Picha Halisi ya Bwana wetu Yesu Kristu.

Yoda said:

Muhammad alikuwa meneja mfanyabiashara wa biashara za mke wake Bi Khadija. Alikuwa akikutana na Wayahudi na Wakristo kwenye misafara ya biashara (trade caravans) na huko ndiko alikotoka na masimulizi kutoka kwa Wayahudi na Wakristo aliyoyachukua na kuayaita wahyi akaanzisha dini yake ya Uislamu.

Click to expand...

Sasa Nini?​

Wayahudi waliokuwa wametawanyika katika maeneo mbalimbali na waliokata tamaa walipokuwa wakijaribu kutatua tatizo lao, bila shaka walijiuliza: “Kwa nini maandiko matakatifu ya Kiyahudi yalishindwa kutusaidia kwa kiwango hiki?”

Badala ya kutilia shaka ukweli wa unabii wao wa zamani, makuhani walitaka kulinda nafasi yao ya baadaye. Kwa hiyo, walijadiliana na kufikia hitimisho kwamba tatizo halikuwa katika maandiko, bali lilikuwa kwa Wayahudi wenyewe.

Wakati ulipofika, kama ilivyotabiriwa, Masihi alikuwa amekuja! Lakini taifa la Wayahudi kwa ujumla lilishindwa kumtambua! Hata wanafunzi ambao Masihi mwenyewe alikuwa amewachagua walionekana kuwa watu wasioelewa haraka. Walishindwa tena na tena kuelewa ujumbe wa Mungu au kuendeleza jukumu la Masihi.

Matokeo yake, Mungu mkali Yahweh aliwaadhibu Wayahudi kwa ukali zaidi kuliko alivyokuwa amewaadhibu hapo zamani.

Sasa janga hilo lilionekana kuwa na maana. Na tumaini lingeweza kurudi tena.

Ikiwa mtu mwadilifu angemwabudu Masihi huyo aliyekuwa amekuja zamani, basi angalau mtu huyo angeweza kuwa na uhakika wa kupata nafasi katika “Israeli mpya”.

Baada ya kuamua mafundisho hayo mapya ya dini, maswali mawili yalijitokeza: “Masihi huyo ambaye watu walishindwa kumtambua alikuwa nani?” na “Kwa nini hakutambuliwa?”

Hapa, maana mpya zilizotolewa kutoka katika maandiko ya zamani, kwa kufuata desturi ya Kiyahudi ya tafsiri inayoitwa midrash, zilitoa jibu: Masihi huyo angekuwa amejificha kwa kujifanya mtu mwingine; angeficha utambulisho wake wa kuwa Masihi.

Mafundisho hayo mapya yalihitaji kuunganishwa katika hadithi yenye kushawishi, ambayo ingeweza kusomwa kwa sauti mbele ya makundi ya Wayahudi waliokuwa wamekata tamaa.

Tangu wakati makuhani wa mwanzo wa Ukristo walipoanza kuamini kwamba Masihi alikuwa amekuja na tayari alikuwa ameondoka, walianza kutafuta kumtambua mwokozi ambaye watu walikuwa wamemkosa.

Rekodi za Hekalu na mambo mengine mengi yalikuwa yamepotea wakati wa vita. (Bila shaka, baadhi ya maandiko yalifichwa ndani ya mitungi huko Qumran, na kugunduliwa tena miaka elfu mbili baadaye.)

Hata hivyo, vipande vya maandishi, hadithi zilizokumbukwa kwa sehemu tu, na mkusanyiko mkubwa wa hadithi za dini za kipagani vingesaidia kujaza maelezo yaliyokosekana.

Ikiwa barua za Rabi Sauli, anayejulikana pia kama Paulo, zilipatikana kwao, zilichangia tu wazo maarufu la Wagnostiki kwamba “Kristo aliyefufuka” anatawala mbinguni na ni kiumbe wa kiroho kabisa, ambaye angeshuka kutoka mbinguni akiwa juu ya wingu wakati wa mwisho wa dunia.

