Kenya acheni Ujinga, Kenya ni third World Country!

Mwanzi1 said:
FYI there not counting marbles, google it you'll know.
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If I asked you to google what people do to food, would you? common sense would tell you that food is eaten. spoon, fork, chopsticks and hands are just ways to eat!
having said that, what do you think they do with the marbles to know who won? paint them?! of-course they count them!!! by which ever means but the bottom line is counting and I don't need google to tell me that, my common sense will do just fine.
Mwanzi1 said:
BTW, I still emphasize that Africa need it's own truth worthy political and election system, rather than the one made elsewhere.
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Left to you, you would take us back to stone age!
Election systems are not just stumbled upon, they are arrived at to meet certain demands. For example in earlier years I believe Kenya used 'Mlolongo' system where people would line for a particular candidate and whoever had the longest line won, but this had its downsides for example there was no secrecy and as the population grew it became impractical. now imagine if Kenya today was to use marbles, they would need about 110 million marbles!!! I don't need to analyze the challenges of handling 110 million marbles.
 
What baffles me is the way your leaving behind my main point that Africa needs its own political and election system, rather than the one which was parachuted from so called western world. All I hear from you is marble election won't work for Kenya, no one had forced Kenya to use it. Kenya can create her own election system, the one which answers Kenyan question's. As we can all witness, the current system seems not to be working. Too much corruption, very few people trust it. Even in Tanzania, election system is questionable that's why I said and I repeat again African needs its own style of politics and election system. (See my post no. 41)

In Tanzania we where the first country to introduced a system to register a child using mobile phone. Before it was copied by other countries, Tanzania came up with the idea and it worked. Why it worked? Is because number of Tanzania children's are born at home, and in the remote places. On top of that, it was cost effective because you don't need to owner a mobile phone, you can easily borrow one and register a child. Now this is African solution, for African problem.

Instead of taking time and learn the Gambian system maybe there is room you could improve, you just dismiss it all together. This tells me we have a long way to go, the roots of western world are far too deep. Are you telling me 110 million marbles are far too expensive than a biometric kit for the whole country

And again no one is sitting down counting one marble after another, the marbles are placed on specific board and its those boards which determine the winner.
 
Mwanzi1 said:
What baffles me is the way your leaving behind my main point that Africa needs its own political and election system, rather than the one which was parachuted from so called western world.
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whoever told you Africa was special messed you up!!.....The world is one big village if you ask me....
Africa needs her own political system and election is indeed a catchy statement if you enjoy ignorance! any system is meant to solve a specific problem regardless the location.
The Gambian marble system would be just as effective in Antarctica for a similar population of illiterates. who cares where its from if it solves a similar problem?
How are children given birth to at home an African problem? it happens in other continents too. The cell phone registered babies would register in shinyanga just as good as Haiti or Iraq.
Mwanzi1 said:
Instead of taking time and learn the Gambian system maybe there is room you could improve, you just dismiss it all together.
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did you read your link? it said the system was due to high Gambian illiterate population!! non of the East African countries fall in this group. it simply does not apply so it does not need any studies
Mwanzi1 said:
Are you telling me 110 million marbles are far too expensive than a biometric kit for the whole country
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these were my exact words "I don't need to analyze the challenges of handling 110 million marbles." unless you are also delusional, show me the word expensive!!
Mwanzi1 said:
And again no one is sitting down counting one marble after another, the marbles are placed on specific board and its those boards which determine the winner.
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Your grasp on things is wanting!! have in mind This is a system for an illiterate population, remember when I talked about the bottom line being counting? the boards are just a simpler way of counting!!
 

Arrogance is word comes to my mind, as if each and every African or East African holds a university degree, or all have step a foot in school. You started to sound like broken record confine on little marbles and Gambian election. I told you African are too interdependent on western ideas, I think from your statement above it proves that. Western style democracy is not the only way Africans can focus there mind on, in fact many part of Africa western style democracy has proven to be difficult. And why is difficult? is because the process is too expensive to run on fragile African economies, without donation from the western backers, African can not afford to run full general election unless the system is changed. The last August Kenyan general election, IECB received $26 million in donation. The same election which was approved with flying colours by very donors now wearing the jacket of observers that it was The True Will Of The People And Credible (very laughable). If this is not a case of thinking out of the box when it comes to solving election and political issues, in terms of cost, transparency, and credibility, then won't know what is your argument.
 
