huyo mama ni ghasia na tangu aliposema hakuna kuajiri watu nje ya serikali basi naona ni pumba baada ya pumba,na ukiona policy kama hizo alizosema huyo Simba (salon car) hazibadilishwi ujue watu hawafanyi kazi zao,mnaomtetea Ghasia yuko right ,vipi akitokea kiongozi mwingine akianza kuenforce hiyo ya Saloon car hairuhusiwi kuendeshwa....mtamtetea tuu kwa sababu anatekeleza policy au mna lingine la kusema?
2 Cabinet Ministers differ on dress code
2 Cabinet Ministers differ on dress code
- Thread starter BAK
- Start date
William J. Malecela
R I P
- Apr 27, 2006
- 26,584
- 10,400
Quote:-
"The issue should be about competence and ability, not the way one dresses� we should assess public servants through their performance, and not their dressing style," Ms Simba said. The Minister said it was time Tanzanians concentrated on their work instead of wasting time debating people's dressing tastes. She said today's Tanzanians faced many challenges, adding that it was counterproductive to dwell on how people dressed"
Sijawahi kuwa a fan wa huyu mama, lakini I must admit kwamba haya maneno ni mazito sana na yanapaswa kuheshimiwa sana, kwa sababu yanajibu maswali yote kuhusiana na waraka wa Ghasia, na I hope sio yale yale ya kutambiana nani anatembea na nani?
Lakini respect kwa Sophia, maana hii ndio hasa kumkoma nyani giladi!
Viongozi wetu wawe encouraged ku-comment kwenye ishu kama hizi ndio tutawajua vizuri uwezo wao wa kufikiri, kuliko kuwapa nafasi ya kila siku kujificha nyuma ya policies, ambazo ukweli huwa hata hawana idea nazo, lakini inakuwa ni rahisi kwao kutoonyehsa pumba zao, ni ishu kama hizi ndio tunaelewa kuwa hawa kina Ghasia, wamejaa pumba tupu vichwani!
"The issue should be about competence and ability, not the way one dresses� we should assess public servants through their performance, and not their dressing style," Ms Simba said. The Minister said it was time Tanzanians concentrated on their work instead of wasting time debating people's dressing tastes. She said today's Tanzanians faced many challenges, adding that it was counterproductive to dwell on how people dressed"
Sijawahi kuwa a fan wa huyu mama, lakini I must admit kwamba haya maneno ni mazito sana na yanapaswa kuheshimiwa sana, kwa sababu yanajibu maswali yote kuhusiana na waraka wa Ghasia, na I hope sio yale yale ya kutambiana nani anatembea na nani?
Lakini respect kwa Sophia, maana hii ndio hasa kumkoma nyani giladi!
Viongozi wetu wawe encouraged ku-comment kwenye ishu kama hizi ndio tutawajua vizuri uwezo wao wa kufikiri, kuliko kuwapa nafasi ya kila siku kujificha nyuma ya policies, ambazo ukweli huwa hata hawana idea nazo, lakini inakuwa ni rahisi kwao kutoonyehsa pumba zao, ni ishu kama hizi ndio tunaelewa kuwa hawa kina Ghasia, wamejaa pumba tupu vichwani!
Nakubaliana na mwenzetu mwenye wazo la kuwa si vyema wazazi wakagombana penye hadhara ya watoto au majirani.
Kama ningejua Waziri Ghasia anaitetea "dress code" ya aina gani labda ningeweza kumtetea kwa kiwango kikubwa zaidi. Lakini, na itoshe kusema, hata mimi binafsi, nimewahi kupatwa na mshangao mkubwa tu, kuona jinsi baadhi ya wafanya kazi serikalini wavaavyo.
Ingawa pia nakubaliana na Waziri Simba, kuwa tusipoteze muda wa kuzungumzia mavazi ya wafanya kazi, bali tujali zaidi mazao ya kazi zao. Lakini, inapofika hadi ni lazima atokee mtu aseme kitu.
