Inside10
JF-Expert Member
- May 20, 2011
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Nani kakwambia zinatumika ktk teuzi; uteuzi ufanyanyikao no kutokana na elimu na weledi wa mtu. Muwe mnachuja na anavyowamezesha ponda
Wanabodi.
Tanzania ni nchi yetu sote Waislam, Wakiristo, na wasiokuwa na dini tunamshukuru Mungu kwa kutupa moyo wa subira kuishi kwa upendo na kuvumiliana na kuheshimiana watu wa dini zote na wasiokuwa na dini kuna kitu kinaitwa (Coexistence) ambacho watanzania tunacho tumepewa na Mungu.
Hizi takwimu ambazo zipo kwenye idara za serikali na katika taasisi za dini zimetolewa kwa faida ya nani kisiasa, kidini, kibiashara, kimaendeleo, hau faida zake zipi takwimu zenyewe ni hizi hapa...
Ofisi ya Waziri Mkuu inaonesha Wakiristo ni 45% - Waislam ni 35%. TBC1 wametangaza Wakiristo ni 52% - Waislam ni 32%. Bodi ya Utalii inaonesha Wakiristo ni 45% - Waislam ni 40%. Tovuti ya Wakatoliki (www.rc.net) inaonyesha Tanzania kuna Wakiristo ni 44% - Waislam ni 34%.
Takwimu hizi zimekuwa zikitumiwa katika uteuzi na maamuzi na serikali.
Hii inaonesha ni jinsi gani kituo cha television cha serikali (ukweli na uhakika) kinavyochakachua habari
Hapo utaona umuhimu wa swali la dini katika sensa.
Tunajifanya hatujali dini wakati sehemu zote hizo, pamoja na ofisi ya Waziri Mkuu, wametaja asilimia za Waislam/Wakristo.
Ujinga mmoja tunaofanya ni kumuona Nyerere kama mtume, na hotuba yake aliyosema kwamba hakujua namba ya mawaziri wake kwa dini imechukuliwa kama kukataa kuhesabu watu kwa dini.
Wakati huo huo dunia inabadilika. Nakubali kwamba kuna uwezekano wa namba hizi kuleta matatizo (rationale ya watu wanaosema wana nia nzuri kukataa swali la dini kwenye sensa ni kwamba wengine -let's face it, waislamu- watatumia figures za dini kuleta chokochoko). Kwa hiyo wanasema tusiweke swali la dini ili kusiwe na official government figures za idadi ya watu kwa dini.Ili kusiwe na chanzo cha chokochoko kama za Waislamu kuanza kutaka nafasi za juu/ elimu kwa quotas za dini.
This argument is wrong. Because it is based on a deception.Because it fears the truth.
Ni kama vile serikali inataka kutumia manipulation kuzuia watu kujua ukweli. Hesabuni watu, wekeni swali la dini tujue Tanzania ina Wakristo wngapi na waislamu wangapi.Ondoeni mgogoro usio lazima. Halafu mtu akileta ujinga wa kutaka nafasi za uongozi kwa misingi ya dini tutakataa.
Serikali ikikataa kuhesabu watu na kuweka kipengele cha dini, inapalia moto hizi tetesi kwamba inakandamiza waislamu. Inafanya mgogoro uwe mkubwa kuliko ulivyotakiwa kuwa.
Kama mtu anapanga kuleta chokochoko kwa kutumia namba za sensa, usipompa hizo namba ndo umempa carte blanche ya kufanya chokochoko hizo, na hata kumuongezea sympathizers.
Mimi huona vibaya sana ninapoangalia ramani za statistics na kukuta Tanzania katika vitu vingi sana iko under "Data Not Available". Sensa ni zoezi lenye gharama kubwa sana na linatokea mara moja tu kila mlongo. Kwa nini tusiweke hili swali la dini hata academicians wanaotaka kujua hizi habari katika reseraches zao (kwa mfano, kama mtu anataka kujua relationship between religious belief and family planning/ reproduction rate ili ku shape government policy, atashindwa kupata reliable government figure.
Ile argument ya Nyerere ambayo imekubalika sheepishly, kwamba serikali hailazimiki kuhesabu watu kwa dini kwa sababu haijengi misikiti iko outdated, na pengine iliweza kukubalika nyakati zile tu kwa sababu Nyerere alikuwa strongman na watu walikuwa bado hawajaweza kum challenge vizuri. Na hata yeye inawezekana kabisa alikataa kuhesabu watu kwa sababu za political expediency zilizo les benevolent kuliko alivyotaka ionekane.Kwa sababu habari ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini -unless you are simpleton, and Nyerere was no simpleton- itakusaidia kwa mambo mengi zaidi ya kujenga misikiti, this is a simplistic approach.Nimetoa mfano hapo wa research ya kuangalia relationship between religious belief and reproduction rates, hii inaingia moja kwa moja katika government policy.