Kwa Wakristo wa mwanzo, kuja huku kungekuwa kuja kwa pili kwa Masihi. Lakini walikuwa karibu kutunga hadithi ya kuja kwake kwa mara ya kwanza.

Katika hadithi iliyotokea, yaani Injili ya Marko, mwandishi aliunganisha zaidi ya hadithi ndogo 50, hasa hadithi za uponyaji na miujiza, zinazofanana na zile zilizosimuliwa kuhusu Apolonius. Hadithi hizo ziliwekwa kati ya sehemu inayomshusha hadhi Yohana Mbatizaji, ambaye wafuasi wake walikuwa wapinzani wakubwa wa Wakristo wa mwanzo, na sehemu ya hadithi inayohusu mwokozi anayekufa, aina ya hadithi iliyokuwa ikitangazwa rasmi wakati huo kwa ajili ya Antinous aliyekufa.

Jagina said:

The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery – of hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague – is incalculable.​

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history​

Click to expand...

The statement "The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Islam savagery" points to a broad and highly contentious historical theme, often cited by critics, historians, and political analysts who examine the socio-economic, human, and cultural impacts of Islamic conquests, regimes, and expansionism over the last 1,400 to 1,500 years.
When critics and scholars itemize the "costs" or negative impacts attributed to these historical centuries, they generally categorize them into human casualties, cultural destruction, economic disruption, and systemic human rights suppressions.
Below are 20 specific points frequently cited by historians and critics regarding the historical and modern costs attributed to these periods:

1. Human Casualties and Mass Fatality

• The Conquest of India: Historians like Will Durant described the Islamic conquest of the Indian subcontinent as one of the bloodiest stories in history, resulting in millions of deaths over several centuries.
• The Arab Conquests of the Levant and North Africa: Initial 7th-century expansions caused significant civilian casualties during the siege and fall of major Byzantine and Persian cities.
• The Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek Genocides: The late Ottoman Empire (1915–1923) systematically exterminated over 1.5 million Christian minorities.
• Modern Jihadist Insurgencies: The 20th and 21st-century rise of global terror groups (e.g., ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram) has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths globally.

2. The Trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean Slave Trades

• The Arab Slave Trade: Estimated to have captured, trafficked, and enslaved between 10 to 18 million Africans over a millennium.
• High Mortality Rates during Transit: Millions of enslaved people died during forced marches across the Sahara Desert or during maritime transport.
• Forced Castration: The widespread practice of castrating male African slaves in the Middle East resulted in a massive loss of life due to primitive surgical methods and meant they could not reproduce.
• European and Slavic Enslavement: Barbary pirates enslaved over 1 million Europeans between the 16th and 19th centuries, raiding coastal villages as far north as Iceland.

3. Destruction of Cultural and Intellectual Heritage

• The Library of Alexandria: While its decline was gradual, historical records attribute its final complete erasure to the 7th-century Arab conquests.
• Nalanda University: The destruction of this ancient Buddhist center of learning in India by Bakhtiyar Khalji in 1193 led to the burning of millions of manuscripts and the slaughter of thousands of monks.
• Zoroastrian and Persian Heritage: The fall of the Sasanian Empire led to the systematic burning of Persian libraries and the suppression of local languages and literature.
• Modern Iconoclasm: The destruction of priceless global heritage sites, such as the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan and the ancient ruins of Palmyra in Syria by modern extremist groups.

4. Suppression of Indigenous Religions and Cultures

• The Near-Extinction of Zoroastrianism: Once the dominant religion of Persia, centuries of heavy taxation, persecution, and forced conversions reduced it to a tiny minority.
• The Eradication of North African Christian Culture: Pre-Islamic North Africa was a major hub of Christian theology (home to St. Augustine); centuries of pressure completely extinguished this indigenous community.
• The Demise of Buddhism in Central Asia: Flourishing Buddhist kingdoms along the Silk Road were completely replaced following medieval military campaigns.

