Hivi SGR ya Kenya ni kwa ajili ya Watalii au Wakenya wa kawaida?

kennedy0000 said:

SGR only needs to pay for its day to day running. It is not a profit minting project.
If it ends up actually turning a profit, that will be welcome but wasn't the main reason for construction.
When the line is complete and all logistic hurdles sorted, now you can judge it if it doesn't pay for its own operation.

And you keep missing the point. When you say there are no malls etc, you are ignoring the fact that the SGR was a freight first line. There will be 56 locomotives, and only 4 have been designated for passengers.
That tells you where the focus is.

Also, when all phases are complete, traffic and frequency of rides will go up. The already booming business at stations will also go up substantially.

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Boss, table the document showing the max axle weight for sgr is not 25T or forever keep quiet.
And no, I have not missed any point SGR was sold as a project with both direct and indirect benefits..Table the economic analysis the same way I have tabled Thika road. And then point out from the document which indirect benefits have been achieved or are currently being developed with impetus from the SGR..
In absence of these two issues, you are simply blowing hot air

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Boss, understand that the SGR capacity to load is determined by the maximum axle load which is 25T..you can stack as many containers as you want but the axle load must not exceed 25T which is equivalent to Just 1 40Ft container..
The 24 trains per day is not a figure plucked from the Air, its with calculation of time used at train passing stations..
About thika Road:
Fuel levy paid by cars using the road is Direct Revenue..Indirect revenue is the more businesses that have sprung up along the road..and the new rentals -its suddely seems like everyone wants to live/rent along thika road

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Aren't you the same person who was criticising Thika road the other day?....kwani what happened.

Sherlock said:

Aren't the same person who was criticising Thika road the other day?....kwani what happened.

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eongea sense sana. Shida ya kenya ni kukosa ku "reflect". Nakumbuka mwaka wa 2010 David Ndii alisema hamna haja ya kujenga Super Highway,BRT ijengwe na kuwe na mabasi ya umma.
Alipingwa na kuambiwa kwamba yeye hataki maendeleo..Sasa hivi miaka 7 imepita na Thika super highway ni Mifoleni tuu na ajali kila siku

Sherlock said:

eongea sense sana. Shida ya kenya ni kukosa ku "reflect". Nakumbuka mwaka wa 2010 David Ndii alisema hamna haja ya kujenga Super Highway,BRT ijengwe na kuwe na mabasi ya umma.
Alipingwa na kuambiwa kwamba yeye hataki maendeleo..Sasa hivi miaka 7 imepita na Thika super highway ni Mifoleni tuu na ajali kila siku

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This is are your words

Sherlock said:

Aren't you the same person who was criticising Thika road the other day?....kwani what happened.

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Sherlock said:

eongea sense sana. Shida ya kenya ni kukosa ku "reflect". Nakumbuka mwaka wa 2010 David Ndii alisema hamna haja ya kujenga Super Highway,BRT ijengwe na kuwe na mabasi ya umma.
Alipingwa na kuambiwa kwamba yeye hataki maendeleo..Sasa hivi miaka 7 imepita na Thika super highway ni Mifoleni tuu na ajali kila siku

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Sherlock said:

This is are your words

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Wewe unajichanganya. BRT is more beneficial than superhighway that now less than 10 years is usualy Jam packed and ineffient
BRT is better than superhighway both in direct and inderect economic measures and that stament stands even today

pingli-nywee said:

Mleta mada, hata cargo, mizigo pia ambayo ndio ilikuwa lengo kuu la SGR huwa ni ya 'watalii' wa kibiashara. Sijui unamaanishaje ukisema watalii. Utalii sio kwa wageni tu, au wazungu. Jinasue kutoka kwa mtego wa minyororo ya kiakili, ya kikoloni.

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aaassseeeeh!!!

sundoka said:

Hela nyingi sana hii. Ni kati ya 200,000/ hadi 250,000/ ya Tz. Kweli hii ni ya watalii sio wakenya kwa matumizi ya kawaida badala ya mabasi

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

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Umezidishaje??????

kennedy0000 said:

The SGR has a lot of cargo capacity. Unlike the weak SGR your'e constructing, ours can take double stacked containers.
It will take decades to get close to full capacity.
Also, when you say 24 trains per day, I don't know where you collect your figures. There is a reason we built so many stations so that trains can pass each other. With proper scheduling, we can do more.

