Je upo uhalisia wa mawazo haya ya Nyerere ktk Tanzania yetu?

[philosophy]

A university is a place where young men are trained to think critically and independent (Nyerere 1922-1999). Kwamba, chuo kikuu ni mahali ambapo vijana hufunzwa jinsi ya kufikiri na kujitegemea. Hufikiri na kuja na fikara huru za kujitegemea mwenyewe na ndivyo ugunduzi hupatikana, na maendeleo kuwepo katika jamii.

Swali: Je, sisi vijana ambao tunajitamba kuwa wahitimu wa vyuo vikuu, ni kweli tumefunzwa kuibuka na fikara binafsi? Ni kweli, vyuo vyetu hapa nchini ni mahali pa kuwafunza vijana kufikiri wenyewe na kuja na mawazo mbadala binafsi?

TUSAIDIANE WADAU.

 

[a4afrika]

A university is a place where young men are trained to think critically and independent (Nyerere 1922-1999). Kwamba, chuo kikuu ni mahali ambapo vijana hufunzwa jinsi ya kufikiri na kujitegemea. Hufikiri na kuja na fikara huru za kujitegemea mwenyewe na ndivyo ugunduzi hupatikana, na maendeleo kuwepo katika jamii.
Swali: je, sisi vijana ambao tunajitamba kuwa wahitimu wa vyuo vikuu, ni kweli tumefunzwa kuibuka na fikara binafsi? Ni kweli, vyuo vyetu hapa nchini ni mahali pa kuwafunza vijana kufikiri wenyewe na kuja na mawazo mbadala binafsi?
TUSAIDIANE WADAU.

Yap! Ndivyo ILIVYOPASWA KUWA. Lakini katika taifa kama hili, ambalo halina hata dira, ni kipi utataraji kisimame katika usahihi wake? HAKUNA! Si elimu, afya wala miundombinu! Si viwanda, migodi wala kilimo. Si utamaduni, siasa wala uchumi. HAKUNA KITAKACHOSIMAMA KATIKA USAHIHI WAKE! Hakuna imani na msingi wa kuhakikisha hilo. Tunakwenda tu kama mbuzi.

Critical and Independent learning comes from Critical and Independent Education System, nayo ni zao la Mazingira na Nyakati za eneo husika. Tutarajie nini sasa kwa elimu yetu hii, ambayo asilimia kubwa ya elements zake ni za ku-copy na ku-paste kutoka nje, ambako si Mazingira wala Nyakati zinazofanana na zetu?
MAENDELEO NI HESABU, TENA KALI. Si mchezo wa bahati nasibu.

Anaita sasa!

 

[Mzuvendi]

A university is a place where young men are trained to think critically and independent (Nyerere 1922-1999). Kwamba, chuo kikuu ni mahali ambapo vijana hufunzwa jinsi ya kufikiri na kujitegemea. Hufikiri na kuja na fikara huru za kujitegemea mwenyewe na ndivyo ugunduzi hupatikana, na maendeleo kuwepo katika jamii.
Swali: je, sisi vijana ambao tunajitamba kuwa wahitimu wa vyuo vikuu, ni kweli tumefunzwa kuibuka na fikara binafsi? Ni kweli, vyuo vyetu hapa nchini ni mahali pa kuwafunza vijana kufikiri wenyewe na kuja na mawazo mbadala binafsi?
TUSAIDIANE WADAU.

The problem is he didn't practice the tenet. When you let students think independently and critical, one of things they will do is to challenge the inner core of your thoughts. Nyerere didn't stand opposition or intellectual challenge.

 

[philosophy]

Mr. Mzuvendi! I dare not to antagonize your opinions, but, bearing this in mind, if it could be very true for what you claim, do you think Nyerere as a scholar and philosopher could come up with such claim? that [A university is a place where young men are trained to think critically and independent]. On the other side, though he would not stand challenges, and practice it, that doesn't mean his idea has no relevance for us. Remember, Carl Marx came up with the notion of materialism as his philosophy, which contends socialism as best social way of living but he himself couldn't practice it and his followers put it into practice and make its relevance.

 

[a4afrika]

"Utii bila Uhuru ni Utumwa, lakini Uhuru nao bila Nidhamu ni Uwendawazimu" 'Uhuru gani? Uhuru wa kuvuruga nchi? Raisi anaapa kulinda nchi bwana sio kuvuruga nchi...'

