Cost comparison SGR Kenya vs SGR Tanzania

Cost comparison SGR Kenya vs SGR Tanzania

From the outset, let me state that I am not with the Kenya vs. Tanzania nationalism bs. Einstein said it best when he said nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind.

I would like to think that, having chosen to settle in New York, having a father who went to the University of Nairobi in the heyday of The East African Community, and having toured all over East Africa, partly for East Africa FM (then based in Dar), and having had first hand experience of intermingling with the good people of EA on a people to people cooperation that sometimes gets overshadowed here by some overzealous internet thugs, I ought to absolve myself out of any petty nationalistic squabble and stay permanently above that lowly animalistic fray.

Let's go with reason, data and a civil discussion, if at all possible. I know we have all been home trained, at least I would like to think so.

I just wanted to share a New York Times article that I read on yesterdays (Friday June 9th 2017) print version of the NYT.

As I was reading the piece on my way to work, two conflicting things became very apparent.

1. The NYT is representing western interests and as distinguished as it is, it is not unimpeachable.

2. The NYT has very high standards. It is entirely possible that, the NYT is right and the article is merely a voicing of important harbingers of a more poignant new Chinese colonialism.

If Francis Scott Fitzgeralg was right when he said "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.", then we are off to a good start.

In any case, it is food for though. As Jigga famously said, you do the dishes, do the addition.

What worries me even more is, judging from the NYT figures and some of the above floated figures for the Tanzanian SGR, the Tanzanian project is almost twice the cost of the Kenyan project (7.6 bn vs 4 bn USD). Granted that Tanzanian is the bigger country, it is conceivable for its railway to cost more, but if the below concerns that the Kenyan railway is overpriced are relevant, then the Tanzanian one can be said to be even more overpriced.

I haven't looked into the blue books and beige books for a focused analysis, but I am concerned if these two East African neighbors will get value for money.

Sorry if this was already discussed here, I have not seen it and did not want to chance anyone who is seriously mulling the matter miss it.

The NYT articl is at https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/...-railway-is-another-lunatic-express.html?_r=0

Kenyans Fear Chinese-Backed Railway Is Another ‘Lunatic Express’
点击查看本文中文版


By KIMIKO de FREYTAS-TAMURAJUNE 8, 2017

Continue reading the main storyShare This Page
  • China, looks more like an airport terminal reserved for wealthy Kenyans and their private jets.

    Given the price tag, it might just as well be.

    President Uhuru Kenyatta’s government spent $4 billion on a 300-mile railway connecting the capital to the Indian Ocean port of Mombasa, the most expensive infrastructure project since Kenya’s independence 54 years ago and one-fifth of its national budget.

    Eager to portray it as a major achievement ahead of national elections in August, Mr. Kenyatta opened the so-called Standard Gauge Railway last Wednesday. But the fanfare was overshadowed by a concern that has been snowballing for months, filling many Kenyans with mild terror: How can the country repay its monstrous debt to China?

    China’s Eximbank accounts for about 90 percent of the Nairobi-Mombasa project. The loan has already pushed the Kenyan debt above 50 percent of output, and imports of Chinese supplies and materials required to build the railway are making people anxious about Kenya’s worsening trade imbalance with China.
The Kenyan government says that the railway will increase gross domestic product by 1.5 percent, and that the loan will be paid back in about four years. The government is also aiming to run the trains on electricity.

Photo
00Nairobi2-master675.jpg

Chinese employees helped passengers to scan their tickets. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
Ken Mugane, a Nairobi businessman who went on a test ride a few days before it opened officially, said the train was impressive, echoing widespread opinion that it would improve trade and reduce congestion. The Express service cuts travel time by about half — to five hours from 10.

But very little of it conjured an image of Kenya, he said, except maybe for the landscape. “It needs to look like it’s ours,” he said. “After all, we’re going to pay for it through our noses, aren’t we?”

Small details seemed designed to remind Kenyans that the project wasn’t a free ride, he joked. Pamphlets were in Chinese. Some staff members wore uniforms of red and gold — the colors of China’s flag. Even the music on the train wasn’t Kenyan, he complained.

The biggest surprise, Mr. Mugane said, was seeing a sculpture of Mao Zedong at the Mombasa station. (It was actually of Zheng He, a 15th-century Chinese explorer who sailed to East Africa.) The man putting it on a plinth was Chinese, Mr. Mugane noted. “Even that wasn’t being done by a Kenyan,” he said ruefully.

