ICC judges want Ruto, Sang tried in Kenya

ICC judges want Ruto, Sang tried in Kenya



JARED NYATAYA | NATION Two of the Ocampo Six suspects William Ruto (left) and Joshua arap Sang during prayers held for them at Kipchoge Keino Stadium in Kapsabet Town.

By LILLIAN ONYANGO laonyango@ke.nationmedia.com

Posted Monday, June 3 2013 at 21:21

IN SUMMARY

• In a statement, the Court said the proposal was made following a request by the defence on January 24.

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The International Criminal Court Trial Chamber has suggested to its Presidency to hold the start of Deputy President William Ruto and former radio presenter Joshua arap Sang’s trials in Kenya or Tanzania.

In its recommendations on Monday, the Trial Chamber said “it may be desirable to hold the commencement of trial and other portions thereof, to be determined at a later stage, in Kenya or, alternatively, in Tanzania.”

In a statement, the Court said the proposal was made following a request by the defence on January 24.

Before reaching the decision, the Trial Chamber sought and obtained observations from the parties and participants, as well as other relevant authorities.

“This recommendation made by Trial Chamber V(A) is only a step in the procedure - set out in Rule 100 of the Rules of Procedures and Evidence - as the final decision on the issue will be made in due course by the judges, in plenary session,” the statement read in part.

However, the Court remained the parties that the seat of the Court is in The Hague and where the Court considers that it would be in the interests of justice, it may decide to sit in a State other than the Netherlands

Source: Nation Newspaper

Magazeti ya Kenya siku hizi yametiwa kampuni na habari zao ni potovu kimtindo. Kauli halisi ya ICC hii hapa...

10 ... The Chamber will at the relevant time re-visit the possibility of holding portions of the trial in Kenya, subject to security and logistical considerations, and taking into consideration the rights of the accused to a fair and expeditious trial as well as the victims' views and concerns.

11 ...the Chamber considers that Tanzania, which was also recommended by the parties, could also serve as an appropriate venue, although to a lesser degree. The Chamber notes in this regard that it did not receive any response from the Tanzanian authorities and it is thus unable to determine whether the authorities would be prepared to provide support if the Chamber were to sit in Tanzania.

12. In order to facilitate an expeditious further examination of the proposal to hold portions of the trial in Kenya or, alternatively, in Tanzania, the Chamber has requested the Registry to explore practical aspects of the proposal and prepare a feasibility study.

www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1599761.pdf

Ab-Titchaz said:

Magazeti ya Kenya siku hizi yametiwa kampuni na habari zao ni potovu kimtindo. Kauli halisi ya ICC hii hapa... 10 ... The Chamber will at the relevant time re-visit the possibility of holding portions of the trial in Kenya, subject to security and logistical considerations, and taking into consideration the rights of the accused to a fair and expeditious trial as well as the victims' views and concerns. 11 ...the Chamber considers that Tanzania, which was also recommended by the parties, could also serve as an appropriate venue, although to a lesser degree. The Chamber notes in this regard that it did not receive any response from the Tanzanian authorities and it is thus unable to determine whether the authorities would be prepared to provide support if the Chamber were to sit in Tanzania. 12. In order to facilitate an expeditious further examination of the proposal to hold portions of the trial in Kenya or, alternatively, in Tanzania, the Chamber has requested the Registry to explore practical aspects of the proposal and prepare a feasibility study. www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1599761.pdf

Kisha swali ninalojiuliza ni, je What is Dodoma's official position on this matter maana a formal request had been earlier...ndo maana tunasikia the Judges have requested that Tanzania be approached again on the logistics of this matter...especially on the issue of witness intimidation. Over to the Tanzanian Govt. ​

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Mkuu Ab-T, the whole stuff sounds GREEK 2 me, I thought ICC is an impregnable entity!! It never xed my mind that they could be so wobbly on certain burning issues!! Looks like they have finally decided to cut and run somersaulting like HYDRA in the process!!

Kitu kingine mkuu sioni kama mashahidi watakubali ku-testify hapa Tanzania au Kenya - maanake nasikia baadhi yao wamekwisha potea kiaina au kuuwawa!! Kusema kweli sioni kama ICC itakubali kesi hii isikilizwe barani Afrika, mimi naona jamaa wa ICC wanataka kuwachota akili Viongozi wa Africa ambao wamepania kweli kweli kuwakingia kifua wenzao. ICC ina-buy time tu sina shaka mwishowe watasema mashahidi awawezi kuwa salama wakiwa barani Africa hivyo kesi hii inapaswa kusikilizwa Ulaya.

