Very Keen not to go against its role as the big brother in East Africa,its said that President Kibaki has talked to President Kikwete secretly on the Migingo issue.Kibaki told Kikwete that kenya does not see it worthy confronting Uganda using its Military as this will cause untold missery to EAC spirit.However he told Kikwete to tell Museveni to back down on his plans to take Migingo by force becuase Kenya is far much advanced on its Millitary and if he will force him to go to war.....then Museveni should be ready for untold consequences.Do you see it worthy for Kenya to confront Uganda Militarily just as it did when Amin was president and in the early days of Musevenis term in office?
The Migingo Saga: Kenya vs Uganda, why?!
The Migingo Saga: Kenya vs Uganda, why?!
- Thread starter kayundi2
- Start date
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Hii Migingo ndio nini?
Kang
JF-Expert Member
- Jun 24, 2008
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Unakaona hako kadoti kwenye pini? Hiyo ndo ardhi wanayotaka kuuana kwa ajili yake! Ni kisiwa ndani ya Lake Victoria. JK asije akatuingiza mkenge hapa.
Masanja
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 1, 2007
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Piganeni watu wapate ajira. Maana NGOs zitafurika kuleta misosi ya wakimbizi-Lol!
But honestly naona Kenya na Uganda wote hawako serious..hivi kweli hicho kisiwa kimekaa hapo miaka mingapi? nani alikuwa anakimiliki? na mlipokabiziwa nchi zenu na hao wazungu wakati wa uhuru mliambiwa Migingo ni ya nani kati ya Kenya na Uganda? Si nilisikia wakubwa walisema mipaka ya wakoloni na iheshimiwe na wote? what happened to that?
Harafu Kenyans should stop fooling themselves kwamba mko militarily superior kwa Uganda. Mmepigana wapi mpaka mkaona kwamba mko superior? au kuwa na hivyo vijidege na kuambiwa kwamba mna bajeti kubwa (compared to your neighbours) ndo mnafikiri mnaweza kumtisha Museveni? Guys watch out..mtatolewa kamasi kama hamna akili nzuri..waganda maisha yao yote yamekuwa ya vita..mpaka leo..wako Congo, Sudan, CAR nk...kifupi these guys wamepigana na bado wanapigana vita na wanajua what it takes kupigana siyo hizo longo longo zenu...Infact sijui Kenya hata kama raia mnaenda Mgambo! Uganda they have Mchaka mchaka!
Kama unafikiri ni uongo waulize wamarekani na military superiority yao..walivyotolewa kamasi na Vietnam, Iraq na sasa Korea...
By the way I thought you should know better..baada ya nyinyi kwa nyinyi kugongana mapanga mwaka jana..mpaka leo watu wanaishi kwenye kambi za wakimbizi....hiyo lesson iko wapi mnayotaka kuexport kwa M7?
Haya yangu macho..
But honestly naona Kenya na Uganda wote hawako serious..hivi kweli hicho kisiwa kimekaa hapo miaka mingapi? nani alikuwa anakimiliki? na mlipokabiziwa nchi zenu na hao wazungu wakati wa uhuru mliambiwa Migingo ni ya nani kati ya Kenya na Uganda? Si nilisikia wakubwa walisema mipaka ya wakoloni na iheshimiwe na wote? what happened to that?
Harafu Kenyans should stop fooling themselves kwamba mko militarily superior kwa Uganda. Mmepigana wapi mpaka mkaona kwamba mko superior? au kuwa na hivyo vijidege na kuambiwa kwamba mna bajeti kubwa (compared to your neighbours) ndo mnafikiri mnaweza kumtisha Museveni? Guys watch out..mtatolewa kamasi kama hamna akili nzuri..waganda maisha yao yote yamekuwa ya vita..mpaka leo..wako Congo, Sudan, CAR nk...kifupi these guys wamepigana na bado wanapigana vita na wanajua what it takes kupigana siyo hizo longo longo zenu...Infact sijui Kenya hata kama raia mnaenda Mgambo! Uganda they have Mchaka mchaka!
Kama unafikiri ni uongo waulize wamarekani na military superiority yao..walivyotolewa kamasi na Vietnam, Iraq na sasa Korea...
By the way I thought you should know better..baada ya nyinyi kwa nyinyi kugongana mapanga mwaka jana..mpaka leo watu wanaishi kwenye kambi za wakimbizi....hiyo lesson iko wapi mnayotaka kuexport kwa M7?
Haya yangu macho..
