Sasa muwe invaded for so what worthy you own? Ni sawa na libibi lenye miaka 80 liseme katika wasichana wasiotongozwa hovyo na wanaume mie naongoza 😂😂😂😂We are not interested in posturing and empty shows of might.
sasa kuchoma kuku na kuuza ng'ombe hiyo hapa ni kazi ya NYS.
Ethiopian security sometimes trespasses in pursuit of criminals from their country, it's called "Hot Pursuit" ,and its legal..
In Eastern Africa,Kenya is the only nation that has never been invaded. Even Iddi Amin could not dare.
I dont see any reason to go to war with you. No reason at all. But i doesnt mean tz is weak.As long as you don't f*ck with us, you can say all you want.
As if civilian conflicts was a good thing. Sio lazima tuwe sawa au tuwe na historia moja.ha ha ha the Bongo civilians have never been involved in any internal conflict.We started fighting before your country got independence
eh eh hivi wakenya huwa mnafikilia kwa hayo mnayoyakalia nn hebu tuone na hyo war victory yenu mashwaini eh eh yaani kuanzia maumau shifta sijui alshabab nyie ni wakuingizwa mikia ya papa tu kitu knock out hadi maundsputed ...majirani zetu mnatatizo sanaView attachment 1063718
Bongo people are always here bragging of how their army has fought many wars, today i decided to check the details of those wars.
I don't want to be-little them, but just to be honest, the only conflict here that can be called a war is the UG - TZ war . It was an all long out conflict , but the truth is that Ugandans were tired of Iddi Amin too.
In fact when he had threatened to invade Kenya earlier, many Ugandans were hoping Amin does so because they knew that's the only way they could remove him.
There were already rebels from Uganda in Tz also opposed to Amin.
The other engagements were just operations that TZ was involved in co-operation with other countries.
These operations are not even tougher than the Anti-stock thefts operations done by GSU against cattle thieves in Pokot/Turkana areas.
They are not even comparable to the shifta guerilla warfare(1963 – 1967) in the North Eastern province which was funded by Somali Govt.
Like that engagement in the Mozambican Civil War , ended in a stalemate, all combatants had to sit and agree on a cease fire.
Come to 2019, TPDF is a paper-tiger.
The below comments are not mine, they are even probably made by TZ generals.
View attachment 1063720
We have not seen any significant upgrades from 2012, just beautiful parades with a few SAMs in display.
View attachment 1063719
In a full blown out war with an enemy of equal footing, TZ cannot as of this moment successfully coordinate their land-air and sea units effectively.
Your air-force is poorly trained and un-cordinated
Your air transport is under-equipped
Your air -support is non existent
Your Mechanized infantry is in shambles and consists of a few old armored personnel carriers.
The only hope with TPDF right now is to result to a suicidal kamikaze type of defence or a guerrilla warfare in case of an attack.
| Military | Civilian | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Conflict | Combatant 1 | Combatant 2 | Result | President of Kenya | Kenyan losses | |
| Mau Mau Uprising (1952–1956) | KLFA |
| Defeat
| Not applicable | 12,000– 20,000+[2] | Disputed |
| Shifta War (1963–1967) |
| NFDLM | Victory
| Jomo Kenyatta | 4,200+[3] (Civilians and combatants) | |
| Mount Elgon Insurgency (2005–2008) |
| SLDF | Victory
| Mwai Kibaki | ~600[4] (Civilians and combatants) | |
| War in Somalia (2011–) |
|
| Ongoing
| Unclear | Unclear |
Yaani kelele zote hizi, ni kwa msingi wa data za wikipedia, kila mtu anaweza andika wikipedia, na hizo data za vita za kenya ziko wapi? Ipe Tanzania sababu ya kukupiga ndio utajua wana nini kwenye pandora box!!!