Mwanzi1 said:
Arrogance is word comes to my mind, as if each and every African or East African holds a university degree, or all have step a foot in school.
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when they say Gambia has a high illiteracy rate, it means that the ratio of those that have not gone to school compared to those that have is very high, similarly when I say no East African is in this group means that the bigger population is learned.
Mwanzi1 said:
You started to sound like broken record confine on little marbles and Gambian election.
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You suggested the Gambian marble, I dismissed it as a system for illiterates, You thought I should learn how they do it, I said literates have no business learning a system for illiterates.
Let me assume by western style democracy you mean how the elections are conducted. you seem to miss a crucial point in your observations. In my earlier comments I asked you if you thought the marbles is what made the Gambian election transparent, I believe not. The failures of elections all over the world has never been because the systems are not indigenous, or say in Africa's case that the systems are western and they are not fit for Africa, the root of the problem has been inadequate preparation, corruption and incompetent staff.
It would not matter how you cast your vote, be it ballot papers, feathers, coins, marbles, pebbles or by queuing, so long as you have this three clouds hanging over the system, it will lack credibility and transparency whether the system is African, Western, Scandinavian... name it.
In the Kenyan case for example, hacking of the server was due to corruption, If not compromised, The staff was incompetent in failing to prevent infiltration.
 
Your argument about literacy doesn't hold water, because sometimes you might find solution to your problems on the places you least pay attention. With high literacy in East Africa, but we still produce huge number spoilt ballots. Compare that with only 2 spoilt ballot in Gambia for the past 30 years.

Apart from corruption and transparency which I'll talk about below, what about run away cost of East African elections. A good example is Kenyan August election, it cost tax payers $480 million to prepare and run that general election with 19.6 million eligible voters. UK has 46.5 million eligible voters, but the last general election in may 2017 they only spend £146 million ($192 million). If Kenya had to opt for Gambian style of voting, it could've only cost Kenya $20million.

Now lets talk about corruption and transparency. There is remedy to corruption which is stamp it out. We are the only continent in the world where we praise and hold in high regard corrupt people. You've said the Gambian election system isn't transparent, but what is your solution on election transparency in African? Our fellow Western world they've better infrastructure than us, they can afford to go to the remote places safely without a glitch. But in Africa anything can happen to the ballot box and ballot papers between a remote polling station and main electoral commission office. Take a look at video below, I would like to hear your ideas how Africa can have transparency on its elections.

 
On a broader perspective, the cause for spoilt ballots is not entirely due to illiteracy, there are those who prefer not to vote for a particular seat with reasons best known to them, and since they must be given the ballot paper, they decide to spoil it. You cant blame that on the system.
I believe acquiring the hardware is what made it that expensive and since the hardware are going to be used in subsequent elections it was a necessary investment.
Mwanzi1 said:
If Kenya had to opt for Gambian style of voting, it could've only cost Kenya $20million.
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In this case cheap would have been very expensive for Kenya in the long run if you were to take everything into account!
Mwanzi1 said:
You've said the Gambian election system isn't transparent,
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Are you mad?!! where did i say that?
Every jurisdiction has its own challenges and remedies, Gambia seems to have found her remedies and will probably move to another system if and when other challenges arise.
Mwanzi1 said:
Take a look at video below, I would like to hear your ideas how Africa can have transparency on its elections.
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Like I said earlier, a free, fair and credible election anywhere in the world lies in three things: a corruption free environment, Competent staff and adequate preparation. without these three things it would not matter whether you cast stone, pebbles, ballot papers, feathers or marbles as votes or whether its by queuing or electronic voting process. Elections will never be transparent without adequate preparation, competent staff and adherence to the rule of law.
 
I was hoping you'll come up with a bigger idea how Africa can tackle elections issues, but instead I got same old same old blame game, corruption, compitance staff, preparation. If we take Kenyan election for example which it cost 30x more per voter than India, or 3x more than USA, the money which could've been gone to improving human lives. I'm shocked that you actually supporting the runway cost Africans acquire when it comes to elections and politics instead of finding a better solution which are cost effective. This goes back to my original post that we African were becoming lezy and interdependent on outside help.

Anyway, your denying that you didn't question transparency on marbles election, please feel free to revisit your privous posts starting with number 49, 51, 58, 67. The second video clip I posted here, it briefly stated the words "It can not be rigged" bare in mind this is the same system produced the results which removed from office dictator Yahya Jammeh. Even himself accepted defeat before changes his mind.

Rather than blaming african for being corruption, compitance, unprepared. Why can't we have a system where no human can temper with, a system that all voters can see and participate on counting their ballots in record time. If we stay with Kenyan example, the country has spent million $$$'s on preparations, they still had to go to court to block IECB chairman not to alter any results. So if a country like Kenya has mistrust issues, why can they think out of the box and come up with a roboust system but also cost effective? The current system was not design with the challenges there facing now eg. repeat election. Because the system was created to be used in developed world, where trust isn't an issues, rigging isn't an issue, compitance isn't an issue either.
 