Despite such misgivings, Kenya wouldn’t have had its first new railway for more than a century – the last one was built by the British in 1901 – if it weren’t for Chinese loans and China’s strong record of getting projects built on time. It took less than four years for the line to be completed.

China’s state-run news media has celebrated its completion as demonstrating a Chinese commitment to African development.

Photo
00Nairobi3-master675.jpg

Passengers settling into the Nairobi-Mombasa train. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
The new Kenyan line “bears the Kenyan people’s dream for this century of striving for national development and prosperity,” a Chinese vice foreign minister, Zhang Ming, said in Nairobi this month. “This also shows China’s firm support for Kenya achieving independent and sustainable development.”

But on Kenyan television, reports about the railway’s opening invariably turned to its inflated cost, and to questions of corruption. On one show, a politician who had switched allegiances from the opposition to Mr. Kenyatta’s party and who extolled the railway’s virtues was quickly submerged by calls from viewers. “You are lying,” one person said. “You were bribed.”

As a result of the railway’s gargantuan cost, and the equally enormous task of repaying China, some Kenyans already have a nickname for it: the Lunatic Express 2.

The name Lunatic Express was coined more than a century ago to describe a colonial British railway so costly it was considered a “gigantic folly,” even by the standards of the Empire. The 660-mile line linked Lake Victoria with Mombasa. Thousands of laborers, most of them Indians, died from harsh working conditions, disease, hostile tribes and even man-eating lions.

In recent years, riding the train had become an act of lunacy itself. Passengers boarded a rusting, creaking millipede overtaken by trucks, buses and grazing animals that had claimed parts of the railway as resting spots.

The SGR, its Chinese successor, travels much faster, averaging 74 miles an hour, and is designed to carry 22 million tons of cargo a year. Its construction involved little foreign labor or murderous animals. The lunacy, many Kenyans say, is the idea of generations being chained to China, long after Mr. Kenyatta and his coterie leave office.

Photo
00Nairobi4-master675.jpg

The Railway Museum in Nairobi. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
“It’s madness,” said Samuel Nyandemo, a senior lecturer in economics at Nairobi University, who was visibly outraged. Why, he almost shouted, is the railway twice as expensive as a similar project in neighboring Ethiopia or Morocco? And why was the tendering process done behind closed doors, if not to allow Kenya’s political elite to pocket vast sums of kickbacks?

“This is another type of lunacy,” he said.

There are parallels between the old Lunatic line and its replacement, said Elias Randiga, the assistant director of the Railway Museum in Nairobi, a stone’s throw from the original Nairobi Station.



Shabby and dilapidated, it had imposing lettering on one wall that read (as if to drive the point that lower classes weren’t welcome), “Upper Class Booking and Ticketing Office.”

Opened in 1899, the building was constructed on marshland used by Maasai pastoralists to graze their cattle. The name Nairobi is derived from the Maasai word meaning “a place of cool waters.”

Today, a cacophonous, chaotic city shoves itself onto the grounds of the prim Victorian station. “Matatu” buses unceremoniously dump off passengers, while businessmen in suits buy fruit from village women. A bright-red election bus spilling over with President Kenyatta’s supporters recently snarled traffic, as some hopped off and strutted to Kenyan pop music and the honking horns of irritated drivers.

The British railway, Mr. Randiga said, was built to extract and ship out natural resources from the African interior, something that many Westerners frequently accuse China of doing.

Photo
00Nairobi5-master675.jpg

Scenes from the construction of the the British railway known as the Lunatic Express are painted on a wall outside the museum. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
The Indian laborers working for the British faced a hostile environment, including the sheer physical challenge of laying down 17,000 miles of track that climbed into mountains and then descended into the Great Rift Valley.

More than 4,000 people died during the railway’s construction. Among them, dozens were killed and eaten by lions, including one British man who was dragged out of his bed by one. “Tsavo camp remained very much a man-eater’s chophouse,” wrote Charles Miller in “The Lunatic Express,” a book about the railway’s construction, referring to the region that became Tsavo National Park.