.eh eh hivi wakenya huwa mnafikilia kwa hayo mnayoyakalia nn hebu tuone na hyo war victory yenu mashwaini eh eh yaani kuanzia maumau shifta sijui alshabab nyie ni wakuingizwa mikia ya papa tu kitu knock out hadi maundsputed ...majirani zetu mnatatizo sana
References
Military Civilian Conflict Combatant 1 Combatant 2 Result President
of KenyaKenyan losses Mau Mau Uprising
(1952–1956)KLFA United Kingdom Defeat
- British forces put down the rebellion[1]
Not applicable 12,000–
20,000+[2]Disputed Shifta War
(1963–1967)Kenya NFDLM Victory
- Secessionism in NFD suppressed
Jomo Kenyatta 4,200+[3]
(Civilians and combatants)Mount Elgon Insurgency
(2005–2008)Kenya SLDF Victory
- Defeat of the SLDF guerilla
Mwai Kibaki ~600[4]
(Civilians and combatants)War in Somalia
(2011–)Somalia
AMISOM
United States
United Kingdom Al-Shabaab
Hizbul Islam Islamic State Ongoing
- Operation Linda Nchi launched in 2011, Kenya joins AMISOM
Unclear Unclear
Kuchukua taarifa kwa wikipedia na kuamini mambo yako hivo kunafanya hata sisi tulio neutral kuhoji kiwango chako cha uelewa.View attachment 1063718
Bongo people are always here bragging of how their army has fought many wars, today i decided to check the details of those wars.
I don't want to be-little them, but just to be honest, the only conflict here that can be called a war is the UG - TZ war . It was an all long out conflict , but the truth is that Ugandans were tired of Iddi Amin too.
In fact when he had threatened to invade Kenya earlier, many Ugandans were hoping Amin does so because they knew that's the only way they could remove him.
There were already rebels from Uganda in Tz also opposed to Amin.
The other engagements were just operations that TZ was involved in co-operation with other countries.
These operations are not even tougher than the Anti-stock thefts operations done by GSU against cattle thieves in Pokot/Turkana areas.
They are not even comparable to the shifta guerilla warfare(1963 – 1967) in the North Eastern province which was funded by Somali Govt.
Like that engagement in the Mozambican Civil War , ended in a stalemate, all combatants had to sit and agree on a cease fire.
Come to 2019, TPDF is a paper-tiger.
The below comments are not mine, they are even probably made by TZ generals.
View attachment 1063720
We have not seen any significant upgrades from 2012, just beautiful parades with a few SAMs in display.
View attachment 1063719
In a full blown out war with an enemy of equal footing, TZ cannot as of this moment successfully coordinate their land-air and sea units effectively.
Your air-force is poorly trained and un-cordinated
Your air transport is under-equipped
Your air -support is non existent
Your Mechanized infantry is in shambles and consists of a few old armored personnel carriers.
The only hope with TPDF right now is to result to a suicidal kamikaze type of defence or a guerrilla warfare in case of an attack.
we jamaa nahofia uwezo wako wa kufikili Switzerland is consider a peaceful country lakini nenda kaiombe nayo vita...,tatizo viongozi wenu vimbelembele na kuwabeba mabwana zenu wamarekani kila ugomvi mnataka ingilia sisi tungekuwa kama nyie nadhan tungekua tushapigana na rwanda na malawi...ila ndo mtaishia pigwa ndani na nje http://www.providingforpeacekeeping.org/2014/04/03/contributor-profile-switzerland/.View attachment 1063889View attachment 1063890View attachment 1063891View attachment 1063892
Mambo yasiwe mengi, mengi yasiwe mambo
mwenzenu mganda anayejielewa katoa statistics hapo...kama waganda watawagaragaza unategemea nn toka kwwtuImages hazionekani vyema lakini unaweza pata kitu.
Mambo yasiwe mengi, mengi yasiwe mambo
Uganda could not fly their helicopters across Kenya towards Somalia in time of peace , how will they fly them in time of war.?mwenzenu mganda anayejielewa katoa statistics hapo...kama waganda watawagaragaza unategemea nn toka kwwtu
If Kenya were to engage in war with Uganda who would win?
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5 Answers
Sulaiman Kaboggoza, lives in Kampala, Uganda
Updated Mar 6, 2019 · Author has 87 answers and 358.3k answer views
If Uganda and Kenya went to war in their current states, these things would happen;
Quick Comparison:
- No matter who attacked first, the war would be fought on Kenyan soil.
- Kenya would be on the defensive most of the time.
- Kenya would ultimately lose the war.