Hata kama una-produce vipi, huwezi kutujia kazini na pajama lako na malapa au na swimming costume mathalan, halafu, utegemee watu wasiseme kitu
Kama ningejua Waziri Ghasia anaitetea "dress code" ya aina gani labda ningeweza kumtetea kwa kiwango kikubwa zaidi. Lakini, na itoshe kusema, hata mimi binafsi, nimewahi kupatwa na mshangao mkubwa tu, kuona jinsi baadhi ya wafanya kazi serikalini wavaavyo.
Ingawa pia nakubaliana na Waziri Simba, kuwa tusipoteze muda wa kuzungumzia mavazi ya wafanya kazi, bali tujali zaidi mazao ya kazi zao. Lakini, inapofika hadi ni lazima atokee mtu aseme kitu.
Hata kama una-produce vipi, huwezi kutujia kazini na pajama lako na malapa au na swimming costume mathalan, halafu, utegemee watu wasiseme kitu
U spot it on, absolutely right...
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Ofisi gani ya serikali wanakuja watu na swimming costume? Au pajama? Malapa labda kwa wale wanaosumbuliwa na fangas! Kuna wakati kata mbuga zilikuwa ndio viatu vya taifa. Mbona watu waliendelea kuhudumiwa? Tusifanye kichuguu kuwa mlima!!!
In Tanzania we have a Code of Ethics and Conduct for the Public Service and one o the section is about Attire which states as follows:
"2. An employee will maintain personal hygiene, dress in respectable attire in accordance with the acceptable norms of the office as stipulated in staff circulars."
Kama kuna mwenye hiyo 'Dress code' aiweke hapa nayo tuione hii itatupa uwanja mzuri wa kujadili hii mada. Kwa maoni yangu, ghasia yuko sawa. Huyu, simba kuna vitu kachemsha, maana globalization haina maana tuache kuzingatia maadili ya kitanzania. Globalization sio sababu ya kuwafanya watu wavae hovyo hovyo "indecent". Natamani siku moja yeye atuvalie chupi tu na sidiria alafu aende ofisini. Natoa tu mfano ili tufikirie kama dress code ni muhimu au si muhimu. Nadhani anadhani kila kinachofanyika ulaya, marekani etc. ni sawa tu ili mradi globalization.
Nawatakia heri ya mwaka mpya
"2. An employee will maintain personal hygiene, dress in respectable attire in accordance with the acceptable norms of the office as stipulated in staff circulars."
Kama kuna mwenye hiyo 'Dress code' aiweke hapa nayo tuione hii itatupa uwanja mzuri wa kujadili hii mada. Kwa maoni yangu, ghasia yuko sawa. Huyu, simba kuna vitu kachemsha, maana globalization haina maana tuache kuzingatia maadili ya kitanzania. Globalization sio sababu ya kuwafanya watu wavae hovyo hovyo "indecent". Natamani siku moja yeye atuvalie chupi tu na sidiria alafu aende ofisini. Natoa tu mfano ili tufikirie kama dress code ni muhimu au si muhimu. Nadhani anadhani kila kinachofanyika ulaya, marekani etc. ni sawa tu ili mradi globalization.
Nawatakia heri ya mwaka mpya
Dressing codes tunamaanisha nini? Aina za nguo (mishono) na vipimo vyake? Rangi? Aina za vitambaa (labda wengine wasije wakaja kazini wamevaa vyandalua!) Na zimepangwa kwa jinsia zote au ni kinamama tu wanaandamwa na sketi zao? Mie nikienda kazini na mgolole sawa? (Mzee Kawawa ndiyo ilikuwa fasheni yake miaka ya mwanzo ya uhuru).
Serikali inazungumza kuhusu mtumishi kuvaa decently, lakini imeacha hiyo term ikabakia kama relative term. Ni tofauti na dressing codes za watawa wa kike wa kikatoliki ambao wameeleza wazi katika sheria zao kuwa gauni litakuwa na urefu gani toka kwenye kiwiko cha mguu, mkanda utakuwa katikati kabisa ya kitovu na tip ya mfupa wa kati ya kifua, viatu vitakuwa vya kufunika vyenye soli ya unene gani, head scarf itapita usawa upi wa masikio na kushukia nyuma katikati ya shoulder blades na kuishia usawa wa hizo shoulder blades, nk. Askari wa majeshi yetu wako makini hadi kwenye ukubwa wa sleeves (kama ni shati short sleeve), kama ni wakati wa kukunja mikono ya shati kuna utaratibu ni mikunjo mingapi ya upana gani, na shati lililokunjwa mikono liishie usawa gani.
