Property Market in DAR...


Ndugu yangu pangupakavu, let me tell you as a Land Economist and a real estate dealer in Tanzania.

Kwanza inabidi uelewe kwamba the property market value is affected by location, location and location. ukiongelea residential properties hapa Dar, kwa properties za Masaki (Peninsula), O'bay Ada Estate na Upanga, those properties are competing with those in London. You know WHY? Senior Staff wa UN, mabalozi na senior staff wa kwenye embasies as well as other expatriates prefer to live in this prime posh areas na wale wachovu kidogo will opt for Regent Mikocheni, Mikocheni B na hata wengine wachovu kabis a wataishi mbezi Beach maeneo ya Jangwani Sea breeze na Bahari Beach. I am giving you this from proffesional point of view and this has been my day to day business.

For a two bedroom fully furnished apartment in areas of Masaki, O'bay, Upanga na Ada estates, the price is not below 1700 USD. And a free standing home Villa(Standalone in a compound) the minimum price you can get is USD 5000, all these rentals are paid annually in advance.

Price ya one acre bare land plot is as not below 1.5Mil USD. na watu wananunua knowing the will recover the loan and the pay back s not such longer.

Kuhusu economic crunch iliyotokea kwa wenzetu hapa inawezatokea may be in office block/parks investments because of high rised bulding mushrooming in all parts of Dar es Salaam, being in the city centre or in peri urban areas.

Kwa residential ni ngumu kwani maeneo tajwa hapo juu kuna bulding rules and regulation ambazo zinalimit ya development on vertical construction, making the scarcity of homes to increase as land is fixed in supply but the demands for homes inreases now and then.

Nikukumbushe pia kwamba Dar es Salaam is said to be the 5th city in the word for apartments prices, japo maeneo kama mbagala unawezapanga nyumba nzima kwa Tshs 50,000, IT IS ALL ABOUT LOCATION MZEE and above all proximity to town.
 
Sijui valuations zao wanatoa wapi? kwani hata mdhamana wa mafisadi unaoneka kwenye mabilions,matokeo yake they managed to raise bail within few days.My point of view is that not every fisadi got billions in properties............
 


Ndio location ina-matter. Lakini wewe kama ni mchumi wa mambo ya real-estate ni lazima ukumbuke kuwa zaidi ya 70% ya DSM ni skwata. Na hizo sehemu ulizotaja zenye gharama zilikuwa developed wakati DSM ina wakazi chini ya laki saba.

Hivyo kama sehemu zingine zingeweza kuwa developed kufikia kiwango cha osterbay gharama za nyumba zingeshuka. Hivyo principal ya supply and demand, ndio inayofanya bei huko kuwa kubwa hapa sio location zenyewe.

Vilevile DSM ni mji mdogo sana, hivyo suala la proximity na City Center unaongezwa na msongamano wa magari na miundo mbinu mibovu. Hakuna umbali wowote kutoka Pugu kuja DSM town center. Hakuna umbali wowote wa kutoka Kimara kuja DSM town center.

Masaki, O'bay, Upanga na Ada estates hazina uwezo wowote wa ku-compete na London. Ni kushindwa kwetu ku-develop sehemu zingine ndio kunakofanya demand kuwa kubwa.


Tusifikiri kuwa hayo mashirika makubwa yanapenda kutumia pesa nyingi katika nyumba wanazokaa wafanyakazi wao. Missions ya mashirika mengi sio kukaa Osterbay, Ada au Masaki. Hivyo utumiaji wao mkubwa katika masuala unaathiri bajeti zao. Na ndio sababu kubwa Tanzania pamoja na kupokea misaada mingi bado ni nchi masikini.
 

Mhhhhhh...,dar the 5th city kwa apartment prices!!...sighs,
i wouldn't honestly call Dar a City,if i were to compare it with cities around the world.It's is more of a town with chunks of houses all over the place.i love the place.with it's vigor and all but yet that's the truth.

saying dar is competing with london,paris,NY,chicago,LA,Tokyo and such cities is such an exaggeration my friend.

dar wouldn't even give a smallest challenge to places like Arkansas etc..,suppsed to be like the among the most backwards in US.leo hii unasema dar ina-compete na london!!!jeez!!

when u give such claims back them up with relevant criteria s ndugu!are u talking about the median price,mean price,maximum price or what??or is that your simple assumptions?!

also,if you think paying $5K for an apartment that is 5kms from dar center is such a problem for organizations like UN and such..,then you have no idea how much they can afford.
u think $5k is some much cuz that's what highest paid Tanzanians are paid.(siongelei RUSWA na UFISADI).BUT that's is just a fraction of what those guys are paid.PLUS most of them given allowances for their housing.or the agencies just take care of that.

u guys from real estate all u think about is profit and selling...,those UN et al guys have no where sound to live..,they wouldn't live in kibaha.will they?!

i personally have no problem with them affording the properties.the simple truth is.the properties ain't worth $1.5M!!

if they are worth $1.5M why aren't they buying?they just rent!they are smart!they know once some smart guys takes over TZ and dicscovers that for 60 years we have been circling around same old colonial British planned dar.and, decides to stop the mess for good by building proper infrastructure,create a city master plan,prices of those $1.5M houses will peak now here near $100K!!
those UN executives will have no problems taking subways from Suburban Bunju to posta cuz they are used to just that from New Hamptons to NY daily.