5. Economic and Social Subjugation

• The Dhimmi System and Jizya Tax: Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule were subjected to a special protection tax (Jizya) and legal second-class status (Dhimmitude), which economically drained minority communities over generations.
• The Devshirme System (Blood Tax): The Ottoman Empire forcibly removed young Christian boys from their families in the Balkans, converted them to Islam, and trained them as Janissary soldiers.
• Institutional Subjugation of Women: Centuries of legal frameworks regarding women as legal minors, limiting their freedom of movement, education, and autonomy in many historical and modern Islamic states.
• Modern Economic Stagnation in Conflict Zones: The continuous presence of radical religious governance in regions like Somalia, Yemen, and parts of the Sahel has crippled modern infrastructural and economic development.
• The Global Cost of Anti-Terrorism: The trillions of dollars spent globally in the 21st century on homeland security, military campaigns, and counter-terrorism measures to combat modern radical extremist movements.

---

Ila wakenya 😁

Uongo WA wazi

Yoda said:

Muhammad alikopi mambo ya Ukristo na Uyahudi akichanganya na kuchukua mambo kutoka mainstream/Orthodox dogma pamoja na kutoka kwa gnosticism.

Click to expand...

una hoja pia akakutana na padre muulizew sheikh yeyote na watakuambia alifundishwa dini na padre

Mkulukumwao Mndewa said:

View attachment 3687241

Click to expand...

sanamu ya yesu

Yoda said:

Muhammad alikuwa meneja mfanyabiashara wa biashara za mke wake Bi Khadija. Alikuwa akikutana na Wayahudi na Wakristo kwenye misafara ya biashara (trade caravans) na huko ndiko alikotoka na masimulizi kutoka kwa Wayahudi na Wakristo aliyoyachukua na kuayaita wahyi akaanzisha dini yake ya Uislamu.

Click to expand...

uko sawa kabisa

Papaaa mukuubwaaa said:

The statement "The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Islam savagery" points to a broad and highly contentious historical theme, often cited by critics, historians, and political analysts who examine the socio-economic, human, and cultural impacts of Islamic conquests, regimes, and expansionism over the last 1,400 to 1,500 years.
When critics and scholars itemize the "costs" or negative impacts attributed to these historical centuries, they generally categorize them into human casualties, cultural destruction, economic disruption, and systemic human rights suppressions.
Below are 20 specific points frequently cited by historians and critics regarding the historical and modern costs attributed to these periods:

1. Human Casualties and Mass Fatality

• The Conquest of India: Historians like Will Durant described the Islamic conquest of the Indian subcontinent as one of the bloodiest stories in history, resulting in millions of deaths over several centuries.
• The Arab Conquests of the Levant and North Africa: Initial 7th-century expansions caused significant civilian casualties during the siege and fall of major Byzantine and Persian cities.
• The Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek Genocides: The late Ottoman Empire (1915–1923) systematically exterminated over 1.5 million Christian minorities.
• Modern Jihadist Insurgencies: The 20th and 21st-century rise of global terror groups (e.g., ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram) has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths globally.

2. The Trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean Slave Trades

• The Arab Slave Trade: Estimated to have captured, trafficked, and enslaved between 10 to 18 million Africans over a millennium.
• High Mortality Rates during Transit: Millions of enslaved people died during forced marches across the Sahara Desert or during maritime transport.
• Forced Castration: The widespread practice of castrating male African slaves in the Middle East resulted in a massive loss of life due to primitive surgical methods and meant they could not reproduce.
• European and Slavic Enslavement: Barbary pirates enslaved over 1 million Europeans between the 16th and 19th centuries, raiding coastal villages as far north as Iceland.

3. Destruction of Cultural and Intellectual Heritage

• The Library of Alexandria: While its decline was gradual, historical records attribute its final complete erasure to the 7th-century Arab conquests.
• Nalanda University: The destruction of this ancient Buddhist center of learning in India by Bakhtiyar Khalji in 1193 led to the burning of millions of manuscripts and the slaughter of thousands of monks.
• Zoroastrian and Persian Heritage: The fall of the Sasanian Empire led to the systematic burning of Persian libraries and the suppression of local languages and literature.
• Modern Iconoclasm: The destruction of priceless global heritage sites, such as the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan and the ancient ruins of Palmyra in Syria by modern extremist groups.

