Katiba ya Kenya ni kama vile inataka kuwa ya USA

Its all good,katiba ya US ndio imefanya US superpower & Democratic...hope will do the same for Kenyans,nafikiri wakiwa serious na kufuata vizuri kenya in 20 yrs watakuwa out of africa.

jethro said:

Wana JF,

Katika kupitia gazeti la Kenya leo DAILY NATION naona hawa ndugu zetu wa kenya katiba yao ina mwelekeo kama fumo fulani wa USA naona watu wanagombea majimbo yanakuwa na watu wanatakao waongoza kwa majimbo yao na kila jimbo kujitegemea na ukichemka tu kama kiongozi inakula kwako.

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That's a big problem of we developing countries. we are always mimicing what the developing world doing hoping that we'll develop rapidly and match them over the sudden. we forget that, their current laws and legislation passed through evolution. Thus, their laws are compartible with their social contracts.
This kind of law/constitution drafting (copying) leads to the failure of the implementing of the same.

jethro said:

Wana JF,

Katika kupitia gazeti la Kenya leo DAILY NATION naona hawa ndugu zetu wa kenya katiba yao ina mwelekeo kama fumo fulani wa USA naona watu wanagombea majimbo yanakuwa na watu wanatakao waongoza kwa majimbo yao na kila jimbo kujitegemea na ukichemka tu kama kiongozi inakula kwako.

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Mkuu wangu Jethro Kenya wako mbali sana, yaani kama ni hatua wameshapiga kumi sisi bado tunajiuliza

eliakeem said:

That's a big problem of we developing countries. we are always mimicing what the developing world doing hoping that we'll develop rapidly and match them over the sudden. we forget that, their current laws and legislation passed through evolution. Thus, their laws are compartible with their social contracts.
This kind of law/constitution drafting (copying) leads to the failure of the implementing of the same.

Click to expand...

Hata mimi huu mfumo wa kuita viongozi "maseneta' na magavana" ulinikera sana tulipokuwa tuajadili vipengee wa kadha kabla ya uchaguzi. Lakini mimi nilionelea afathari kuipigia debe katiba maanake kuna vipengee vingineo muhimu sana kuliko vile vya katiba tuliobadilisha. Nadhani waandishi (kamati ya wataalam) wa katiba, hasaa ule kiongozi wao (Nzamba Kitonga) hawajaelimika vya kutosha kuhusu adhari za kuzienzi sana mifumo kutoka nchi za ng'ambo. Ama labda Marekani ilimuahidi kitita cha pesa ili atupilie mbali mfumo wa Waingereza na kuleta mfumo wa Marekani.

Wapumbavu kabisa

MkenyaMzalendo said:

Hata mimi huu mfumo wa kuita viongozi "maseneta' na magavana" ulinikera sana tulipokuwa tuajadili vipengee wa kadha kabla ya uchaguzi. Lakini mimi nilionelea afathari kuipigia debe katiba maanake kuna vipengee vingineo muhimu sana kuliko vile vya katiba tuliobadilisha. Nadhani waandishi (kamati ya wataalam) wa katiba, hasaa ule kiongozi wao (Nzamba Kitonga) hawajaelimika vya kutosha kuhusu adhari za kuzienzi sana mifumo kutoka nchi za ng'ambo. Ama labda Marekani ilimuahidi kitita cha pesa ili atupilie mbali mfumo wa Waingereza na kuleta mfumo wa Marekani.

Wapumbavu kabisa

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Huenda kweli aliahidiwa kitita, lkn US naye anatumia Commonwealth legal system wenyewe huitanga comon law au mfumo wa sheria za uingereza.
Botswana ndiyo yenye mfumo mzuri wa sheria, wameelewa the context ya comparative law. hata ukiangalia mfumo wao wa local government ni of its own kind. ndiyo maana wanaitwa cleverer than the cleverest.

eliakeem said:

That's a big problem of we developing countries. we are always mimicing what the developing world doing hoping that we'll develop rapidly and match them over the sudden. we forget that, their current laws and legislation passed through evolution. Thus, their laws are compartible with their social contracts.
This kind of law/constitution drafting (copying) leads to the failure of the implementing of the same.

Click to expand...

Just remember kuwa Kenya ilikuwa na majimbo kwenye Katiba ya kwanza, kabla haijachokorwa na mapoliticians kwa hiyo sioni walipo iga.

original 1963 Katiba provided for Regional Assemblies which had exclusive authority over land, primary and secondary education, local taxes, police force and local government.

It is the Kenyatta then Moi regimes that changed all that. Now I am not saying that some amendments were no required, but it was amended mainly to a presidential system (origina ilikuwa waziri mkuu) that vested all the powers on the president giving him supreme power over all the other organs of the government.

So you see, the Kenyan people have always been against a supreme central government, but the powers that be forced it upon us and that is why the people have been fighting against the supremacy of the central government achieved through the provincial administration.

Even right now there is a struggle brewing up as the government wants to keep the provincial admin. while the people do not want it.