Binafsi msimamo wa baadhi ya Viongozi wa Africa kuhusu suala hili ulinishangaza sana, yaani wanafanya hivyo kwa kuwa wengi wao nao wana traits kama za watuhumiwa; waswahili usema ukiona mwenzako akinyolewa nywele basi na wewe kichwa anza kutia maji..... A.U ilidhilisha kwamba wanalindana kweli kweli!! Kwao haki za binadamu na utawala bora vinawekwe kwenye back seat katika Priorities zao. Ntashangaa kama Tanzania itachangamkia kusikilizwa kesi hii nchini mwetu.

The ICC submission and caving in to the demands of AU should now make sense, after the OTP chest-thumping they have now to reconstruct the credibilty the African signatories once saw in them.

Second Issue the witnesses cannot come to kenya or TZ to testify sababu walikuwa wamepewa ahadi za citizenship kule Europe watakapotoa ushahidi and I do not think the TZ authorities can work in tandem with the ICC to process their applications. Same applies to the kenyan scenario.

otherwise Ab-Titchaz na mwnezngu Bukyanagandi, wengi tulidhani ICC ni ya kimataifa na hivyo ilikuwa huru katika shughuli zao. lakini hata tuligundua kuwa ICC inategema fedha kuendensha shughuli zake kutoka kwa UN. Jiulize who funds the UN halafu upate jibu kamili who funds the ICC.

TZ/Arushan Justice system is flaud and if the ICC inaweza kuwa interfered sembuse Arusha!!..

Tanzanian justice system is politicised, analysts say

Tanzania's failure to enforce anti-corruption laws in light of a recent energy scandal is a sign of a politicised justice system, analysts say.

Minister for Energy and Minerals Sospeter Muhongo, supported by a number of parliamentarians, accused the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Energy and Minerals of accepting bribes from companies vying for energy tenders.
In response, on July 28th, National Assembly Speaker Anne Makinda disbanded the 28-member energy committee on corruption allegations.
The committee allegedly colluded with William Mhando, former managing director for the Tanzania Electrical Supply Company (TANESCO). In response to the allegations, the company put Mhando on temporary leave on June 25th and officially suspended him on July 14th.
"This director contracted some parliamentarians to supply fuel to the Independent Power Tanzania Limited (IPTL) to generate 100 megawatts at the cost of 1,800 [shillings] per litre of oil," Muhongo told Sabahi.
Mhando, with the help of the parliamentarians, allegedly approved the Oryx Oil and Camel Oil bids to supply oil to IPTL on behalf of the government, even thought their rates were higher.
"We contacted BP Tanzania Limited, who accepted to supply the same fuel at the cost of 1,460 [shillings] per litre. Then we had no option other than doing away with the unjust contracts used by those who are siphoning the already dehydrated economy," Muhongo said.
Eliakimu Maswi, permanent secretary for the Ministry of Energy and Minerals, said committee members also own fake companies that supply electricity poles.
"They buy poles from Iringa [in Tanzania], transport them to Mombasa and bring them back to Dar es Salaam, claiming they have been outsourced from South Africa," he told Sabahi. "Indeed this is unfair, especially when it is done by lawmakers who are supposed to be role models."
The parliamentarians, however, deny any wrongdoing.
A number of them accused Muhongo and Maswi of making the accusations for their own political gain, and asked for an investigation to be conducted.
Parliamentarian Munde Tambwe, one of the politicians alleged to be involved in the scandal, told Sabahi that the accusations are false and driven by personal goals, not in service to the nation. "I am not trading with TANESCO," she said.
Tambwe said she is waiting for the opportunity to contest the decision to disband their committee, calling it a dangerous precedent for the future of Tanzanian politics if it remains unchallenged.
Above the law