4. Suppression of Indigenous Religions and Cultures

• The Near-Extinction of Zoroastrianism: Once the dominant religion of Persia, centuries of heavy taxation, persecution, and forced conversions reduced it to a tiny minority.
• The Eradication of North African Christian Culture: Pre-Islamic North Africa was a major hub of Christian theology (home to St. Augustine); centuries of pressure completely extinguished this indigenous community.
• The Demise of Buddhism in Central Asia: Flourishing Buddhist kingdoms along the Silk Road were completely replaced following medieval military campaigns.

5. Economic and Social Subjugation

• The Dhimmi System and Jizya Tax: Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule were subjected to a special protection tax (Jizya) and legal second-class status (Dhimmitude), which economically drained minority communities over generations.
• The Devshirme System (Blood Tax): The Ottoman Empire forcibly removed young Christian boys from their families in the Balkans, converted them to Islam, and trained them as Janissary soldiers.
• Institutional Subjugation of Women: Centuries of legal frameworks regarding women as legal minors, limiting their freedom of movement, education, and autonomy in many historical and modern Islamic states.
• Modern Economic Stagnation in Conflict Zones: The continuous presence of radical religious governance in regions like Somalia, Yemen, and parts of the Sahel has crippled modern infrastructural and economic development.
• The Global Cost of Anti-Terrorism: The trillions of dollars spent globally in the 21st century on homeland security, military campaigns, and counter-terrorism measures to combat modern radical extremist movements.

---

Click to expand...

Jesus does NOT love his own enemies

In the most famous utterances of all time, JC mouthed well-intentioned but disastrous bad advice:

“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” – Matthew 5.44.

“Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” – Matthew 5.39.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Who are we kidding? Try telling that one to Born Again Trump. Hating enemies, punishing wrong-doers, bringing retribution to the wicked are as natural and as necessary as daylight. Even Jesus does not heed his own advice, threatening those who don’t believe in him with hell:

“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be damned”
– Mark 16.16

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In any event, Christians have always in practice preferred the principle of “See that other guy’s land? Let’s go grab it!” And don’t be fooled by all that “love your neighbour” stuff. Even the mythical Jesus Christ is no paragon of virtue!

Papaaa mukuubwaaa said:

The statement "The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Islam savagery" points to a broad and highly contentious historical theme, often cited by critics, historians, and political analysts who examine the socio-economic, human, and cultural impacts of Islamic conquests, regimes, and expansionism over the last 1,400 to 1,500 years.
When critics and scholars itemize the "costs" or negative impacts attributed to these historical centuries, they generally categorize them into human casualties, cultural destruction, economic disruption, and systemic human rights suppressions.
Below are 20 specific points frequently cited by historians and critics regarding the historical and modern costs attributed to these periods:

1. Human Casualties and Mass Fatality

• The Conquest of India: Historians like Will Durant described the Islamic conquest of the Indian subcontinent as one of the bloodiest stories in history, resulting in millions of deaths over several centuries.
• The Arab Conquests of the Levant and North Africa: Initial 7th-century expansions caused significant civilian casualties during the siege and fall of major Byzantine and Persian cities.
• The Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek Genocides: The late Ottoman Empire (1915–1923) systematically exterminated over 1.5 million Christian minorities.
• Modern Jihadist Insurgencies: The 20th and 21st-century rise of global terror groups (e.g., ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram) has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths globally.

2. The Trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean Slave Trades

• The Arab Slave Trade: Estimated to have captured, trafficked, and enslaved between 10 to 18 million Africans over a millennium.
• High Mortality Rates during Transit: Millions of enslaved people died during forced marches across the Sahara Desert or during maritime transport.
• Forced Castration: The widespread practice of castrating male African slaves in the Middle East resulted in a massive loss of life due to primitive surgical methods and meant they could not reproduce.
• European and Slavic Enslavement: Barbary pirates enslaved over 1 million Europeans between the 16th and 19th centuries, raiding coastal villages as far north as Iceland.