Sasa tunaweza kushindwa kuwa na the right government policy kuhusu reproductive health simply kwa sababu tume ignore umuhimu wa kuwa na government statistics (from a reliable source such as the census as opposed to from an religious body which is not above being prone to inflating figures).
Kuna siku watu watakaa na kucheka sana hii nchi ilivyokuwa inaendeshwa. In so many ways bado tupo katika Ujamaa unaoenda kwenye Ukomunisti. Ule unaokataa kuwepo kwa dini, kwa sababu unataka kumfanya kila mtu aamini kwamba serikali ndio dini pekee.
Bora ukweli mbaya (kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini, hata kama kuna uwezekano wa habari hii kuleta matatizo) kuliko uongo mzuri (kwamba Tanzania serikali haijali kabisa mambo ya dini na hivyo haina haja ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini).
The Boss unapotoka, Kanisa halina haja na wala halihitaji takwimu za dini kwa kutegemea kuhesabiwa wahumini wake na serikali, kanisa liko bize kuongeza idadi ya vyuo vikuu na mahospital na siyo hizi habari za kufikirika.Hii issue kuigeuza kuwa ni ukorofi wa waislam wachache
ndio walipokesea....
funny hata Makanisa yamekaa kimyaa
while na wao inawahusu pia
wanahitaji kujua idadi kamili ya waumini wao..
Bia tamu kuliko siasa.
Drink beer and you will be realaxing. Practice politics and you will be spoiled
The Boss. Kanisa Katoriki, nalolichukia sana, lina records za waumini wake very detailed kuliko records za Familia binafsi ya Kikwete zilipo Ikulu. trust me.Hii issue kuigeuza kuwa ni ukorofi wa waislam wachache
ndio walipokesea....
funny hata Makanisa yamekaa kimyaa
while na wao inawahusu pia
wanahitaji kujua idadi kamili ya waumini wao..
Hii inaonesha ni jinsi gani kituo cha television cha serikali (ukweli na uhakika) kinavyochakachua habari
Na hizi takwimu zinasababisha hata wale waarabu wapunguze misaada ya tende na kuilekeza zaidi Zanzibar maana ndio kwenye Waislamu 99% hata Islamic bank inashindwa kuleta pesa kwenye nchi yenye idadi kubwa ya makafiri.
Mpango mpya ni kuhakikisha kila Muislamu anazaa watoto wasiopunguwa 10 ili sensa ijayo Umma wa mtume SAW uwe 80% ya Watanzania wote.
Nimependa argument yako mkuu.Very excellent.Enzi hizi tunataka vichwa kama nyie.Cyo kila kitu Ndio mzee.Ujinga mtu...u.Hapo utaona umuhimu wa swali la dini katika sensa.
Tunajifanya hatujali dini wakati sehemu zote hizo, pamoja na ofisi ya Waziri Mkuu, wametaja asilimia za Waislam/Wakristo.
Ujinga mmoja tunaofanya ni kumuona Nyerere kama mtume, na hotuba yake aliyosema kwamba hakujua namba ya mawaziri wake kwa dini imechukuliwa kama kukataa kuhesabu watu kwa dini.
Wakati huo huo dunia inabadilika. Nakubali kwamba kuna uwezekano wa namba hizi kuleta matatizo (rationale ya watu wanaosema wana nia nzuri kukataa swali la dini kwenye sensa ni kwamba wengine -let's face it, waislamu- watatumia figures za dini kuleta chokochoko). Kwa hiyo wanasema tusiweke swali la dini ili kusiwe na official government figures za idadi ya watu kwa dini.Ili kusiwe na chanzo cha chokochoko kama za Waislamu kuanza kutaka nafasi za juu/ elimu kwa quotas za dini.
This argument is wrong. Because it is based on a deception.Because it fears the truth.
Ni kama vile serikali inataka kutumia manipulation kuzuia watu kujua ukweli. Hesabuni watu, wekeni swali la dini tujue Tanzania ina Wakristo wngapi na waislamu wangapi.Ondoeni mgogoro usio lazima. Halafu mtu akileta ujinga wa kutaka nafasi za uongozi kwa misingi ya dini tutakataa.