The laws governing Tanzania have been politicised to the extent that justice is dispensed at the will of those in power, says Azaveli Lwaitama, a political science lecturer at the University of Dar es Salaam.
"I can start seeing double standards in our law enforcement machinery," Lwaitama told Sabahi. "[Decision makers are] now choosing whom to deal with and whom not to."
"Prime Minister Edward Lowassa was forced to resign for non-adherence to the Procurement Act of 2004 on the Richmond scandal," she said, referring to an event in 2008 in which a parliamentary committee accused members of the government of fraudulently issuing an energy contract.
"Now we have a minister and his permanent secretary accused of the same deviation, yet they are protected and the parliamentary committee is disbanded instead," she said.
Emmanuel Makene, a managing partner in Kings Law Chamber, said Tanzania's constitution and the 2007 Prevention and Combating of Corruption Act criminalise corruption, but politics deter law enforcement from properly doing its job.
He said parliamentarians do not have immunity for criminal matters like corruption, hence disbanding the parliamentary committee is not enough.
Parliamentarians suspected of corruption should be investigated and formally charged by the Prevention and Combating Corruption Bureau if there is just cause, he said.
"No one is above the law. Charging parliamentarians would have assured the public that all citizens are equal before the law, but this is not happening in Tanzania," Makene told Sabahi.

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makala imekwisha tambua weaknesses of the TZ justice system...

nice day!!..

Looks like the ICC has not actually accepted the cases be shifted to Africa. It is only an option they are still exploring.

Bukyanagandi said:

Mkuu Ab-T, the whole stuff sounds GREEK 2 me, I thought ICC is an impregnable entity!! It never xed my mind that they could be so wobbly on certain burning issues!! Looks like they have finally decided to cut and run somersaulting like HYDRA in the process!!

Kitu kingine mkuu sioni kama mashahidi watakubali ku-testify hapa Tanzania au Kenya - maanake nasikia baadhi yao wamekwisha potea kiaina au kuuwawa!! Kusema kweli sioni kama ICC itakubali kesi hii isikilizwe barani Afrika, mimi naona jamaa wa ICC wanataka kuwachota akili Viongozi wa Africa ambao wamepania kweli kweli kuwakingia kifua wenzao. ICC ina-buy time tu sina shaka mwishowe watasema mashahidi awawezi kuwa salama wakiwa barani Africa hivyo kesi hii inapaswa kusikilizwa Ulaya.

Binafsi msimamo wa baadhi ya Viongozi wa Africa kuhusu suala hili ulinishangaza sana, yaani wanafanya hivyo kwa kuwa wengi wao nao wana traits kama za watuhumiwa; waswahili usema ukiona mwenzako akinyolewa nywele basi na wewe kichwa anza kutia maji..... A.U ilidhilisha kwamba wanalindana kweli kweli!! Kwao haki za binadamu na utawala bora vinawekwe kwenye back seat katika Priorities zao. Ntashangaa kama Tanzania itachangamkia kusikilizwa kesi hii nchini mwetu.

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Mkuu,

sababu ilionifanya niweke link kutoka mtandao wa ICC ni ilmradi ujisomee mwenyewe walichosema.
Nowhere in their statement have they said hii habari inayosambazwa na magazeti ya Kenya. It is
that cut and dry.

This is the key statement:

10 ... The Chamber will at the relevant time re-visit the possibility of holding portions of the trial in Kenya, subject to security and logistical considerations, and taking into consideration the rights of the accused to a fair and expeditious trial as well as the victims' views and concerns.

Ntashangaa kama Tanzania itachangamkia kusikilizwa kesi hii nchini mwetu.

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I like where this debate is heading to. I like the fact that we are slowly pre-empting the possibility of the OTP utilizing the TZ judicial process when the ICC considers to transfer the cases to Arusha. So logistical concerns means that they will create their own court Oh... thanks nimeshaelewa sasa. The TZ authorities are yet to agree to the idea!.

ICC susceptibility has been exposed in the few weeks that have passed. They were rigid at first about starting the case in the hague but the final destination for the ICC is arusha and will not hold parts of the cases in Kenya due to its Judicial system..

Kabaridi said:

The ICC submission and caving in to the demands of AU should now make sense, after the OTP chest-thumping they have now to reconstruct the credibilty the African signatories once saw in them. Second Issue the witnesses cannot come to kenya or TZ to testify sababu walikuwa wamepewa ahadi za citizenship kule Europe watakapotoa ushahidi and I do not think the TZ authorities can work in tandem with the ICC to process their applications. Same applies to the kenyan scenario. otherwise Ab-Titchaz na mwnezngu Bukyanagandi, wengi tulidhani ICC ni ya kimataifa na hivyo ilikuwa huru katika shughuli zao. lakini hata tuligundua kuwa ICC inategema fedha kuendensha shughuli zake kutoka kwa UN. Jiulize who funds the UN halafu upate jibu kamili who funds the ICC. TZ/Arushan Justice system is flaud and if the ICC inaweza kuwa interfered sembuse Arusha!!.. makala imekwisha tambua weaknesses of the TZ justice system... nice day!!..