Lion attacks were so bad that Indian laborers went on strike, Mr. Randiga said. “There was a myth among Indians that they were targeted because they ate spice and lions liked spice,” he said, taking out a small plastic box from a drawer and presenting it. In it were century-old claws that belonged to one of the lions, yellowed and smooth like pieces of ivory. (“I keep them under lock and key,” he said.)

The Chinese railway has also not been without controversy. At least 10 elephants were killed during construction when they collided with trains, according to Save the Elephants, a nongovernmental group.

Just as there has been local opposition to the Chinese-made railway over land issues, the British were attacked by a tribe led by a man who had prophesied that an “Iron Snake” would lure its people and colonize them.

“Which turned out to be true,” said Mr. Randiga.

He proceeded to recite a poem by a British politician, Henry Labouchere, who opposed the railway’s construction back in the early 1900s. It says, in part:

Where it is going to, nobody knows.

What is the use of it, none can conjecture.

What it will carry there’s none can define.

It is clearly nought but a lunatic line.

Mr. Randiga paused, and laughed. “We have the same debate today.
 
Al-Watan u r short sighted go through posts n u will see useful arguments on the project's costs n how corrupt was the procurement process. U have no right to come n tell us what to discuss n not to discuss. JF is a platform where people speak openly n expose evil in our poor n corrupt functioning Governments. Find a thread that suit ur taste n stop telling us how to behave in here.
 
Al-Watan u r short sighted go through posts n u will see useful arguments on the project's costs n how corrupt was the procurement process. U have no right to come n tell us what to discuss n not to discuss. JF is a platform where people speak openly n expose evil in our poor n corrupt functioning Governments. Find a thread that suit ur taste n stop telling us how to behave in here.
Mazee,

That I haven't read all the posts is not being shortsighted. Nobody has. You are misusing the word.

I doubt you have any interest in the accurate usage of words at all.

I think you saying that I am telling you what to discuss and what to not discuss is being short sighted, your sight is short because you lack the retinal reach to see context and lay off the unnecessary sensitivity.

I bet if you read Shaaban Robert's "Adili na Nduguze" you will also blame him for being short sighted.

I am by nature a libertarian and from that, by axiomatic fiat I refrain from injecting myself in anothers freedom, as long as it does not impede mine. That does not mean my opining is necessarily telling you what to discuss.

Moreover, you telling me to not tell you what to discuss here is essentially telling me what not to discuss here.

You are therefore violating your own principle in a very self serving way.

To a point where I begin to doubt your sanity or your intellectual honesty.

Perhaps both are "short circuited" by a shortsighted mercantilist nationalism in an age of global power moves .
 
Mazee,

That I haven't read all the posts is not being shortsighted. Nobody has. You are misusing the word.

I doubt you have any interest in the accurate usage of words at all.

I think you saying that I am telling you what to discuss and what to not discuss is being short sighted, your sight is short because you lack the retinal reach to see context and lay off the unnecessary sensitivity.

I bet if you read Shaaban Robert's "Adili na Nduguze" you will also blame him for being short sighted.

I am by nature a libertarian and from that, by axiomatic fiat I refrain from injecting myself in anothers freedom, as long as it does not impede mine. That does not mean my opining is necessarily telling you what to discuss.

Moreover, you telling me to not tell you what to discuss here is essentially telling me what not to discuss here.

You are therefore violating your own principle in a very self serving way.

To a point where I begin to doubt your sanity or your intellectual honesty.

Perhaps both are "short circuited" by a shortsighted mercantilist nationalism in an age of global power moves .
Tafuta cha kufanya Mzee. ..
 
Cha kufanya ninachopenda ni malumbano ya hoja.

Kitu ambacho ni wazi wewe huwezi.
Ni kweli na ndo maana nimekushauri utafute thread inayo-fit ur ego mi siko hapa kwa ajili ya malumbano ya hoja na watu binafsi. I discuss big issues
 
Ni kweli na ndo maana nimekushauri utafute thread inayo-fit ur ego mi siko hapa kwa ajili ya malumbano ya hoja na watu binafsi. I discuss big issues
Big issues hazina malumbano ya hoja?

Mtu anayeelewa malumbano ya hoja hatapinga mtu anayetaka kujua mjadala kwa reason na data.

Hata link ungetoa kuonyesha hoja zako.

Nashuku unaelewa "big issue" ni nini.
 
Big issues hazina malumbano ya hoja?