Population:
Kenya: 49,000,000 – Uganda: 41,000,000
GDP (Nominal):
Kenya: $75 Billion – Uganda: $25 Billion
Name Of Armed Forces:
Kenya: Kenya Defense Forces (KDF)
Uganda: Uganda People’s Defense Force (UPDF)
Active Military Personnel:
Uganda: 46,000 – Kenya: 24,000
Military Reserve:
Uganda: 11,000 – Kenya: 5,000
Paramilitary:
Uganda: 1,100,000 – Kenya (Unknown, probably none)
Military Budget:
Kenya: $595M – Uganda: $360M
Air Force:
Total Fleet:
Kenya: 138 – Uganda: 43
Fighters/Interceptors:
Kenya: 17 (all of them US made Nothrop-F5, models off 1960)
Uganda: 10 (8 Sukhoi Su-30M Russian made, model 1996, 2 MiG Mi20 (1980))
Helicopters:
Kenya: 69 (All surveillance and transport)
Uganda: 21 (5 Attackers, 16 transport and surveillance)
Army
Tanks:
Uganda: 240 – Kenya: 76
Armored Fighting Vehicles:
Uganda: 1060 – Kenya: 591
Towed Artillery:
Uganda: 27 – Kenya: 25
Rocket Projectors:
Uganda: 26 – Kenya: 0
Notable Advantages Over One Another:
Kenya Over Uganda: Seaport. Most of Uganda’s imports come through Kenya Via Mombasa port.
Uganda Over Kenya: None
Detailed Military Comparison
The UPDF is bigger, more equipped and more experienced than the KDF.
Air Force:
This is one of the two areas where the UPDF beats the KDF. Kenya has 17 fighter jets all of which are much old US made Northrop F-5s built in the 60s. They outnumber Uganda’s fighter fleet but are much inferior in combat. Uganda has 8 Russian made Sukhoi Su-30Ms built in the 90s. These are much newer and more advanced fighter jets compared to the Kenyan F-5s and can definitely cause a lot of trouble to Kenya in a war. Uganda also has 2 MiG Mi20s, also attackers, making a total of 10 fighters jets. Kenya has many helicopters (69) but none of them are attacker helicopters. Uganda has 21 and out of those, 5 are attacker helicopters. In summary, the Ugandan Air Force can enter and play in the Kenyan air space with little resistance from the Kenyan Air Force.
Fleet Comparison
A Northrop F-5 costs USD $2.1 Million - Kenya has 17 of them and they are very old and they are the only fighters/interceptors the Kenya Air Force has.
A Sukhoi Su-30 costs USD $37.5 Million - Uganda has 8 of them.
In short, one Sukhoi Su-30 (Uganda Air Force) is as expensive as the entire Kenya Air Force fighter fleet of 17 Northrop F-5 jets. This makes Uganda’s Air Force much superior to that of Kenya.
It should be noted that none of these two countries has any decent Air Defense system. This gives the country with superior attacking capabilities the liberty to enter the other’s air space and do as much damage inside as they can. So these Ugandan Su-30Ms can go inside Kenya and cause chaos in Nairobi, Kisumu and Mombasa after taking care of the numerous helicopters and the F-5s as well as paralyzing Kenyas military installations. The MiGs and at least 2 Sukhois would stay behind to guard against incoming Kenyan helicopters and other surviving F-5s and provide air cover to the advancing UPDF infantry.
Army:
The UPDF still beats the KDF here. Uganda has 46,000 soldiers. Over 43,000 are in the army. Kenya has 24,000. The Navy and Air forces have less than 4,000 all together. The army has about 20,000 personnel.
Uganda has over 240 tanks. Kenya has 76.
Uganda has over 1,000 armored fighting vehicles and Kenya has 590.
In terms of artillery, its almost the same on both sides, around 30. Uganda has rocket projectors, over 30 of them and Kenya doesn’t have them.
The army (infantry) is basically tanks, armored fighting vehicles, artillery, guns and soldiers. No special magic there. How many tanks are firing at the enemy? How many armored vehicles are firing at the enemy? How many soldiers come sweeping behind your tanks and armored vehicles? How are the logistics passed down to the front line? That’s the ground war. The KDF would not hold much longer against an attacking UPDF infantry. They would be outnumbered and out armed. This would only be balanced if Kenya had a superior air force. Its hard for an infantry to advance in an area where the air space is dominated by the enemy. Without the air force, it comes down to tanks, soldiers, guns, artillery, motivation, logistics and experience, in most of which Uganda beats Kenya.