Abdulhalim
Platinum Member
- Jul 20, 2007
- 17,215
- 3,076
Hii habari haina kichwa wala miguu. Hiyo post # 1 ni imekaa ki-utamuutamu...
Mwana wa Mungu
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 14, 2008
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Kikwete, bora uwe upande wa uganda, hicho kisiwa ni cha uganda. angalieni vizuri. wakenya wabishi wahivyohivyo.
Mwana wa Mungu
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mseveni sio chizi hata akapeleka majeshi kule, lazima atakuwa na sababu nzuri tu.
Ubungoubungo
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- Jul 28, 2008
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hata akienda kuwasaidia, watasema Anani ndo amewasaidia, kikwete huwa hapewi heshima yake. tuliwasaidie wasiuane pale juzi wakasema ni anan. wameona panauma wanakuja kwetu tena. kiwete, opsss sory, Kikwete, ukienda, lalia uganda mwaya, sema kile kisiwa ni cha uganda. kuna evidence kuwa kisiwa kile ni cha uganda ndio maana m7 ameng'ang'ania. wakenya hawana ardhi na ni wabishi wa hivyihivyo kama wengine mnavyosema hapo juu ndio maana wanang'ang'ania hicho kiisiwa. sio chao.badae watasema hata kilimanjaro yao. serengeti yao, pemba hata tanga.
Game Theory
JF-Expert Member
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halafu hawa wanataka eti tushare ardhi,kazi na vitambulisho
watwana sana hawa watu hawa
sasa nishapata idea..ngoja nitazame uwezo wa kijeshi wa KENYA
watwana sana hawa watu hawa
sasa nishapata idea..ngoja nitazame uwezo wa kijeshi wa KENYA
Mwana wa Mungu
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 14, 2008
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hapo ndo wana tuvunja mbavu hawa jamaa.
Details have emerged of how Uganda launched and executed operations to forcibly take the disputed Migingo Island near its border with Kenya.
A memo The Standard has uncovers the operation, code-named Restore Sanity, was launched on February 20, when Uganda entrenched its presence on the island.
And despite Uganda President Yoweri Musevenis feigning ignorance about the dispute, the combined force of Uganda Peoples Defence Air Force (UPDAF), Presidential Guard Brigade (PGB) marines, and police involved had his full backing.
The invasion of Migingo was against the inter-ministerial negotiations to resolve the dispute that has been raging on since 2004.
It has also emerged that Uganda, which caught Kenya off-guard over the Migingo saga, is now keen on "reclaiming" the island by intercepting any Kenyan military activity near the island.
Confidential memo
In a confidential memo written by the Ugandan Inspector-General of Police Edward Kale Kayihura, a copy of which is in our possession, the Ugandan Government claims that Kenya had initially agreed that Migingo was Ugandan territory.
"In fact, the two governments agreed that the current status of the island namely that it is Ugandan territory be maintained," the memo reads in part.
But it is on this premise that Migingo was in Uganda that Museveni launched the February 20 rapid assault to "reclaim" it from Kenya Administration Police "aggressors" on sovereign Ugandan territory.
In the memo, Major-Gen Kayihura argues that on February 18, about 35 Kenya police officers "violated Ugandan territory by invading Migingo Island, which at the time was manned by a Uganda police post with the strength of eight police personnel".
Soma zaidi hapa
A memo The Standard has uncovers the operation, code-named Restore Sanity, was launched on February 20, when Uganda entrenched its presence on the island.
And despite Uganda President Yoweri Musevenis feigning ignorance about the dispute, the combined force of Uganda Peoples Defence Air Force (UPDAF), Presidential Guard Brigade (PGB) marines, and police involved had his full backing.
The invasion of Migingo was against the inter-ministerial negotiations to resolve the dispute that has been raging on since 2004.
It has also emerged that Uganda, which caught Kenya off-guard over the Migingo saga, is now keen on "reclaiming" the island by intercepting any Kenyan military activity near the island.
Confidential memo
In a confidential memo written by the Ugandan Inspector-General of Police Edward Kale Kayihura, a copy of which is in our possession, the Ugandan Government claims that Kenya had initially agreed that Migingo was Ugandan territory.
"In fact, the two governments agreed that the current status of the island namely that it is Ugandan territory be maintained," the memo reads in part.
But it is on this premise that Migingo was in Uganda that Museveni launched the February 20 rapid assault to "reclaim" it from Kenya Administration Police "aggressors" on sovereign Ugandan territory.