3. Destruction of Cultural and Intellectual Heritage

• The Library of Alexandria: While its decline was gradual, historical records attribute its final complete erasure to the 7th-century Arab conquests.
• Nalanda University: The destruction of this ancient Buddhist center of learning in India by Bakhtiyar Khalji in 1193 led to the burning of millions of manuscripts and the slaughter of thousands of monks.
• Zoroastrian and Persian Heritage: The fall of the Sasanian Empire led to the systematic burning of Persian libraries and the suppression of local languages and literature.
• Modern Iconoclasm: The destruction of priceless global heritage sites, such as the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan and the ancient ruins of Palmyra in Syria by modern extremist groups.

4. Suppression of Indigenous Religions and Cultures

• The Near-Extinction of Zoroastrianism: Once the dominant religion of Persia, centuries of heavy taxation, persecution, and forced conversions reduced it to a tiny minority.
• The Eradication of North African Christian Culture: Pre-Islamic North Africa was a major hub of Christian theology (home to St. Augustine); centuries of pressure completely extinguished this indigenous community.
• The Demise of Buddhism in Central Asia: Flourishing Buddhist kingdoms along the Silk Road were completely replaced following medieval military campaigns.

5. Economic and Social Subjugation

• The Dhimmi System and Jizya Tax: Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule were subjected to a special protection tax (Jizya) and legal second-class status (Dhimmitude), which economically drained minority communities over generations.
• The Devshirme System (Blood Tax): The Ottoman Empire forcibly removed young Christian boys from their families in the Balkans, converted them to Islam, and trained them as Janissary soldiers.
• Institutional Subjugation of Women: Centuries of legal frameworks regarding women as legal minors, limiting their freedom of movement, education, and autonomy in many historical and modern Islamic states.
• Modern Economic Stagnation in Conflict Zones: The continuous presence of radical religious governance in regions like Somalia, Yemen, and parts of the Sahel has crippled modern infrastructural and economic development.
• The Global Cost of Anti-Terrorism: The trillions of dollars spent globally in the 21st century on homeland security, military campaigns, and counter-terrorism measures to combat modern radical extremist movements.

---

Click to expand...

Kudanganya kwa Ajili ya Mungu – Kuiga na Kukuza Uongo!​

“Hakuna jambo rahisi kama kutumia maneno mengi ili kudanganya umati wa watu wa kawaida au waumini wasio na elimu.”

— Mtakatifu Jerome (Epistle to Nepotian, Lii, 8)

Click to expand...

Je, wafuasi wa Kristo waliamua kwa makusudi kusema uongo? Je, walikuwa matapeli wasio na aibu waliotunga habari za uongo na udanganyifu ili kujinufaisha na kufanikisha malengo yao?

Kwa mujibu wa madai yaliyotolewa katika maandishi haya, jibu ni ndiyo. Ukristo ni Uongo.

Huenda Wakristo wa mwanzo waliamini dini yao kwa dhati. Imani hiyo iliweza kuwafanya baadhi yao wawe na msimamo mkali kiasi cha kuwa tayari kufa au kuua wengine kwa ajili ya imani yao. Lakini kuwa na imani hakumaanishi kwamba mtu lazima awe mwaminifu kwa ukweli wa mambo.


Mawazo ya kidini yanaweza kukua hatua kwa hatua. Watu wanaoamini kuwa wanaelewa ukweli wa juu zaidi huwasaidia wengine kufikia uelewa huo kwa kutumia mbinu mbalimbali.

Katika mila za Kiyahudi, mojawapo ya mbinu hizo iliitwa “Midrash.” Hii ni njia ya kutafsiri maandiko matakatifu ya zamani na kupata maana mpya zinazohusiana na maisha na matatizo ya wakati huo.

Kwa njia hiyo, waandishi wa maandiko waliweza kueleza tatizo la wakati wao kwa kutafsiri kile walichodai kuwa maandiko yalikuwa yakimaanisha tangu mwanzo.

Je, kufanya hivyo kulikuwa kusema uongo?

Njia nyingine iliyotumika sana zamani ilikuwa kuhusisha maandishi na mwandishi ambaye hakuyatunga. Hili lilikuwa jambo lililofanyika katika zama za kale.