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Habari za siku nyingi mkuu Kabaridi, kwanza kuna vitu viwili ambavyo vimenishtua kidogo:

La kwanza ni hili la kusema kwamba mashahidi watakao toa ushahidi dhidi ya Uhuru na RUTO watapewa Uraia wa Ulaya au Merikani - mkuu hebu tufafanulia hapa-hivi Wazungu hawa wanatanufahika na kitu gani katika kusikiliza kesi hii ya Kimataifa, nimejaribu kukuna kichwa changu nikakosa jibu; hivi kuna dhambi kweli kutaka kuwatetea wanyonge ambao waliteseka na kutendewa mambo yanayo kihuka haki za binadamu kutokana na uroho wa madaraka wa Viongozi wao?

Je? Viongozi walio toa amri ya kutekeleza mambo ya watu kuuwana, kujeruhi mpaka kufikia hatua ya kulitia aibu bara lote la Africa unataka kusema na hao wahachwe huru bila ya kufikishwa kizimbani na kijibu tuhuma zinazo wakabili? Kwa nini tusiachie mahaka ya the Hague kuendesha kesi hii, kama watuhumiwa wataonekana hawana hatia si watahachiwa tu kwani tatizo liko WAPI! Kwa nini wanaonekana kuhaha na kunajihami masaa yote - kuna nini?

Suala hili likiachiwa hivi hivi no one will be safe barani Africa, watawala wa kiimra watatumaliza maana watajua hakuna wa kuwafanya lolote na infact wengine watabadiri katiba na kuwa Watawala mpaka kufa kwao, na kurithisha watoto wao, wake zao na wajomba vyeo/Urais - in short Ufalme utarudi kupitia backdoor - hii ikihachiwa iote mizizi itakuwa hatari kubwa barani Africa ndugu Kabaridi.

Jambo la pili ninalo taka kuzungumzia ni hili la Makama ya the Hague kuhamia nchini Tanzania kwa muda kama kuna ulazima wa kufanya hivyo, nimeona umejaribu kuijia juu Tanzanani kuhusu sifa zake kimahakama, katika hilo 'am sorry kukufahamisha kwamba nafikili umeteleza kidogo ndugu Kabaridi. Mkuu Kabaridi nataka nikukumbushe kwamba hapa tunzungumzia mahaka ya kimataifa ya the Hague ambayo ina Majaji wake walio teuliwa na UN kama sikosei, na hao wanatoka Mataifa mbali mbali, Tanzania ahusiki chochote na utehuzi wa Majaji hao na wala hakuna Mtanzania hata mmoja katika jopo zima la Majaji wa Kimataifa waliopo the Hague if my memories serves me right.

Mkuu Kabaridi nikuhulize swali, hivi the Hague ikihamua kubadiri Venue ya kusikiliza kesi na kuhamuru Majaji wa the Hague waje hapa Tanzania kusikiliza kesi hiyo, wewe unafikili ni kitu gani kitabadirika katika mwenendo mzima wa kusikilizwa KESI - jibu unalo. Mahakama itabaki ni ya Kimataifa kitakacho badirika pale ni venue TU au site inaposikilizwa kesi, hivyo mkuu Kabaridi si sahihi kusema ikihamishiwa Tanzania basi Majaji wa TANZANIA ndio watahusika kusikiliza kesi hiyo - hii si kweli hata kidogo!! Sijuhi kwa nini umesema hilo wakati ukijuwa wazi wazi kwamba unalo lisema alina ukweli wowote!!

Tanzania inaweza kuwa na matatizo yake katika sekta hii, lakini ndugu Kabaridi unataka kuwaeleza wasomaji kwamba Mahakama za Kenya ziko immune katika vices hizo, Juzi juzi hapa ndugu Raila alionja shubiri za Mahakama zenu, tulimuona akilalamikia mizengwe ya baadhi ya Majaji wenu sio Mahakimu wakazi narudia alizungumzia Jopo la Majaji walio kuwa wanasikiliza kesi yake - najua hapo Kabaridi utamsema sana Ndugu Raila kwamba ni unguided missile asiye kubari kushindwa kwa hiyo hakufanya home work yake sawasawa ndio maana robot za komputa zulikuwa zinachezea database kwa ku-maintain gap ile ile regardless ya matokeo yalivyo kuwa yanaletwa kutoka vituoni na kura zinazo haribika zinakuwa astronomical high ili ku-maintain equilibrium - a very clever ploy!