Mtu anayeelewa malumbano ya hoja hatapinga mtu anayetaka kujua mjadala kwa reason na data.

Hata link ungetoa kuonyesha hoja zako.

Nashuku unaelewa "big issue" ni nini.
Nenda ukanyonye ulale
 
From the outset, let me state that I am not with the Kenya vs. Tanzania nationalism bs. Einstein said it best when he said nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind.

I would like to think that, having chosen to settle in New York, having a father who went to the University of Nairobi in the heyday of The East African Community, and having toured all over East Africa, partly for East Africa FM (then based in Dar), and having had first hand experience of intermingling with the good people of EA on a people to people cooperation that sometimes gets overshadowed here by some overzealous internet thugs, I ought to absolve myself out of any petty nationalistic squabble and stay permanently above that lowly animalistic fray.

Let's go with reason, data and a civil discussion, if at all possible. I know we have all been home trained, at least I would like to think so.

I just wanted to share a New York Times article that I read on yesterdays (Friday June 9th 2017) print version of the NYT.

As I was reading the piece on my way to work, two conflicting things became very apparent.

1. The NYT is representing western interests and as distinguished as it is, it is not unimpeachable.

2. The NYT has very high standards. It is entirely possible that, the NYT is right and the article is merely a voicing of important harbingers of a more poignant new Chinese colonialism.

If Francis Scott Fitzgeralg was right when he said "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.", then we are off to a good start.

In any case, it is food for though. As Jigga famously said, you do the dishes, do the addition.

What worries me even more is, judging from the NYT figures and some of the above floated figures for the Tanzanian SGR, the Tanzanian project is almost twice the cost of the Kenyan project (7.6 bn vs 4 bn USD). Granted that Tanzanian is the bigger country, it is conceivable for its railway to cost more, but if the below concerns that the Kenyan railway is overpriced are relevant, then the Tanzanian one can be said to be even more overpriced.

I haven't looked into the blue books and beige books for a focused analysis, but I am concerned if these two East African neighbors will get value for money.

Sorry if this was already discussed here, I have not seen it and did not want to chance anyone who is seriously mulling the matter miss it.

The NYT articl is at https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/...-railway-is-another-lunatic-express.html?_r=0

Kenyans Fear Chinese-Backed Railway Is Another ‘Lunatic Express’
点击查看本文中文版


By KIMIKO de FREYTAS-TAMURAJUNE 8, 2017

Continue reading the main storyShare This Page
  • China, looks more like an airport terminal reserved for wealthy Kenyans and their private jets.

    Given the price tag, it might just as well be.

    President Uhuru Kenyatta’s government spent $4 billion on a 300-mile railway connecting the capital to the Indian Ocean port of Mombasa, the most expensive infrastructure project since Kenya’s independence 54 years ago and one-fifth of its national budget.

    Eager to portray it as a major achievement ahead of national elections in August, Mr. Kenyatta opened the so-called Standard Gauge Railway last Wednesday. But the fanfare was overshadowed by a concern that has been snowballing for months, filling many Kenyans with mild terror: How can the country repay its monstrous debt to China?

    China’s Eximbank accounts for about 90 percent of the Nairobi-Mombasa project. The loan has already pushed the Kenyan debt above 50 percent of output, and imports of Chinese supplies and materials required to build the railway are making people anxious about Kenya’s worsening trade imbalance with China.
The Kenyan government says that the railway will increase gross domestic product by 1.5 percent, and that the loan will be paid back in about four years. The government is also aiming to run the trains on electricity.

Photo
00Nairobi2-master675.jpg

Chinese employees helped passengers to scan their tickets. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
Ken Mugane, a Nairobi businessman who went on a test ride a few days before it opened officially, said the train was impressive, echoing widespread opinion that it would improve trade and reduce congestion. The Express service cuts travel time by about half — to five hours from 10.

But very little of it conjured an image of Kenya, he said, except maybe for the landscape. “It needs to look like it’s ours,” he said. “After all, we’re going to pay for it through our noses, aren’t we?”

Small details seemed designed to remind Kenyans that the project wasn’t a free ride, he joked. Pamphlets were in Chinese. Some staff members wore uniforms of red and gold — the colors of China’s flag. Even the music on the train wasn’t Kenyan, he complained.

