Bush na Kikwete; Hizi ndio sababu za kupayuka kwetu?

[Kubwajinga]

KJ,

If your arguments have any merit, your examples are undermining that.

Einstein was not an orator, but he revolutionized communication with conceptual linguistic with his insighful phrases such as "the mind's eye" and countless jewels still widely quoted today.

I doubt Kikwete can even express himself eruditely in Swahili.

Pundit,
It seems like you are just enforcing my point. Ones oratorial skills have nothing to do with inteligence as we know it. However, as you highlighted, even Einstein with his poor communication skills, still the fame from his intelect enabled him to be worshiped, even today, in some few quotes out of his many unmoving and gramaticaly louse speaches.

Let's judge JK on what he does for TZ and less on his expertise in english, though we would have loved him to have some.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit,
It seems like you are just enforcing my point. Ones oratorial skills have nothing to do with inteligence as we know it. However, as you highlighted, even Einstein with his poor communication skills, still the fame from his intelect enabled him to be worshiped, even today, in some few quotes out of his many unmoving and gramaticaly louse speaches.

Let's judge JK on what he does for TZ and less on his expertise in english, though we would have loved him to have some.

You seem not to comprehend the quantum leap between an orator and a concep talker, oratory is lower than concept rich talk. Most geeks like Einstein may lack the oratory and posses the higher level conceptualizing skills that served Einstein and Bohr so well in undestanding and teaching totally foreign concept such as general, special relativity and quantum physics.

The thing is, if you are not a geeky genius of some sort, you can hardly claim to have a conceptualizing head without the oratory, normal people with the gift of conceptualizing are usually also orators.

And Kikwete is neither.

 

[jmushi1]

Sijui hata unazungumzia nini.....

Ni nini ambacho hujaelewa?
Be specific pls.

 

[Kubwajinga]

You seem not to comprehend the quantum leap between an orator and a concep talker, oratory is lower than concept rich talk. Most geeks like Einstein may lack the oratory and posses the higher level conceptualizing skills that served Einstein and Bohr so well in undestanding and teaching totally foreign concept such as general, special relativity and quantum physics.

The thing is, if you are not a geeky genius of some sort, you can hardly claim to have a conceptualizing head without the oratory, normal people with the gift of conceptualizing are usually also orators.

And Kikwete is neither.

Pundit,
I agree with you totaly and to some extent your argument sabstantiate what I have been preaching before.

We ought not to measure inteligence with just some oratorial skills. If you are inteligent you can build concepts at any language even if you might have troubles in articulating them, say in English. Einstein is a very good example.

Therefore, I would like to repeat my previous stance once again; when we judge Kikwete, let's do so on the basis of his conceptualization or his deeds and not on his proficiency or efficiency in a language that he rarely spoke before becoming a minister.

 

[Jasusi]

NO!
Democracy ina chembe chembe za SOCIALISM! Umeji trick kwa kuweka "Social Democracy"

IDEALISTICALLY...UJAMAA NI SERA ZA KUFIKIRIKA KAMA ILIVYO MARXISM!

Make sense?

No, it does not. Scandinavian countries zinafuata sera za social democracy, na hata Ujerumani pia kuna chama hicho. Uingereza Labor ni social democrats as opposed to Conservatives. Ilichukua ukatili, mabavu, uonevu kufanikisha ubepari. Leo tunasifia matunda ya ubepari lakini genesis yake inatisha. Msome Marx kijana, msome Marx.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit,
I agree with you totaly and to some extent your argument sabstantiate what I have been preaching before.

We ought not to measure inteligence with just some oratorial skills. If you are inteligent you can build concepts at any language even if you might have troubles in articulating them, say in English. Einstein is a very good example.

Therefore, I would like to repeat my previous stance once again; when we judge Kikwete, let's do so on the basis of his conceptualization or his deeds and not on his proficiency or efficiency in a language that he rarely spoke before becoming a minister.

KJ,

Nimekosoa more than lugha huko nyuma,

Well, of course we see eye-to-eye on many international issues. Of course we have discussed the issue of Zimbabwe, where we understand your concerns. But I want to assure you that the concerns that you have expressed are indeed the concerns of many of us in the African continent. At the last summit of the African Union, many leaders expressed their dissatisfaction at the way things happened. But also we agreed on the way forward.