The problem is he didn't practice the tenet. When you let students think independently and critical, one of things they will do is to challenge the inner core of your thoughts. Nyerere didn't stand opposition or intellectual challenge.

Kuna tofauti sana ya Uhuru wa kuongea na Uhuru wa Kuropoka, walichotaka watu ni Uhuru wa kuropoka. Kuongea kuna kanuni zake, muktadha, mahusiano, muda, n.k... mropokaji hana muda wa kuzingatia hayo, kwa hoja dhaifu eti 'uhuru/haki"
Hakuna Haki bila Wajibu, Wajibu wako Kwanza kwa jamii yako, ndio haki yako ya msingi.
Anayekurushia mshale usiku halengi kuboresha uwezo wako wa kukwepa mishale, ila kukuua!
Anaita sasa!

 

[Mzuvendi]

Mr. Mzuvendi! I dare not to antagonize your opinions, but, bearing this in mind, if it could be very true for what you claim, do you think Nyerere as a scholar and philosopher could come up with such claim? that [A university is a place where young men are trained to think critically and independent]. On the other side, though he would not stand challenges, and practice it, that doesn't mean his idea has no relevance for us. Remember, Carl Marx came up with the notion of materialism as his philosophy, which contends socialism as best social way of living but he himself couldn't practice it and his followers put it into practice and make its relevance.

Nyerere wasn't a specialist in any particular branch of study so it is very hard to call him a scholar. And with regard to him being a philosopher, I believe heads of state shouldn't deserve that honor. For, philosophy don't unfold from position of power. For example, he shoved down our throats whatever believe to be right. We didn't have the right to decent, reject or discuss. Socrates, Plato, Jesus, Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Fredrick Angels didn't have that luxury.

Concerning Nyerere's claim. there's nothing new there because the role of any University or for that matter any learning institution is just that. If you have studied the movement of liberal education, you will find out that he was just reiterating what liberal thinkers of 19th and 20th had already proposed. Those who have attended Liberal Arts Colleges in the USA can attest that.

 

[Mzuvendi]

"Utii bila Uhuru ni Utumwa, lakini Uhuru nao bila Nidhamu ni Uwendawazimu" 'Uhuru gani? Uhuru wa kuvuruga nchi? Raisi anaapa kulinda nchi bwana sio kuvuruga nchi...'
Kuna tofauti sana ya Uhuru wa kuongea na Uhuru wa Kuropoka, walichotaka watu ni Uhuru wa kuropoka. Kuongea kuna kanuni zake, muktadha, mahusiano, muda, n.k... mropokaji hana muda wa kuzingatia hayo, kwa hoja dhaifu eti 'uhuru/haki"
Hakuna Haki bila Wajibu, Wajibu wako Kwanza kwa jamii yako, ndio haki yako ya msingi.
Anayekurushia mshale usiku halengi kuboresha uwezo wako wa kukwepa mishale, ila kukuua!
Anaita sasa!

First, like in insurance, liberalism has its own social hazard. There will be few who want to abuse it, but that the price that country has to pay. He wasn't ready to pay the price.

Second, he said those words in early 60s when the country was still in independence euphoria. However, as the days went on, he came to find out that liberalism and communism didn't match.

 

[philosophy]

Mr. Mzuvendi I strongly argue against you especially in case of eliminating Nyerere in the castle of scholars. Absolute, he's a great scholar among ever. On top of that, Nyerere is one of greatest African prominent philosophers his ideas lies on the trend of nationalistic-ideological philosophy [ Odera Oruka 1987, identified them as quoted by Oswell Hapanyegwi-Chemhuru, in " Thought and Practice: A Journal of Philosophical Association Of Kenya (PAK), New Series, Vol.5 No.2, Dec 2013, PP.39-55. Also read, D.A. Masolo (1994) on his book "African Philosophy in search for Identity]
Though Nyerere was a follower of Karl Marx philosophy, this doesn't guarantee us to eliminate him as not a scholar. He saw in the reality of the life for him and followed the as one of Marx's successors who put his ideas in practice.
Furthermore, what for us to concentrate on is to look and search the reality of Nyerere's claim and not attacking or accusing of him as not a scholar or philosopher. To be not a scholar does not mean what you say have nothing truth in it.