Serikali ikikataa kuhesabu watu na kuweka kipengele cha dini, inapalia moto hizi tetesi kwamba inakandamiza waislamu. Inafanya mgogoro uwe mkubwa kuliko ulivyotakiwa kuwa.
Kama mtu anapanga kuleta chokochoko kwa kutumia namba za sensa, usipompa hizo namba ndo umempa carte blanche ya kufanya chokochoko hizo, na hata kumuongezea sympathizers.
Mimi huona vibaya sana ninapoangalia ramani za statistics na kukuta Tanzania katika vitu vingi sana iko under "Data Not Available". Sensa ni zoezi lenye gharama kubwa sana na linatokea mara moja tu kila mlongo. Kwa nini tusiweke hili swali la dini hata academicians wanaotaka kujua hizi habari katika reseraches zao (kwa mfano, kama mtu anataka kujua relationship between religious belief and family planning/ reproduction rate ili ku shape government policy, atashindwa kupata reliable government figure.
Ile argument ya Nyerere ambayo imekubalika sheepishly, kwamba serikali hailazimiki kuhesabu watu kwa dini kwa sababu haijengi misikiti iko outdated, na pengine iliweza kukubalika nyakati zile tu kwa sababu Nyerere alikuwa strongman na watu walikuwa bado hawajaweza kum challenge vizuri. Na hata yeye inawezekana kabisa alikataa kuhesabu watu kwa sababu za political expediency zilizo les benevolent kuliko alivyotaka ionekane.Kwa sababu habari ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini -unless you are simpleton, and Nyerere was no simpleton- itakusaidia kwa mambo mengi zaidi ya kujenga misikiti, this is a simplistic approach.Nimetoa mfano hapo wa research ya kuangalia relationship between religious belief and reproduction rates, hii inaingia moja kwa moja katika government policy.
Sasa tunaweza kushindwa kuwa na the right government policy kuhusu reproductive health simply kwa sababu tume ignore umuhimu wa kuwa na government statistics (from a reliable source such as the census as opposed to from a religious body which is not above being prone to inflating figures).
Kuna siku watu watakaa na kucheka sana hii nchi ilivyokuwa inaendeshwa. In so many ways bado tupo katika Ujamaa unaoenda kwenye Ukomunisti. Ule unaokataa kuwepo kwa dini, kwa sababu unataka kumfanya kila mtu aamini kwamba serikali ndio dini pekee.
Bora ukweli mbaya (kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini, hata kama kuna uwezekano wa habari hii kuleta matatizo) kuliko uongo mzuri (kwamba Tanzania serikali haijali kabisa mambo ya dini na hivyo haina haja ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini).
Madhehebuya dini za Kikiristo (Wakatoliki, Walutheri, Waangalikana, Wapentekoste, na hata Makanisa mengine ya Kilokole) hutunza kumbukumbu za waumini wao. Mtafiti mahiri akipitia na kuweka pamoja kumbukumbu za idadi ya madhehebu yote ya Kikristo atabaini/kukadiria idadi ya makundi hayo ya kidini. Aidha kwa kutumia kiwango cha ukuaji wa idadi ya watu na/au idadi ya jumla ya Watazania kwa mujibu waSensa za nyuma ni rahisi kukadiria idadi ya Wakristo, Waislam na Makundi mengine. Makadirio haya yanaweza kuwa na kosa kati ya +1% au -1% (99 confidence level).
........ https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-...ya-rais-kikwete-yatokanayo-7.html#post4503949
Huko ni kutafuta majibu mepesi kwenye maswali magumu. Hebu angalia kwanza chama chako CCM bara. Hivi kuna idadi sawa ya wabunge waislamu na wakristu? Jibu: hapana. Inawezekana vipi wabunge wengi wakawa wakristu kupita waislam? Jibu: walijitokeza wengi kwenye mchakato wa kugombea ubunge na waliweza kupenya. Kwanini kuna mawaziri/naibu wengi wakristu kupita waislam ? Jibu mwenyewe...Wanabodi.
Tanzania ni nchi yetu sote Waislam, Wakiristo, na wasiokuwa na dini tunamshukuru Mungu kwa kutupa moyo wa subira kuishi kwa upendo na kuvumiliana na kuheshimiana watu wa dini zote na wasiokuwa na dini kuna kitu kinaitwa (Coexistence) ambacho watanzania tunacho tumepewa na Mungu.