The only area that we may differ is on the way forward. You see differently, but for us in Africa we see differently. But I think again, there is still room for us for discussions. We are saying no party can govern alone in Zimbabwe, and therefore the parties have to work together to come up to -- to come out, work together, in a government, and then look at the future of their country together.

Huwezi kusema tunakubaliana kote the "only" area tunayo differ ni on the way forward wakati hapa the only thing that matters is the way forward.Unaweza kuona Kikwete anashindwa kujieleza kidiplomasia, anaishia kusema "you see differently and we see differently"

Hapo unaona kuwa conceptualizing na articulating vina merge kuwa kitu kimoja.

 

[jmushi1]

No, it does not. Scandinavian countries zinafuata sera za social democracy, na hata Ujerumani pia kuna chama hicho. Uingereza Labor ni social democrats as opposed to Conservatives. Ilichukua ukatili, mabavu, uonevu kufanikisha ubepari. Leo tunasifia matunda ya ubepari lakini genesis yake inatisha. Msome Marx kijana, msome Marx.

Sijazungumzia mfumo wa scandnavia..Hoja yangu hapa ni uhusiano kati ya Ujamaa na Marxism.
Kwamba MARXISM NI SAFI LAKINI NI YA KUFIKIRIKA ZAIDI KULIKO KUWEZEKANIKA JUST KAMA UJAMAA.
Ni ideologies ambazo uwezekano wake ni mdogo labda kuwe na CHANGE OF WORLD ORDER.

 

[Kubwajinga]

KJ,

Nimekosoa more than lugha huko nyuma,

Well, of course we see eye-to-eye on many international issues. Of course we have discussed the issue of Zimbabwe, where we understand your concerns. But I want to assure you that the concerns that you have expressed are indeed the concerns of many of us in the African continent. At the last summit of the African Union, many leaders expressed their dissatisfaction at the way things happened. But also we agreed on the way forward.

The only area that we may differ is on the way forward. You see differently, but for us in Africa we see differently. But I think again, there is still room for us for discussions. We are saying no party can govern alone in Zimbabwe, and therefore the parties have to work together to come up to -- to come out, work together, in a government, and then look at the future of their country together.

Huwezi kusema tunakubaliana kote the "only" area tunayo differ ni on the way forward wakati hapa the only thing that matters is the way forward.Unaweza kuona Kikwete anashindwa kujieleza kidiplomasia, anaishia kusema "you see differently and we see differently"

Hapo unaona kuwa conceptualizing na articulating vina merge kuwa kitu kimoja.

Nafikiri interms of content JK yuko sawa kuwa mitazamo yao ya yaliyotokea Zim inafanana ila solution zao ndio tofauti, which unfortunately it is the only thing that matters, the way forward.

Nafikiri cha muhimu kuangalia hapa isiwe ni utamu wa lugha aliyotumia, kwani JK sio Mkapa. Bali tuangalie tofauti ya maneno ya JK na ya Membe. Misingi (concepts) ya TZ haiwezi kuonekana kwani kidiplomasia tunayumbayumba sana hivi sasa. Ndio maana hii thread ikaitwa kupayuka kwetu, sababu zikiwa kukosa misimamo kwa TZ na hivyo kuongea tu kile wakubwa wanachotaka kusikia tukiwa peke yetu, halafu tukiwa mbele ya waafrika wenzetu tunabadili lugha.

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

NN: I am definetely not talking of causation here, I am only refering to correlation. That saidi, yes, of course, I am not saying that communication skills and language are the only predictors of intelligence; on the contrary, I am saying that they are one of the strong predictors. FYI I am in line with Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence-in this case I cannot claim that language and communication skills are the only attributes of intelligence, far from it!

JokaKuu: Unakosea sana unaposema kwamba tuhahitaji maendeleo ya uchumi tu, n.k lakini hapohapo unajichanganya unaposema unahitaji "ku-mobilise" forces za kiuchumi-sasa uta-mobilise vipi kama huwezi ku-communicate vision yako sawasawa? Halafu una-miss point muhimu sana, nayo ni kwamba kwa sasa TZ tunahitaji sana an inspiration leader ili kuwahamasisha watu waweze kutumia potential zao kwa kufanya kazi kwa bidii, wajue majukumu yao ni yapi na ya serikali ni yap, etc-yote haya yanahitaji mtu mwenye uwezo wa kuzungumza sawasawa sio uswahili, kuchekacheka, soga, n.k.