Huko bungeni kuna official dressing code ambayo inasimamiwa na kanuni zao, na kuna wakati nilishaona mheshimiwa spika akiwatoa nje wabunge ambao hawakuvaa ipasavyo.
Na wengine tunaotembea hapa na pale tunafahamu majina ya dress codes, ambayo ukitajiwa tu unaelewa wamesema uvaeje. Tukialikwa kwenye tafrija ama shughuli wengine huwa wanatuandikia kwenye kadi dress code, labda: "Formal", "Informal", "Business-Standard", "business-casual-corporate", "Business-Casual-Relaxed", "Smart Casual" au "casual". Na hizi zote, kila moja uvaaji wake unategemea na nchi husika, hali ya hewa ya siku hiyo, muda wa siku (smart casual ya jioni ni tofauti na smart casual ya mchana, vivyo hivyo kwa formal, relaxed etc), na jinsia ya mvaaji. Hata walioko kwenye uniformed services (majeshi, mahospitalini), wana dress code kuendana na matukio, japo wao flexibility yao si kubwa kama ya other civillian dress codes.
Kama hizo dress codes za serikalini zimepangwa kwa category kama hizi, ni vigumu kumpangia mtu avae nini. Mtu anakuwa na uhuru wa kuchagua vazi mradi liendane na dress code ya wakati na mahali. Na katika hizo nilizotaja juu ambazo zote zinakubalika, suruali na skirt kwa kinamama zipo. Labda swali, hivi skirt ya ikifika urefu wa magotini (si chini ya magoti), ni ndefu au ni fupi? Sasa suti ya kike yenye skirt hiyo, ambayo mvaaji akikaa anabana mapaja au anachora 4, katika nchi za commonwealth iko kwenye dress code ya "business standard". Na hizi kwa kinamama zina mapozi yake, huwezi tu kukaa unajichanulisha! Sasa executive wa kike akivaa hivi, na akiketi na kutembea kama inavyopaswa kwa uvaaji huo, ameharibu nini? Au sisi tuna dress code tofauti na nchi nyingine za commonwealth?
Serikali inazungumza kuhusu mtumishi kuvaa decently, lakini imeacha hiyo term ikabakia kama relative term. Ni tofauti na dressing codes za watawa wa kike wa kikatoliki ambao wameeleza wazi katika sheria zao kuwa gauni litakuwa na urefu gani toka kwenye kiwiko cha mguu, mkanda utakuwa katikati kabisa ya kitovu na tip ya mfupa wa kati ya kifua, viatu vitakuwa vya kufunika vyenye soli ya unene gani, head scarf itapita usawa upi wa masikio na kushukia nyuma katikati ya shoulder blades na kuishia usawa wa hizo shoulder blades, nk. Askari wa majeshi yetu wako makini hadi kwenye ukubwa wa sleeves (kama ni shati short sleeve), kama ni wakati wa kukunja mikono ya shati kuna utaratibu ni mikunjo mingapi ya upana gani, na shati lililokunjwa mikono liishie usawa gani.
Huko bungeni kuna official dressing code ambayo inasimamiwa na kanuni zao, na kuna wakati nilishaona mheshimiwa spika akiwatoa nje wabunge ambao hawakuvaa ipasavyo.
Na wengine tunaotembea hapa na pale tunafahamu majina ya dress codes, ambayo ukitajiwa tu unaelewa wamesema uvaeje. Tukialikwa kwenye tafrija ama shughuli wengine huwa wanatuandikia kwenye kadi dress code, labda: "Formal", "Informal", "Business-Standard", "business-casual-corporate", "Business-Casual-Relaxed", "Smart Casual" au "casual". Na hizi zote, kila moja uvaaji wake unategemea na nchi husika, hali ya hewa ya siku hiyo, muda wa siku (smart casual ya jioni ni tofauti na smart casual ya mchana, vivyo hivyo kwa formal, relaxed etc), na jinsia ya mvaaji. Hata walioko kwenye uniformed services (majeshi, mahospitalini), wana dress code kuendana na matukio, japo wao flexibility yao si kubwa kama ya other civillian dress codes.
