Mombasa port was a security guarantee needed for Kenya to secure Chinese' SGR finances

Geza Ulole said:

Bagamoyo port can't be compared to Mombasa port as it hasn't been built already! It is an investment i.e. we have let the Sovereignty fund of Oman and China Merchants Holdings International (CMHI) build on their won cost! Neither dar nor tanga nor Mtwara ports will be part of this as collateral. understand the difference.

Click to expand...

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Makes it simple for him, Tell him that the land is leased to the chinese to build whatever they want at their own cost and operate it. If they fail well too bad, lease must be paid still.

Click to expand...

its almost no different.... See assuming that its true that Msa was signed off as security guanrantee... If the chinies were to take over, they wont own the port and all its equipment. ..They will just take over the running of the port and run it for a couple of years...and in those years, all the profits will go to them...but they will still pay taxes and levy and everything else just like any organization private or public.... After they pay back their loan then the port reverts back to the owner.... last year the port Generated $350million to the government, paying even $10B would take less than 15-20 years...




As for the bagamoyo port, you are giving them 100% ownership for 99 years...or as you might like to call it..lease...In those 99 years they can do whatever they want....The govt will get its tax and land rate just like any institution pays taxes... While this might seem like a good idea at this moment because its a free $10B investment ... but they will own probably the single largest port in Africa... Dar and Tanga port (which are ports belonging to the pwople of Tz) will be rendered obsolete! Most of the goods or shipping line come from Asia where china is king, they will all shift to Bagamoyo and Tz will have no say in it.. infact you might even encourage them at first... but later you will do the math and realise, the service fee which you used to get in dar port goes to the chinese, the port charges will go to the chinese, landi fee to the chinese.... And they would be taking the profits back to China, the only think they will leave you is tax...

It would have been much better if You had just accepted the $10B investment as a loan in a model where the chinese finance, build, operate for a period to get back all their money plus intrest and then eventually and gradually give tz ownership of the port... but in this case they will own it forever!

Imagin if Kenya had not taken a loan but instead let china build the SGR and own it forever, and suffere losses or profits on their own ...it might have sounded like a good idea to some people but some 10-15 years letter when the SGR company would be making super profits while we only get peanuts in the name of taxes, the same ppl like David ndii will be publishing multiple articles showing how we are bleeding money and losing foreign exchange to the chinese while they make super profits from our own export/import business and give us scraps and how that is a bad deal to the economy ...

Kafrican said:

its almost no different.... See assuming that its true that Msa was signed off as security guanrantee... If the chinies were to take over, they wont own the port and all its equipment. ..They will just take over the running of the port and run it for a couple of years...and in those years, all the profits will go to them...but they will still pay taxes and levy and everything else just like any organization private or public.... After they pay back their loan then the port reverts back to the owner.... last year the port Generated $350million to the government, paying even $10B would take less than 15-20 years...




As for the bagamoyo port, you are giving them 100% ownership for 99 years...or as you might like to call it..lease...In those 99 years they can do whatever they want....The govt will get its tax and land rate just like any institution pays taxes... While this might seem like a good idea at this moment because its a free $10B investment ... but they will own probably the single largest port in Africa... Dar and Tanga port (which are ports belonging to the pwople of Tz) will be rendered obsolete! Most of the goods or shipping line come from Asia where china is king, they will all shift to Bagamoyo and Tz will have no say in it.. infact you might even encourage them at first... but later you will do the math and realise, the service fee which you used to get in dar port goes to the chinese, the port charges will go to the chinese, landi fee to the chinese.... And they would be taking the profits back to China, the only think they will leave you is tax...

It would have been much better if You had just accepted the $10B investment as a loan in a model where the chinese finance, build, operate for a period to get back all their money plus intrest and then eventually and gradually give tz ownership of the port... but in this case they will own it forever!

Imagin if Kenya had not taken a loan but instead let china build the SGR and own it forever, and suffere losses or profits on their own ...it might have sounded like a good idea to some people but some 10-15 years letter when the SGR company would be making super profits while we only get peanuts in the name of taxes, the same ppl like David ndii will be publishing multiple articles showing how we are bleeding money and losing foreign exchange to the chinese while they make super profits from our own export/import business and give us scraps and how that is a bad deal to the economy ...

Click to expand...