Haya sasa huyu jamaa yetu ana miaka mitatu madarakani unaweza kuniambia dira na faslafa yake ya uongozi hasa ni ipi? Inawezekana kabisa anayo lakini hatuijui kwa sababu ya udhaifu wa kujenga hoja na uduni wa uwezo wa kimawasiliano. Mafanikio mengi ya Nyerere yalitokana na uwezo wake wa kuzungumza, kujenga hoja, kushawishi. Vilevile Mkapa aliweza kuwashawishi wazungu kutufutia lundo la madeni na kupata ushirikiano wa ajabu wa kila nchi ya magharibi partly kwa sababu ya uwezo wake wa kimawasiliano.

Sasa swala la EPA,Meremeta, Kiwira, n.k. limewashinda hawa jamaa wa CCM partly kwa sababu hawawezi kuwasiliana wanachokijua na wanachotaka wananchi tujue. Hata kujitetea hawawezi, kila wakinyanyua mdomo ni kuchemsha, kuropoka, kuibua kashfa ingine, partly hii ni kwa sababu viongozi wetu wengi hawana kabisa uwezo wa kuwasiliana.

Ninakwambia hizi issue zote ingekuwa Mkapa ndio yupo madarakani zingeshaisha, angejenga hoja, whether positively or negatively, lakini angelimaliza. Lakini kwa sababu ya uduni wa kimawasiliano wa hawa jamaa zetu waliopo madarakani tumejikuta miaka mitatu ya JK tunaongelea jambo moja tu- ufisadi wa EPA, tumesimama, hatuendi, tumekwama kabisa-lakini ukichunguza kwa makini kwa nini-sio kwa sababu ya EPA, ni kwa sababu ya uwezo mdogo wa viongozi wetu ikiwemo uwezo hafifu wa kujieleza. Kujieleza ni silaha muhimu sana sana kwa uongozi wa kisiasa hasa katika ulimwengu wa demokrasia ambao haukwepeki kabisa kwa sasa.

Don't ever misunderestimate the power of communication skills and language.

 

[Hauxtable]

Hauxtable,
.... A characteriser of your moniker in the person of Bill Cosby is known for incessantly chastising the black community in the US,..... he cannot begin to address the problems of illiteracy in America if he cannot address the problems of illiteracy in his hometown of Philadelphia.

I suppose Mr.Huxtable(Bill Cosby) is a learned person noted for wisdom,full of knowledge and judgement(if you could read:'come on,people').I guess he is being misunderstood,especialy by Political Pundits.....

Anyway comming back to the main issue,you still haven't answered my very simple Question:consider all matters constant,Is Mr.Bush an Idiot or Not???

 

[Kubwajinga]

NN: I am definetely not talking of causation here, I am only refering to correlation. That saidi, yes, of course, I am not saying that communication skills and language are the only predictors of intelligence; on the contrary, I am saying that they are one of the strong predictors. FYI I am in line with Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence-in this case I cannot claim that language and communication skills are the only attributes of intelligence, far from it!

JokaKuu: Unakosea sana unaposema kwamba tuhahitaji maendeleo ya uchumi tu, n.k lakini hapohapo unajichanganya unaposema unahitaji "ku-mobilise" forces za kiuchumi-sasa uta-mobilise vipi kama huwezi ku-communicate vision yako sawasawa? Halafu una-miss point muhimu sana, nayo ni kwamba kwa sasa TZ tunahitaji sana an inspiration leader ili kuwahamasisha watu waweze kutumia potential zao kwa kufanya kazi kwa bidii, wajue majukumu yao ni yapi na ya serikali ni yap, etc-yote haya yanahitaji mtu mwenye uwezo wa kuzungumza sawasawa sio uswahili, kuchekacheka, soga, n.k.