In the memo, Major-Gen Kayihura argues that on February 18, about 35 Kenya police officers "violated Ugandan territory by invading Migingo Island, which at the time was manned by a Uganda police post with the strength of eight police personnel".
Soma zaidi hapa
Mwana wa Mungu
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 14, 2008
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congratulations to uganda for defending your land. msilegeze kamba, kazeni kamba hivyohivyo. watasema watachoka, migingo ni yenu waganda.
Lole Gwakisa
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 5, 2008
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Hivi ile analysis ya border bearings imeishia wapi?
Its no use arguing over things that can be resolved by naked facts.
Its no use arguing over things that can be resolved by naked facts.
Ab-Titchaz
JF-Expert Member
- Jan 30, 2008
- 14,630
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Wana-JF,
Hii ishu ya kisiwa cha Migingo baina ya Kenya na Uganda
inaendelea kua na vitisho na matamsho yasokubalika kutoka
kwa M7.Kwa kweli kama Raila angekua Rais wa Kenya,
there would have been a war if the offing bearing the statements made by M7 againstthe greater Luo community.Nimekusanya
hizi data kwenye makabrasha fulani na nataka maoni yenu
kuhusu u-military wa hawa ndugu zetu.
KENYA:
Army (40,000), the navy (1,000), the air force (4,000), and KDOD headquarters staff (200)
Equipment
* Vickers Mk3: 76
* T-72AV: 110 from Ukraine 77 in 2007 with more planned for delivery in 2008. 33 T-72's ordered from Ukraine were hijacked by Somalian pirates.[4] The MV Faina was released and the tanks unloaded in Mombasa Feb 2009. There have been doubts expressed as to whether the T-72s imported by Kenya are intended for use by the Kenyan Army. Instead, popular opinion is that they were being clandestinely imported for the southern Sudanese army, which has an arms embargo against it.[5]
* Recce: 72 x Panhard AML-60/-90, 12 x Ferret armoured car and 8 x Shorland armoured car;
* APC: 85 BRM Ukraine in 2007, WZ-551, 52 x Thyssen Henschel UR-416 and 1- x Panhard M-3 (in store);
* SP Artillery: 25 x 203mm 2S7 Pion ,35 x BM-21;
* Towed Arty: 48x 122mm, unknown x L-5 Pack Howitzer, 40x 105mm RO L118 Light Gun., Mortars: 50 x 81mm., and 12 x 120mm.,
25 x 203mm.,
* ATGW: 40 x MILAN, and 14 x Swingfire, RPG-7
* RCL 84mm: 80 x Carl Gustav recoilless rifle;
* AD Guns 20mm: 50 x TCM-20, and 11 x Oerlikon;
* AD Guns 23mm : 70 xZPU-4
* AD Guns 40mm: 13 x L/70.
* AD Missiles: BUK
* Small arms: G3 rifle
The Air Force has[6]
* Fighters: 7 x Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter figher aircraft. There are reports that Kenya seeks to purchase an additional 15 used F5 fighter jets from Jordan. [7]
* Transport (fixed wing): 7 x de Havilland Canada DHC-5D Buffalo, 12 x Harbin Y-12 (II), 10 x Piper PA-31 Navajo, 3 x de Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8, 1x Fokker 70 (VIP), and 6 Dornier Do 28D-2 (in store)
* Helicopters (Armed): 11 x Hughes 500MD Defender with TOW, 8 x Hughes 500ME Defender, and 15 x Hughes 500M Defender
* Helicopters (Transport) (9 x IAR 330 Puma, 13 x Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma, and 1 x Aérospatiale SA 342 Gazelle);
* Training Aircraft: 12 x Scottish Aviation Bulldog 103/127, 8 x BAe Hawk Mk 52, 12 x Shorts Tucano, and 2 x helicopter Hughes 500D.
The Air Force also has Air-to-Surface Missile (ASM) AGM-65 Maverick TOW, and Air-to-Air missile(AAM) AIM-9 Sidewinder.
Kenya's Navy has
* 10 x Missile Craft;
* 6 x Patrol and Coastal Combatants;
* 1 x Amphibious Craft; and 5 x Support Vessel.
The General Service Unit's Air Wing
comprises 7 x Cessna; and
* 3 x Bell light helicopters.[8]
UGANDA
Active personnel 40-45,000 (IISS 2007)
The IISS Military Balance 2007 says there are 1,800 paramilitary personnel also, which include the Marines - Uganda's naval force - with 400 personnel, and eight riverine patrol craft, all of less than 100 tonnes. There is also a 800-strong Uganda Police Force Air Wing with one Bell JetRanger, and a 600-strong Border Defence Unit equipped only with small arms.