The biggest surprise, Mr. Mugane said, was seeing a sculpture of Mao Zedong at the Mombasa station. (It was actually of Zheng He, a 15th-century Chinese explorer who sailed to East Africa.) The man putting it on a plinth was Chinese, Mr. Mugane noted. “Even that wasn’t being done by a Kenyan,” he said ruefully.

Despite such misgivings, Kenya wouldn’t have had its first new railway for more than a century – the last one was built by the British in 1901 – if it weren’t for Chinese loans and China’s strong record of getting projects built on time. It took less than four years for the line to be completed.

China’s state-run news media has celebrated its completion as demonstrating a Chinese commitment to African development.

Photo
00Nairobi3-master675.jpg

Passengers settling into the Nairobi-Mombasa train. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
The new Kenyan line “bears the Kenyan people’s dream for this century of striving for national development and prosperity,” a Chinese vice foreign minister, Zhang Ming, said in Nairobi this month. “This also shows China’s firm support for Kenya achieving independent and sustainable development.”

But on Kenyan television, reports about the railway’s opening invariably turned to its inflated cost, and to questions of corruption. On one show, a politician who had switched allegiances from the opposition to Mr. Kenyatta’s party and who extolled the railway’s virtues was quickly submerged by calls from viewers. “You are lying,” one person said. “You were bribed.”

As a result of the railway’s gargantuan cost, and the equally enormous task of repaying China, some Kenyans already have a nickname for it: the Lunatic Express 2.

The name Lunatic Express was coined more than a century ago to describe a colonial British railway so costly it was considered a “gigantic folly,” even by the standards of the Empire. The 660-mile line linked Lake Victoria with Mombasa. Thousands of laborers, most of them Indians, died from harsh working conditions, disease, hostile tribes and even man-eating lions.

In recent years, riding the train had become an act of lunacy itself. Passengers boarded a rusting, creaking millipede overtaken by trucks, buses and grazing animals that had claimed parts of the railway as resting spots.

The SGR, its Chinese successor, travels much faster, averaging 74 miles an hour, and is designed to carry 22 million tons of cargo a year. Its construction involved little foreign labor or murderous animals. The lunacy, many Kenyans say, is the idea of generations being chained to China, long after Mr. Kenyatta and his coterie leave office.

Photo
00Nairobi4-master675.jpg

The Railway Museum in Nairobi. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
“It’s madness,” said Samuel Nyandemo, a senior lecturer in economics at Nairobi University, who was visibly outraged. Why, he almost shouted, is the railway twice as expensive as a similar project in neighboring Ethiopia or Morocco? And why was the tendering process done behind closed doors, if not to allow Kenya’s political elite to pocket vast sums of kickbacks?

“This is another type of lunacy,” he said.

There are parallels between the old Lunatic line and its replacement, said Elias Randiga, the assistant director of the Railway Museum in Nairobi, a stone’s throw from the original Nairobi Station.



Shabby and dilapidated, it had imposing lettering on one wall that read (as if to drive the point that lower classes weren’t welcome), “Upper Class Booking and Ticketing Office.”

Opened in 1899, the building was constructed on marshland used by Maasai pastoralists to graze their cattle. The name Nairobi is derived from the Maasai word meaning “a place of cool waters.”

Today, a cacophonous, chaotic city shoves itself onto the grounds of the prim Victorian station. “Matatu” buses unceremoniously dump off passengers, while businessmen in suits buy fruit from village women. A bright-red election bus spilling over with President Kenyatta’s supporters recently snarled traffic, as some hopped off and strutted to Kenyan pop music and the honking horns of irritated drivers.

The British railway, Mr. Randiga said, was built to extract and ship out natural resources from the African interior, something that many Westerners frequently accuse China of doing.

Photo
00Nairobi5-master675.jpg

Scenes from the construction of the the British railway known as the Lunatic Express are painted on a wall outside the museum. CreditAdriane Ohanesian for The New York Times
The Indian laborers working for the British faced a hostile environment, including the sheer physical challenge of laying down 17,000 miles of track that climbed into mountains and then descended into the Great Rift Valley.

More than 4,000 people died during the railway’s construction. Among them, dozens were killed and eaten by lions, including one British man who was dragged out of his bed by one. “Tsavo camp remained very much a man-eater’s chophouse,” wrote Charles Miller in “The Lunatic Express,” a book about the railway’s construction, referring to the region that became Tsavo National Park.