Kwa standard ya maisha hakuna utofauti kati ya mkenya na mtanzania, unaweza kuta mtu anasifia nchi yake iko mbele kimaendeleo ilhali yeye na familia yake mlo wa siku ni shida huu ni ujinga wa kiwango cha juu. Infact wajanja nowdays hawangaiki na stupidity ya wanasiasa tulionao mnatwangwa risasi kesho na keshokutwa wanavuka border kuja kuwa refugees kwa haohao majirani zenu
 
Oh for heaven's sake Mr Barbrosa, what on earth are your concerns? Kenyans should not demonstrate for their own rights? Damn, no wonder y'all praise dictatorship. Wake up man it's the 21st century, Helloo!!
 
Mwanzi1 said:
I was hoping you'll come up with a bigger idea how Africa can tackle elections issues, but instead I got same old same old blame game, corruption, compitance staff, preparation.
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You can run to the moon and back but facts will be facts!!! competent staff, adequate preparation and a corruption free environment is the backbone of any free fair election. not marbles!!!
If it could be done at a cheaper cost would be lovely but like i said before, need brings necessity. Kenyans due to their lack of trust in each other, their history not withstanding, wanted to stone wall their elections and that came at a cost it. It could have worked but they lacked my "three most important virtues" so the expensive hardware could only take them so far but all is not lost.
Mwanzi1 said:
Anyway, your denying that you didn't question transparency on marbles election,
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WHAT???!!! Your comprehension skills are that of a 6 year old!!! I will show you why if you can flow with me...
Mwanzi1 said:
But what is democracy? How can you have a true democracy without credible and transparent election process? One thing had come out of Gambian style election is the transparency, and with that the few or known election disputes.
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hydrogen said:
in your view the pebbles is what made it transparent?!
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Mwanzi1 said:
If Kenya had used the system like the one in Gambian, we wouldn't have all these uncertainty we see today.
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hydrogen said:
I noticed how you have conveniently avoided my question, but lets review.... in your view, is it the marble voting that made the election ''transparent?!''
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Mwanzi1 said:
BTW that system isn't new to them, they've been using it since 1962 with no major problems. I haven't come across any country around the world with only two spoilt ballots.
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hydrogen said:
please answer the damn question!
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Mwanzi1 said:
which question is that? About transparency? So why don't you familiarise yourself how the transparent that system is.
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Mwanzi1 said:
And YES it is so transparent even a child can do it,
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hydrogen said:
being simple such that a child can do it does not make it transparent my friend!!.
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Mwanzi1 said:
Instead of taking time and learn the Gambian system maybe there is room you could improve, you just dismiss it all together.
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I hope you followed and understood.
Mwanzi1 said:
Rather than blaming african for being corruption, compitance, unprepared.Why can't we have a system where no human can temper with, a system that all voters can see and participate on counting their ballots in record time.
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You are tackling the problem from end.... lets start with the basics first. corruption free, competent staff and adequate preparation!!
Mwanzi1 said:
The second video clip I posted here, it briefly stated the words "It can not be rigged".......... Why can't we have a system where no human can temper with
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These statements are naive if not stupid!! I can tell you for free, there is no such system in existence today or that will ever exist!!!
 
So what have you brought on the table here, recycling previous statements? Your not living by your name Hydrogen, it seems your running out of fuel.

You're the same person arguing that East Africa has higher level of literacy and yet East Africa is place where there riding difficult to produce credible elections due to (as you put it) incompitance, corruption, no free environment and luck of preparation. So where is that high in literary come into play, isn't that not supposed to be key ingredient produce a better election because your people are literate so you easily educated them?

Men, I'll urge you to read it through your last post and please enlight us if you've presented any solution to your own list of problems facing African elections (because that was main question). It's kind of funny because you're dismissing all other ideas without presenting yours.

Stop pussyfooting around real solutions, I really don't understand when I come across Africans who are quick to dismiss another African solution. South Africa has UBUNTU, white people copied and use it like theirs own, but Africans are busy buying (not even borrowing, buying) ideas from developed world. Rwanda have UMUGANDA, no one is even looking at it. Tanzania had African socialism, it was copied in Scotland and Sweden. Now Gambia they have election system they've used since 1960's, transparent, temper free and simple to the point. Yet your dismissing it because the idea of being created for illiterate people, kind of insulting to the entire country. In fact all elections around the world are created for all people illiterate or not.