Land forces
UPDF officer
The IISS Military Balance 2007 estimates that the land forces include five divisions (each with up to five brigades), one armoured and one artillery brigade. The divisions are the 1st at Kakiri in Wakiso District, the 2nd, HQ at Mbarara, the 3rd (HQ Mbale),[10] the 4th with its headquarters at Gulu,[11] and the 5th at Pader. The armoured brigade appears to be at Masaka.[12]
The 2nd Division, according to afdevinfo.com, includes of the divisional headquarters at Mbarara, the 17th, 69th, 73rd, and 77th Battalions, the Rwenzori Mountain Alpine Brigade, possibly another Alpine brigade, and the 3rd Tank Battalion, and has been heavily involved with border operations since the Congo Civil War began in the 1990s.
Most of its military equipment used is Soviet made but recently it has been receiving weapons from China.
* MBT 20x T-55, 20x PT-76 (IISS Military Balance 2007 lists 152 T-54/55, but indicates their serviceability is in doubt).
* IFVs 19x BMP-2
* APCs BTR-152, Buffel
* AA Guns ZPU-4
* ATGMs AT-3 Sagger
* 2 Chubby (mine detection system)
[edit] UDPF Air Wing
Artist's rendition of a Ugandan T-55 tank, serving in AMISOM, Somalia
There are conflicting reports on what aircraft the Air Wing has in service. According to the IISS Military Balance 2007, it includes some 15 combat capable aircraft, which include 5 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 Floggers and 6 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 Fishbeds, 3 Aero L-39 Albatroses, one Aermacchi SF-260, and one Mil Mi-24 Hind, with five further 'Hinds' unserviceable.
An earlier report says aircraft include 3 Agusta-Bell AB-206 JetRangers, 4 Agusta AB-212, 1 FFA AS-202 Bravo, 5 Bell 412, 1 Gulfstream III, 3 L-39ZA Albatros, 4 Aermacchi SF.260, 7 Mil-17 Hip-Hs, 5 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF Fishbed-Js, and 2 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21UM Mongol-Bs.
Hii ishu ya kisiwa cha Migingo baina ya Kenya na Uganda
inaendelea kua na vitisho na matamsho yasokubalika kutoka
kwa M7.Kwa kweli kama Raila angekua Rais wa Kenya,
there would have been a war if the offing bearing the statements made by M7 againstthe greater Luo community.Nimekusanya
hizi data kwenye makabrasha fulani na nataka maoni yenu
kuhusu u-military wa hawa ndugu zetu.
KENYA:
Army (40,000), the navy (1,000), the air force (4,000), and KDOD headquarters staff (200)
Equipment
* Vickers Mk3: 76
* T-72AV: 110 from Ukraine 77 in 2007 with more planned for delivery in 2008. 33 T-72's ordered from Ukraine were hijacked by Somalian pirates.[4] The MV Faina was released and the tanks unloaded in Mombasa Feb 2009. There have been doubts expressed as to whether the T-72s imported by Kenya are intended for use by the Kenyan Army. Instead, popular opinion is that they were being clandestinely imported for the southern Sudanese army, which has an arms embargo against it.[5]
* Recce: 72 x Panhard AML-60/-90, 12 x Ferret armoured car and 8 x Shorland armoured car;
* APC: 85 BRM Ukraine in 2007, WZ-551, 52 x Thyssen Henschel UR-416 and 1- x Panhard M-3 (in store);
* SP Artillery: 25 x 203mm 2S7 Pion ,35 x BM-21;
* Towed Arty: 48x 122mm, unknown x L-5 Pack Howitzer, 40x 105mm RO L118 Light Gun., Mortars: 50 x 81mm., and 12 x 120mm.,
25 x 203mm.,
* ATGW: 40 x MILAN, and 14 x Swingfire, RPG-7
* RCL 84mm: 80 x Carl Gustav recoilless rifle;
* AD Guns 20mm: 50 x TCM-20, and 11 x Oerlikon;
* AD Guns 23mm : 70 xZPU-4
* AD Guns 40mm: 13 x L/70.
