Kuelekea Shirikisho la kisiasa la Afrika Mashariki, tumejifunza nini from #Brexit?

[Cicero]

Kuna kamsemo ka wazungu kanasema "A wise man learns from the mistakes of others". Tutakuwa wapumbavu tukirudia makosa yaleyale yaliyofanywa na waanzilishi wa Umoja wa Ulaya (EU). Je, kuna lolote tulilojifunza kutoka kwa Brexit na pili, ule mzozo wa kiuchumi uliolikumba taifa la Ugiriki na hivi sasa unatishia kuiangusha Italia? Kumbuka hizo ni nchi kongwe zenye influence kubwa duniani zinashindwa kuendesha umoja wa fedha; sisi ndio kwanza tuko mbioni kuanzisha wakwetu!
From various sources, these are some of the key lessons;

1. Nationalism is still alive and well in the contemporary world and is a key political force.
2. The more democratic we become, the harder it will be to form an EAC federation. Consulting people about sharing sovereignty never works!
3. Political projects only succeed if there is a need for them, not if they are borne out of mere goodwill
4. Integration must work for ALL of East Africa; it must be fair and inclusive
5. MIGRATION. How to deal with that elephant in the room once free movement of goods, capital, labour and services is achieved

More............

 

[Quickly]

Kwa mujibu wa ripoti za habari mbali mbali na takwimu, naona EAC linavuma kuliko shirikisho zingine barani. Changamoto lazima, afterall ni kitu kilichoumbwa na watu. Tatizo kuu ni usuaji wenu majirani wa kusini.

 

[MK254]

EAC ipo kwa ajili watu wake wenyewe wanafanya biashara na kutangamana bila kutegemea serikali za nchi husika. Wengi tunapiga biashara na kuwa na mahusiano mazuri, in fact baadhi ya serikali zenyewe ndizo zinatchelewesha kwa kuonekana kuhimiza watu wake waishi kwa chuki na majungu.

Binafsi nashauri tusiungane kisiasa, ila tuendelee kuhusiana kwenye masuala mengine hususan ya kibiashara. Hilo la kuungana kisiasa litaleta mtafaruku usiofaa maana kuna baadhi ya nchi ambazo zipo bora zaidi ya zingine, na itakua vigumu kuwiana. Halafu pia ukiangalia hata muungano wa Zanzibar na Tanzania bara umekaa kiusanii, vigumu sana kuuelewa.

Nimekua pale Zanzibar, nilishangaa sana kwamba Mtanzania wa kutokea bara haruhusiwi kuendesha gari hadi alipie pale ZRB kama wageni wengine wote kutokea nchi za nje. Akikamatwa na askari wa usalama barabarani anaweza akashtakiwa. Pia magari ya Zanzibar kuingia Tanzania bara yanalipia hela nyingi kishenzi. Au pia nauli ya Mkenya kama unatokea Tanzania bara inakua gharama kuingia Zanzibar, wakati una paspoti inayokuruhusu kusafiri maeneo yote ndani ya Tanzania. Hiyo ni mifano michache tu ya jinsi muungano baina ya Tanganyika na Zanzibar umekaa kiusanii.

Sasa ikiwa hao ambao wote hujiita Watanzania lakini wanashindwa kuungana bila usanii usanii, itakuaje kwenye muungano baina yetu sote ambao ndio kabisa hatupendani.

Tuishie tu kwenye biashara, unaingia nchi ya jirani, fanya yako na kugeuza, tuachane na mengine kabisa.

 

[Cicero]

EAC ipo kwa ajili watu wake wenyewe wanafanya biashara na kutangamana bila kutegemea serikali za nchi husika. Wengi tunapiga biashara na kuwa na mahusiano mazuri, in fact baadhi ya serikali zenyewe ndizo zinatchelewesha kwa kuonekana kuhimiza watu wake waishi kwa chuki na majungu.

Binafsi nashauri tusiungane kisiasa, ila tuendelee kuhusiana kwenye masuala mengine hususan ya kibiashara. Hilo la kuungana kisiasa litaleta mtafaruku usiofaa maana kuna baadhi ya nchi ambazo zipo bora zaidi ya zingine, na itakua vigumu kuwiana. Halafu pia ukiangalia hata muungano wa Zanzibar na Tanzania bara umekaa kiusanii, vigumu sana kuuelewa.