Bagamoyo is nowhere near Dar port in terms of being a critical port of entry for Tz. Tanzania is blessed with such a massive coastline including ports in Zanzibar it can afford to privatise some ports or enter into PPPs, infact Nyerere had given Tanga port free to uganda before obote was overthrown.
KENYA on the other hand is giving away Mombasa port, the only gateway to kenya and the main economic activity to the whole of coastal region, Lamu port is also on loan to the same chinese

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Bagamoyo is nowhere near Dar port in terms of being a critical port of entry for Tz. Tanzania is blessed with such a massive coastline including ports in Zanzibar it can afford to privatise some ports or enter into PPPs, infact Nyerere had given Tanga port free to uganda before obote was overthrown.
KENYA on the other hand is giving away Mombasa port, the only gateway to kenya and the main economic activity to the whole of coastal region, Lamu port is also on loan to the same chinese

Click to expand...

Lamu port is not a loan... do your research...

Location is relative when it comes to ports, and the shipping industry is all about profits and scale a shipper would be willing to go Mozambique and drop all EA cargo if the port there would be big enough then send it via road ... when goods are brought in bulk the shipping costs are extremely low they can practically be dropped anywhere and they will still be cheaper than if a ship went around dropping cargo for each port. . so trust me when I say Bagamoyo is in the perfect location to take out the whole of East coast of Africa.....
The $10B bagampyo port includes everything..they are not just investing $10B in a port for nothing.. Just compare with lamu port which will cost $4B all together. .. Bagamoyo too is envisaged to have a rail connection to the hinterland which is part of that $10B budget. ..when they are done the central corridor including the SGR you are building will looseout big time... private ports are extremely efficient ..they might even build one of those automated ports like the new one they have in shanghai deep sea port where everything is automated even offloading containers , the whole port has like 20 employees only...When a port like Dar takes 7 days to clear cargo, they will do it in a matter of hours...and use the 6 extra days to transport the containers to anywhere within the region... No dar or msa will be able to compete with that and all that profit will go to china

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Bagamoyo is nowhere near Dar port in terms of being a critical port of entry for Tz. Tanzania is blessed with such a massive coastline including ports in Zanzibar it can afford to privatise some ports or enter into PPPs, infact Nyerere had given Tanga port free to uganda before obote was overthrown.
KENYA on the other hand is giving away Mombasa port, the only gateway to kenya and the main economic activity to the whole of coastal region, Lamu port is also on loan to the same chinese

Click to expand...

Lamu port first 3 berths is not a loan... do your research...

Location is relative when it comes to ports, and the shipping industry is all about profits and scale a shipper would be willing to go Mozambique and drop all EA cargo if the port there would be big enough then send it via road ... when goods are brought in bulk the shipping costs are extremely low they can practically be dropped anywhere and they will still be cheaper than if a ship went around dropping cargo for each port. . so trust me when I say Bagamoyo is in the perfect location to take out the whole of East coast of Africa.....
The $10B bagampyo port includes everything..they are not just investing $10B in a port for nothing.. Just compare with lamu port which will cost $4B all together. .. Bagamoyo too is envisaged to have a rail connection to the hinterland which is part of that $10B budget. ..when they are done the central corridor including the SGR you are building will looseout big time... private ports are extremely efficient ..they might even build one of those automated ports like the new one they have in shanghai deep sea port where everything is automated even offloading containers , the whole port has like 20 employees only...When a port like Dar takes 7 days to clear cargo, they will do it in a matter of hours...and use the 6 extra days to transport the containers to anywhere within the region... No dar or msa will be able to compete with that and all that profit will go to china

Kafrican said:

Lamu port first 3 berths is not a loan... do your research...

Location is relative when it comes to ports, and the shipping industry is all about profits and scale a shipper would be willing to go Mozambique and drop all EA cargo if the port there would be big enough then send it via road ... when goods are brought in bulk the shipping costs are extremely low they can practically be dropped anywhere and they will still be cheaper than if a ship went around dropping cargo for each port. . so trust me when I say Bagamoyo is in the perfect location to take out the whole of East coast of Africa.....
The $10B bagampyo port includes everything..they are not just investing $10B in a port for nothing.. Just compare with lamu port which will cost $4B all together. .. Bagamoyo too is envisaged to have a rail connection to the hinterland which is part of that $10B budget. ..when they are done the central corridor including the SGR you are building will looseout big time... private ports are extremely efficient ..they might even build one of those automated ports like the new one they have in shanghai deep sea port where everything is automated even offloading containers , the whole port has like 20 employees only...When a port like Dar takes 7 days to clear cargo, they will do it in a matter of hours...and use the 6 extra days to transport the containers to anywhere within the region... No dar or msa will be able to compete with that and all that profit will go to china

Click to expand...