Those EXECUTIVES will find it smart to drive through a Highway built from PUGU to OBAY bila tatizo cuz that's what they do in TOKYO!

and U know what?!those $1.5M compounds will serve nothing but homes for divorcees and some Mid-crisis Executives..,and they will be lucky to chuck in $500 a month.

UNTIL THEN IT"S JUST ONE BIG BUBBLE,ONE BIG LIE.
 

What type of government intervention do you believe would be appropriate in the real estate market? I don't think it is a good idea for the government to have direct influence on the real estate pricing. That's bad for everyone. Think about it. You have worked hard all your life, saved enough to buy land and build a house then the government tells you the maximum you can rent that house for or the maximum amount you can sell that house for. The incentive to invest in real estate would be lowered in my opinion. The government has a role to play. It can expand the infrastructure, build reliable roads to the outskirts of the city and people will build affordable homes in the outskirts of the city.
 

i am not a gov regulator,but everywhere i have lived,apart from TZ,prices of houses are regulated,per sq m,per location,etc.

one thing i can tell u for sure is,Especially US won't let that unregulated Housing market that just happened during the dot com era.

ask Current treasure secretary of US,people like Greenspan.unregulated property market is a big problem.

what amazes me,is people in the US example,had reasons for the bubble...,the economy was looking good,people had money,everyone had a job..,even a pizza delivery guy was feeling good!!
so overspending on a house was natural,people felt good about the economy and naturally their spending habits were loose in nature.

comparing that situation to the one we have now leaves me with more questions,People are near bankrupt,salaries are at minimum satisfactory level,costs of living has risen,banks don't have money,inflation is high.
the right situation would BE low housing prices..,even if there was no regulation.


THAT SAYS we have a VERY EVIL REGULATION of property market.the one that is controled by those indians,and real estate guys.the one that stinks of corruption.

i wouldn't think of Tanzania having perfect regulations,because even so so regulations we have now are not inforced.

i would think of a more direct approach that would eliminate the whole need for these indians cheaters,again CORRUPTION!!

thats when people say Tanzania is helpless...,in some ways.POOR GOVERNANCE and CORRUPTION.

they take a genius to battle,and it seems we don't have any signs of that in the current administration.

it is observed that, THE WEST HAS THE BEST SYSTEMS,AND THE WORST LEADERS(bush etc).WHILE THE EAST HAS THE WORST SYSTEM and THE BEST LEADERS(look at china,very committed and intelligent leaders in a country with a very inefficient system).

that says that any fella can govern a western gov(bush was there 4 8 years!!and no world war happened!lol i assume iraq and afghanistan are just a minor case),BUT it takes a real smart guy to govern an eastern government.

BUT IN AFRICA.especially Tanzania.it takes an intelligent guy and a better system for us to develop,we dont have that,hence...,look at where we are...,
 

I have not seen any evidence that America regulates real estate pricing. As far as I know, you can sell your house for as much as someone is willing to pay for it. That is the real estate market determines the pricing. Government regulations can play other parts I suppose but they should not have a direct influence on real estate pricing. Even if the government forces Indians to sell or rent their houses at prices that a common man can afford, that still will not solve anything as there will be people left out simply because of supply shortage. On top of all that, real estate investment would go down as I have stated earlier. So in effect the government would be robbing Paul (Indians) to pay Peter (non-Indians) and nothing of value is added nor created. It is a zero-sum gain and the housing problem will remain.
 
hili jambo ni jepesi kwa wale waliosoma pale IFM watatupa mchanganuo wa kodi ikiwa una nyumba ya $1.5 million hapo Dar kwaharaka tu kodi yako inaanzia vipi ulizalisha pesa hiyo na kodi ya muda huo hapo tunakata kodi kwa thamani ya asset
 
Having a $1.5million property in Tanzania is a myth which has been created by the current fisadis saga by overvaluing their properties to meet the bailing values. Hivi Yona na Mramba waliweka nyumba ngapi kupata dhamana?, kama ni nyumba 1 au 2 au 4 ni uwongo mkubwa na overvaluation of the properties kama kila mmoja aliweka nyuma 15 za masaki hapo nitakubali zinaweza fikia Tshs 2.5 billion. Vinginevyo ni kiini macho cha kimahakama ambacho madhara yake ndiyo haya. Watu kusema mbona nyumba fulani iliwekewa dhamana mahakamani kwa thamani ya Tshs 4 billion, basi na yangu itakuwa na thamani hiyo hiyo bila kujiuliza miaka kumi iliyopita nyumba hiyo kaijenga kwa Tshs 30 millions.
 