Narudia kusema mahaka za Kenya haziwezi kuzicheka za Tanzania, Upande wa Tanzania at least kuna Majaji wengi ambao wako truely independent hawamuogopi hata Rais ni hii tumekwisha ishudia nchini mwetu mara nyingi TU. Nimalizie kwa kusema Raia na watu wa nje ya Taifa lenu tuliona jinsi kesi ya Uchaguzi ilivyo endeshwa hapo Nairobi, hata kama Raia/Wageni hawasemi lakini si wajinga.

Goodday mkuu Kabaridi.

Habari za siku nyingi mkuu Kabaridi, kwanza kuna vitu viwili ambavyo vimenishtua kidogo:

La kwanza ni hili la kusema kwamba mashahidi watakao toa ushahidi dhidi ya Uhuru na RUTO watapewa Uraia wa Ulaya au Merikani - mkuu hebu tufafanulia hapa-hivi Wazungu hawa wanatanufahika na kitu gani katika kusikiliza kesi hii ya Kimataifa, nimejaribu kukuna kichwa changu nikakosa jibu; hivi kuna dhambi kweli kutaka kuwatetea wanyonge ambao waliteseka na kutendewa mambo yanayo kihuka haki za binadamu kutokana na uroho wa madaraka wa Viongozi wao?

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Mkuu Bukyanagandi heshima mbele;

kukujibu swali lako, kwanza, hakuna dhambi kutafuta na kuwapatia waathiriwa wa ghasia haki, ila haki inatakiwa kuonekana kuwafaidi walioathiriwa. ukweli ni kwamba ikiwa jambo hili la ICC ingejadiliwa nje ya taasisi ya bunge la kenya, kwa sasa waathiriwa wangekuwa washapata msaada. lakini wabunge walikologa jambo hili kwa siasa na ndio kuzidisha jambo hili kuonekana ya kisiasa na sio ya kisheria. (if you know what I mean, if the ICC conundrum was settled outside parliament mengi mpaka haki ingekuwa imetendeka kwa waathiriwa. hata wale walio kambini wakati huu hawana imani na ICC. uchungu upo dhisi ya washtakiwa lakini imewachukua mahakama ya ICC zaidi ya miaka tatu kuhunda mashtaka na washtakiwa. mbona shughuli hii imefanana na kusimama pamoja na timing ya uchaguzi wa mwaka 2013?. Tangia mnamo 2010 na miaka za awali ocampo alikuwa ashatengeneza mashtaka na mashahidi wa kutosha. lakini ukweli ni azima ya ICC mwanzoni ilikuwa kuwapukuta (uhuru na ruto) kutoka siasani na kwenye kinyanganyiro ili mtu wao apate uongozi. Utatarajia waathiriwa wa ghasia watendewe haki kutoka ICC wakati inahusisha dukuduku za siasa kwenye kesi zake. la msingi ICC walitaka Mh Raila apate kiti kwanza kabla ya kushughulikia waathiriwa.

Umetazama raila mwenyewe hivi maajuzi amekuwa akijihusisha sana na matamshi yanaolenga kuitetea shughuli ya ICC barani. Na mpaka akaahidi wakenya kwamba atarejesha Kesi hizo kenya. TUNASUBIRI MPAKA WA SASA..Mpaka wakati huu swala la ICC limbaki shughuli ya Kisiasa. lakini huyu bwana ni mnafiki. Hivi ICC wakati mambo yamekulia kwao mpaka akaendelea mwenyewe kusema viongozi wa africa walitaka 'vikosi' vingine zaidi ya taasisi tunavyo mahakama..nk.. kushughulikia na kuwatetea wanyonge. ambao una.. ukweli ndani yake ila asisahau viongozi barani walikubaliana kwa kauli moja kuleta ICC barani..lakini naye kwa kauli yake mwenyewe anazidi kucheza unafiki na tasisi hiyo...To bring or not to bring the cases home! To bring to arusha or to leave the cases to go on at the hague..sababu uchaguzi wa machi 2013 umekulia kwake, sasa ana kauli kesi ziendelee kule hague. maana anajua taasisi hii inahendeshwa na wanasiasa kutoka marekani. kibinafsi anazima au kuiendeleza. licha ya unafiki wa kidiplomasia, mataifa yanaopinga serikali ya uhuru wanaleta mauaji mashariki ya kati....