You also assume that all the trains will start in Nairobi and stop in Mombasa, or vice versa. When complete, we have trains from Kisumu or Malaba and Naivasha, and especially with cargo, Mombasa doesn't have to be the final destination.
With the industrial park, Naivasha to Nairobi should be busy.

But I see you've finally seen the light and agreed that Thika road contributes no direct revenue, while the SGR has both direct and indirect revenue.

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Uganda is slow on decision to fund the sgr,what if kenya built up to malaba border and ugandans collect their containers from there??btw how many kms remains to malaba??

Sherlock said:

eongea sense sana. Shida ya kenya ni kukosa ku "reflect". Nakumbuka mwaka wa 2010 David Ndii alisema hamna haja ya kujenga Super Highway,BRT ijengwe na kuwe na mabasi ya umma.
Alipingwa na kuambiwa kwamba yeye hataki maendeleo..Sasa hivi miaka 7 imepita na Thika super highway ni Mifoleni tuu na ajali kila siku

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y foleni if there was proper data collection and design??

Nunc dimittis said:

Uganda is slow on decision to fund the sgr,what if kenya built up to malaba border and ugandans collect their containers from there??btw how many kms remains to malaba??

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Most of the cargo in Mombasa is usually destined for Kenya anyway. So whether Uganda builds or not, it will still be big business.
Also, Ugandans can also choose to collect their cargo in Nairobi.
That said, they have committed to build. I don't know how long it will take, but they will eventually.
It is only logical for them to start construction when we start our own phase 3, so the tracks can meet. Right now it is pointless for them to build.
We're still in phase 1b, so there is some distance left.

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Boss, table the document showing the max axle weight for sgr is not 25T or forever keep quiet.
And no, I have not missed any point SGR was sold as a project with both direct and indirect benefits..Table the economic analysis the same way I have tabled Thika road. And then point out from the document which indirect benefits have been achieved or are currently being developed with impetus from the SGR..
In absence of these two issues, you are simply blowing hot air

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Boss dont shout too much without analysis of what you are saying may be nonsense.
25T per axle may be correct but a wagon has 4 axles(axle is a pair of wheels joined by metal shaft) so 25Tx4 is 100tonnes per wagon...
Double stacking can carry a 2 40ft containers, just go to youtube and watch. It can carry 2 20ft and 1 40ft on top too, but cant carry 4 20ft as its tricky to secure them in the middle.
You are also basing your arguments on fake news or heresay or misunderstood figures. The 1bn per month was the money allocated by government to kick start operations in the first year. In that first year at the start it only had 1 cargo train and by mid year 4 cargo trains end year 8 cargo trains per direction. But salaries, maintainance and some capex for things to continue being setup was needed. Media took this figure and ran with it that SGR was making a loss off 1b per month and being subsidised by govt. But would you consider when you buy a car for uber, the first week you buy insurance, license fees, car service, android phone for a total of 50k means your uber is making losses of 50k a week!! what a bad bussiness!! This is the reasoning you are insisting on here...
If this year its moving 12 cargo trains, 2 passenger per direction per day and initial setting up cost is done, can it be making the same misunderstood losses?

Kifaru_07 said:

Boss dont shout too much without analysis of what you are saying may be nonsense.
25T per axle may be correct but a wagon has 4 axles(axle is a pair of wheels joined by metal shaft) so 25Tx4 is 100tonnes per wagon...
Double stacking can carry a 2 40ft containers, just go to youtube and watch. It can carry 2 20ft and 1 40ft on top too, but cant carry 4 20ft as its tricky to secure them in the middle.
You are also basing your arguments on fake news or heresay or misunderstood figures. The 1bn per month was the money allocated by government to kick start operations in the first year. In that first year at the start it only had 1 cargo train and by mid year 4 cargo trains end year 8 cargo trains per direction. But salaries, maintainance and some capex for things to continue being setup was needed. Media took this figure and ran with it that SGR was making a loss off 1b per month and being subsidised by govt. But would you consider when you buy a car for uber, the first week you buy insurance, license fees, car service, android phone for a total of 50k means your uber is making losses of 50k a week!! what a bad bussiness!! This is the reasoning you are shouting here...