Competition and effient port technology is a good thing, Not a bad thing. If Dar faces competition from bagamoyo they up their game which will eventually make Tz ports the most efficient in the region and in anycase it will bring more business to Tz Economy. So it cannot be viewed from the narrow mind of it being a PPP investment - The GoT has saved alot of money in having china build it, money that has gone into building hospitals, medicine and schools
Lamu is built on loans from a consortium of many banks(including chinese banks) and development orgs.
Mombasa is already on the brink of going to china, Lamu is a non starter will take years to payback loans and eventually may be handed over to the finaciers

^^
Most people only here about srilanka s case but they haven't bothered to read about it... Thirr port wasnt just taken..
China gave sri lanka $1B to build a port... They wasted the money and built half a port and couldn't generate revenue to pay back the loan... Instead of suffering, Sri lanka proposed to lease 80% of the port to the chinese for them to forget the debt... in return, Sri lanka was given $1.2B as payment (so thats $2b payment in total for 80% ownership of the port) ... The chinese are now building the port futher...



-----'-------
Hambantota International Port Group (HIPG) and Hambantota International Port Services (HIPS), two new companies set up by the China Merchants Port Holdings Company and the Sri Lanka Ports Authority, will own the port. Saturday’s ceremony marked the start of HIPG and HIPS-managed operations in Hambantota Port.
Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Earlier this year, in July, China Merchants Port Holdings Company agreed to pay $1.12 billion for an 85 percent share in Hambantota port on a 99-year lease.
On Saturday, China Merchants Port Holdings Company made a first installment payment to the Sri Lankan government for control of the port.
According to Sri Lanka’s News1st , the Sri Lanka Ministry of Ports and Shipping noted that the first payment represents 30 percent of $974 million, with the Chinese side investing an additional $146 million directly in Sri Lanka.
Sri Lanka Formally Hands Over Hambantota Port to Chinese Firms on 99-Year Lease
-------------





So Srilanka got $1.2B out of leasing the port and bieng forgiven a $1B debt.....
The situation and the circumstances leading up to Srilanka selling its port are different. .. but how is the end dituation different From Tanzania handing over Bagamoyo port for a 99year lease, you'll probably get the same amount of $1B or even less since they bought the land themselves, as payment.. and for a while you will be proud of yourselves. .. b4 you latter start crying..


China Merchants Port Holdings Company the company that now ownes the Sri Lanka port is the same company that will own Bagamoyo port!

Kafrican said:

Most people only here about srilanka s case but they haven't bothered to read about it... Thirr port wasnt just taken..
China gave sri lanka $1B to build a port... They wasted the money and built half a port and couldn't generate revenue to pay back the loan... Instead of suffering, Sri lanka proposed to lease 80% of the port to the chinese for them to forget the debt... in return, Sri lanka was given $1.2B as payment (so thats $2b payment in total for 80% ownership of the port) ... The chinese are now building the port futher...



-----'-------
Hambantota International Port Group (HIPG) and Hambantota International Port Services (HIPS), two new companies set up by the China Merchants Port Holdings Company and the Sri Lanka Ports Authority, will own the port. Saturday’s ceremony marked the start of HIPG and HIPS-managed operations in Hambantota Port.
Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Earlier this year, in July, China Merchants Port Holdings Company agreed to pay $1.12 billion for an 85 percent share in Hambantota port on a 99-year lease.
On Saturday, China Merchants Port Holdings Company made a first installment payment to the Sri Lankan government for control of the port.
According to Sri Lanka’s News1st , the Sri Lanka Ministry of Ports and Shipping noted that the first payment represents 30 percent of $974 million, with the Chinese side investing an additional $146 million directly in Sri Lanka.
-------------





So Srilanka got $1.2B out of leasing the port and bieng forgiven a $1B debt.....
The situation and the circumstances leading up to Srilanka selling its port are different. .. but how is the end dituation different From Tanzania handing over Bagamoyo port for a 99year lease, you'll probably get the same amount of $1B or even less since they bought the land themselves, as payment.. and for a while you will be proud of yourselves. .. b4 you latter start crying..