Lion attacks were so bad that Indian laborers went on strike, Mr. Randiga said. “There was a myth among Indians that they were targeted because they ate spice and lions liked spice,” he said, taking out a small plastic box from a drawer and presenting it. In it were century-old claws that belonged to one of the lions, yellowed and smooth like pieces of ivory. (“I keep them under lock and key,” he said.)

The Chinese railway has also not been without controversy. At least 10 elephants were killed during construction when they collided with trains, according to Save the Elephants, a nongovernmental group.

Just as there has been local opposition to the Chinese-made railway over land issues, the British were attacked by a tribe led by a man who had prophesied that an “Iron Snake” would lure its people and colonize them.

“Which turned out to be true,” said Mr. Randiga.

He proceeded to recite a poem by a British politician, Henry Labouchere, who opposed the railway’s construction back in the early 1900s. It says, in part:

Where it is going to, nobody knows.

What is the use of it, none can conjecture.

What it will carry there’s none can define.

It is clearly nought but a lunatic line.

Mr. Randiga paused, and laughed. “We have the same debate today.
U should put a source for this before u ask for data n reasoning as u just plagiarised this report from the Nation...
 
U should put a source for this before u ask for data n reasoning as u just plagiarised this report...
A source for what? When you say "this" what is this "this"?

Perfect precision please!

You are almost irredeemably incoherent.

Is battling Kenyans really all that taxing to your mental state? Or are you just naturally gifted with stupidity?

Do you even know how to read?
 
A source for what? When you say "this" what is this "this"?

Perfect precision please!

You are almost irredeemably incoherent.

Is battling Kenyans really all that taxing to your mental state? Or are you just naturally gifted with stupidity?

Do you even know how to read?
another Jingoistic Kenyan u r energizing me to keep it real. This forum is a wrong place for ur propaganda
 
another Jingoistic Kenyan u r energizing me to keep it real. This forum is a wrong place for ur propaganda

That is where your myopic shortsightedness of Kenya vs Tanzania comes to full view.

I am not Kenyan actually. Nor would I ever want to be.

Why should I?

I am going to talk just about my Tanzanian first families connetions. Just to underline that I am not only a Tanzanian, but I am one who at next to Salama in school. Translated the Dhammapad with Andrew at temple, went right back to chill with Ernest at my B-Boy stand and jetted out to America before the folly of the Kikwete Administation and the subequent oozing of shit right out of government could infect me too much before I could raise myself up to my humanity level senses.

I was born at Ocean Road. Right by Ikulu. My mother worked for the Nyerere Ikulu. My father was CEO (presidential appointee) of a prominent institution. I went to school with Salama Mwinyi at Muhimbili. Ndama Pedeshee still owes me money from Tambaza days (well, no presidential connection there, but Ndama is in the news and he took me to see the late Kitwana Kondo at Mtitu after a lenghthy Tambaza day). I hated UDSM so much that I skipped to America right after high school - even as my Uncle taught there and I had the grades to get in.

Let's see. What else.

I am so Tanzanian that Yoweri Museveni gave his apartment (Ikulu provided to him back then) to my mother when my mother (Ikulu employee back then) wanted it. We even paid Museveni's electric (TANESCO) bills, he was a poor joke of himself back then and we just wanted to move to Upanga and move this government leeching sucker out.

I am so Tanzanian that I could tell you abut intrigues of the Nyerere, Mwinyi, Mkapa and Kikwete Ikulus.

I am so Tanzanian that my Uncle married a Makwaia. Do you even know what that name represents?

Why, I went to school with Salama - actually punched her when she showed me the new Mwinyi coin back in '86, in a lording way, sorry, egalitarianism ruled over gentlemanly ways back then Salama-, translated the Dhammapada with Andrew - sorry Andrew I left before Pannasekara and I could warap up the project- and sat on our B-Boy stand with Ernest at the Temples gate while blackballing Mkapa without minding that the person who shaved his balding head was my buddy sitting next to me.

Do you even know who these people are in the previous Tanzanian first families?

How dare you say that I am Kenyan?

Just because I mentioned that my father went to The University of Nairobi in the heyday of the EA Community that gives your birdbrained head the license to assume that I am Kenyan?
 