 

[Nguruvi3]

The problem is he didn't practice the tenet. When you let students think independently and critical, one of things they will do is to challenge the inner core of your thoughts. Nyerere didn't stand opposition or intellectual challenge.

Nadhani tofauti ya elimu wakati wake na sasa inaeleza vema

Labda wengi hawakumwelewa, Nyerere alikubali challenge, lakini constructive
Pili, alikuwa na maono makali kiasi kwamba waliotaka ku-challenge walijiuliza sana! si ndani hata nje ya nchi.

 

[Mzuvendi]

Nadhani tofauti ya elimu wakati wake na sasa inaeleza vema

Labda wengi hawakumwelewa, Nyerere alikubali challenge, lakini constructive
Pili, alikuwa na maono makali kiasi kwamba waliotaka ku-challenge walijiuliza sana! si ndani hata nje ya nchi.

Actually Nyerere didn't understand human nature. The entire creed of his politics was to make people work together, eat together and share poverty. In essence he was in the process of creating a new religion (Ujamaa ni imani). How do you challenge this?

 

[Mzuvendi]

Mr. Mzuvendi I strongly argue against you especially in case of eliminating Nyerere in the castle of scholars. Absolute, he's a great scholar among ever. On top of that, Nyerere is one of greatest African prominent philosophers his ideas lies on the trend of nationalistic-ideological philosophy [ Odera Oruka 1987, identified them as quoted by Oswell Hapanyegwi-Chemhuru, in " Thought and Practice: A Journal of Philosophical Association Of Kenya (PAK), New Series, Vol.5 No.2, Dec 2013, PP.39-55. Also read, D.A. Masolo (1994) on his book "African Philosophy in search for Identity]
Though Nyerere was a follower of Karl Marx philosophy, this doesn't guarantee us to eliminate him as not a scholar. He saw in the reality of the life for him and followed the as one of Marx's successors who put his ideas in practice.
Furthermore, what for us to concentrate on is to look and search the reality of Nyerere's claim and not attacking or accusing of him as not a scholar or philosopher. To be not a scholar does not mean what you say have nothing truth in it.

You are entitled to your opinion and I don't mind if you believe that Nyerere was a saint, a scholar, a philosopher, a military general, the economist, the dear leaders etc. However, when you decide to bring your opinion to the public forum, you should back up with facts to convince others that there's a truth to what you believe.

To me Nyerere was an honest man, an intellectual, intelligent, a liberator etc. Even though I don't share his politics, I think he tried to help his people and didn't enrich himself. I think that enough.

Now with regard to him being a philosopher, the term is very archaic and doesn't have any impact in modern days. If I ask you what philosophers do in modern days? Probably you won't know. If you are in college and you major philosophy, probably you have failed in other areas of studies and philosophy is you only chance.

If Nyerere was the follower of Karl Marx, he would have known that Ujamaa has no place in any African society. The reason Tanzania is struggling like a failed science project of the primary school student is our effort use command economy when there was no financial resources and brain power to execute the un-executable.

 

[philosophy]