China Merchants Port Holdings Company the company that now ownes the Sri Lanka port is the same company that will own Bagamoyo port!

Click to expand...

Same scenario as Kenya SGR!

Kafrican said:

^^
Most people only here about srilanka s case but they haven't bothered to read about it... Thirr port wasnt just taken..
China gave sri lanka $1B to build a port... They wasted the money and built half a port and couldn't generate revenue to pay back the loan... Instead of suffering, Sri lanka proposed to lease 80% of the port to the chinese for them to forget the debt... in return, Sri lanka was given $1.2B as payment (so thats $2b payment in total for 80% ownership of the port) ... The chinese are now building the port futher...



-----'-------
Hambantota International Port Group (HIPG) and Hambantota International Port Services (HIPS), two new companies set up by the China Merchants Port Holdings Company and the Sri Lanka Ports Authority, will own the port. Saturday’s ceremony marked the start of HIPG and HIPS-managed operations in Hambantota Port.
Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Earlier this year, in July, China Merchants Port Holdings Company agreed to pay $1.12 billion for an 85 percent share in Hambantota port on a 99-year lease.
On Saturday, China Merchants Port Holdings Company made a first installment payment to the Sri Lankan government for control of the port.
According to Sri Lanka’s News1st , the Sri Lanka Ministry of Ports and Shipping noted that the first payment represents 30 percent of $974 million, with the Chinese side investing an additional $146 million directly in Sri Lanka.
Sri Lanka Formally Hands Over Hambantota Port to Chinese Firms on 99-Year Lease
-------------





So Srilanka got $1.2B out of leasing the port and bieng forgiven a $1B debt.....
The situation and the circumstances leading up to Srilanka selling its port are different. .. but how is the end dituation different From Tanzania handing over Bagamoyo port for a 99year lease, you'll probably get the same amount of $1B or even less since they bought the land themselves, as payment.. and for a while you will be proud of yourselves. .. b4 you latter start crying..


China Merchants Port Holdings Company the company that now ownes the Sri Lanka port is the same company that will own Bagamoyo port!

Click to expand...

You Forgot to mention that Sri Lanka is now forcing importers to use the port so that chinese can make money and recoup their investment. Once Mombasa Goes to chinese, All importers will be forced to use it so that china gets its SGR loan back.
Tz has no loan on bagamoyo, If chinese bring high tech port technology, Tz will up their game in Tanga, Dar and others

Tusicheke, tushukuru hayajatukuta

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

You Forgot to mention that Sri Lanka is now forcing importers to use the port so that chinese can make money and recoup their investment. Once Mombasa Goes to chinese, All importers will be forced to use it so that china gets its SGR loan back.
Tz has no loan on bagamoyo, If chinese bring high tech port technology, Tz will up their game in Tanga, Dar and others

Click to expand...

Why are you guys so sure that Kenya won't be able to pay back these loans? It's like for you guys it's a given we cannot and will not payback the Chinese.

Remember we are a growing economy.

Stop losing calories jumping into conclusions.

asvptx said:

Why are you guys so sure that Kenya won't be able to pay back these loans? It's like for you guys it's a given we cannot and will not payback the Chinese.

Remember we are a growing economy.

Stop losing calories jumping into conclusions.

Click to expand...

Kenya is already borrowing Loans to payback loans. So unless kenya borrows more which Cbk chief njoroge said is now impossible, Mombasa port belongs to China. Kenyan exports are falling and even lowly Uganda is now exporting More to kenya than kenya sells to UG. UK market for kenyan goods has been cut in half by Tz and Rwanda

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Kenya is already borrowing Loans to payback loans. So unless kenya borrows more which Cbk chief njoroge said is now impossible, Mombasa port belongs to China. Kenyan exports are falling and even lowly Uganda is now exporting More to kenya than kenya sells to UG. UK market for kenyan goods has been cut in half by Tz and Rwanda

Click to expand...

Our economy is the most diverse (dare I say it) in the whole of Africa. We can borrow to payback loans because we still can. CBK chief never said its impossible. He gave a warning of the rising debt to GDP ratio which is at 60-65%. Very well below the limit CBK set for 74%

Our economy being diversified means we don't depend on few sectors for economic growth. Your facts are WRONG. You can't say our market has been cut by half, that's exaggerating to please yourself and your countrymen, which is sad. Our market there has just been eaten up a little.