Nimekua pale Zanzibar, nilishangaa sana kwamba Mtanzania wa kutokea bara haruhusiwi kuendesha gari hadi alipie pale ZRB kama wageni wengine wote kutokea nchi za nje. Akikamatwa na askari wa usalama barabarani anaweza akashtakiwa. Pia magari ya Zanzibar kuingia Tanzania bara yanalipia hela nyingi kishenzi. Au pia nauli ya Mkenya kama unatokea Tanzania bara inakua gharama kuingia Zanzibar, wakati una paspoti inayokuruhusu kusafiri maeneo yote ndani ya Tanzania. Hiyo ni mifano michache tu ya jinsi muungano baina ya Tanganyika na Zanzibar umekaa kiusanii.

Sasa ikiwa hao ambao wote hujiita Watanzania lakini wanashindwa kuungana bila usanii usanii, itakuaje kwenye muungano baina yetu sote ambao ndio kabisa hatupendani.

Tuishie tu kwenye biashara, unaingia nchi ya jirani, fanya yako na kugeuza, tuachane na mengine kabisa.

My first time in Zanzibar was epic. I got a sneak preview of what a federation looks like, although Tanzania is not really a federal state.
To explain why you had to pay extra; there is free movement of TANZANIANS within TANZANIA, but not of foreigners. I imagine Kenyans or Ugandans will be free to come to Tanzania, lakini Msomali aliye Kenya hataweza kuingia Tanzania freely.
I think all that ni ushamba tu you'd never been to a federal country before, so it was an eye opening experience. I am told hata marekani number plates za magari ni tofauti from state to state, yet marekani ni nchi moja. In the UK, nasikia kuna some regions waingereza wenyewe hawaruhusiwi kwenda kuishi unless if they are working. Once you retire, unarudi kwenu. In Nigeria, people from one state are not allowed to join the civil service of another state, yet nchi ni moja. In short, tutakuwa na citizenship on two levels, state and federal. Kwenye mambo yasiyo ya muungano Zanzibaris are Zanzibaris and Mainlanders are mainlanders, lakini kwenye masuala ya muungano we are one, Tanzanians. Nakumbuka Zanzibar jeshi la polisi na JWTZ ni moja na la bara (defense and security is a union affair), same currency pia na bara etc

 

[Cicero]

Kwa mujibu wa ripoti za habari mbali mbali na takwimu, naona EAC linavuma kuliko shirikisho zingine barani. Changamoto lazima, afterall ni kitu kilichoumbwa na watu. Tatizo kuu ni usuaji wenu majirani wa kusini.

Bottomline ni kwamba kila mtu analitaka shirikisho. Tatizo ni kasi ya kufikia hatua hiyo. Sisi tunataka mtangamano huu uende hatua kwa hatua ilhali nyie mwataka kuharakisha mambo!

 

[MK254]

My first time in Zanzibar was epic. I got a sneak preview of what a federation looks like, although Tanzania is not really a federal state.
To explain why you had to pay extra; there is free movement of TANZANIANS within TANZANIA, but not of foreigners. I imagine Kenyans or Ugandans will be free to come to Tanzania, lakini Msomali aliye Kenya hataweza kuingia Tanzania freely.
I think all that ni ushamba tu you'd never been to a federal country before, so it was an eye opening experience. I am told hata marekani number plates za magari ni tofauti from state to state, yet marekani ni nchi moja. In the UK, nasikia kuna some regions waingereza wenyewe hawaruhusiwi kwenda kuishi unless if they are working. Once you retire, unarudi kwenu. In Nigeria, people from one state are not allowed to join the civil service of another state, yet nchi ni moja. In short, tutakuwa na citizenship on two levels, state and federal. Kwenye mambo yasiyo ya muungano Zanzibaris are Zanzibaris and Mainlanders are mainlanders, lakini kwenye masuala ya muungano we are one, Tanzanians. Nakumbuka Zanzibar jeshi la polisi na JWTZ ni moja na la bara (defense and security is a union affair), same currency pia na bara etc

So what's that thing you call the union between Tanganyika and Zanzibar, I mean doesn't make sense in any way I look at it.
When landing into Tanzania, our passports get stamped and we are allowed to travel anywhere within the whole republic, but quoting a different fare for our entry into some region or union or federal or whatever you call it, simply doesn't add up. I'd understand if am required to pay differently if engaging in business, or other income generating activity, but being charged higher for a mere visit to some areas within the same republic is quite strange.