Je? Viongozi walio toa amri ya kutekeleza mambo ya watu kuuwana, kujeruhi mpaka kufikia hatua ya kulitia aibu bara lote la Africa unataka kusema na hao wahachwe huru bila ya kufikishwa kizimbani na kijibu tuhuma zinazo wakabili? Kwa nini tusiachie mahaka ya the Hague kuendesha kesi hii, kama watuhumiwa wataonekana hawana hatia si watahachiwa tu kwani tatizo liko WAPI! Kwa nini wanaonekana kuhaha na kunajihami masaa yote - kuna nini?

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Ikiwa kenya imeihahibisha bara kwa tukio la 2007, basi mwaka wa 94 rwanda ikaidhulumu bara hadi kaburini. Rwanda tukumbuke haukuwa msitu ulikuwa ni taifa ambalo ilikuwa na rais. unafaa useme wanasiasa sio taifa maana hata rais wa rwanda alipouwawa ndipo mauaji yakaanza rwanda. Waliopewa Hizi si shughuli za taifa na wananchi bali ni shughuli za kisiasa. kupuuza janga hii inalingana kama taifa ina taasisi za kuheshimika, za kulinda haki zote za wananchi.

Suala hili likiachiwa hivi hivi no one will be safe barani Africa, watawala wa kiimra watatumaliza maana watajua hakuna wa kuwafanya lolote na infact wengine watabadiri katiba na kuwa Watawala mpaka kufa kwao, na kurithisha watoto wao, wake zao na wajomba vyeo/Urais - in short Ufalme utarudi kupitia backdoor - hii ikihachiwa iote mizizi itakuwa hatari kubwa barani Africa ndugu Kabaridi.

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Hili nalo pengine Mungu kurudi, licha ya kuwa na ICC bado udikteta unaendelea africa kwa hio ICC sio suluhisho ya changamoto za uongozi wa kiimra

Jambo la pili ninalo taka kuzungumzia ni hili la Makama ya the Hague kuhamia nchini Tanzania kwa muda kama kuna ulazima wa kufanya hivyo, nimeona umejaribu kuijia juu Tanzanani kuhusu sifa zake kimahakama, katika hilo 'am sorry kukufahamisha kwamba nafikili umeteleza kidogo ndugu Kabaridi. Mkuu Kabaridi nataka nikukumbushe kwamba hapa tunzungumzia mahaka ya kimataifa ya the Hague ambayo ina Majaji wake walio teuliwa na UN kama sikosei, na hao wanatoka Mataifa mbali mbali, Tanzania ahusiki chochote na utehuzi wa Majaji hao na wala hakuna Mtanzania hata mmoja katika jopo zima la Majaji wa Kimataifa waliopo the Hague if my memories serves me right.

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Mkuu hapa nakubali utelezi bali sioni litakalobadilika hata ingawa ICC itatuma majaji hapa kenya. hata watakapofungua mahakama tanzania hakuna litakalobadilika; la msingi ICC imeona Tz wapo usingizini; mkoloni zamani kakuandikia katiba halafu kazi ya Mtanzania kuitafsiri kwa kiswahili halafu watu waringe kwamba wapo na katiba imara. hebu tueleze, ni lini katiba ya Tz kugeuzwa au kuandikwa upya kifikia viwango vya sasa (si maanishi ammendments ya vipenge kadha wa kadha kwenye katiba)?!!!

Mkuu Kabaridi nikuhulize swali, hivi the Hague ikihamua kubadiri Venue ya kusikiliza kesi na kuhamuru Majaji wa the Hague waje hapa Tanzania kusikiliza kesi hiyo, wewe unafikili ni kitu gani kitabadirika katika mwenendo mzima wa kusikilizwa KESI - jibu unalo. Mahakama itabaki ni ya Kimataifa kitakacho badirika pale ni venue TU au site inaposikilizwa kesi, hivyo mkuu Kabaridi si sahihi kusema ikihamishiwa Tanzania basi Majaji wa TANZANIA ndio watahusika kusikiliza kesi hiyo - hii si kweli hata kidogo!! Sijuhi kwa nini umesema hilo wakati ukijuwa wazi wazi kwamba unalo lisema alina ukweli wowote!!