Uganda has 11,000 reserve personnel. Kenya has 5,000. Uganda has another force of 1.1 Million militias recently trained. They are known locally as Crime Preventers. This is a very big advantage on their side. With little adjustments these can go to battle fronts or help protect and establish an occupation protection force in Kenyan cities that are conquered by the UPDF since their main area of training is primarily crowd control. They would also ease the army from the burden of supplies and logistics and the army would concentrate on the fighting. The KDF would almost certainly retreat in the case of a UPDF infantry advance. These Ugandan militias would also form a resistance force in the unlikely case of a Kenyan invasion and occupation of Uganda. They are so many and are trained. It would be so hard for a foreign hostile force to occupy Uganda, even without the UPDF.
The Navy:
Kenya, thanks to the seaport, has a bigger, more equipped and more experienced navy. A total of 19 Naval assets compared to Uganda’s 8. Some of Kenya’s boats on the Indian Ocean carry real firepower. They have 3 missile boats. They are definitely superior here. The only problem is that in a military confrontation with Uganda, the Kenyan navy would have little or no use since Uganda is on the western border and the Indian Ocean where the navy is based is on the east. No Kenyan navy vessel has the capacity to strike anywhere near Uganda from the Indian Ocean. The navy would only be useful when the military advance has reached Mombasa which can only happen when Nairobi has already fallen. So the Kenyan Navy has no place in the confrontation. The same applies to the weak little Ugandan navy all of which is based on Lake Victoria. It can’t pose any threat to Kenya as Kenya has no serious assets or infrastructure on the shores of Victoria and the striking capacity of the Ugandan navy is much weaker than that of their Kenyan counterpart.
Governance:
Kenya is a promising young democracy. Democratic and overall better governance compared to Uganda. Leaders are much more answerable to the people in Kenya than in Uganda.
Uganda is a much more militarized country than Kenya. It is some kind of half-democracy-half-dictatorship. The government can do a lot without the consent of the people and actually get away with it, save for a few demonstrations and condemnations here and there. Ugandans have very little say over the defense sector. The UPDF has deployed in more than three countries without approval of parliament in the past 20 years with the most recent being South Sudan in 2013. The president also went military shoppingwithout any prior budget allocations and against technical advice from financial experts and he bought the most expensive fighter jets in the great lakes region (the Sukhoi Su-30Ms) costing close to $40 million each and he bought 8 of them. This almost crashed the Ugandan economy in 2011-2012. This shows that however much Kenya has a better economy than Uganda, the Uganda government is capable of a more unsanctioned off books military spending than Kenya. Don’t be surprised if you see a better funded UPDF than KDF and during a war, the much-militarized government of Uganda may channel all possible national resources to the military. This is impossible in Kenya as most of the stuff is democratically done with approval of the representatives of the people first.
Kenya has been a relatively stable country with very few conflicts or military challenges since independence. They have not had a single coup or military overthrow of government. Four presidents, three peaceful power transitions. This has enabled an uninterrupted economic growth.
Uganda on the other hand has had her fair share of instabilities. Nine presidents, all coming either though military coups, military council resolutions or rebel overthrows and three serious civil wars. This has shaped and hardened the Ugandan military in various ways. As we speak now, the UPDF is operating in 5 countries outside Uganda (Chad, Central African Republic, The Congo, South Sudan and Somalia) with Somalia having the highest number (over 4,600). These military adventures keep the army fit, ready and experienced.
Economics:
Kenya is 3 times richer than Uganda. Kenya’s GDP is $75 billion compared to Uganda’s 25.
Kenya is generally more developed with better infrastructure, better economy, a more educated population and more industries. It controls a lot of Key imports that Uganda needs to run, such as fuel. A lot of other imports that do not come through the Mombasa port but come from Kenya. In 2017 Uganda imported over $840 million worth of Kenyan goods. In case of a war, Kenya would definitely take advantage of its strategic position and hold Uganda’s imports, causing a painful fuel shortage in less than a month and shortage of some other items.
Uganda, however has an alternative of Tanzanian ports. The Kenyan trade war would hurt Uganda but not enough to cause a military withdraw of the UPDF from Kenya. Ugandans would just miss out on some things (mostly the made in Kenya products), have less fuel or to drive around, etc. but the country would definitely run and the war would go on.
Military readiness:
Most answers I saw up were referencing the Kenyan economic superiority issue being a major factor in the war but that is not entirely true. A military confrontation, especially one between neighboring countries is mostly determined by the current military readiness of each country. One country may be richer than another but unable to face it militarily. War is not entirely commerce, its firepower first.