They do,But in a smarter way.let say u buy a house for $1m and u go 2 bank of america 2 ask for collateral,they send people 2 make sure it's worth that.
so if u buy a $2m for $15m never ever think it will be worth $15m!!it is still a $2m property.nadhani tumeelewana.

on the other hand kuna jamaa wa IRS,they report people's income..,u can't just walk inside a real estate office and buy a $5m house.u have to show proof of income that,u got that in a clean way.of course there are a lot of shady deals going around.BUT unless u r willing to risk it.u won't be stupid enough to dump ur money in a pit.
how does this affect real estate?!if it were in TZ?hao wahindi wasingepata wateja i assure u.hata hao mawaziri,sijui wabunge...,they don't make enough clean money to finance even a $200k house.and if they manage..,which i doubt.not in multiple numbers we see now.Period!

nchi nyingine kama japan,china and korea.governments set value/sq meter for new projects.therefore its plain simple,u buy a 200sqm apartment u pay more than a guy who bought a 100sqm apartment.and this is regulated per different zones of cities,lets say tokyo,nagoya etc.,
VERY clear..,

there are so many ways they regulate these things....,won't go into details.

all i know in TZ there are so many ways they do the oppposite!!
 

Unajiuliza maswali na kujijibu mwenyewe!!!!!!! VERY INTERESTING! It seems like you are talking the talk. Sasa kama huku "UZUNGUNI" miundombinu iko bomba unategemea bei iwe sawa na properties za PUGU. Tusubiri huko Pugu na Bunju nako kuwe na infrastructure za kurahisisha kufika mjini kirahisi then ndo ulete hoja yako. Lets talk on real issues and facts not hypothesis, we discussing what is happening now on the ground not otherwise.
 
bulesi said:
Itakuja kucrash hela za wakina lukaza zikirudishwa!!
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Property markets zilikuwa juu sana kutokana na fedha ya EPA. Walikuwepo wanunuzi wa muda na ambao walikuwa na fedha nyingi sana za EPA.
Kuna properties zilizonunuliwa mara 5 ya thamani yake,mradi wana-EPA wawili wamegongana hapo.
Sio uongo kwamba bei zimeanza kuteremka polepole kwa sasa hivi, baada ya artificial high.
 

My friend PANGUPAKAVU, the world is as a village know, if you think Dar can not compete with western properties just visit UK, US and Dubai property prices and compare those with Dar es Salaam. Kwanini tuandikie mate?: Tusiwe na yale mawazo ya Mtanzania hawezi kumiliki ndege au kumiliki nyumba Londoni, open up your minds. Tafuta bei za apartments, town houses na villa as well as bei za plots. Tena kwa South Africa ndo much cheaper. NO RESEARCH NO RIGHT TO SPEAK!

You say real estate guys are profit oriented. Is there any businessman who is loss oriented anyway. just to remind you that socialism eras have been swept under the carpet since time memorial, IT IS CAPITALIST ERA MY FRIEND. Besides, who determines the property price? valuers always give opinion of value but the market value is determined by forces of demand and supply. Au hujawi kuona nyumba inauzwa na bei haitangazwi but watu wa-bid, na the highest bidder ndo anauziwa nyumba. It is all about the market forces mzee, hapa hakuna kutafuta mchawi.

hujaona nyumba za Sinza, chumba na sebule, tena upand mwenye nyumba anataka kodi ya tshs 150,000 kwa mwezi tena unalipa miezi 12, hutaki kuna mwingine yupo tayari kulipa hata laki 200. siku demands zikiamia mbagala hivyo hivyo!
 

i never said paying laki mbili sinza is impossible,and if you think paying laki mbili is a lot of money sawa eeh...,
Lakini am talking realities..,kununua nyumba london na kununua nyumba dar are 2 different things!!kama unabisha hayaa..,
sikatai dunia ni kijiji..,BUT if u even think housing quality ya Dar na LONDON ni sawa,then hilo ni tatizo lako.

I dont need to do research i have lived in most places u have mentions except SA,and i have real life experience on that.

what's important is affording the property.not the price.kama wewe unafikiria mtanzania anaweza ku-afford property LONDON then u are not on par with reality.