Maandishi mengi katika Biblia ya Kiebrania na Agano Jipya yanadaiwa kuwa yaliandikwa kwa majina ya watu wengine ili yaonekane kuwa na mamlaka na kuaminika.

Kwa njia hiyo, watu waliweza kuamini zaidi yale yaliyowasilishwa kwao kama “ukweli wa juu zaidi.” Kwa mfano, ni nani ambaye angeweza kupinga maneno ikiwa yangehusishwa na Sulemani au mitume wa Bwana?

mmmh!! 🤔, ngumu kumeza hii

Lee Van free said:

View attachment 3673029

Ukizoom utaona Mwamba alikua ana nywele za Rasta .
Nywele na ndevu za kipilipili.
Inaonesha kama Mwamba alikua Mtu mweusi.

Click to expand...

Hakuna uhalisia! Ni fix tu

Za kuambiwa changanya na za kwako...


Cc: Mahondaw

Mfalme mfufuka

Uliyepost huu Uzi t

Lee Van free said:

View attachment 3673003
Picha hii ilipigwa na Sista Anna Ali mwaka 1987 kutoka Kenya.

Sista alitokewa na Yesu mwenyewe,akamuomba Bwana wetu ampige picha,Bwana Yesu akamkubalia .
Hii ni kweli.

Hakuna kisichowezekana kwa Mungu
Kumbukumbu zipo.

Picha ya Muujiza ya Yesu Inayodaiwa Kupigwa na Mtawa​

Picha inayosambaa sana mtandaoni ikitajwa kuwa “picha ya muujiza ya Yesu iliyopigwa na mtawa” inahusishwa na picha iliyodaiwa kupigwa mwaka 1987 na Sister Anna Ali, mtawa kutoka Kenya wa Shirika la Congregation of the Most Holy Eucharist.

Simulizi na Maelezo​

Tukio la Yesu kujitokeza:
Sister Anna Ali alidai kwamba Yesu Kristo alimtokea katika chumba chake mjini Rome, Italia, tarehe 8 Septemba 1987, na kwamba alikutana naye mara kadhaa kati ya mwaka 1987 na 1991.

Kupigwa kwa picha:
Kwa mujibu wa ushuhuda wake, Sister Anna alishindwa kuchora kile alichokuwa akikiona. Hivyo, alimuomba Yesu ruhusa ya kumpiga picha. Baada ya kudaiwa kupewa ruhusa, alitumia kamera yake kupiga picha ya sura hiyo iliyokuwa iking'aa.

Muonekano wa picha:
Picha inayodaiwa kutokea inaonyesha sura ya mwanaume mwenye nywele ndefu nyeusi, ndevu, macho yenye huzuni na amevaa vazi jekundu, huku akiwa amezungukwa na mwanga. Pia kuna picha nyingine inayohusishwa na simulizi hilo inayoonyesha mtu huyo akiwa na machozi ya damu.

Msimamo wa Kanisa Katoliki:
Kanisa Katoliki la Roma halijawahi kuthibitisha rasmi wala kutambua maono hayo au picha hiyo kuwa tukio la kimiujiza. Kwa hiyo, picha hizo hazichukuliwi rasmi kama mabaki matakatifu (relics) au miujiza iliyothibitishwa na Kanisa.

Kwa upande wa wakosoaji na watafiti, maelezo ya aina hii yamehusishwa na uwezekano wa pareidolia—hali ambayo ubongo hutambua sura au maumbo yanayofahamika katika picha zisizo wazi—pamoja na uwezekano wa picha hiyo kuwa tukio lisilothibitishwa au sehemu ya sanaa na ibada za kidini.

Kwa mujibu wa simulizi linalohusishwa na Sister Anna Ali, maelezo zaidi kuhusu maisha yake na matukio hayo ya kiroho yanaweza kupatikana kwenye tovuti yake rasmi.

Click to expand...

Unatakiwa kutubu maana HUO ni uongo

Lwiva said:

AKILI ZA KIANITHI KAMA HIXI WANAMILIKI ZAIDI MAKADA WA CCM...HUYU APEWE BLUE TIK HARAKA SANA.

Click to expand...