That is where your myopic shortsightness of Kenya vs Tanzania comes to full view.

I am not Kenyan actually. Nor would I ever want to be.

Why should I?

I am going to talk just about my Tanzanian first families connetions

I was born at Ocean Road. Right by Ikulu. My mother worked for the Nyerere Ikulu. My father was CEO (presidential appointee) of a prominent institution. I went to school with Salama Mwinyi at Muhimbili. Ndama Pedeshee still owes me money from Tambaza days (well, no presidential connection there, but Ndama is in the news and he took me to see the late Kitwana Kondo at Mtitu after a lenghthy Tambaza day). I hated UDSM so much that I skipped to America right after high school - even as my Uncle taught there and I had the grades to get in.

Let's see. What else.

I am so Tanzanian that Yoweri Museveni gave his apartment (Ikulu provided to him back then) to my mother when my mother (Ikulu employee back then) wanted it. We even paid Museveni's electric (TANESCO) bills, he was a poor joke of himself back then and we just wanted to move to Upanga and move this government leeching sucker out.

I am so Tanzanian that I could tell you abut intrigues of the Nyerere, Mwinyi, Mkapa and Kikwete Ikulus.

I am so Tanzanian that my Uncle married a Makwaia. Do you even know what that name represents?

Why, I went to school with Salama - actually punched her when she showed me the new Mwinyi coin back in '86, in a lording way, sorry, egalitarianism ruled over gentlemanly ways back then Salama-, translated the Dhammapada with Andrew - sorry Andrew I left before Pannasekara and I could warap up the project- and sat on our B-Boy stand with Ernest at the Temples gate while blackballing Mkapa without minding that the person who shaved his balding head was my buddy sitting next to me.

Do you even know who these people are in the previous Tanzanian first families?

How dare you say that I am Kenyan?

Just because I mentioned that my father went to The University of Nairobi in the heyday of the EA Community that gives your birdbrained head the license to assume that I am Kenyan?
Bullocks...

Sent from my SM-J320F using JamiiForums mobile app
 
meanwhile as TZ looks for funding

services are picking up as more than 16,000 Kenyans already served on the trial service
only two express trains are currently in use, three more to be in service in the coming months
tickets for the next day are sold out with people now booking 2 days in advance as an online and M-PESA based ticketing system to be launched tomorrow on Monday


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Let me make clear about tz sgr funding, phase 1 is dar to mza and is divided into five parts as follows: dar-moro, moro-makutupora, makutupora-tabora, tabora-isaka and isaka-mza,
The fund for dar to Moro is available and is under construction, the got is looking for funds for other parts of phase 1, and phase2.
 
We can’t meet SGR obligations, say policy experts
By Alphonce Shiundu | Saturday, Jun 10th 2017 at 21:47
sfw9dapmpcfovo593c3e7a75bd5.jpg

The Nairobi SGR Terminus. (Photo: Wilberforce Okwiri/Standard)
The joke doing the rounds after the launch of the multi-billion-shilling Standard Gauge Railway on June 1 was that the beach is now only four hours away from Syokimau, on the outskirts of Nairobi.

But to the economic and public policy experts who convened in Nairobi Saturday, the prediction was that tears will shortly follow once it is realised that there was no business case for the expensive loan -- issued in dollars from Chinese banks -- used to build the rail and which needs to be paid back beginning 2019.

When the dollars from China’s Export-Import Bank are converted into shillings at current exchange rates and added to what the Government pumped into the project, the total railway cost declared by the National Treasury works out to Sh425.9 billion.

If you add the interest, it inches closer to Sh500 billion.

The wet blanket on Jubilee’s victory dance over the passenger train between Mombasa and Nairobi is that when the railway was mooted, the promise was that it had the capacity to carry enough cargo to pay for itself.

ALSO READ: Man behind SGR ‘sold the idea to Jubilee after ditching Raila’

Now it is done, the loans are almost due, but the operational capacity is in question.

“The new emphasis...is that now we can go to Mombasa in four hours. It is as if that was the principal reason we spent a horrendous amount of money on the railway. The original argument was that we needed to get our cargo off the roads and onto the rail,” said Kiriro wa Ngugi, a public policy expert.