that's the problem of not knowing something in its essence, and that's why i believe that the strong weapons westerners used to colonize us is to destroy our mode of thinking and believing which contained our philosophy. one of friends of mine once told me that, 'we're colonized just because whites denied us philosophy...and that's why from your opinions on philosophy i dare strongly to concur the say that ' Africans are only dreamers not thinkers." it's from your points i see in the need of exercising philosophy and establish this subject to our education curriculum so as to lead a way to our people to create the high level of reasoning and seeing things in reality not only depending on the externals and claiming that they know while they are in allegory of the caves living in shadow world.
dear my friend, what you're unaware of is simply like to be in dark....and Socrates claimed that, "little knowledge is the poison of the soul.' truly, we're in the allegory of the caves and that's why we're like the way we're.....we're possessing little knowledge and that's why we've been poisoned our souls. we cant exactly develop in any case if we deny the power of philosophy......philosophy my dear is the searching for the truth(reality), seeking the wisdom and there no wisdom, there no development.
westerners developed just because they practiced philosophy, they're pioneers of scientific discoveries just because of philosophy and studying of the principles that established by philosophers. so it is a whimsical to contempt to philosophy that does not contribute to the development in the modern world.
your ideas seems only to lies on materialistic point of views but you fail to understand that idealistic views precedes before materialistic...that we cant develop materially without first having ideas(thoughts). and one thing i want you to remember is that, any study stands on its philosophy as it gives the direction to it, and that why the highest stage of any study is philosophy(phd). but the problem we've is that majority understands philosophy in a wrong manner...they know nothing about its essence, its subject matter and that's why even you dare to dis-values. remember that "as we're not yet human being perfect, therefore we need philosophy so as to be perfect.
for me, philosophy provides the culture of meditation, contemplation, thinking where man with this practices comes with the solution of his problems and discovers everything..this is only through critical thinking. it's a joke, and i can't stand it if you're really meaning it that philosophy has nothing to impact on modern world! that's an absolutely opium or absurdity. today we live in the scientific world which its stands relies on our past philosophical scholars like Newton, Descartes, Aristotle, Hobbes, Smith, Dewey etc who put some of scientific principle for most of fields of life. any development, is the result of human deep and critical thinking either empirical scientifically or rational scientifically, and this is the product philosophizing not otherwise. therefore, because Nyerere was a philosopher and know the truth and things in their real sense didn't like his people to suffer from the ignorance, and that is why he insisted that our university must be a place where people are trained to think critically and independent so as to create a ration changing society. is ideas are still valid and i see fantastic logic in that claim because i really understand what he was intending. to hesitate him doesn't mean his ideas are of not any values.

 

[Mzuvendi]

that's the problem of not knowing something in its essence, and that's why i believe that the strong weapons westerners used to colonize us is to destroy our mode of thinking and believing which contained our philosophy. one of friends of mine once told me that, 'we're colonized just because whites denied us philosophy...and that's why from your opinions on philosophy i dare strongly to concur the say that ' Africans are only dreamers not thinkers." it's from your points i see in the need of exercising philosophy and establish this subject to our education curriculum so as to lead a way to our people to create the high level of reasoning and seeing things in reality not only depending on the externals and claiming that they know while they are in allegory of the caves living in shadow world.
dear my friend, what you're unaware of is simply like to be in dark....and Socrates claimed that, "little knowledge is the poison of the soul.' truly, we're in the allegory of the caves and that's why we're like the way we're.....we're possessing little knowledge and that's why we've been poisoned our souls. we cant exactly develop in any case if we deny the power of philosophy......philosophy my dear is the searching for the truth(reality), seeking the wisdom and there no wisdom, there no development.
westerners developed just because they practiced philosophy, they're pioneers of scientific discoveries just because of philosophy and studying of the principles that established by philosophers. so it is a whimsical to contempt to philosophy that does not contribute to the development in the modern world.
your ideas seems only to lies on materialistic point of views but you fail to understand that idealistic views precedes before materialistic...that we cant develop materially without first having ideas(thoughts). and one thing i want you to remember is that, any study stands on its philosophy as it gives the direction to it, and that why the highest stage of any study is philosophy(phd). but the problem we've is that majority understands philosophy in a wrong manner...they know nothing about its essence, its subject matter and that's why even you dare to dis-values. remember that "as we're not yet human being perfect, therefore we need philosophy so as to be perfect.
for me, philosophy provides the culture of meditation, contemplation, thinking where man with this practices comes with the solution of his problems and discovers everything..this is only through critical thinking. it's a joke, and i can't stand it if you're really meaning it that philosophy has nothing to impact on modern world! that's an absolutely opium or absurdity. today we live in the scientific world which its stands relies on our past philosophical scholars like Newton, Descartes, Aristotle, Hobbes, Smith, Dewey etc who put some of scientific principle for most of fields of life. any development, is the result of human deep and critical thinking either empirical scientifically or rational scientifically, and this is the product philosophizing not otherwise. therefore, because Nyerere was a philosopher and know the truth and things in their real sense didn't like his people to suffer from the ignorance, and that is why he insisted that our university must be a place where people are trained to think critically and independent so as to create a ration changing society. is ideas are still valid and i see fantastic logic in that claim because i really understand what he was intending. to hesitate him doesn't mean his ideas are of not any values.

Do you know the problem of Tanzanians? They are talkers and not doers and this come down to the way the new independent country was launched. One of the first things to be established right after independence was Kivukoni College. The goal of the institution was to teach Africans, in particular Tanzanians, political philosophies. Twenty years later each zone had at least one institution. If philosophy was so great, we would have expected Tanzanians to perform wonders. However, that isn't what I see today.