Look at these examples;
In short, you may have a bigger economy and be capable of economically sustaining longer years of war, capable of buying more weapons etc. but when the war starts, the weapons and the personnel you have are the ones that save you, not the ones you can buy or train. You don’t go military shopping when the war starts, you use what you have. You need to have some weapons before the economy card can be played.
- North Korea’s economy is $25 billion but they threaten and without the US intervention, they can attack, defeat and actually occupy South Korea in one day yet South Korea’s economy is close to $2 trillion. Compare $25 Billion to $2 Trillion, South Korea is about 80 times richer than North Korea but they can not face them in a military confrontation. Its because North Korea’s military readiness is much better than South Korea’s. More personnel, more submarines, more missiles, more tanks, etc. North Korea even threatens Japan, an economic powerhouse with a GDP of over $4 trillion (160 times richer than North Korea).
- Russia threatens, bullies and mocks every country in Europe including Germany, France and the UK. All of those countries are richer than and more developed than Russia but Russia has more weapons, more soldiers, etc. They have more firepower to attack any of them and win. That’s military readiness. Germany can afford any planes and missiles that Russia has but they have money and not planes or missiles so they are militarily not as ready as Russia. The reason the US respects and fears Russia is because of its military, not its economy. The US is 9 times richer than Russia and much more developed in other sectors but militarily, they are on the same level and sit on the same table. Its military readiness.
The economic advantage comes in in cases where the war goes on and on. You need to maintain the military hardware, spare parts, consumables such as bullets, fuel, food, medicine, etc. But first, you need to face off with your attacker militarily, hold him off until the economic burden begins to take toll on him.
Because of all those factors and facts above, I believe a war between Uganda, would be fought on Kenyan soil, even if Kenya attacks first. Kenya would spend most of the time on the defensive trying to stop the UPDF from advancing and Kenya would ultimately lose the war.
I also believe that by the time of Uganda wins, it would be as devastated as the losing Kenya or worse. Living conditions in Uganda would worsen, the government would even fail to provide some of the basic services and an economy that would take years to rebuild. There would barely enough resources to run the core government ministries.
I hope have been fair and neutral enough. You know I am Ugandan. I just hope we never ever come to the point of pointing our guns at each other with our Kenyan brothers and sisters. Our countries are sisters and we can definitely achieve much more working together instead of against each other.
Dr. Muhula ktk hicho kitabu anasema Kenya ni victim na source ya terrorism. Hivi bosi kuna vita gani unayohitaji kupigana zaidi ya ulinzi na usalama wa raia na mali zao. Hapo Dr. Muhula anasema mmeshindwa...sishangai kwani ile vita ya Baringo imekuwa ni shida sana.we jamaa nahofia uwezo wako wa kufikili Switzerland is consider a peaceful country lakini nenda kaiombe nayo vita...,tatizo viongozi wenu vimbelembele na kuwabeba mabwana zenu wamarekani kila ugomvi mnataka ingilia sisi tungekuwa kama nyie nadhan tungekua tushapigana na rwana na malawi...ila ndo mtaishia pigwa ndani na nje http://www.providingforpeacekeeping.org/2014/04/03/contributor-profile-switzerland/
Very flawed reasoning here, he says Kenya has no attack Helicopters, we have over 50 attack Helicopters. I don't know where he got the statistics from.mwenzenu mganda anayejielewa katoa statistics hapo...kama waganda watawagaragaza unategemea nn toka kwwtu
If Kenya were to engage in war with Uganda who would win?
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5 Answers
Sulaiman Kaboggoza, lives in Kampala, Uganda
Updated Mar 6, 2019 · Author has 87 answers and 358.3k answer views
If Uganda and Kenya went to war in their current states, these things would happen;
Quick Comparison:
- No matter who attacked first, the war would be fought on Kenyan soil.
- Kenya would be on the defensive most of the time.
- Kenya would ultimately lose the war.
