha Kiingereza na uwezo wa kiakili!

Mjuni Lwambo said:

I think Geza Ulole is Kenyan!!, I am not astonished for a Kenyan to be good in English cause it is their National Language.

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Hmm...unajua kwa mtu (tuseme mtu A) asiyeijua vizuri lugha fulani ni rahisi sana kuona au kudhani kuwa fulani mwingine (mtu B) anaijua vizuri hiyo lugha anayoizungumza kwa sababu hata huyo mtu B akikosea, wewe (mtu A) ambaye huijui vizuri hiyo lugha anayoongea (mtu B) itakuwia vigumu kuyang'amua makosa yake.

Binafsi sijavutiwa hata kidogo na uwezo wa Wakenya wa kuongea Kiingereza. Sasa sijui wewe mwenzangu kilichokuvutia ni nini hadi uwamwagie sifa kihivyo?

Yap huyo Kiranga mazingira aliokulia ndio yamempa uwezo alio nao,lakini ni wangapi wamekulia mazingira kama ya kwake,you said it well Lonestriker,na hata hivyo anaoneka alitumia nguvu nyingi sana kujua kizungu halafu anataka njia aliopitia yeye iwe kama mfano.Tusidanganyane bana kizungu kinatumika Dunia nzima na imeshakuwa hivyo na haitabadilika nyie na umasikini wenu bado mnataka kung'ang'ana na kiswahili chenu,subirini muone wakenya na waganda watakavyokuwa wanachukua ajira kiulaini tutakapoingia kwenye muungano wa Afrika mashariki.

We're in the same boat man, I feel what you saying. Going to Medium School doesn't guarantee that you'll be fluent and good at it, environment matters too, but when comparing lets say two people, one went to medium school plus good environment, and the other person went to local school but had good environment of self learning English, both will be good at English but the medium school guy will be much more better since he is 7 years ahead speaking from the second guy who wasted same 7 years from school. I guess my point is fairly enough for you noted. Thanks

Kiranga said:

Obviously, you either have not understood the mere gist of my post, or did not address it, possibly both.

I haven't said whether English or Swahili is better. In a globalized workforce, English is a tool that one can certainly not ignore.

My point is, for those who think that English is better, how sure can they be that this advance we see among some in English is due to the English medium schools and not the home environment and other factors that is ascribed to those in the socioeconomic bracket that could afford to go to English medium schools?

I noted that correlation does not equal causation.

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We're in the same boat man, I feel what you saying. Going to Medium School doesn't guarantee that you'll be fluent and good at it, environment matters too, but when comparing lets say two people, one went to medium school plus good environment, and the other person went to local school but had good environment of self learning English, both will be good at English but the medium school guy will be much more better since he is 7 years ahead speaking from the second guy who wasted same 7 years from school. I guess my point is fairly enough for you noted. Thanks

Lonestriker said:

Asante kwa kunihurumia lakini kunihurumia bila kunisahisha hainisaidii kitu. Nasubiri masahisho yako. Kama unaamini Kiranga alijifunza lugha kutokana na movies na nyimbo za Marekani (labda kuna tofauti kati ya 'movies' na 'muvy' kama ulivyoandika) nashindwa jinsi ya kuuchukulia ushauri wako. Kiranga anaweza kuwa alipata mwanga mkubwa wa lugha kutoka kwenye filamu za marekani lakini bottomline Kiranga ANASOMA na ANAPENDA KUSOMA. Acha porojo za filamu.