Kama hizo dress codes za serikalini zimepangwa kwa category kama hizi, ni vigumu kumpangia mtu avae nini. Mtu anakuwa na uhuru wa kuchagua vazi mradi liendane na dress code ya wakati na mahali. Na katika hizo nilizotaja juu ambazo zote zinakubalika, suruali na skirt kwa kinamama zipo. Labda swali, hivi skirt ya ikifika urefu wa magotini (si chini ya magoti), ni ndefu au ni fupi? Sasa suti ya kike yenye skirt hiyo, ambayo mvaaji akikaa anabana mapaja au anachora 4, katika nchi za commonwealth iko kwenye dress code ya "business standard". Na hizi kwa kinamama zina mapozi yake, huwezi tu kukaa unajichanulisha! Sasa executive wa kike akivaa hivi, na akiketi na kutembea kama inavyopaswa kwa uvaaji huo, ameharibu nini? Au sisi tuna dress code tofauti na nchi nyingine za commonwealth?
Kama serikali iko serious na dress code, wawashonee wafanyakazi uniform. Mimi naungana na SS aliyoyasema.
Hiyo circular inaainisha adhabu yeyote kwa atakayekiuka?
Hivi hii dress code inazungumzia mavazi peke yake au pamoja na muonekano?
Watz hatuna maadili ya kuvaa mikufu na vidani kwa wanaume, n.k hili linasemaje?
Hiyo circular inaainisha adhabu yeyote kwa atakayekiuka?
Hivi hii dress code inazungumzia mavazi peke yake au pamoja na muonekano?
Watz hatuna maadili ya kuvaa mikufu na vidani kwa wanaume, n.k hili linasemaje?
Masanja
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 1, 2007
- 5,319
- 10,416
Mkuu Hapo nakusoma vizuri kabisa. Hizi biashara nani kavaa nini nadhani we are crossing the line. Certainly mtu akivaa "indecently" hakika atashughulikiwa kadri taratibu zinavyoruhusu. lakini hii ya kusema kwamba watu wasivae nguo fulani simply because haziendani na "maadili ya kitanzania" nadhani we are indirectly trying to impose our values on others. because mpaka leo mimi personally hayo maadili ya kitanzania siyajui zaidi ya kuona watumishi wenye uwezo mdogo wa kufikiria wakijificha nyuma ya hiyo blanket statement bila kutoa hoja kussuport maamuzi yao!
Kwa hiyo mama Simba is very right, tuangalie uwezo wa mtu kufanya kazi na ku-deliver na wala sio kama fulani kavaa hijabu au hajavaa nk..hizo ni personal preferences! Iam a strong advocate of personal liberty! let us not try to impose our values on others rather we should concentrate on those things which we all have in common to work for the better of our motherland. Certainly the way we dress is not one of our commonality.
Happy New Year to you all.
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Nchi gani ulaya wanaenda na chupi na sidiria ofisini? Mheshimiwa, unayajua kweli mavazi ya asili ya watanzania? Heri hiyo mini! Tusikuze kichuguu kuwa mlima!
Mie naomba niunge hoja ya mama hawa mia kwa mia, jamani makahaba wa kinondoni huvaa nguo zile usiku tena kwenye mwanga hafifu, nenda vyuo vikuu vyetu wanavaa mchana kweupe.
Ni nani asiyejua smartness huleta staha na imani kwa mteja. Mie napendekeza watumishi wa umma wawe kwenye uniform na kuvaa vitambulisho muda wote wa kazi, wala isibague waziri au katibu mkuu. Tunajua kuna watu hujitongozesha kwa maboss kwa kuvaa nguo zinazovutia kingono, wengine huvaa nguo aghali waonekane wanazo. Jamani sote tunawaona wafanyakazi wa mabenk wanavyopendeza kwenye uniform na kule ofisi za halmashauri kunavyokatisha tamaa kwa watu kuindia ofisini na makubadhi huku harufu za pombe zimewajaa midomoni.