If philosophy is so great, Greek could have been one of the well developed country in the world. They are not and the reason is if you don't have the right environment, people will not rise up to the challenge. Take for example the Anglo-sax. They came very late on the world stage in terms of civilization and learning but they took the world by storm. Likewise, if Tanzanians have the right ingredients for prosperity, they will be able to make it in their own. So your promotion of philosophy is highly exaggerated.

University students can think critically if the right environments exist. The way to university in Tanzania doesn't prepare scholars as students have to compete for good marks. Instead of learning, they memorize. Instead of learning, they spend considerable amount of time performing elimu ya kijitegemea which is a primitive form of education. How do you get philosophers out of these miserable students? Note that Newton and Einstein showed the scholastic aptitudes before they went to university.

 

[philosophy]

elimu ya kujitegemea was one of the result of thinking from the philosophy of one thinkers. what made it unsuccessive [ujamaa] is the result of not thinking for Tanzanians. if people could think properly on the basis of ujamaa, elimu ya kujitegemea could be one of the best impact in our nations, only Nyerere thought about that and came up with such insight but no one of the rest could think on how to develop it or to think differently, opposing it and came up with best solution. You say that elimu ya kujitegemea is remaining primitive and i don't also see even the modern form of education leading succession to our national development. so instead of elimu ya kujitegemea we could have elimu ya kutegemea which is modern for you?
what is right environment? and who is liable to make right environment? do right environment comes automatically? if, doesn't occur automatically, then, there is someone who make them right and that's a rational human. The denial of philosophy for Tanzanians is the root cause miserable we witness just because we haven't created our own mode of thinking which will direct us to what we need to be. The same as for Greeks. After the raise of philosophy in Athen, most of Geeks did not happy with it and denied it, that's why they suffer, but look Italy,America, Britain, France, Germany, Russia who embraced it, how far they have developed.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Actually Nyerere didn't understand human nature. The entire creed of his politics was to make people work together, eat together and share poverty. In essence he was in the process of creating a new religion (Ujamaa ni imani). How do you challenge this?

Assessments of Julius Nyerere, Tanzania’s first president, are conventionally focused on his quest for ujamaa, a just social order based on community solidarity. Whereas supporters hailed ujamaa as a creative adjustment of socialist thought to local realities, critics contemptuously dismissed it as a romantic and unscientific endeavour.

Nyerere’s concern with social justice needs to be understood in the context of his overriding commitment to building a nation state. In his farewell address to the Tanzanian Parliament on July 29 1985, Nyerere recalled: “The single most important task, which I set out in my inaugural address in December 1962, was that of building a united nation on the basis of human equality and dignity.”

By “equality and dignity” Nyerere understood, above all, equality in the face of law, or, put differently, equality in spite of differences and privileges – those based on race and tribe – institutionalised and enforced by colonial law. Faced with widespread and popular demands for race-based affirmative action, Nyerere insisted on doing away with all race-based distinctions in civil law. It brought Nyerere face to face with the most serious political crisis of his life, triggered by the 1964 army mutiny that drew significant support from the organised workers’ movement.

To do away with ethnic-based distinctions in customary law, Nyerere mounted a political project that did away with native authorities. Nyerere was, above all, a militant nationalist determined to build a centralised territorial state and a common citizenship in the face of a colonial legacy defined by politically and legally enforced racial and tribal privilege.

The political status of race was a key issue in the period leading to independence. It distinguished the main nationalist party, the Tanganyika African National Union (Tanu), from challenges to its right and left. To the right was the United Tanganyika Party, which embraced the colonial vision of a racialised political order, dressed up as multiracialism, whereby political rights flowed first and foremost from one’s officially defined racial identity. To the left was the populist African National Congress (ANC), which championed a nativist political agenda whereby citizenship in the independent state would be confined to the majority native population, Africans. From the racialised colonial definition of “African” would follow the answer to the question: Who is a Tanganyikan?

Three key events defined the struggle between these political tendencies. The first was Tanu’s decision to participate in the racially based election of 1958. The second was the 1961 parliamentary debate on citizenship. The third was the 1961 to 1964 struggle for affirmative action in favour of the native majority, a programme called Africanisation.