Such complexities just makes it harder to relate.

 

[Kambalanick]

The EAC should remain as it is, no political partnership... and I am so against a single currency unless the rest of the EAC adopt Kenya's fiscal policies and monetary position, which is impossible looking at the gap. I can not imagine using a currency trading with the dollar in its thousands.
A political partnership maybe with a rotational leadership, different tax agencies, and everything to do with economic policies...the leader should be a ceremonial leader, as I would expect each nation to have its president.
Why all this hustle...when we can just strengthen the economic partnership we have, have policies that support regional trade and easy movement of people.
I am sure we can handle it to that level because we are still so suspicious of each other.

 

[Cicero]

The EAC should remain as it is, no political partnership... and I am so against a single currency unless the rest of the EAC adopt Kenya's fiscal policies and monetary position, which is impossible looking at the gap. I can not imagine using a currency trading with the dollar in its thousands.
A political partnership maybe with a rotational leadership, different tax agencies, and everything to do with economic policies...the leader should be a ceremonial leader, as I would expect each nation to have its president.
Why all this hustle...when we can just strengthen the economic partnership we have, have policies that support regional trade and easy movement of people.
I am sure we can handle it to that level because we are still so suspicious of each other.

On the fiscal and monetary positions, i think you need a class on the proposed monetary union. The proposed EA currency will be much stronger than the existing EAC currencies. Alafu how do you have a monetary union without fiscal regime harmonization? Methinks kutakuwa na kodi za shirikisho plus kodi za nchi mwanachama. The EA revenue authority will just have the mandate of collecting federal taxes.
Of course kila nchi itabaki na rais na serikali yake.....we are not dissolving away the member states! The federal government will only deal with federal matters kama defence and security of the federation, foreign affairs, international trade e.t.c.
Sasa on the federal presidency being rotational i don't support. We should have an integrated political space with political parties forming crossnational alliances and being able to rally behind single candidates for the federal presidency! Of late tumeona Kenyatta-Lowassa and Magufuli-Odinga-Museveni alliances. Such are good initiatives. Hivi vyama vyenye similar ideologies vikae chini na kuunda alliances kama hizo!

 

[Kambalanick]

On the fiscal and monetary positions, i think you need a class on the proposed monetary union. The proposed EA currency will be much stronger than the existing EAC currencies. Alafu how do you have a monetary union without fiscal regime harmonization? Methinks kutakuwa na kodi za shirikisho plus kodi za nchi mwanachama. The EA revenue authority will just have the mandate of collecting federal taxes.
Of course kila nchi itabaki na rais na serikali yake.....we are not dissolving away the member states! The federal government will only deal with federal matters kama defence and security of the federation, foreign affairs, international trade e.t.c.
Sasa on the federal presidency being rotational i don't support. We should have an integrated political space with political parties forming crossnational alliances and being able to rally behind single candidates for the federal presidency! Of late tumeona Kenyatta-Lowassa and Magufuli-Odinga-Museveni alliances. Such are good initiatives. Hivi vyama vyenye similar ideologies vikae chini na kuunda alliances kama hizo!

Please inform me how the community intends to make the EAC currency stronger than 100shs to the dollar...and we have nothing like ideologies in our community's parties...the manifestos are just a copy of each other. The ideas are not that different. please inform me though because am so worried, I think that is the main reason the last EAC broke apart according to our perspective, we felt we were working for y'all.

 

[MK254]

I like this discourse, lets keep it meaningful, insightful and thought-provoking.