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Is Tanzania a member of the rome statutes?? tuanzie hapo..licha ya kenya kuwa signatories.................................................
..............

Tanzania inaweza kuwa na matatizo yake katika sekta hii, lakini ndugu Kabaridi unataka kuwaeleza wasomaji kwamba Mahakama za Kenya ziko immune katika vices hizo, Juzi juzi hapa ndugu Raila alionja shubiri za Mahakama zenu, tulimuona akilalamikia mizengwe ya baadhi ya Majaji wenu sio Mahakimu wakazi narudia alizungumzia Jopo la Majaji walio kuwa wanasikiliza kesi yake - najua hapo Kabaridi utamsema sana Ndugu Raila kwamba ni unguided missile asiye kubari kushindwa kwa hiyo hakufanya home work yake sawasawa ndio maana robot za komputa zulikuwa zinachezea database kwa ku-maintain gap ile ile regardless ya matokeo yalivyo kuwa yanaletwa kutoka vituoni na kura zinazo haribika zinakuwa astronomical high ili ku-maintain equilibrium - a very clever ploy!

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mahakama za kenya zimerekebishwa kufikia kiwango ya kimataifa, lakini kupitia vyombo vya dola a clever ploy by raila to discredit our court instituions refomed according to the (due process) in compliance to the new constituition. tatizo ni kuwa anapigana vita akitumia wabunge amabo wamechaguliwa na wakenya wakitumia taasisi zetu wakenya. Hivi mutunga had to do some soul searching kabla ya kufikia uamuzi. katiba ya kenya does not become discreditied overnight sababu mwanasiasa hapendezwi. kazi ya kendesha serikali haifanywi kwa jinsi hii..nobody blames this fella kwa sababu hajakuwa serikalini kutoa uongozi ila ile ya nusu-mkate akiwaibia wakenya na kuwapambia familia na mandugu zake...

Narudia kusema mahaka za Kenya haziwezi kuzicheka za Tanzania, Upande wa Tanzania at least kuna Majaji wengi ambao wako truely independent hawamuogopi hata Rais ni hii tumekwisha ishudia nchini mwetu mara nyingi TU. Nimalizie kwa kusema Raia na watu wa nje ya Taifa lenu tuliona jinsi kesi ya Uchaguzi ilivyo endeshwa hapo Nairobi, hata kama

Raia/Wageni hawasemi lakini si wajinga.

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kulingana na makala niliyoweka hapo juu, ulichosema does not hold water mkuu. bado I and contitue to insist vyombo vya Tanzania haviko uhuru kufunua shughuli za siasa kwenye mahakama za TZ. Ombeni nanyi mpate mnafiki atakayelilia marekebisho/reforms kwa asiyejali tz bali anayetaka kuuza tanzani ipokonywe haki yake...

Kabaridi said:

Mkuu Bukyanagandi heshima mbele; kukujibu swali lako, kwanza, hakuna dhambi kutafuta na kuwapatia waathiriwa wa ghasia haki, ila haki inatakiwa kuonekana kuwafaidi walioathiriwa. ukweli ni kwamba ikiwa jambo hili la ICC ingejadiliwa nje ya taasisi ya bunge la kenya, kwa sasa waathiriwa wangekuwa washapata msaada. lakini wabunge walikologa jambo hili kwa siasa na ndio kuzidisha jambo hili kuonekana ya kisiasa na sio ya kisheria. (if you know what I mean, if the ICC conundrum was settled outside parliament mengi mpaka haki ingekuwa imetendeka kwa waathiriwa. hata wale walio kambini wakati huu hawana imani na ICC. uchungu upo dhisi ya washtakiwa lakini imewachukua mahakama ya ICC zaidi ya miaka tatu kuhunda mashtaka na washtakiwa. mbona shughuli hii imefanana na kusimama pamoja na timing ya uchaguzi wa mwaka 2013?. Tangia mnamo 2010 na miaka za awali ocampo alikuwa ashatengeneza mashtaka na mashahidi wa kutosha. lakini ukweli ni azima ya ICC mwanzoni ilikuwa kuwapukuta (uhuru na ruto) kutoka siasani na kwenye kinyanganyiro ili mtu wao apate uongozi. Utatarajia waathiriwa wa ghasia watendewe haki kutoka ICC wakati inahusisha dukuduku za siasa kwenye kesi zake. la msingi ICC walitaka Mh Raila apate kiti kwanza kabla ya kushughulikia waathiriwa. . . . Ikiwa kenya imeihahibisha bara kwa tukio la 2007, basi mwaka wa 94 rwanda ikaidhulumu bara hadi kaburini. Rwanda tukumbuke haukuwa msitu ulikuwa ni taifa ambalo ilikuwa na rais. unafaa useme wanasiasa sio taifa maana hata rais wa rwanda alipouwawa ndipo mauaji yakaanza rwanda. Waliopewa Hizi si shughuli za taifa na wananchi bali ni shughuli za kisiasa. kupuuza janga hii inalingana kama taifa ina taasisi za kuheshimika, za kulinda haki zote za wananchi. . . . Hili nalo pengine Mungu kurudi, licha ya kuwa na ICC bado udikteta unaendelea africa kwa hio ICC sio suluhisho ya changamoto za uongozi wa kiimra Mkuu hapa nakubali utelezi bali sioni litakalobadilika hata ingawa ICC itatuma majaji hapa kenya. hata watakapofungua mahakama tanzania hakuna litakalobadilika; la msingi ICC imeona Tz wapo usingizini; mkoloni zamani kakuandikia katiba halafu kazi ya Mtanzania kuitafsiri kwa kiswahili halafu watu waringe kwamba wapo na katiba imara. hebu tueleze, ni lini katiba ya Tz kugeuzwa au kuandikwa upya kifikia viwango vya sasa (si maanishi ammendments ya vipenge kadha wa kadha kwenye katiba)?!!! Is Tanzania a member of the rome statutes?? tuanzie hapo..licha ya kenya kuwa signatories................................................. .............. . . kulingana na makala niliyoweka hapo juu, ulichosema does not hold water mkuu. bado I and contitue to insist vyombo vya Tanzania haviko uhuru kufunua shughuli za siasa kwenye mahakama za TZ. Ombeni nanyi mpate mnafiki atakayelilia marekebisho/reforms kwa asiyejali tz bali anayetaka kuuza tanzani ipokonywe haki yake...

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Mkuu umejieleza vizuri sana nakupa pongezi za dhati, tuendelee kuwa tuna badirishana mawazo mara kwa mara; kuna kitu umenikumbusha kuhusu katiba yetu kwa mfano, mkuu Kabaridi tuko mbioni kurekebisha Katiba yetu actually kuna vipengele vilivyo hazimwa/copied kutoka katika katiba yenu, tunashukuru kwa hilo; I wish wange copy clauses nyingi kutoka kwenye katiba yenu zenye manufaa kwa ustawi wa Taifa letu. Labda nimalizie kwa kukili kwamba huko mahiri kwenye nyanja za kutetea TAIFA lako - keep it up mkuu Kabaridi.

Ab-Titchaz said:

Mkuu, sababu ilionifanya niweke link kutoka mtandao wa ICC ni ilmradi ujisomee mwenyewe walichosema. Nowhere in their statement have they said hii habari inayosambazwa na magazeti ya Kenya. It is that cut and dry. This is the key statement: 10 ... The Chamber will at the relevant time re-visit the possibility of holding portions of the trial in Kenya, subject to security and logistical considerations, and taking into consideration the rights of the accused to a fair and expeditious trial as well as the victims' views and concerns.

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Heshima yako Mkuu, Mbona ulieleweka vizuri tu tangu mwanzo, actually comments zangu zilikuwa zinalenga kukosoa media za majirani zetu ambazo zilikuwa zina toa taarifa ambazo hazikuwa sahihi na wakati mwingine waliongeza chumvi mno!

Bukyanagandi said:

Mkuu umejieleza vizuri sana nakupa pongezi za dhati, tuendelee kuwa tuna badirishana mawazo mara kwa mara; kuna kitu umenikumbusha kuhusu katiba yetu kwa mfano, mkuu Kabaridi tuko mbioni kurekebisha Katiba yetu actually kuna vipengele vilivyo hazimwa/copied kutoka katika katiba yenu, tunashukuru kwa hilo; I wish wange copy clauses nyingi kutoka kwenye katiba yenu zenye manufaa kwa ustawi wa Taifa letu. Labda nimalizie kwa kukili kwamba huko mahiri kwenye nyanja za kutetea TAIFA lako - keep it up mkuu Kabaridi.

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Bukyanagandi, tutajua vipi kama waafrika tuna uhuru wa kujitawala isipokuwa kushughulika kubadilisha vitu muhimu kama katiba?