Hizi takwimu ambazo zipo kwenye idara za serikali na katika taasisi za dini zimetolewa kwa faida ya nani kisiasa, kidini, kibiashara, kimaendeleo, hau faida zake zipi takwimu zenyewe ni hizi hapa...
Ofisi ya Waziri Mkuu inaonesha Wakiristo ni 45% - Waislam ni 35%. TBC1 wametangaza Wakiristo ni 52% - Waislam ni 32%. Bodi ya Utalii inaonesha Wakiristo ni 45% - Waislam ni 40%. Tovuti ya Wakatoliki (www.rc.net) inaonyesha Tanzania kuna Wakiristo ni 44% - Waislam ni 34%.
Takwimu hizi zimekuwa zikitumiwa katika uteuzi na maamuzi na serikali.
Hapo utaona umuhimu wa swali la dini katika sensa.
Tunajifanya hatujali dini wakati sehemu zote hizo, pamoja na ofisi ya Waziri Mkuu, wametaja asilimia za Waislam/Wakristo.
Ujinga mmoja tunaofanya ni kumuona Nyerere kama mtume, na hotuba yake aliyosema kwamba hakujua namba ya mawaziri wake kwa dini imechukuliwa kama kukataa kuhesabu watu kwa dini.
Wakati huo huo dunia inabadilika. Nakubali kwamba kuna uwezekano wa namba hizi kuleta matatizo (rationale ya watu wanaosema wana nia nzuri kukataa swali la dini kwenye sensa ni kwamba wengine -let's face it, waislamu- watatumia figures za dini kuleta chokochoko). Kwa hiyo wanasema tusiweke swali la dini ili kusiwe na official government figures za idadi ya watu kwa dini.Ili kusiwe na chanzo cha chokochoko kama za Waislamu kuanza kutaka nafasi za juu/ elimu kwa quotas za dini.
This argument is wrong. Because it is based on a deception.Because it fears the truth.
Ni kama vile serikali inataka kutumia manipulation kuzuia watu kujua ukweli. Hesabuni watu, wekeni swali la dini tujue Tanzania ina Wakristo wngapi na waislamu wangapi.Ondoeni mgogoro usio lazima. Halafu mtu akileta ujinga wa kutaka nafasi za uongozi kwa misingi ya dini tutakataa.
Serikali ikikataa kuhesabu watu na kuweka kipengele cha dini, inapalia moto hizi tetesi kwamba inakandamiza waislamu. Inafanya mgogoro uwe mkubwa kuliko ulivyotakiwa kuwa.
Kama mtu anapanga kuleta chokochoko kwa kutumia namba za sensa, usipompa hizo namba ndo umempa carte blanche ya kufanya chokochoko hizo, na hata kumuongezea sympathizers.
Mimi huona vibaya sana ninapoangalia ramani za statistics na kukuta Tanzania katika vitu vingi sana iko under "Data Not Available". Sensa ni zoezi lenye gharama kubwa sana na linatokea mara moja tu kila mlongo. Kwa nini tusiweke hili swali la dini hata academicians wanaotaka kujua hizi habari katika reseraches zao (kwa mfano, kama mtu anataka kujua relationship between religious belief and family planning/ reproduction rate ili ku shape government policy, atashindwa kupata reliable government figure.
Ile argument ya Nyerere ambayo imekubalika sheepishly, kwamba serikali hailazimiki kuhesabu watu kwa dini kwa sababu haijengi misikiti iko outdated, na pengine iliweza kukubalika nyakati zile tu kwa sababu Nyerere alikuwa strongman na watu walikuwa bado hawajaweza kum challenge vizuri. Na hata yeye inawezekana kabisa alikataa kuhesabu watu kwa sababu za political expediency zilizo les benevolent kuliko alivyotaka ionekane.Kwa sababu habari ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini -unless you are simpleton, and Nyerere was no simpleton- itakusaidia kwa mambo mengi zaidi ya kujenga misikiti, this is a simplistic approach.Nimetoa mfano hapo wa research ya kuangalia relationship between religious belief and reproduction rates, hii inaingia moja kwa moja katika government policy.
Sasa tunaweza kushindwa kuwa na the right government policy kuhusu reproductive health simply kwa sababu tume ignore umuhimu wa kuwa na government statistics (from a reliable source such as the census as opposed to from a religious body which is not above being prone to inflating figures).