 

[Cicero]

Please inform me how the community intends to make the EAC currency stronger than 100shs to the dollar...and we have nothing like ideologies in our community's parties...the manifestos are just a copy of each other. The ideas are not that different. please inform me though because am so worried, I think that is the main reason the last EAC broke apart according to our perspective, we felt we were working for y'all.

There is an annual forum for political parties in the EAC where they get to meet and discuss various issues. Believe it or not, they do have ideologies, albeit on paper. Liberals, conservatives, Pragmatic, Christian, Social Democrats etc. Wote hao wapo.
There is also an annual forum for electoral commissions, registrars of political parties, chief justices and speakers.
Not to mention the protocols on foreign policy coordination, defense and security and good governance. The East African Bill of Rights.
Kiukweli, proper groundwork has been done. Tatizo, there is not enough awareness about it amongst the public.
I support the idea that the federal president shouldn't be overly strong like in a presidential system (For example the American model). We should have alongside him a Prime Minister appointed by the federal parliament. This balance of power between the President, Prime Minister (cabinet) and Parliament will bring about much needed stability!

 

[bongo-live]

A currency union in the EAC will be attractive as it will provide a more stable currency in terms of purchasing power, while currency volatility and fluctuation will be minimised. A common currency can eliminate transaction costs, quicken cross-border payments and make investments and the movement of people more viable.

One of the main factors which has hampered Africa’s economic progress over the years has been the very small scale of intra-regional trade, currently only about 12%. Therefore, given the relatively small size of individual economies, currency harmonisation could play a very significant role in increasing intra-African trade.As regards to a political union, i think we should go slow on that front.

 

[IAfrika]

There are lessons to be learnt from #Brexit, but let's be careful so that we don't learn the wrong lessons.

To avoid learning the wrong lessons we need to establish the things we should and those that we should not. We already know want, we all want free trade, to have free trade we need free movement of goods, persons, services and capital. This is where the problem begins, a good number of poeple want to choose what amongst free movement of goods, persons, services and capital to have and what not have. The people that have #Brexit tendencies are in this category. They want to sell goods and services to other countries but develop anti-immigration feelings on seeing "foreigners" from other countries working in your country. Well every country is guilty of this, even the mighty Britain didn't like when they saw people from other European countries coming to work in their country. The same can happen to Kenya when youth from Kenya see youth from Rwanda take up their hairdressing jobs in Nairobi. That's if they do see the bigger picture of the four components we are involved in here. When you pick and choose amongst these four components, you bring about economic discrepancies and trade imbalances that will cause political upheavals.
It is easy to see that you are either all in or all out in this EAC project. Given that free trade is what everyone wants and that it must involve free movement of goods, persons, services and capital, the question is how do we go about it without stepping on any nationalism toes?
Free movement of persons is the most sensitive among the four components of a single market. This is the case in the most civilized country in the world Britain(the main cause #Brexit) and even here in East Africa. This is followed by free movement of goods. Here in East Africa there was another sensitive issue of land but that was dealt with by categorizing it as a state issue.
EAC will only make progress if attention is paid to the things that are making other unions including the former EAC collapse. We tried managing the free movement of people here in EAC through unelected boards and a secretariat and it didn't work so well. Free movement of people can only be governed by peoples direct representatives and not by business councils or a Secretariat. My suggestion is that full implementation of free movement of persons should be postponed until when a Political Federation is achieved. It is through the Political Federation that we will get peoples direct representatives to manage the politics of free trade and govern the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital. Should we continue to push for everything under the single market to be implemented and governed by a Summit or a Secretariat that has not been directly elected by the entire East Africa population to govern the entire East Africa then we risk the entire EAC altogether. This is the predicament that Europe faces when they say "we want to take back our country." Critical political and sovereign decisions in EU are being made by EU commissions and councils that are not elected directly by the people therefore their voices are not heard and they don't have EU elections where they can directly choose an EU wide government to run the affairs of EU.

EAC has came up with The Monetary Union to enhance trade in East Africa. However a Monetary Union has the effect of market fundamentalism of transferring wealth from smaller economies to bigger economies. The case in point here is Greece that has been financially ruined by eurozone Monetary Union. To avoid these effects of market fundamentalism we need an equalizer through a constitution of a Political Federation clearly demarcating the boundaries of power between partner States and Federal government and how resources and revenues will be shared equitably.