Population:
Kenya: 49,000,000 – Uganda: 41,000,000
GDP (Nominal):
Kenya: $75 Billion – Uganda: $25 Billion
Name Of Armed Forces:
Kenya: Kenya Defense Forces (KDF)
Uganda: Uganda People’s Defense Force (UPDF)
Active Military Personnel:
Uganda: 46,000 – Kenya: 24,000
Military Reserve:
Uganda: 11,000 – Kenya: 5,000
Paramilitary:
Uganda: 1,100,000 – Kenya (Unknown, probably none)
Military Budget:
Kenya: $595M – Uganda: $360M
Air Force:
Total Fleet:
Kenya: 138 – Uganda: 43
Fighters/Interceptors:
Kenya: 17 (all of them US made Nothrop-F5, models off 1960)
Uganda: 10 (8 Sukhoi Su-30M Russian made, model 1996, 2 MiG Mi20 (1980))
Helicopters:
Kenya: 69 (All surveillance and transport)
Uganda: 21 (5 Attackers, 16 transport and surveillance)
Army
Tanks:
Uganda: 240 – Kenya: 76
Armored Fighting Vehicles:
Uganda: 1060 – Kenya: 591
Towed Artillery:
Uganda: 27 – Kenya: 25
Rocket Projectors:
Uganda: 26 – Kenya: 0
Notable Advantages Over One Another:
Kenya Over Uganda: Seaport. Most of Uganda’s imports come through Kenya Via Mombasa port.
Uganda Over Kenya: None
Detailed Military Comparison
The UPDF is bigger, more equipped and more experienced than the KDF.
Air Force:
This is one of the two areas where the UPDF beats the KDF. Kenya has 17 fighter jets all of which are much old US made Northrop F-5s built in the 60s. They outnumber Uganda’s fighter fleet but are much inferior in combat. Uganda has 8 Russian made Sukhoi Su-30Ms built in the 90s. These are much newer and more advanced fighter jets compared to the Kenyan F-5s and can definitely cause a lot of trouble to Kenya in a war. Uganda also has 2 MiG Mi20s, also attackers, making a total of 10 fighters jets. Kenya has many helicopters (69) but none of them are attacker helicopters. Uganda has 21 and out of those, 5 are attacker helicopters. In summary, the Ugandan Air Force can enter and play in the Kenyan air space with little resistance from the Kenyan Air Force.
Fleet Comparison
A Northrop F-5 costs USD $2.1 Million - Kenya has 17 of them and they are very old and they are the only fighters/interceptors the Kenya Air Force has.
A Sukhoi Su-30 costs USD $37.5 Million - Uganda has 8 of them.
In short, one Sukhoi Su-30 (Uganda Air Force) is as expensive as the entire Kenya Air Force fighter fleet of 17 Northrop F-5 jets. This makes Uganda’s Air Force much superior to that of Kenya.
It should be noted that none of these two countries has any decent Air Defense system. This gives the country with superior attacking capabilities the liberty to enter the other’s air space and do as much damage inside as they can. So these Ugandan Su-30Ms can go inside Kenya and cause chaos in Nairobi, Kisumu and Mombasa after taking care of the numerous helicopters and the F-5s as well as paralyzing Kenyas military installations. The MiGs and at least 2 Sukhois would stay behind to guard against incoming Kenyan helicopters and other surviving F-5s and provide air cover to the advancing UPDF infantry.
Army:
The UPDF still beats the KDF here. Uganda has 46,000 soldiers. Over 43,000 are in the army. Kenya has 24,000. The Navy and Air forces have less than 4,000 all together. The army has about 20,000 personnel.
Uganda has over 240 tanks. Kenya has 76.
Uganda has over 1,000 armored fighting vehicles and Kenya has 590.
In terms of artillery, its almost the same on both sides, around 30. Uganda has rocket projectors, over 30 of them and Kenya doesn’t have them.
The army (infantry) is basically tanks, armored fighting vehicles, artillery, guns and soldiers. No special magic there. How many tanks are firing at the enemy? How many armored vehicles are firing at the enemy? How many soldiers come sweeping behind your tanks and armored vehicles? How are the logistics passed down to the front line? That’s the ground war. The KDF would not hold much longer against an attacking UPDF infantry. They would be outnumbered and out armed. This would only be balanced if Kenya had a superior air force. Its hard for an infantry to advance in an area where the air space is dominated by the enemy. Without the air force, it comes down to tanks, soldiers, guns, artillery, motivation, logistics and experience, in most of which Uganda beats Kenya.
Uganda has 11,000 reserve personnel. Kenya has 5,000. Uganda has another force of 1.1 Million militias recently trained. They are known locally as Crime Preventers. This is a very big advantage on their side. With little adjustments these can go to battle fronts or help protect and establish an occupation protection force in Kenyan cities that are conquered by the UPDF since their main area of training is primarily crowd control. They would also ease the army from the burden of supplies and logistics and the army would concentrate on the fighting. The KDF would almost certainly retreat in the case of a UPDF infantry advance. These Ugandan militias would also form a resistance force in the unlikely case of a Kenyan invasion and occupation of Uganda. They are so many and are trained. It would be so hard for a foreign hostile force to occupy Uganda, even without the UPDF.