Kuna siku watu watakaa na kucheka sana hii nchi ilivyokuwa inaendeshwa. In so many ways bado tupo katika Ujamaa unaoenda kwenye Ukomunisti. Ule unaokataa kuwepo kwa dini, kwa sababu unataka kumfanya kila mtu aamini kwamba serikali ndio dini pekee.
Bora ukweli mbaya (kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini, hata kama kuna uwezekano wa habari hii kuleta matatizo) kuliko uongo mzuri (kwamba Tanzania serikali haijali kabisa mambo ya dini na hivyo haina haja ya kujua idadi ya watu kwa dini).
Mkuu,
This issue of linsisting that the question of religion to appear in the dodoso la SENSA would result in practice of listing religious group as MAJORITY & MINORITY communities which is very dangerous for our peace and tranquility which we have been enjoying for quite a long time and we should discourage as it will promote divisive tendencies to weaken the nation.
The goal of our Constitution was to create social conditions where there was no need to shield or protect right of Minority or Majority communities. All people are equal( Katiba ya JMT Sehemu ya Tatu, Usawa wa binadamu-HAKI NA WAJIBU MUHIMU soma 12. (1) hadi (5)).
In the Constitution, no Section or distinct group of people can neither claim to be in MAJORITY nor MINORITY. If we encourage this altitude, all so called MINORITY/MAJORITY among Tanzanians, many of them will claim such status because of their number and will expect protection (Favors) from the Government on the ground that they are backward/well advanced". If each group felt afraid of the other group, an atmosphere of Mutual fear and distrust would be created, posing serious threat to the integrity of our nation leading to sowing of seeds of multi-nationalism.
Encouragement to such fissiparous tendencies would be a serious jolt to the secular structure of our Constitutional democracy so We should guard against making our country akin to a theocratical state based on multi-nationalism.
Nawasilisha.
I am glad you did not mince words vaguely a la "hatujali dini" etc. You hit the nail on the head regarding the real reason behind the decision.
This argument is fallacious, controlling, manipulative, totalitarian and deceptive.
It is fallacious because, not providing census figures does not help anything in making the disenchanted -let's face it, mainly Muslims- feel any better.It actually may make things worse by giving them ammunition to say "This is the evidence of an organized conspiracy against Muslims".
It is controlling in a bad way because it treats Tanzanians like children who need to be protected from themselves.
It is manipulative because it obscures the real reasons behind it.No government official has asserted the reason you cited above as crisply as you did.
It is totalitarian because it does not provide people what they want.
It is deceptive because it attempts to hold the interests of Tanzanians at heart while in truth it is rooted in the Communist idea of undermining religion and making the state everybody's religion.
Furthermore, it invokes "national security" in vain, not very much unlike this sacred cow was invoked to shroud the Meremeta deal in some state secrecy.
This is another faulty argument. Just because the government can allow the question of religion to be in the census, this does not mean that it must follow that this would impose religion based quotas.
We can have the question regarding religion in the census and reject religious quotas.
To think that everybody who wants to know the number and distribution of people by religion in Tanzania has intentions to use this data maliciously is a failure of imagination. I have cited the example of academicians delving into data to research the link of religious affiliation to population growth, this information plays hugely in influencing government policy. You have not addressed such concerns so far.
I am not Muslim. I am atheist.You would think by the nature of my lack of faith I would support the government in it's stand. But no. I happen to love statistics and data. And I want the government to include this question. That does not mean I have a bad intention.
Again, you are assuming things that are not there already.
Undoubtedly, there are people who will go astray. But this is no justification to set a "mtego wa panya utakaokamata waliotakiwa na wasiotkiwa". Do not punish the academicians who want this data for research purposes just because some people want to use this data maliciously.
The government does not ban driving because some drivers will hit and run. This will be retrogressive. It allows driving and those who attempt to hit and run will be dealt with according to the law. What is so difficult about letting the law follow it's course?
Is the government afraid of it's own subjects?
Encouragement of the obvious and uncalled for infringements on the right to know would be a serious jolt to our Constitutional democracy.
I repeat.
Even if the census figures have a potentiality for malicious use.
Give me a bad truth (numbers that would potentially cause trouble but equally benefit academicians) over a good ignorance ( no numbers for fear of a religious split).
Have you no faith in Tanzanians ability to reject the shady versions of religious shenanigans? Why do you want a nanny state that treats it's subjects like little children in Tanzania?
Mkuu,
Tupo sawa Mkuu,
but I am opposing the question of religion in 2012 Census
because the data will be used to justify religious privilege in State policy on Public services.
Also you should keep in mind that with the Census data on religion, all of the questions would not be resolved automatically.