Indigenous population

The party that led Tanganyika’s independence struggle, Tanu, excluded Asian and European residents. The leadership of the ANC called for citizenship to be restricted to the indigenous population and a state racially defined by an all-African government and an all-African civil service, and a society restructured by a redistribution of wealth and income from the historically privileged non-native (European and Asian) minorities to the historically oppressed and disadvantaged native (African) majority. It declared: “Our people have suffered exploitation from colonial imperialists for over 40 years and even today are still economically enslaved by the Asians.”

The National Assembly debate over how to define citizenship took place in October 1961, two months before independence. The question was clear: Should citizenship be based on race or residence? The ANC stood for the former; Nyerere for the latter. During the debate, the ANC called for priority for “indigenous inhabitants” over “other races who have made their homes in Tanganyika”.

Nyerere is said to have lost his temper, most uncharacteristically, and denounced his opponents sharply: “If we are going to base citizenship on colour, we will commit a crime. Discrimination against human beings because of their colour is exactly what we have been fighting against … We glorify human beings, not colour.”

In 1959, there were 299 civil service administrative officers in the highest ranks of the civil service in Tanganyika; of these, only seven were black Tanganyikans. The African-isation debate in Parliament unfolded against this background.

The ANC stated unequivocally: “Africans cannot progress unless special privileges and protections are given to them so as to enable them to catch up with the progress of non-Africans. Advanced and backward people cannot be treated equally because to do so would mean the continuance of the already existing inequality between them. Unequals cannot be treated equally.”

Rapid Africanisation

Nyerere tried to stake a middle ground, stating that black Tanga-nyikans should have preference in new appointments and promotions on the grounds that the racial composition of the civil service should reflect the country’s population.

The ANC’s arguments resonated with trade union leadership, as with many of Tanu’s middle-rank leaders. As provincial party officials joined trade unionists to demand rapid Africanisation, Nyerere faced a rapidly widening split in the ranks of Tanu. He chose to resign as prime minister after only 44 days in office, returning to the party to purge it of dissidents while handing over the reins of government to Rashidi Kawawa, former president of the Tanganyika Federation of Labour (TFL). Kawawa quickened the tempo of Africanisation, instituting a commission to ensure Africanisation of the entire civil service. By June 1962, 40% of expatriate civil servants had left the country.

Nyerere’s concessions on African-isation went with repression of dissent: new laws in June 1962 limited the right to strike, prevented civil servants from joining unions, gave the TFL greater power over member unions and legalised preventive detention.

In January 1963, Nyerere assumed office as the first president of Tanganyika. At the Tanu annual delegates’ conference, he announced plans to introduce a one-party system and open up Tanu membership to all races. The ANC and the All-Muslim National Union of Tanganyika demanded a referendum. The government invoked the Preventive Detention Act to arrest key opposition leaders.

Matters reached a head in Jan-uary 1964 as Nyerere denounced Africanisation as “a form of racial discrimination”. In a letter to government ministries, he proclaimed: “The nation must use the entire reservoir of skill and experience … This means that discrimination in civil service employment as regards recruitment, training and promotion must be brought to an end immediately … We cannot allow the growth of first- and second-class citizenship. Africanisation is dead.”

The abortive military coup of Jan-uary 20 1964 followed less than two weeks later.

This is an edited extract from Professor Mahmood Mamdani’s new book, Define and Rule: Native as Political Identity, published by Wits University Press. Mamdani will deliver the Mapungubwe Institute’s annual lecture on March 18 at 6.30pm at the university’s science stadium. Email esther@masake.co.za or phone 0116563641

Source: Nation state: Nyerere's legacy | Opinion | Analysis | Mail & Guardian

Inabidi uangalie kwanza priority zake kabla ya kushutumu sera zenyewe, maana sera zilikuwa katika mkakati wa kile kilichokua muhimu kwenye kujenga taifa lenye kuheshimiana might not be ideal for economic benefits but it served the main purposes kwenye ujenzi wa taifa.

 

[Mzuvendi]

Inabidi uangalie kwanza priority zake kabla ya kushutumu sera zenyewe, maana sera zilikuwa katika mkakati wa kile kilichokua muhimu kwenye kujenga taifa lenye kuheshimiana might not be ideal for economic benefits but it served the main purposes kwenye ujenzi wa taifa.