The Navy:
Kenya, thanks to the seaport, has a bigger, more equipped and more experienced navy. A total of 19 Naval assets compared to Uganda’s 8. Some of Kenya’s boats on the Indian Ocean carry real firepower. They have 3 missile boats. They are definitely superior here. The only problem is that in a military confrontation with Uganda, the Kenyan navy would have little or no use since Uganda is on the western border and the Indian Ocean where the navy is based is on the east. No Kenyan navy vessel has the capacity to strike anywhere near Uganda from the Indian Ocean. The navy would only be useful when the military advance has reached Mombasa which can only happen when Nairobi has already fallen. So the Kenyan Navy has no place in the confrontation. The same applies to the weak little Ugandan navy all of which is based on Lake Victoria. It can’t pose any threat to Kenya as Kenya has no serious assets or infrastructure on the shores of Victoria and the striking capacity of the Ugandan navy is much weaker than that of their Kenyan counterpart.
Governance:
Kenya is a promising young democracy. Democratic and overall better governance compared to Uganda. Leaders are much more answerable to the people in Kenya than in Uganda.
Uganda is a much more militarized country than Kenya. It is some kind of half-democracy-half-dictatorship. The government can do a lot without the consent of the people and actually get away with it, save for a few demonstrations and condemnations here and there. Ugandans have very little say over the defense sector. The UPDF has deployed in more than three countries without approval of parliament in the past 20 years with the most recent being South Sudan in 2013. The president also went military shoppingwithout any prior budget allocations and against technical advice from financial experts and he bought the most expensive fighter jets in the great lakes region (the Sukhoi Su-30Ms) costing close to $40 million each and he bought 8 of them. This almost crashed the Ugandan economy in 2011-2012. This shows that however much Kenya has a better economy than Uganda, the Uganda government is capable of a more unsanctioned off books military spending than Kenya. Don’t be surprised if you see a better funded UPDF than KDF and during a war, the much-militarized government of Uganda may channel all possible national resources to the military. This is impossible in Kenya as most of the stuff is democratically done with approval of the representatives of the people first.
Kenya has been a relatively stable country with very few conflicts or military challenges since independence. They have not had a single coup or military overthrow of government. Four presidents, three peaceful power transitions. This has enabled an uninterrupted economic growth.
Uganda on the other hand has had her fair share of instabilities. Nine presidents, all coming either though military coups, military council resolutions or rebel overthrows and three serious civil wars. This has shaped and hardened the Ugandan military in various ways. As we speak now, the UPDF is operating in 5 countries outside Uganda (Chad, Central African Republic, The Congo, South Sudan and Somalia) with Somalia having the highest number (over 4,600). These military adventures keep the army fit, ready and experienced.
Economics:
Kenya is 3 times richer than Uganda. Kenya’s GDP is $75 billion compared to Uganda’s 25.
Kenya is generally more developed with better infrastructure, better economy, a more educated population and more industries. It controls a lot of Key imports that Uganda needs to run, such as fuel. A lot of other imports that do not come through the Mombasa port but come from Kenya. In 2017 Uganda imported over $840 million worth of Kenyan goods. In case of a war, Kenya would definitely take advantage of its strategic position and hold Uganda’s imports, causing a painful fuel shortage in less than a month and shortage of some other items.
Uganda, however has an alternative of Tanzanian ports. The Kenyan trade war would hurt Uganda but not enough to cause a military withdraw of the UPDF from Kenya. Ugandans would just miss out on some things (mostly the made in Kenya products), have less fuel or to drive around, etc. but the country would definitely run and the war would go on.
Military readiness:
Most answers I saw up were referencing the Kenyan economic superiority issue being a major factor in the war but that is not entirely true. A military confrontation, especially one between neighboring countries is mostly determined by the current military readiness of each country. One country may be richer than another but unable to face it militarily. War is not entirely commerce, its firepower first.
Look at these examples;
In short, you may have a bigger economy and be capable of economically sustaining longer years of war, capable of buying more weapons etc. but when the war starts, the weapons and the personnel you have are the ones that save you, not the ones you can buy or train. You don’t go military shopping when the war starts, you use what you have. You need to have some weapons before the economy card can be played.