Haya sasa huyu jamaa yetu ana miaka mitatu madarakani unaweza kuniambia dira na faslafa yake ya uongozi hasa ni ipi? Inawezekana kabisa anayo lakini hatuijui kwa sababu ya udhaifu wa kujenga hoja na uduni wa uwezo wa kimawasiliano. Mafanikio mengi ya Nyerere yalitokana na uwezo wake wa kuzungumza, kujenga hoja, kushawishi. Vilevile Mkapa aliweza kuwashawishi wazungu kutufutia lundo la madeni na kupata ushirikiano wa ajabu wa kila nchi ya magharibi partly kwa sababu ya uwezo wake wa kimawasiliano.

Sasa swala la EPA,Meremeta, Kiwira, n.k. limewashinda hawa jamaa wa CCM partly kwa sababu hawawezi kuwasiliana wanachokijua na wanachotaka wananchi tujue. Hata kujitetea hawawezi, kila wakinyanyua mdomo ni kuchemsha, kuropoka, kuibua kashfa ingine, partly hii ni kwa sababu viongozi wetu wengi hawana kabisa uwezo wa kuwasiliana.

Ninakwambia hizi issue zote ingekuwa Mkapa ndio yupo madarakani zingeshaisha, angejenga hoja, whether positively or negatively, lakini angelimaliza. Lakini kwa sababu ya uduni wa kimawasiliano wa hawa jamaa zetu waliopo madarakani tumejikuta miaka mitatu ya JK tunaongelea jambo moja tu- ufisadi wa EPA, tumesimama, hatuendi, tumekwama kabisa-lakini ukichunguza kwa makini kwa nini-sio kwa sababu ya EPA, ni kwa sababu ya uwezo mdogo wa viongozi wetu ikiwemo uwezo hafifu wa kujieleza. Kujieleza ni silaha muhimu sana sana kwa uongozi wa kisiasa hasa katika ulimwengu wa demokrasia ambao haukwepeki kabisa kwa sasa.

Don't ever misunderestimate the power of communication skills and language.

Underestimating ones skills in communicating is stupidy as it is one of the key attributes of a leader. But let's not confuse eloquence in english language to skills to communicate. JK is not as proficiency in english as Mkapa, but his communication skills are just perfect especially in swahili.

The difference between solutions in Mkapa and JK are that, with Mkapa probably he would have used state organs to silence all outspoken critics, recall Jenerali Ulimwengu's saga. While with JK, he has relaxed a bit this method and no wonder why the likes of Mwanahalisi gets a chance to do their investigative reporting.

 

[The Khoisan]

Nafikiri interms of content JK yuko sawa kuwa mitazamo yao ya yaliyotokea Zim inafanana ila solution zao ndio tofauti, which unfortunately it is the only thing that matters, the way forward.

Nafikiri cha muhimu kuangalia hapa isiwe ni utamu wa lugha aliyotumia, kwani JK sio Mkapa. Bali tuangalie tofauti ya maneno ya JK na ya Membe. Misingi (concepts) ya TZ haiwezi kuonekana kwani kidiplomasia tunayumbayumba sana hivi sasa. Ndio maana hii thread ikaitwa kupayuka kwetu, sababu zikiwa kukosa misimamo kwa TZ na hivyo kuongea tu kile wakubwa wanachotaka kusikia tukiwa peke yetu, halafu tukiwa mbele ya waafrika wenzetu tunabadili lugha.

Hivi kati ya JK na Membe, yupi kati yao anakata issues kisawasawa!!!!

 

[PakaShume]

Nafikiri wa Tanzania mmeanza kujisahau kuwa nyinyi ni Watanzania, na uwezowenu unaonekana kupitia kwa Raisi wetu wa Tanzania. Sawa na nchi nyengine - ambapo sura ya Raisi wao ndio inawaonesha wao walivyo huko kwao - Mugabe na Zimbabwe, Bush na USA - Sifikirii ukiweka Raisi mwengine kwa Tanzania kutaleta mabadiliko makubwa yoyote kwa kubadilisha huyo mmoja!

Nafikiri tushukuru tulichonacho (tulokuwa nae) kwa sasa hivi - tusubiri nafasi ya mwengine itakapokuja 2015 - kupitia tena kamati kuu ya CCM - Huu ndo ukweli - ukitaka usitake!