Soma Katiba yenyewe hapa utaona palikuwepo ma Senator, governor hata county councils.

jethro said:

Wana JF,

Katika kupitia gazeti la Kenya leo DAILY NATION naona hawa ndugu zetu wa kenya katiba yao ina mwelekeo kama fumo fulani wa USA naona watu wanagombea majimbo yanakuwa na watu wanatakao waongoza kwa majimbo yao na kila jimbo kujitegemea na ukichemka tu kama kiongozi inakula kwako.

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Ndiyo sera ya majimbo hayo ambayo CHADEMA wanaiongelea kila siku.

Not good for business, it supports xenophobia and racism for the minorities!

RAJ PATEL JR said:

Not good for business, it supports xenophobia and racism for the minorities!

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Unaweza taja hizo vipengee zinazowanyanyasa wengine?

eliakeem said:

That's a big problem of we developing countries. we are always mimicing what the developing world doing hoping that we'll develop rapidly and match them over the sudden. we forget that, their current laws and legislation passed through evolution. Thus, their laws are compartible with their social contracts.
This kind of law/constitution drafting (copying) leads to the failure of the implementing of the same.

Click to expand...

Ukweli ndo huo ni kwamba historia ndo inakufanya ubadilishe katiba na uchumi wako ndo utakaokutaka kuibadilisha.

Ngoja pia tujiulize Kenya wanabadilisha katiba kwa lengo la kuondoa tofauti za kikabila au za kiuchumi au ni lipi hasa? au kwa vile imerithiwa kutoka kwa mkoloni basi.

Hapa nina jambo moja kama ni maswala ya kikabila basi kwenye katiba ile wangeongeza sheria ndogo za makabila au wangefungua mahakama za katiba ya nchi. Ukisema wana mrengo wa kimarekani katiba ya marekani ni bei mbaya sana kui-run ( yaani kuihudumia ni ghali mno) mambo yote yanayofanyika marekani tujue kwamba ni katiba inavyosema na haki za binadamu ni kama vile hakuna. Kuna uonevu sana kule kiasi cha mtu anafanya kitu makusudi akijua katiba na sheria ni ubwete. Sasa ukija kwetu kama vitu hivyo vitakuwepo basi ujue unahitaji hela nyingi kwanza kimaisha na pia ulinzi wa haki zako. Huna hela huna haki that is USA. Welfare sevice ni ndogo sana mfano public health in USA ni afadhali Tanzania unakwenda MAwenzi hospital ukalipa shs 500 kulikoni USA. Wenyewe wanakuja INdia kutibiwa kulikoni kutibiwa USA. Yote hiyo ni katiba ya nchi.

tunawaiga vitu vingi sana watu wa west kitu pekee tusichoweza waiga ni kuendeleza nchi!

jethro said:

Wana JF,

Katika kupitia gazeti la Kenya leo DAILY NATION naona hawa ndugu zetu wa kenya katiba yao ina mwelekeo kama fumo fulani wa USA naona watu wanagombea majimbo yanakuwa na watu wanatakao waongoza kwa majimbo yao na kila jimbo kujitegemea na ukichemka tu kama kiongozi inakula kwako.

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CHADEMA walishakuja na hiyo sera sisi tukawaona wajinga...

Namtih58 said:

Just remember kuwa Kenya ilikuwa na majimbo kwenye Katiba ya kwanza, kabla haijachokorwa na mapoliticians kwa hiyo sioni walipo iga.

original 1963 Katiba provided for Regional Assemblies which had exclusive authority over land, primary and secondary education, local taxes, police force and local government.

It is the Kenyatta then Moi regimes that changed all that. Now I am not saying that some amendments were no required, but it was amended mainly to a presidential system (origina ilikuwa waziri mkuu) that vested all the powers on the president giving him supreme power over all the other organs of the government.

So you see, the Kenyan people have always been against a supreme central government, but the powers that be forced it upon us and that is why the people have been fighting against the supremacy of the central government achieved through the provincial administration.

Even right now there is a struggle brewing up as the government wants to keep the provincial admin. while the people do not want it.

Soma Katiba yenyewe hapa utaona palikuwepo ma Senator, governor hata county councils.

Click to expand...

Hata iwe majimbo yalikuwapo tangu 1963, bado ni kuiga toka US, maana Katiba ya US ipo tangu karne ya 18. wangetumia chiefdom badala ya majimbo ningesema in asili ya kenya licha ya kwamba inaleta ukabila,(tz tuliimaliza hiyo kwa Nyarubanja enfranchisement Act 1963 na baadaye Chiefdom enfranchisement Act 1967). maana katika historia yetu kama waafrika hatuna majimbo wala mikoa wala wilaya.

eliakeem said:

Hata iwe majimbo yalikuwapo tangu 1963, bado ni kuiga toka US, maana Katiba ya US ipo tangu karne ya 18. wangetumia chiefdom badala ya majimbo ningesema in asili ya kenya licha ya kwamba inaleta ukabila,(tz tuliimaliza hiyo kwa Nyarubanja enfranchisement Act 1963 na baadaye Chiefdom enfranchisement Act 1967). maana katika historia yetu kama waafrika hatuna majimbo wala mikoa wala wilaya.