- North Korea’s economy is $25 billion but they threaten and without the US intervention, they can attack, defeat and actually occupy South Korea in one day yet South Korea’s economy is close to $2 trillion. Compare $25 Billion to $2 Trillion, South Korea is about 80 times richer than North Korea but they can not face them in a military confrontation. Its because North Korea’s military readiness is much better than South Korea’s. More personnel, more submarines, more missiles, more tanks, etc. North Korea even threatens Japan, an economic powerhouse with a GDP of over $4 trillion (160 times richer than North Korea).
- Russia threatens, bullies and mocks every country in Europe including Germany, France and the UK. All of those countries are richer than and more developed than Russia but Russia has more weapons, more soldiers, etc. They have more firepower to attack any of them and win. That’s military readiness. Germany can afford any planes and missiles that Russia has but they have money and not planes or missiles so they are militarily not as ready as Russia. The reason the US respects and fears Russia is because of its military, not its economy. The US is 9 times richer than Russia and much more developed in other sectors but militarily, they are on the same level and sit on the same table. Its military readiness.
The economic advantage comes in in cases where the war goes on and on. You need to maintain the military hardware, spare parts, consumables such as bullets, fuel, food, medicine, etc. But first, you need to face off with your attacker militarily, hold him off until the economic burden begins to take toll on him.
Because of all those factors and facts above, I believe a war between Uganda, would be fought on Kenyan soil, even if Kenya attacks first. Kenya would spend most of the time on the defensive trying to stop the UPDF from advancing and Kenya would ultimately lose the war.
I also believe that by the time of Uganda wins, it would be as devastated as the losing Kenya or worse. Living conditions in Uganda would worsen, the government would even fail to provide some of the basic services and an economy that would take years to rebuild. There would barely enough resources to run the core government ministries.
I hope have been fair and neutral enough. You know I am Ugandan. I just hope we never ever come to the point of pointing our guns at each other with our Kenyan brothers and sisters. Our countries are sisters and we can definitely achieve much more working together instead of against each other.
Sasa wewe umezaliwa 90s,unaweza kujua mission zote Jwatz,tulizofanya?View attachment 1063718
Bongo people are always here bragging of how their army has fought many wars, today i decided to check the details of those wars.
I don't want to be-little them, but just to be honest, the only conflict here that can be called a war is the UG - TZ war . It was an all long out conflict , but the truth is that Ugandans were tired of Iddi Amin too.
In fact when he had threatened to invade Kenya earlier, many Ugandans were hoping Amin does so because they knew that's the only way they could remove him.
There were already rebels from Uganda in Tz also opposed to Amin.
The other engagements were just operations that TZ was involved in co-operation with other countries.
These operations are not even tougher than the Anti-stock thefts operations done by GSU against cattle thieves in Pokot/Turkana areas.
They are not even comparable to the shifta guerilla warfare(1963 – 1967) in the North Eastern province which was funded by Somali Govt.
Like that engagement in the Mozambican Civil War , ended in a stalemate, all combatants had to sit and agree on a cease fire.
Come to 2019, TPDF is a paper-tiger.
The below comments are not mine, they are even probably made by TZ generals.
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We have not seen any significant upgrades from 2012, just beautiful parades with a few SAMs in display.
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In a full blown out war with an enemy of equal footing, TZ cannot as of this moment successfully coordinate their land-air and sea units effectively.
Your air-force is poorly trained and un-cordinated
Your air transport is under-equipped
Your air -support is non existent
Your Mechanized infantry is in shambles and consists of a few old armored personnel carriers.
The only hope with TPDF right now is to result to a suicidal kamikaze type of defence or a guerrilla warfare in case of an attack.
Respect to our Heroes
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Niliwaambia wabongo kuwa hata ukiwa na baiskeli ambayo haina shida yeyote, huwezi kujifananisha na mtu mwenye gari ambalo lina puncture. Go to your lane brother.Siku hizi Ghana, Rwanda ndiyo wako level moja na nyinyi. Saa hizi tunajipima nguvu na Morocco , Algeria , Egypt , SASasa muwe invaded for so what worthy you own? Ni sawa na libibi lenye miaka 80 liseme katika wasichana wasiotongozwa hovyo na wanaume mie naongoza 😂😂😂😂
Your country is like dumpster nothing to harvest ndio maana mnakufa na njaa