A well structured Federal constitution will give people direct powers over the entire federation through elections where they will choose Their
President, Senate and House of Representatives to govern the federation. Such a constitution should ensure the separation of powers between Constituent States and Federal government to preserve the identity, heritage and culture of the individual states.

 

[Kambalanick]

A currency union in the EAC will be attractive as it will provide a more stable currency in terms of purchasing power, while currency volatility and fluctuation will be minimised. A common currency can eliminate transaction costs, quicken cross-border payments and make investments and the movement of people more viable.

One of the main factors which has hampered Africa’s economic progress over the years has been the very small scale of intra-regional trade, currently only about 12%. Therefore, given the relatively small size of individual economies, currency harmonisation could play a very significant role in increasing intra-African trade.As regards to a political union, i think we should go slow on that front.

NO to a single currency until we have relatively strong economies in the community... I am sure it worked in EU because they already had stable economies. The purchasing power in our region is quite low if quantified regionally, it has started to rise in Kenya with the increase in middle class. We are still worried about external and internal shocks, look at Burundi, South Sudan...even Kenya and Uganda suffer from this election fever. Let us deal with our internal democracies, have a stable region, diversify our economies and markets such that we are able to move comfortably despite international situations. Am sure we are doing this in Kenya,Uganda,Tanzania, and Rwanda, but still weak. Again in a single currency a situation in for instance s.sudanwill make our currency plummet, same situation to any country..keep in mind we will be open to new neighbours as a region, who we know to have had problems.

 

[Cicero]

There are lessons to be learnt from #Brexit, but let's be careful so that we don't learn the wrong lessons.

To avoid learning the wrong lessons we need to establish the things we should and those that we should not. We already know want, we all want free trade, to have free trade we need free movement of goods, persons, services and capital. This is where the problem begins, a good number of poeple want to choose what amongst free movement of goods, persons, services and capital to have and what not have. The people that have #Brexit tendencies are in this category. They want to sell goods and services to other countries but develop anti-immigration feelings on seeing "foreigners" from other countries working in your country. Well every country is guilty of this, even the mighty Britain didn't like when they saw people from other European countries coming to work in their country. The same can happen to Kenya when youth from Kenya see youth from Rwanda take up their hairdressing jobs in Nairobi. That's if they do see the bigger picture of the four components we are involved in here. When you pick and choose amongst these four components, you bring about economic discrepancies and trade imbalances that will cause political upheavals.
It is easy to see that you are either all in or all out in this EAC project. Given that free trade is what everyone wants and that it must involve free movement of goods, persons, services and capital, the question is how do we go about it without stepping on any nationalism toes?
Free movement of persons is the most sensitive among the four components of a single market. This is the case in the most civilized country in the world Britain(the main cause #Brexit) and even here in East Africa. This is followed by free movement of goods. Here in East Africa there was another sensitive issue of land but that was dealt with by categorizing it as a state issue.
EAC will only make progress if attention is paid to the things that are making other unions including the former EAC collapse. We tried managing the free movement of people here in EAC through unelected boards and a secretariat and it didn't work so well. Free movement of people can only be governed by peoples direct representatives and not by business councils or a Secretariat. My suggestion is that full implementation of free movement of persons should be postponed until when a Political Federation is achieved. It is through the Political Federation that we will get peoples direct representatives to manage the politics of free trade and govern the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital. Should we continue to push for everything under the single market to be implemented and governed by a Summit or a Secretariat that has not been directly elected by the entire East Africa population to govern the entire East Africa then we risk the entire EAC altogether. This is the predicament that Europe faces when they say "we want to take back our country." Critical political and sovereign decisions in EU are being made by EU commissions and councils that are not elected directly by the people therefore their voices are not heard and they don't have EU elections where they can directly choose an EU wide government to run the affairs of EU.

EAC has came up with The Monetary Union to enhance trade in East Africa. However a Monetary Union has the effect of market fundamentalism of transferring wealth from smaller economies to bigger economies. The case in point here is Greece that has been financially ruined by eurozone Monetary Union. To avoid these effects of market fundamentalism we need an equalizer through a constitution of a Political Federation clearly demarcating the boundaries of power between partner States and Federal government and how resources and revenues will be shared equitably.