Now back to the topic. We have the capacity to repay back china and we will. Be it borrowing more loans to repay previous loans or not. So like I said, don't jump into conclusions regarding Mombasa port or even the SGR. You will lose sleep

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

You Forgot to mention that Sri Lanka is now forcing importers to use the port so that chinese can make money and recoup their investment. Once Mombasa Goes to chinese, All importers will be forced to use it so that china gets its SGR loan back.
Tz has no loan on bagamoyo, If chinese bring high tech port technology, Tz will up their game in Tanga, Dar and others

Click to expand...

First of all, itsan unsubstantiated that Kenya signed off Msa as Security guarantee.. 1 because the Chinese gave loan for SGR, if it were to fail they would take ownership of the project they funded... just like what they did in Srilanka, not take a totally different project.... Mombasa port has a loan of $1B from Jica(Japan) Its japan who are paid using the port revenues...


You also forgot that most goods in Africa come from China, and china also owns a huge chunk of of the shipping industry in all of the indian ocean....

You also forgot to connect the dots that China has taken ownership of strategic ports along the shipping lines including its latest aquisition of Bagamoyo... When you order goods online, you dont choose which port it goes through first... the chinese are creating a perfect supply chain.. they will be using these ports as 'hubs' where they bring goods in bulk and redistribute them to regional destinations. .. e.g when you order an Iphone or a fridge... you wont have to wait for a month to get it, There will be a million iphones and half a million fridges already lying somewhere in a warehouse in bagamoyo just waiting for you to order.... while that might seem advantageous. .. all of east African future indigenous manufacturing industries will never be able to stand on their feet.... everything brought in through bagamoyo will be dirt cheap.... you think chinese goods are cheap now? wait till you see then.



Amd if Dar and Tanga has been unable to compete with Mombasa for regional dominance, how thd hell do you even begin to dream of competing with conglomerate that owns all the the port that ships go through, is good friends wih the companies that manufactures the goods, owns the shipliners...etc

Kampuni hiohio ilinunua robo ya Djibouti port
China Merchants buys control of Djibouti's Red Sea container terminal

asvptx said:

Our economy is the most diverse (dare I say it) in the whole of Africa. We can borrow to payback loans because we still can. CBK chief never said its impossible. He gave a warning of the rising debt to GDP ratio which is at 60-65%. Very well below the limit CBK set for 74%

Our economy being diversified means we don't depend on few sectors for economic growth. Your facts are WRONG. You can't say our market has been cut by half, that's exaggerating to please yourself and your countrymen, which is sad. Our market there has just been eaten up a little.

Now back to the topic. We have the capacity to repay back china and we will. Be it borrowing more loans to repay previous loans or not. So like I said, don't jump into conclusions regarding Mombasa port or even the SGR. You will lose sleep

Click to expand...

60% of kenya GDP comes from Agriculture or agriculture related activity. Agriculture has been falling as industries close and imports of such things as brazilian sugar,chinese fish,Ugandan eggs and poultry, Tz maize and wheat.
The biggest foreign Currency earner was Tea,Coffee, tourism and horticulture..These have fallen and now the biggest source of Foreign currency is EuroBonds which are now attracting 8% intrest.
Simply,Kenya is trapped in debt cannot pay SGR and eventually Mombasa goes to china

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

60% of kenya GDP comes from Agriculture or agriculture related activity. Agriculture has been falling as industries close and imports of such things as brazilian sugar,chinese fish,Ugandan eggs and poultry, Tz maize and wheat.
The biggest foreign Currency earner was Tea,Coffee, tourism and horticulture..These have fallen and now the biggest source of Foreign currency is EuroBonds which are now attracting 8% intrest.
Simply,Kenya is trapped in debt cannot pay SGR and eventually Mombasa goes to china

Click to expand...

Why are you so bitter? Here

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

60% of kenya GDP comes from Agriculture or agriculture related activity. Agriculture has been falling as industries close and imports of such things as brazilian sugar,chinese fish,Ugandan eggs and poultry, Tz maize and wheat.
The biggest foreign Currency earner was Tea,Coffee, tourism and horticulture..These have fallen and now the biggest source of Foreign currency is EuroBonds which are now attracting 8% intrest.
Simply,Kenya is trapped in debt cannot pay SGR and eventually Mombasa goes to china

Click to expand...