Kama ni kigezo cha ufanisi maofisa wa Exim bank wanaufanisi mkubwa kuliko wa kule halmashauri za miji na bado wako nadhifu na staha. Nasema msituvalie bikini na pajama kisa "advocate of personal liberty!"
Ni nani asiyejua smartness huleta staha na imani kwa mteja. Mie napendekeza watumishi wa umma wawe kwenye uniform na kuvaa vitambulisho muda wote wa kazi, wala isibague waziri au katibu mkuu. Tunajua kuna watu hujitongozesha kwa maboss kwa kuvaa nguo zinazovutia kingono, wengine huvaa nguo aghali waonekane wanazo. Jamani sote tunawaona wafanyakazi wa mabenk wanavyopendeza kwenye uniform na kule ofisi za halmashauri kunavyokatisha tamaa kwa watu kuindia ofisini na makubadhi huku harufu za pombe zimewajaa midomoni.
Kama ni kigezo cha ufanisi maofisa wa Exim bank wanaufanisi mkubwa kuliko wa kule halmashauri za miji na bado wako nadhifu na staha. Nasema msituvalie bikini na pajama kisa "advocate of personal liberty!"
Mama Ghasia, sio tu mavazi hata ufugaji wa madevu kama kambale haufai. Utankuta mtu mkubwa kabisa anamadevu na sura imekaa kilevi, jamani tuangalieni makamanda wa jeshi walivyo nadhifu na bado wako smart kazini, tizama mawaziri wa rwanda niwatanashati bado wako makini kwenye kazi zao.
Pundit
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 4, 2007
- 3,733
- 141
Again this is a classic example of suspension of the rule of law.Let me make it perfectly clear that as a progressive Tanzanian with countless grave concerns I think discussing the dress code is evidencing twisted priority, and that if at all Hawa Ghasia is using government policy this policy should have been updated when Tanzania allowed beauty pageants.
So in principle I agree with Sofia Simba although the intricacies of detail may differ.
What I find troubling is yet another case of suspended rule of law.Reasonable people will agree if anyone is serious about this outdated policy (I am giving Hawa Ghasia the benefit of doubt that such a policy exists) then efforts should be made to procedurally influence a change in policy.Despite the attractive modernity of Sophia Simba's position, I am concerned that she did not adhere to the rule of law in presenting her perhaps superior observations, therefore conceding to a tecnical knockout even before the issues are discussed because she is not quoting policy.
If we allow the modernity of Sophia Simbas position to blind our commitment to the rule of law we will be setting bad precedent in the annals of public service, with that allowing to be swept by the strong argument of the day without bothering to change the underlying guidelines.
Because of the centrality of the rule of law, despite the obsolete nature of the dress code policy as presented by Ghasia and inspite of the progressive ideas as presented by Sophia Simba, Ghasia wins by Technical knockout because she presented her argument backed by policy, however weak and outdated, while so far Sophia Simba seems to be trying to advance her personal positions backed by the admittedly impotant and influential tide of time.
Unfortunately for Simba, the tide of time is not government policy.She would be wise to find some wonk who can find updated policy to counter the outdated one or if none exists she would do better by concenting on using the tide of time to change policy.
So in principle I agree with Sofia Simba although the intricacies of detail may differ.
What I find troubling is yet another case of suspended rule of law.Reasonable people will agree if anyone is serious about this outdated policy (I am giving Hawa Ghasia the benefit of doubt that such a policy exists) then efforts should be made to procedurally influence a change in policy.Despite the attractive modernity of Sophia Simba's position, I am concerned that she did not adhere to the rule of law in presenting her perhaps superior observations, therefore conceding to a tecnical knockout even before the issues are discussed because she is not quoting policy.
If we allow the modernity of Sophia Simbas position to blind our commitment to the rule of law we will be setting bad precedent in the annals of public service, with that allowing to be swept by the strong argument of the day without bothering to change the underlying guidelines.