A well structured Federal constitution will give people direct powers over the entire federation through elections where they will choose Their
President, Senate and House of Representatives to govern the federation. Such a constitution should ensure the separation of powers between Constituent States and Federal government to preserve the identity, heritage and culture of the individual states.

I salute you comrade IAfrika
A few issues.
One, are you saying that the political federation should come first?
Two, how can we have a monetary union without free movement of people? People need to be free to move within the single East African economy in response to various shocks as they may arise within the partner states. Remember that Britain was neither a member of the eurozone nor of schengen, so it was easy for her to pull out.
Lastly, i think if EALA members were directly elected like the way members of the european parliament are perhaps it would help?
What will set the ball rolling is the unveiling of the draft constitution of the federation. I dont know why its taking so long!

 

[Iconoclastes]

Kuna kamsemo ka wazungu kanasema "A wise man learns from the mistakes of others". Tutakuwa wapumbavu tukirudia makosa yaleyale yaliyofanywa na waanzilishi wa Umoja wa Ulaya (EU). Je, kuna lolote tulilojifunza kutoka kwa Brexit na pili, ule mzozo wa kiuchumi uliolikumba taifa la Ugiriki na hivi sasa unatishia kuiangusha Italia? Kumbuka hizo ni nchi kongwe zenye influence kubwa duniani zinashindwa kuendesha umoja wa fedha; sisi ndio kwanza tuko mbioni kuanzisha wakwetu!
From various sources, these are some of the key lessons;

1. Nationalism is still alive and well in the contemporary world and is a key political force.
2. The more democratic we become, the harder it will be to form an EAC federation. Consulting people about sharing sovereignty never works!
3. Political projects only succeed if there is a need for them, not if they are borne out of mere goodwill
4. Integration must work for ALL of East Africa; it must be fair and inclusive
5. MIGRATION. How to deal with that elephant in the room once free movement of goods, capital, labour and services is achieved

More............

Now, these are the factors that have caused growing resentment by many Europeans towards the EU. In fact, the following are the reasons why the British voted for Brexit


1. Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other nations.

2. Freedom to spend UK resources presently through EU membership in the UK to the advantage of the citizens.

3. Freedom to control British national borders.

4. Freedom to restore Britain’s special legal system.

5. Freedom to deregulate the EU’s costly mass of laws.

6. Freedom to make major savings for British consumers.

7. Freedom to improve the British economy and generate more jobs.

8. Freedom to regenerate Britain’s fisheries.

9. Freedom to save the NHS from EU threats to undermine it by harmonising healthcare across the EU, and to reduce welfare payments to non-UK EU citizens.

10. Freedom to restore British customs and traditions.

Many citizens within the EU loathe the union cos of the feeling that it is a one behemoth beauracracy that exists to unnecessarily restricts certain freedoms and rights of the member countries, and also to bully the smaller countries abroad thru unfair trade deals. A member state lacks its sovereign right to make a great deal of decisions on issues pertaining to their country's interests, for the EU's restrictive laws would always be on the way to interfere.

Now regarding the following proposals which u have talked about here in glowing terms apparently:

There is an annual forum for political parties in the EAC where they get to meet and discuss various issues. Believe it or not, they do have ideologies, albeit on paper. Liberals, conservatives, Pragmatic, Christian, Social Democrats etc. Wote hao wapo.
There is also an annual forum for electoral commissions, registrars of political parties, chief justices and speakers.
Not to mention the protocols on foreign policy coordination, defense and security and good governance. The East African Bill of Rights.
Kiukweli, proper groundwork has been done. Tatizo, there is not enough awareness about it amongst the public.
I support the idea that the federal president shouldn't be overly strong like in a presidential system (For example the American model). We should have alongside him a Prime Minister appointed by the federal parliament. This balance of power between the President, Prime Minister (cabinet) and Parliament will bring about much needed stability!