You say Kenya is trapped in debt at 62% to GDP like you guys are saints

Your debt to GDP ratio as at 2013 was 42%. Calm down. Let us BE

Kafrican said:

First of all, itsan unsubstantiated that Kenya signed off Msa as Security guarantee.. 1 because the Chinese gave loan for SGR, if it were to fail they would take ownership of the project they funded... just like what they did in Srilanka, not take a totally different project.... Mombasa port has a loan of $1B from Jica(Japan) Its japan who are paid using the port revenues...


You also forgot that most goods in Africa come from China, and china also owns a huge chunk of of the shipping industry in all of the indian ocean....

You also forgot to connect the dots that China has taken ownership of strategic ports along the shipping lines including its latest aquisition of Bagamoyo... When you order goods online, you dont choose which port it goes through first... the chinese are creating a perfect supply chain.. they will be using these ports as 'hubs' where they bring goods in bulk and redistribute them to regional destinations. .. e.g when you order an Iphone or a fridge... you wont have to wait for a month to get it, There will be a million iphones and half a million fridges already lying somewhere in a warehouse in bagamoyo just waiting for you to order.... while that might seem advantageous. .. all of east African future indigenous manufacturing industries will never be able to stand on their feet.... everything brought in through bagamoyo will be dirt cheap.... you think chinese goods are cheap now? wait till you see then.



Amd if Dar and Tanga has been unable to compete with Mombasa for regional dominance, how thd hell do you even begin to dream of competing with conglomerate that owns all the the port that ships go through, is good friends wih the companies that manufactures the goods, owns the shipliners...etc

Click to expand...

I like the way you keep you hopes up, maybe it patriotism. But that aside, where will kenya get money to pay loans? which sector is the next frontier? The current economic sectors cannot be exploited to pay loans such that the status quo is borrowing to pay. Is oil the next frontier? Not a chance, not even 1 barrel will have been sold by the time all the loans mature. Mark you the SGR loan matures this year, Taxpayer to cough 50b per year upto 2025

Kafrican said:

First of all, itsan unsubstantiated that Kenya signed off Msa as Security guarantee.. 1 because the Chinese gave loan for SGR, if it were to fail they would take ownership of the project they funded... just like what they did in Srilanka, not take a totally different project.... Mombasa port has a loan of $1B from Jica(Japan) Its japan who are paid using the port revenues...


You also forgot that most goods in Africa come from China, and china also owns a huge chunk of of the shipping industry in all of the indian ocean....

You also forgot to connect the dots that China has taken ownership of strategic ports along the shipping lines including its latest aquisition of Bagamoyo... When you order goods online, you dont choose which port it goes through first... the chinese are creating a perfect supply chain.. they will be using these ports as 'hubs' where they bring goods in bulk and redistribute them to regional destinations. .. e.g when you order an Iphone or a fridge... you wont have to wait for a month to get it, There will be a million iphones and half a million fridges already lying somewhere in a warehouse in bagamoyo just waiting for you to order.... while that might seem advantageous. .. all of east African future indigenous manufacturing industries will never be able to stand on their feet.... everything brought in through bagamoyo will be dirt cheap.... you think chinese goods are cheap now? wait till you see then.



Amd if Dar and Tanga has been unable to compete with Mombasa for regional dominance, how thd hell do you even begin to dream of competing with conglomerate that owns all the the port that ships go through, is good friends wih the companies that manufactures the goods, owns the shipliners...etc

Click to expand...

I like the way you keep you hopes up, maybe it patriotism. But that aside, where will kenya get money to pay loans? which sector is the next frontier? The current economic sectors cannot be exploited to pay loans such that the status quo is borrowing to pay. Is oil the next frontier? Not a chance, not even 1 barrel will have been sold by the time all the loans mature. Mark you the SGR loan matures this year, Taxpayer to cough 50b per year upto 2025

asvptx said:

You say Kenya is trapped in debt at 62% to GDP like you guys are saints

Your debt to GDP ratio as at 2013 was 42%. Calm down. Let us BEView attachment 820035

Click to expand...

So? R u trying to argue ur debt is on the way to hit 70% by the end of budget year 2018/2019 ?