Dear Eric:

Did Tanzanians respect each other before and right after the independence? Yes they did. Tanganyika came out as independent country with all characteristics of a free and united nation: common language, respect of one another, minimum regional or tribal divisions. The only thing he was supposed to do was to build the economic well being of the country. He failed (end of story).

 

[Mzuvendi]

elimu ya kujitegemea was one of the result of thinking from the philosophy of one thinkers. what made it unsuccessive [ujamaa] is the result of not thinking for Tanzanians. if people could think properly on the basis of ujamaa, elimu ya kujitegemea could be one of the best impact in our nations, only Nyerere thought about that and came up with such insight but no one of the rest could think on how to develop it or to think differently, opposing it and came up with best solution. You say that elimu ya kujitegemea is remaining primitive and i don't also see even the modern form of education leading succession to our national development. so instead of elimu ya kujitegemea we could have elimu ya kutegemea which is modern for you?
what is right environment? and who is liable to make right environment? do right environment comes automatically? if, doesn't occur automatically, then, there is someone who make them right and that's a rational human. The denial of philosophy for Tanzanians is the root cause miserable we witness just because we haven't created our own mode of thinking which will direct us to what we need to be. The same as for Greeks. After the raise of philosophy in Athen, most of Geeks did not happy with it and denied it, that's why they suffer, but look Italy,America, Britain, France, Germany, Russia who embraced it, how far they have developed.

Every human being is a thinker and I don't know why you insist that people should have followed Nyerere's ideas. That is being an elitist. This is because we are born to satisfy our personal needs and ambitions first, before we embark on the business of fulfilling those of others and community. If you are a practical person you would understand this.

With regard to Ujamaa and Elimu ya kujitegemea, I went through them and I am happy that Tanzanians have abandoned them unceremoniously. Tanzanian students spend 6 to 8hrs in classrooms, After classroom they for Elimu ya kujitegemes for 2 to 3hrs. My question is when these students will have the opportunity to rest their minds and think critically? Do you think manual work and hard physical labor helps students? I wonder why memorization is a preferable method of learning in Tanzania.

Concerning philosophy, you are making it harder for yourself. East Africa is the origin of humanity. We have lived in that part of the world since the first human walked the earth. We didn't need philosophy back then, why would we need it now?

Civilization goes in cycles. There was a reason why Greeks reached their civilization in ancient time. It was at the center of business. The Greek philosophies didn't build the Greek civilization. Commerce did. As a matter of fact Greek philosophers were the product of commerce.

British were brave enough to go out of their island to do business with other nations. The same can be said about the French, the Dutch and other developed nations. Tanzania is in a very good geographic position to be a commercial center which can induce economic activities necessary to launch our own economic miracles and nurture home grown philosophies and that's what you should be thinking.

 

[philosophy]

my dear brother, i see in you the power of lacking understanding on the topic, that's why you argue strongly, emotional, sensation drives you and sometimes you dare to speak things irrelevant to the essence of the matter.
it's pure you don't know that you don't know. why? simply because you don't know...i advice you to read more and just lead the starting point of civilization in western, and if you'll not find it Greece in where philosophy played a great role on that.

[Concerning philosophy, you are making it harder for yourself. East Africa is the origin of humanity. We have lived in that part of the world since the first human walked the earth. We didn't need philosophy back then, why would we need it now?

Civilization goes in cycles. There was a reason why Greeks reached their civilization in ancient time. It was at the center of business. The Greek philosophies didn't build the Greek civilization. Commerce did. As a matter of fact Greek philosophers were the product of commerce.

British were brave enough to go out of their island to do business with other nations. The same can be said about the French, the Dutch and other developed nations. Tanzania is in a very good geographic position to be a commercial center which can induce economic activities necessary to launch our own economic miracles and nurture home grown philosophies and that's what you]

just look how your points are self contradictory or if not you speak out of your consciousness........"philosophy did not bring civilization in ancient Greek, but commerce did.......Greek philosophers are product of commerce. and you go far using Britain, dutch, France to support your illogical claims that only business lead them to develop." it's purely a silly claimant!