* AD Missiles: BUK
* Small arms: G3 rifle
The Air Force has[6]
* Fighters: 7 x Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter figher aircraft. There are reports that Kenya seeks to purchase an additional 15 used F5 fighter jets from Jordan. [7]
* Transport (fixed wing): 7 x de Havilland Canada DHC-5D Buffalo, 12 x Harbin Y-12 (II), 10 x Piper PA-31 Navajo, 3 x de Havilland Canada DHC-8 Dash 8, 1x Fokker 70 (VIP), and 6 Dornier Do 28D-2 (in store)
* Helicopters (Armed): 11 x Hughes 500MD Defender with TOW, 8 x Hughes 500ME Defender, and 15 x Hughes 500M Defender
* Helicopters (Transport) (9 x IAR 330 Puma, 13 x Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma, and 1 x Aérospatiale SA 342 Gazelle);
* Training Aircraft: 12 x Scottish Aviation Bulldog 103/127, 8 x BAe Hawk Mk 52, 12 x Shorts Tucano, and 2 x helicopter Hughes 500D.
The Air Force also has Air-to-Surface Missile (ASM) AGM-65 Maverick TOW, and Air-to-Air missile(AAM) AIM-9 Sidewinder.
Kenya's Navy has
* 10 x Missile Craft;
* 6 x Patrol and Coastal Combatants;
* 1 x Amphibious Craft; and 5 x Support Vessel.
The General Service Unit's Air Wing
comprises 7 x Cessna; and
* 3 x Bell light helicopters.[8]
UGANDA
Active personnel 40-45,000 (IISS 2007)
The IISS Military Balance 2007 says there are 1,800 paramilitary personnel also, which include the Marines - Uganda's naval force - with 400 personnel, and eight riverine patrol craft, all of less than 100 tonnes. There is also a 800-strong Uganda Police Force Air Wing with one Bell JetRanger, and a 600-strong Border Defence Unit equipped only with small arms.
Land forces
UPDF officer
The IISS Military Balance 2007 estimates that the land forces include five divisions (each with up to five brigades), one armoured and one artillery brigade. The divisions are the 1st at Kakiri in Wakiso District, the 2nd, HQ at Mbarara, the 3rd (HQ Mbale),[10] the 4th with its headquarters at Gulu,[11] and the 5th at Pader. The armoured brigade appears to be at Masaka.[12]
The 2nd Division, according to afdevinfo.com, includes of the divisional headquarters at Mbarara, the 17th, 69th, 73rd, and 77th Battalions, the Rwenzori Mountain Alpine Brigade, possibly another Alpine brigade, and the 3rd Tank Battalion, and has been heavily involved with border operations since the Congo Civil War began in the 1990s.
Most of its military equipment used is Soviet made but recently it has been receiving weapons from China.
* MBT 20x T-55, 20x PT-76 (IISS Military Balance 2007 lists 152 T-54/55, but indicates their serviceability is in doubt).
* IFVs 19x BMP-2
* APCs BTR-152, Buffel
* AA Guns ZPU-4
* ATGMs AT-3 Sagger
* 2 Chubby (mine detection system)
[edit] UDPF Air Wing
Artist's rendition of a Ugandan T-55 tank, serving in AMISOM, Somalia
There are conflicting reports on what aircraft the Air Wing has in service. According to the IISS Military Balance 2007, it includes some 15 combat capable aircraft, which include 5 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23 Floggers and 6 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 Fishbeds, 3 Aero L-39 Albatroses, one Aermacchi SF-260, and one Mil Mi-24 Hind, with five further 'Hinds' unserviceable.
An earlier report says aircraft include 3 Agusta-Bell AB-206 JetRangers, 4 Agusta AB-212, 1 FFA AS-202 Bravo, 5 Bell 412, 1 Gulfstream III, 3 L-39ZA Albatros, 4 Aermacchi SF.260, 7 Mil-17 Hip-Hs, 5 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF Fishbed-Js, and 2 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21UM Mongol-Bs.
Last edited:
Soulbrother
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 14, 2009
- 405
- 17
Kwa ufupi, wakipigana watakaoumia watakuwa ni raia....kuna ule msemo wa kiswahili, fahari wawili.... jijazie
Ab-Titchaz
JF-Expert Member
- Jan 30, 2008
- 14,630
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The operational word is if...IF, bro.
Smatta
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 5, 2008
- 2,348
- 733
Hi AB, I hadnt noticed that this is your thread, if they spoil for a war, am sure we can whoop their a.ss with our eyes closed. Those boy scouts are ill equiped and trained.
Lets make peace not war