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Unaonekana umeumia sana mimi kukusahihisha, ndo maana nkamalizia na samahani kama ntakua nimekukwaza, kingereza chako kinaeleweka lakini sicho kingereza kinachozungumzwa na waingereza wenyewe, yaani cha kwako ni cha kishule zaidi, sihitaji mabishano, u wise enough u put dat in2 consideration. hlf mie kuandika muvy usifkiri kua sijui km inaandikwa movies, hyo ni kifupisho 2 km vile mtu akaandika lol, brb, g2g, tc, c'mon, fy, na zingine nyng. unataka kuongea vizuri, achana na dictionary na vitabu vya literature, cheki muvy na skiliza nyimbo hlf fatilizia itakusaidia kuweka sawa na hata kuongea haraka na faida nyingi tu. Narudia tena na tena Samahani sana, asiekubali kusahihishwa basi hatojua kamwe. Samahani kwa kukwaza kwa mara ingine tena. ASANTE

Tuko said:

Kuna mambo mawili
A to B
The
B to C

C Ni opportunities
B ni kiingereza kizuri (kutumia) na
A ni aina ya shule (English or "Kiswahili medium)

My point is, When A is an english medium, it gives one an added advantage of having B, and when one is having B, he has an added advantage of getting C. Hadi sasa naona watu wengi wanakubali positive correlation between B and C and not A and B.
binafsi bado naona kuna correlation in both...

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Upo sahihi kabisa na nakuunga mkono. lugha ni rahisi kukamatwa mtu mwenye umri mdogo kuliko aliekua, sasa kipindi cha muhimu sn cha motto kujua lugha hasa ya kiingereza ni kwanzia miaka 5 hadi 13, na ndo umri wa primary huo. motto anaenda secondary hajui kbsa kingereza ndo anaanza hapo ni mtihani mkubwa sn sn. wakenya na wauganda wanigeria na wengine wengi wametuzidia hapo tu. sisi watanzania tunakosa ajira nchini mwetu na nchi za nje, angalia nchi za nje kazi zote km za security wanachukua wakenya na wanigeria sisi hatuna soko, mtu hajasoma na kibaya kingereza hajui, anaendelea, hatuna exposure, mkenya na mnigeria hata hajaenda shule na anajua kingereza, wanapata ajira maana wanajua jinsi ya ku communicate lugha hyo ilioenea duniani kote. sasa sijui watu wanachobishania ni kipi hasa. ni kweli unaweza kwenda English medium na ukawa sio mzuri wa kingereza lakini bila juhudi yyte utajua kuongea tu japo sio fluent, lakini huyu anaenda local school lugha hiyo hataiweza maana hana opportunity hiyo ya kusoma japo akiweka juhudi zake kujisomesha mwenyewe na familia ikawa strict atajua tu, lakini ni ngumu mtu kujituma kujihangaikia mwenyewe kujua lugha hasa kwa umri wa motto mdogo aiejua hata nini muhimu wa lugha.

Tuko said:

Unachoongea ni sawa. Kwa bahati mbaya ni kwamba sasa maendeleo yanahusiana moja kwa moja na uchumi wa dunia (global economy). Iwe kwenye uchumi, iwe kwenye sayansi nk, maendeleo yake yanategemea sana global networks ambazo msingi wake mkuu ni mawasiliano.

Ndio maana pamoja na kupiga kwao hatua, China imeamua kuwa miaka 20 ijayo itakuwa ndilo taifa lenye watu wengi zaidi wanaoongea kiingereza duniani. Wameona umuhimu wa kuwa na global networks...

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Ndio maana mwanzoni mwa karne ya 20 nchi zote kubwa zilijaribu kusambaza lugha zao mfano Spanish, French, Latin, Kijerumani nk. Na hata ukiangalia Arabic walijitahidi kuisambaza lakini imekuwa ni lugha inayohusiana kwa kiasi kikubwa na dini badala ya uchumi zaidi. Leo tunakuta kuwa miaka zaidi ya 100 baadae Kiingereza kimeibuka kuwa lugha ya kusambazia elimu na shughuli za uchumi kulinganisha na hizi zingine na ndio maana tunalazimika kuikumbatia. Hatujui dunia itakuwaje miaka mingine 100, 200 ijayo lakini kwa sasa Kiingereza hakiepukiki na kinyume chake ni kukubali kupitwa na mengi.