Because of the centrality of the rule of law, despite the obsolete nature of the dress code policy as presented by Ghasia and inspite of the progressive ideas as presented by Sophia Simba, Ghasia wins by Technical knockout because she presented her argument backed by policy, however weak and outdated, while so far Sophia Simba seems to be trying to advance her personal positions backed by the admittedly impotant and influential tide of time.
Unfortunately for Simba, the tide of time is not government policy.She would be wise to find some wonk who can find updated policy to counter the outdated one or if none exists she would do better by concenting on using the tide of time to change policy.
Kibunango
Platinum Member
- Aug 29, 2006
- 8,468
- 2,349
ndevu na ulevi wapi na wapi?
Fundi Mchundo
Platinum Member
- Nov 9, 2007
- 10,448
- 8,705
Waheshimiwa, mbona hamsemi kwenye ofisi gani ya serikali, Tanzania na hata Ulaya mmeona mtu amevaa bikini? Condoleeza Rice ambaye inawezekana ndiye mwanamke mwenye nguvu kuliko wote anavaa nguo ambazo wenzetu mtaziita mini(zinaishia juu ya magoti) lakini kwa wengi ni nguo za staha. Hakuna mtu anayeweza kudai kuwa uvaaji wake wa nguo hizo na boots za nguvu zikisisitiza uanamke wake zinampunguzia heshima na ufanisi wake. Eddy, chuo kikuu ni mahali ambapo wanafunzi wanatakiwa wa'test' mipaka ya authority. Mimi binafsi ninapomuona mwanafunzi wa chuo kikuu amevaa suti na tai naingiwa na wasiwasi. Pale ni mahali ambapo non-conformity ndio wajibu. hii inaendana na mpaka mavazi. Mwanafunzi wa Chuo Kikuu akiingia uchi darasani sitamshangaa maana pengine kuna kitu anachotaka kuieleza jamii. Chuo kikuu ni mahali pa fukuto la mawazo. Kamwe usipachanganye na ofisi za serikali. Katika matatizo yote tuliyonayo leo tumapoteza muda wote huu kuangalia jambo ambalo hata halipo( hakuna mtu aliyeweza kutoa mfano wa ofisi ya serikali wanakovaa bikini au pajama)? Kuzungumzia hili ni kama kusimama jukwaani na kusema kuwa kuanzia leo unakataza kunywa pombe katika ofisi za serikali. Kama hii code(ambayo mimi naona ni ya kipuuzi) ipo angeikazia badala ya kuileta katika public realm.
Bin Maryam
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 22, 2007
- 685
- 13
Watanzania hatuna utamaduni wa dressing code. Kwenye mazishi unaona wasela wanazuka na jezi na track suit. Hata kama unachapa kazi vizuri lakini ukashindwa kujiwakilisha mwenyewe, utashindwa vibaya vibaya katika maisha.
Majani ya chai yaliofungwa kwa kutumia mifuko ya cement yanatofauti kubwa sana ki-saikolojia na yale yaliofungwa kwenye packet maalumu kwa ajili ya majani ya chai na hiyo ni fact.
FM hakuna haja ya kugusa eneo Fulan, alichokuwa anazungumzia wazir in General. kwani sikila ofisi ya serikali kuna "wauza MWILI" mie nawafananisha na wanaovaa bikini na na "wauza MWILI"
Beaty Contest hadi sasa haipo serikali RASMI ni Genge la AKINA Hashim wa MISS_TZ ndio wanaotaka tuamini ni jambo la kiserikali. Kuhudhuria viongozi wa serikali hakumaanishi officially by GOV...
wanaosema ku-deliver...is it possible mtu akija ofisini na Bikini yake tukasema tumwache eti ata deliver au ata draw attention za wengine ktk kazi?...
Beaty Contest hadi sasa haipo serikali RASMI ni Genge la AKINA Hashim wa MISS_TZ ndio wanaotaka tuamini ni jambo la kiserikali. Kuhudhuria viongozi wa serikali hakumaanishi officially by GOV...
wanaosema ku-deliver...is it possible mtu akija ofisini na Bikini yake tukasema tumwache eti ata deliver au ata draw attention za wengine ktk kazi?...