I think the EAC is then trying to model itself as the EU, and with this, it is bound to make the very mistakes that have caused the EU's growing unpopularity in Europe.This could be bad mistake, it should be thot thru with a clear mind.
The EAC should solely exist as an economic partnership btwn the member countries. There shouldnt even exist any such considerations for a common currency, a single political unit, one visa etc. Not now, grafting such ideas from the EU into the EAC. It is not panning out there. There are no guarantees it will pan out here.

Should a political or economic trouble arise in any of the countries (ie the Greece debt crisis in the EU), would the other countries be willing to step in and participate in bearing the baggage? See how the EAC countries are gingerly handling the crises in Burundi and South Sudan? But with a political federation, they will be bound by the EAC set laws to shoulder the troubles of the other member states, even though they have their own problems to deal with.
I also dont see how the idea of a common currency would be practicable at the moment, given the uneven economic growth and development betwn these EAC countries. That idea should be shelved for now.

 

[Cicero]

Now, these are the factors that have caused growing resentment by many Europeans towards the EU. In fact, the following are the reasons why the British voted for Brexit


1. Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other nations.

2. Freedom to spend UK resources presently through EU membership in the UK to the advantage of the citizens.

3. Freedom to control British national borders.

4. Freedom to restore Britain’s special legal system.

5. Freedom to deregulate the EU’s costly mass of laws.

6. Freedom to make major savings for British consumers.

7. Freedom to improve the British economy and generate more jobs.

8. Freedom to regenerate Britain’s fisheries.

9. Freedom to save the NHS from EU threats to undermine it by harmonising healthcare across the EU, and to reduce welfare payments to non-UK EU citizens.

10. Freedom to restore British customs and traditions.

Many citizens within the EU loathe the union cos of the feeling that it is a one behemoth beauracracy that exists to unnecessarily restricts certain freedoms and rights of the country within the EU and also to bully the smaller countries abroad. A member state lacks its sovereign right to make decisions on issues pertaining their country, for the EU's restrictive laws would always be there to interfere.

Now regarding the following proposals which u have talked about here:



I think the EAC is then trying to model itself as the EU, and with this, it is bound to make the very mistakes that have caused the EU's growing unpopularity in Europe.
The EAC should solely exist as an economic partnership btwn the member countries. There shouldnt even exist any such considerations for a common currency, a single political unit, one visa etc.
Should a political or economic trouble arise in any of the countries (ie the Greece debt crisis in the EU), would the other countries be willing to step in and participate in bearing the baggage? See how the EAC countries are gingerly handling the crises in Burundi and South Sudan? But with a political federation, they will be bound by the EAC set laws to shoulder the troubles of the other member states, even though they have their own problems to deal with.
I also dont see how the idea of a common currency would be practicable at the moment, given the uneven economic growth and development betwn these EAC countries. That idea should be shelved for now.

Boss, as regards the monetary union, the EAC has actually learnt some valuable lessons from the euro crisis. As part of the preparatory groundwork, the EAC aims to establish an East AFrican Statistics Bureau, which will collect all economic and other relevant data from the member states and thus the East African Central Bank will be able to closely and almost independently monitor monetary and fiscal trends in the member states. This means that a potential crisis will be detected long before it actually strikes, and can be averted. In Europe, I am told that the European Central Bank depended on the member states for statistics, which meant that they could easily make up dataand give to the bank. Greece for instance lied about its external debts for years until they could no longer lie!

 

[Iconoclastes]

Boss, as regards the monetary union, the EAC has actually learnt some valuable lessons from the euro crisis. As part of the preparatory groundwork, the EAC aims to establish an East AFrican Statistics Bureau, which will collect all economic and other relevant data from the member states and thus the East African Central Bank will be able to closely and almost independently monitor monetary and fiscal trends in the member states. This means that a potential crisis will be detected long before it actually strikes, and can be averted. In Europe, I am told that the European Central Bank depended on the member states for statistics, which meant that they could easily make up dataand give to the bank. Greece for instance lied about its external debts for years until they could no longer lie!

I think measures are always in place to avert potential financial crisis. They still occur, nevertheless. Whatever the measures proposed for the EAC... they cant be foolproof.