One thing you need to know is that this forum is called GREET THINKERS.. so we expect you, me, or anyone to think critically before we claim something. that, one question i ask you is that, "what comes first between ideas/thoughts and action? and every human activities are the result of what? try to know what we speak of is the practice of thinking in human person and thinking (reason, meditation, contemplation etc) is the result of mind, and after that, those results comes into practice. therefore, i want you to know that business/commerce is the result of human thinking and thinking is the core purpose of the blessed field, so called PHILOSOPHY.
Without thinking how human person can initiate anything? Nyerere was a thinker and most of his effects was due to his investment in thinking.......nothing else comes out of mind. what you claim of Britain, France etc was not came into being out of nothing but only was the result of human thinking. we can't be a good place for marketing without living thinking citizens unless we're the same as animal. for tanzania and other place, with no rational people who always activate their mind to think and reason,no any development or activities might be carried on. this is very clear and self demonstrable....i don't understand wahy don't you understand that

 

[philosophy]

mimi nafikiri kumchukia mtu au kutokumpenda mtu haihalalishi ubaya katika kile anachokifanya...sera za nyerere zilikuwa na manufaa kwa taifa.

 

[Mzuvendi]

my dear brother, i see in you the power of lacking understanding on the topic, that's why you argue strongly, emotional, sensation drives you and sometimes you dare to speak things irrelevant to the essence of the matter.
it's pure you don't know that you don't know. why? simply because you don't know...i advice you to read more and just lead the starting point of civilization in western, and if you'll not find it Greece in where philosophy played a great role on that.

[Concerning philosophy, you are making it harder for yourself. East Africa is the origin of humanity. We have lived in that part of the world since the first human walked the earth. We didn't need philosophy back then, why would we need it now?

Civilization goes in cycles. There was a reason why Greeks reached their civilization in ancient time. It was at the center of business. The Greek philosophies didn't build the Greek civilization. Commerce did. As a matter of fact Greek philosophers were the product of commerce.

British were brave enough to go out of their island to do business with other nations. The same can be said about the French, the Dutch and other developed nations. Tanzania is in a very good geographic position to be a commercial center which can induce economic activities necessary to launch our own economic miracles and nurture home grown philosophies and that's what you]

just look how your points are self contradictory or if not you speak out of your consciousness........"philosophy did not bring civilization in ancient Greek, but commerce did.......Greek philosophers are product of commerce. and you go far using Britain, dutch, France to support your illogical claims that only business lead them to develop." it's purely a silly claimant!

One thing you need to know is that this forum is called GREET THINKERS.. so we expect you, me, or anyone to think critically before we claim something. that, one question i ask you is that, "what comes first between ideas/thoughts and action? and every human activities are the result of what? try to know what we speak of is the practice of thinking in human person and thinking (reason, meditation, contemplation etc) is the result of mind, and after that, those results comes into practice. therefore, i want you to know that business/commerce is the result of human thinking and thinking is the core purpose of the blessed field, so called PHILOSOPHY.
Without thinking how human person can initiate anything? Nyerere was a thinker and most of his effects was due to his investment in thinking.......nothing else comes out of mind. what you claim of Britain, France etc was not came into being out of nothing but only was the result of human thinking. we can't be a good place for marketing without living thinking citizens unless we're the same as animal. for tanzania and other place, with no rational people who always activate their mind to think and reason,no any development or activities might be carried on. this is very clear and self demonstrable....i don't understand wahy don't you understand that

First of all I am not a great thinker and if being a great thinker is a prerequisite of being a member of this club, you can as well ban me. I strongly believe that calling yourself a great think is elitist and immodest.

Now let's roll back to our discussion. Having rational thinkers isn't a prerequisite for civilization. All Greek philosophers you know came to prominence after the Greek civilization was already taken shape. Therefore, your claim is invalid.

The key to civilization is division of labor and commerce is the driver of it. The society can't have philosophers if it doesn't have farmers produce enough food for themselves and those who don't engage in agriculture. This has been observed by Ibn Khaldun, Adam Smith, and Karl Marx. So philosophy is the product of civilization. To state it differently, the need of developed society to have teachers, specialists in given disciplines brought in new profession, philosophy.

In my ancestral village, my grandfather and his peers used to do everything for themselves. Why on earth did they need a teacher? They didn't because the system of their productivity was for self sustenance only. It didn't evolve into commerce.

Today the same village is a booming town. They still don't have a philosopher, but they do commerce with other villages, town and cities.