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Hata iwe ya kuiga, bora isaidie wanainchi ndilo jambo muhimu, kama unafikiri kuna katiba ambayo imetengenezwa bila kuiga (I prefer "Borrowing ideas"), basi umepotea. Na pia ujue kama TZ mnasubiri kutengeneza katiba "Original" hamtafanikiwa, mwenye maarifa huomba usaidizi wa kimawazo kwa mwenziye aliyefanikiwa. Kuna uwezekano wakati ukifika wa kubadili katiba ya TZ, mtaomba usaidizi kutoka Kenya.

RealDeal said:

Hata iwe ya kuiga, bora isaidie wanainchi ndilo jambo muhimu, kama unafikiri kuna katiba ambayo imetengenezwa bila kuiga (I prefer "Borrowing ideas"), basi umepotea. Na pia ujue kama TZ mnasubiri kutengeneza katiba "Original" hamtafanikiwa, mwenye maarifa huomba usaidizi wa kimawazo kwa mwenziye aliyefanikiwa. Kuna uwezekano wakati ukifika wa kubadili katiba ya TZ, mtaomba usaidizi kutoka Kenya.

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Kama itasaidia wananchi, it's well&good. but I'm doubt if it'll help them coz US people are quite different from knys and it's not originated from your culture and social contract. Nimeisoma vipengere vingi, lkn nikaona kuna baadhi, you can't turn them into visualization with FullHD. e.g uquetable land redistribution.
lastly, RealD, there is a big difference btn borrowing concepts/ideas and mimicing/copying in laws/constitution drafting, and even in definition clinic. What i see in your constn is a number of copied phrases and articles, and replacing the word kny.

eliakeem said:

Kama itasaidia wananchi, it's well&good. but I'm doubt if it'll help them coz US people are quite different from knys and it's not originated from your culture and social contract. Nimeisoma vipengere vingi, lkn nikaona kuna baadhi, you can't turn them into visualization with FullHD. e.g uquetable land redistribution.
lastly, RealD, there is a big difference btn borrowing concepts/ideas and mimicing/copying in laws/constitution drafting, and even in definition clinic. What i see in your constn is a number of copied phrases and articles, and replacing the word kny.

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Well, by that, it seems to me you are all totally on a different agenda, rather than the constitution one. If not so, then you need to get a big chunk of facts right. Nice day.

RAJ PATEL JR said:

Not good for business, it supports xenophobia and racism for the minorities!

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Wewe nawe kwa kuripuka tu na kukurupuka mwisho!!! No wonder watu wanakutuhumu fisadi maana hakuna kitu huko juu!!!

eliakeem said:

Hata iwe majimbo yalikuwapo tangu 1963, bado ni kuiga toka US, maana Katiba ya US ipo tangu karne ya 18. wangetumia chiefdom badala ya majimbo ningesema in asili ya kenya licha ya kwamba inaleta ukabila,(tz tuliimaliza hiyo kwa Nyarubanja enfranchisement Act 1963 na baadaye Chiefdom enfranchisement Act 1967). maana katika historia yetu kama waafrika hatuna majimbo wala mikoa wala wilaya.

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Kwa hiyo tungekuwa na chiefdom leo ungesema Kenya iliwaiga Tz. Kumbuka hata Katiba ya US iko based on political experiences za europe.

Halafu niulize ya TZ ndio yakipekee ukiangalia hata hiyo ina influence za kutoka kwingine. Arguments zingine sizielewi. We learn from experience, what is the use of reinventing the wheel when one already exists that has already been tested and optimized.

eliakeem said:

katika historia yetu kama waafrika hatuna majimbo wala mikoa wala wilaya.

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Unavo sema hivi, unaongelea neno tuu ama maana yake. Sababu as far as I know Africa hatujawahi kuwa na centralised government. Infact ukiangalia most tribes Africa tulikuwa averse to a centralised structure, ndio maana palikuwepo councils of elders bambao wali-oversee independently community mbalimbali.

What Kenya has done is combine the best of both worlds the way its people wanted. I do not see anything wrong in that. Especialy if it is going to benefit the people.

Nchi zote za Afrika zilianzishwa na wazungu bila kuzingatia tofauti za lugha, ukabila, kidini na utamaduni wa watu. Kama kuna mtu anayefikiri kuna uwezekano wa nchi yeyote (isipokuwa Somalia) ambayo ingebuni sera za kikatiba ikifuatilia utamaduni wa wananchi walio katika nchi hio pekee (kama vile eliakeem anawashiria kwa kipachiko chake ), huyo mtu hafahamu kabisa ugumu na utata unayokumba mataifa ya Afrika. Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, Africa Kusini, na nchi zinginezo haziwezi linganishwa na nchi kama vile ufaransa, uingereza, uhispania au ureno ambazo ziliundwa kufuatilia mila na lugha. Pia, nchi nyingi hazikuwahi kutawalwa na wakoloni kama ilivyo hapa. Wakati tulipopata uhuru, tuliridhi institutions za wakoloni na hata wa leo, sera nyingi hapa Afrika zinafuatilia sera za ukoloni.