 

[IAfrika]

I salute you comrade IAfrika
A few issues.
One, are you saying that the political federation should come first?
Two, how can we have a monetary union without free movement of people? People need to be free to move within the single East African economy in response to various shocks as they may arise within the partner states. Remember that Britain was neither a member of the eurozone nor of schengen, so it was easy for her to pull out.
Lastly, i think if EALA members were directly elected like the way members of the european parliament are perhaps it would help?
What will set the ball rolling is the unveiling of the draft constitution of the federation. I dont know why its taking so long!

The coming into force of both a Political Federation if any or Monetary Union is most likely to happen in about 10 years from now. Between now and then EAC will encounter the same upheavals that Europe is having. The main issue here being recentment towards immigrants because of free movement of people. I am for free movement of people if it is done in a way that does not endanger progress or EAC itself. Like restrictions on work permits can be eased off after the Federal Constitution has been voted on when people know how the future EAC will look like not just assuming the worst case scenario. These includes knowing the bounderies of power when it comes to Federal and State governments and people having the power to directly elect those governing them whether it is at EAC or state level. I believe East Africans will support a Political Federation idea if it is them who have power over it.

Sensitizing people about EAC is important so that they know and own their project. Having EALA directly elected by the East African public is the best way to do this. The EALA will have the power to vote on a draft constitution that can be sent to the public for a referendum.

Yeah! The people to draft the constitution are supposed to have been chosen by now, but I don't know what's taking them long!

 

[IAfrika]

Now, these are the factors that have caused growing resentment by many Europeans towards the EU. In fact, the following are the reasons why the British voted for Brexit


1. Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other nations.

2. Freedom to spend UK resources presently through EU membership in the UK to the advantage of the citizens.

3. Freedom to control British national borders.

4. Freedom to restore Britain’s special legal system.

5. Freedom to deregulate the EU’s costly mass of laws.

6. Freedom to make major savings for British consumers.

7. Freedom to improve the British economy and generate more jobs.

8. Freedom to regenerate Britain’s fisheries.

9. Freedom to save the NHS from EU threats to undermine it by harmonising healthcare across the EU, and to reduce welfare payments to non-UK EU citizens.

10. Freedom to restore British customs and traditions.

Many citizens within the EU loathe the union cos of the feeling that it is a one behemoth beauracracy that exists to unnecessarily restricts certain freedoms and rights of the member countries, and also to bully the smaller countries abroad thru unfair trade deals. A member state lacks its sovereign right to make a great deal of decisions on issues pertaining to their country's interests, for the EU's restrictive laws would always be on the way to interfere.

Now regarding the following proposals which u have talked about here in glowing terms apparently:



I think the EAC is then trying to model itself as the EU, and with this, it is bound to make the very mistakes that have caused the EU's growing unpopularity in Europe.This could be bad mistake, it should be thot thru with a clear mind.
The EAC should solely exist as an economic partnership btwn the member countries. There shouldnt even exist any such considerations for a common currency, a single political unit, one visa etc. Not now, grafting such ideas from the EU into the EAC. It is not panning out there. There are no guarantees it will pan out here.

Should a political or economic trouble arise in any of the countries (ie the Greece debt crisis in the EU), would the other countries be willing to step in and participate in bearing the baggage? See how the EAC countries are gingerly handling the crises in Burundi and South Sudan? But with a political federation, they will be bound by the EAC set laws to shoulder the troubles of the other member states, even though they have their own problems to deal with.
I also dont see how the idea of a common currency would be practicable at the moment, given the uneven economic growth and development betwn these EAC countries. That idea should be shelved for now.

We need the monetary union to facilitate free trade but if we only have a monetary union and not a political union the problems Europe is facing will dawn on EAC and we will have another collapse. A monetary union alone according to one don (and I will lift that report here), has the effect of market fundamentalism of transferring wealth from small economies to bigger economies. A good political federation will be the one now too ensure that benefits of the Union are shared out equitably in the federation like through a revenue sharing formular.

Britain's main problem like you have listed there is that it does not have a constitution that limited the powers of a foreign body like EU. That is why the public felt that things that should be left alone for Britain to determine were being determined in Brussels and not in London. They could not go to the same European court and seek to take their country back so they chose a referendum.