Men oh men SMH.
 
Do you remember saying this?
Mwanzi1 said:
please feel free to revisit your privous posts starting with number 49, 51, 58, 67.
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now you say.....
Mwanzi1 said:
So what have you brought on the table here, recycling previous statements?
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forgetting its was in response to yet another one of your stupid comments!



Mwanzi1 said:
You're the same person arguing that East Africa has higher level of literacy............. So where is that high in literary come into play, isn't that not supposed to be key ingredient produce a better election
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Personalities are not taught in class, thats self acquired so stop that pedestrian argument!, its like saying learned people cant be corrupted


Mwanzi1 said:
please enlight us if you've presented any solution to your own list of problems facing African elections
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You are actually dumber than i thought!!! I have said it countless times or do I need to spell it out?! A-D-E-Q-U-A-T-E P-R-E-P-A-R-A-T-I-O-N, H-I-R-I-N-G O-F C-O-M-P-E-T-E-N-T S-T-A-F-F and F-O-L-L-O-W-I-N-G T-H-E L-A-W!!!! You definitely should be neutered!!!

Mwanzi1 said:
Stop pussyfooting around real solutions
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I know marbles is all you want! you can have your marbles.....

Mwanzi1 said:
I really don't understand when I come across Africans who are quick to dismiss another African solution.
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You sound like a toddler right now, and by the way Just stop with the inferiority complex! a solution is a solution period! be it western, Asian, Caribbean, Pacific...... it really doesn't matter so long as it solves the intended problem timely and effectively. Sugar coating with an African title to gain favor is absurd!!!
Mwanzi1 said:
Now Gambia they have election system they've used since 1960's, transparent, temper free and simple to the point. Yet your dismissing it because the idea of being created for illiterate people, kind of insulting to the entire country.
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Its common knowledge to most rational people that any system is as good as its operator, which means that the best system in the world with a rouge operator will always produce rouge results. Africa's biggest problem is rouge operators. and YES Gambia on AVERAGE is illiterate! you can tell pope I said it!!
 
Haha, we're getting somewhere. The level of frustration you're presenting here is divine. I bet your questing yourself why did I put myself into this?

Debate is something you do with your commonsense,with your composure intact, with facts to back you up. Non of that came from your end, all I'm getting is someone with one foot out of the door. Just like Donald Trump

Right from the start, you couldn't even put your case together, you just fumble your way around with some nonsense comments, recycle here 'n' there with no concert evidence that all African elections are runned by people who are incompetence, corrupt, and ill prepared. FYI most of those electoral commission are run by Judges, lawyers, senior administrators people who they know what there doing. But all you could come up with, is some silly comments that ....its OK, Africa can go on spending millions $$$ do things which are not working. Really? Is that the best you got? Sheeeeeeit (Baltimore style).
 
Mwanzi1 said:
Haha, we're getting somewhere. The level of frustration you're presenting here is divine. I bet your questing yourself why did I put myself into this?
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Thank you, Am glad you noticed my frustrations, You don't know what its like to try and reason with someone who reasons like a 6 year old. Its very frustrating I tell you!
Mwanzi1 said:
Debate is something you do with your commonsense,with your composure intact, with facts to back you up. Non of that came from your end, all I'm getting is someone with one foot out of the door. Just like Donald Trump
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Ironic you should mention common sense.....
Take time to internalize the MEANING of what i say before you comment, coz your comprehension skills is in the dustbin!! sometimes its like you are a discussing with yourself!! Though I try, I cannot force you to understand things that are beyond the scope of your reasoning.
Judges, lawyers and senior administrators might only foot the competence bill. They will still have to promptly prepare and have morals to follow the laid down laws.
To you, this might be rocket science but let me give you an example If at all you can get your head around it!!
If a rich person was to live in a bad neighborhood, He is definitely going to spend far more to secure his home for the same level of security than if he was living in the suburbs. Most African countries are in the same predicament, with corruption entrenched so deep in the system it becomes necessary to spend a lot more to try and safeguard that vote.
This means that cost isn't the problem, corruption is. The cost is trying to solve corruption.
Does this make any sense to you at all?!!!!
 
I'm sorry to say, but this kind of mentality is what is drugging Africa down. This is why we see more n more African citizens wish they could have a leader like Magufuli, the leader who questions each and everything if it worth the price. I can't imagine you just say because of corruption, the cost of doing things doesn't matter, and you expect the future generation will thank you? Wow, I was expecting more from someone with wider thinking scope like you (roll eyes).
 
In plain simple English, you are a fool!!!
 
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