UNLESS awe fisadi,BUT kwa median salary ya nyumbani hiyo ni IMPOSSIBLE!

hao wanaonunua nyumba za $1.5m ni wezi,Period.

what amazes me is how stupid they are,cause the properties aint even worth that in the first place!

Najua watanzania tunamsemo 'bongo kama mamtoni".HELL NO!!not even close,tunajipa moyo..which is a good thing,but we have a long way to go.

kwenye bei za nyumba tunasema tuko nao sawa,ikifika wakati wa barabara na vitu vya msingi tunasema kule ulaya bwana!
 
MJASIRIA-MALI

naona unapenda sana ku-GOOGLE!

for your own good as u said it,it took me 20 seconds to give you what u wanted."research" au vipi..,we (DAR) are not on par with any city around the world.
follow this linkMost Expensive Cities 2008 - Real Estate Prices

Apartment purchase prices per square meter in major cities, in US dollars. Prices are indicative and they apply to existing apartments of 120 square meters in city centers. London is shown in 2 categories, the super-premium areas of "prime central London", which includes Belgravia, Chelsea, Mayfair, Notting Hill, Knightsbridge, Regent's Park, South Kensington, St. John's Woods, and St. James; and "other luxury".

Rank City, Country Price
------- ------------------------- --------
1 London (Prime), United Kingdom 24,250
2 Upper Manhattan, New York, USA 15,933
3 Moscow, Russia 15,531
4 London (Other Luxury), UK 15,202
5 Paris, France 13,826
6 Hong Kong 12,599
7 Tokyo, Japan 11,870
8 Singapore 11,800
9 Mumbai, India 10,222
10 Barcelona, Spain 9,871
11 Geneva, Switzerland 7,534
12 Zurich, Switzerland 7,376
13 Sydney, Australia 7,085
14 Madrid, Spain 7,021
15 Turks and Caicos Islands 5,724
16 Tel Aviv, Israel 5,021
17 Toronto, Canada 4,737
18 Auckland, New Zealand 4,438
19 Warsaw, Poland 4,383
20 Cayman Islands 4,234
21 Dubai, United Arab Emirates 4,066
22 Bahamas 3,998
23 Montreal, Canada 3,779
24 Munich, Germany 3,613
25 Saint Petersburg, Russia 3,417
26 Shanghai, China 3,318
27 Trinidad and Tobago 3,174
28 Athens, Greece 3,170
29 Frankfurt, Germany 2,843
30 Bangkok, Thailand 2,819
31 Cape Town, South Africa 2,784
32 Berlin, Germany 2,462
33 Beijing, China 2,282
34 New Delhi, India 2,107
35 Sofia, Bulgaria 2,032
36 Marrakech, Morocco 1,973
37 Manila, Philippines 1,969
38 Istanbul, Turkey 1,867
39 Panama City, Panama 1,783
40 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 1,400
41 Johannesburg, South Africa 1,376
42 Amman, Jordan 1,261
43 San Jose, Costa Rica 1,255
44 Beirut, Lebanon 1,237
45 Jakarta, Indonesia 1,068
46 Bangalore, India 980
47 Cairo, Egypt 569
 


Kumbe kule Dubai hela ya kawaida tu na naweza kubabea apprtment pale! Nakugopaga tu bila sababu.
 
mwanjelwa said:
Kumbe kule Dubai hela ya kawaida tu na naweza kubabea apprtment pale! Nakugopaga tu bila sababu.
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ndugu that is PER SQM!!

kwa kila mraba mmoja wa meter..,sijui unanielewa?kwa nyumba zeti za kitanzania,lets say ni kama 200SQM..,kwa hiyo chukua hizo gharama zidisha kwa 200!!upo hapo?
 

Kama ni hivyo msumari huo. Unachoma hovyohovyo na tetenus juu
 


whatever man.
 

So how does this scenario illustrate government regulations of real estate pricing? Just because a private or commercial bank does not believe your house is worth what you claim it's worth or what you have paid for does not make that a government regulation. You can still turn around and sell that same house for $17m if you could find someone willing to buy it.


I don't believe that is true. Of course I could be wrong so I would like to see proof of what you are talking about. A documentation that lists that a potential buyer has to provide proof that they got the money in a clean way would suffice.


You may crack down on the government officials but who is to stop someone selling or renting an expensive house to a private individual or expat or UN official etc?


I would like to see some proof of what you are saying. Are these new projects government or private owned?

I would also like to add, if America and Japan had real estate price regulations how come they too had a real estate bubble? How come there are expensive homes for sale in those countries? For example, the same sized house say 2000 sq. ft, the same design may cost you X amount of money in state A and Y amount of money in state B. It sounds to me that it is the market that determines how that same house is worth and what individuals are willing to pay for that house.
 
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