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You could do better by tabling documents not engaging in bartalk.

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

You could do better by tabling documents not engaging in bartalk.

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I dont think i need a table to correct your notion that a wagon has only 1 axle and it cant carry 2 40ft containers. But ill link here a video of double stacked SGR for your enlightenment.

Kifaru_07 said:

I dont think i need a table to correct your notion that a wagon has only 1 axle and it cant carry 2 40ft containers. But ill link here a video of double stacked SGR for your enlightenment.

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I said you cannot exceed 25T per axle..Your deluded friends here are claiming that they have documents purpoting that the design limit is above 25T.
Table the evidence or forever hold your silence

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Boss, understand that the SGR capacity to load is determined by the maximum axle load which is 25T..you can stack as many containers as you want but the axle load must not exceed 25T which is equivalent to Just 1 40Ft container..
The 24 trains per day is not a figure plucked from the Air, its with calculation of time used at train passing stations..
About thika Road:
Fuel levy paid by cars using the road is Direct Revenue..Indirect revenue is the more businesses that have sprung up along the road..and the new rentals -its suddely seems like everyone wants to live/rent along thika road

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This qoute from you is what im correcting as its not factual while being the foundation of your argument.
25T per axle isn't really relevant as a full 40ft container is around 40 tonnes, 2 of them 80 tonnes but a wagon can carry 100tonnes( 4x25). So axle load isnt a limiting factor.
Success of sgr should come from better logistics overall in the country. Profit is a plus in infra projects just like KNH, thika road and public schools in marginal areas

Kifaru_07 said:

This qoute from you is what im correcting as its not factual while being the foundation of your argument.
25T per axle isn't really relevant as a full 40ft container is around 40 tonnes, 2 of them 80 tonnes but a wagon can carry 100tonnes( 4x25). So axle load isnt a limiting factor.
Success of sgr should come from better logistics overall in the country. Profit is a plus in infra projects just like KNH, thika road and public schools in marginal areas

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If you want to disapprove what I said..Do the same thing I did to disapprove your friend's blantant lie that Thika Road has no direct economic benefits..Table an economic analysis simple, for tonnage table a design document simple..
Otherwise this is bartalk which I will opt out

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

If you want to disapprove what I said..Do the same thing I did to disapprove your friend's blantant lie that Thika Road has no direct economic benefits..Table an economic analysis simple, for tonnage table a design document simple..
Otherwise this is bartalk which I will opt out

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But it doesn't have a direct economic benefit. It has no tolls. The govt isnt collecting any money on it. Unless what do you understand by direct economic benefit? Because fuel levy isnt collected at Thika road but at a petrol station anywhere in Kenya. That is not a direct benefit. Even the company doing maintainance for 1bn per year is not directly stopping drivers and collecting 1bn on the road, are they?
Indirect..lots and lots until no one doubts its usefulness these days apart from peak time congestion.

You clearly did not read the cost benefit document I aploaded which indicates direct cash flow from thika road and indirect benefits..You just want to engage in stories.It will take a very long time to liberate kenyan's from Jubilee's stalin type of propaganda

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

You clearly did not read the cost benefit document I aploaded which indicates direct cash flow from thika road and indirect benefits..You just want to engage in stories.It will take a very long time to liberate kenyan's from Jubilee's stalin type of propaganda

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Ive read the document, its says the direct cash flow is through tolling. But wenall know no tolls have been setup, so are you basing your argument on a document or on real life? Or just tell us what you have found to be the source of direct cash flow.
On the main thread question, yani mwenye alianzisha thread anawaona wakenya wa kawaida ni wale maskini hohehahe pekee yao, wakenya wanaoweza kulipa ksh1000 si mkenya wa kawaida?.