Gets tricky

The facts are that Kenya borrowed $3.23 billion. At today’s rates, that works out to Sh332.7 billion. At least $1.6 billion (Sh164.8 billion) was a concessional loan to be repaid within 20 years, after a seven-year grace period.

Kenya has been paying Sh1.6 billion ($16 million) every six months in interest since 2014 when the money was released.

When the repayments on the principal begin in 2021, the country will be paying Sh14 billion every year for the next 13 years until 2034.

The second loan is a commercial loan worth $1.63 billion (Sh167.9 billion). This is where it gets tricky for the government.

ALSO READ: Jubilee attaches little value to key sectors

The interest rate is set at six months LIBOR +360 points; which means it will be calculated based on the international bank interest rate, plus 3.6 per cent.

It is a floating rate, and it is difficult to have a definitive figure of exactly how much the Government will pay every six months when the National Treasury has to honour its debt obligations, but the estimates on this loan work out to over Sh20 billion a year.

The repayments on the principal begin in 2019 and have to be finished by 2024.

Total repayment for both loans will be at least Sh40 billion annually in 2021, according to estimates using the National Treasury’s documents.

Kenya borrowed billions in dollars, it has to repay the money in dollars. So when the shilling weakens against the dollar the country will have to pay more.

“There’s that excitement and we shall not begrudge Kenyans for being excited, but in the midst of this excitement, we are likely to lose the implication (to the economy) of sinking all that money into the Standard Gauge Railway,” said Njonjo Mue, a human rights lawyer, who hosted the meeting.

Looked at another way, the railway will have to be as profitable as Safaricom, which made a profit of Sh40 billion this year, so that every year, the country will be handing the Chinese a similar amount to repay the loan.

ALSO READ: Why SGR could spur urban planning

There is potential of frequent cash crunches and cyclical borrowing of short-term loans to repay the Chinese loans when they fall due.

Weekend Business tried to reach National Treasury Cabinet Secretary Henry Rotich to confirm how much had been paid to date, but he did not respond to phone calls or a text message by the time we went to press.

Economist David Ndii, who works as the lead policy advisor for the National Super Alliance, said there was no proof that.

We can’t meet SGR obligations, say policy experts




nomasana, sam999, NairobiWalker, hbuyosh, msemakweli, simplemind, Kimweri, Bulldog, MK254, Kafrican, Ngongo, Ab_Titchaz, mtanganyika mpya, JokaKuu, Ngongo, Askari Kanzu, Dhuks, Yule-Msee, waltham, Mzee, mombasite gabriel, Juakali1980, Boda254, mwaswast, MwendaOmo, Iconoclastes, oneflash, Kambalanick, 1 Africa, saadeque, burukenge, nyangau mkenya, Teen-Upperhill Nairobi, kadoda11, al-watan
 
real Kenyans on the ground, real experiences, real project, real stories

Wednesday last week

 
We can’t meet SGR obligations, say policy experts
By Alphonce Shiundu | Saturday, Jun 10th 2017 at 21:47
sfw9dapmpcfovo593c3e7a75bd5.jpg

The Nairobi SGR Terminus. (Photo: Wilberforce Okwiri/Standard)
The joke doing the rounds after the launch of the multi-billion-shilling Standard Gauge Railway on June 1 was that the beach is now only four hours away from Syokimau, on the outskirts of Nairobi.

But to the economic and public policy experts who convened in Nairobi Saturday, the prediction was that tears will shortly follow once it is realised that there was no business case for the expensive loan -- issued in dollars from Chinese banks -- used to build the rail and which needs to be paid back beginning 2019.

When the dollars from China’s Export-Import Bank are converted into shillings at current exchange rates and added to what the Government pumped into the project, the total railway cost declared by the National Treasury works out to Sh425.9 billion.

If you add the interest, it inches closer to Sh500 billion.

The wet blanket on Jubilee’s victory dance over the passenger train between Mombasa and Nairobi is that when the railway was mooted, the promise was that it had the capacity to carry enough cargo to pay for itself.

ALSO READ: Man behind SGR ‘sold the idea to Jubilee after ditching Raila’

Now it is done, the loans are almost due, but the operational capacity is in question.

“The new emphasis...is that now we can go to Mombasa in four hours. It is as if that was the principal reason we spent a horrendous amount of money on the railway. The original argument was that we needed to get our cargo off the roads and onto the rail,” said Kiriro wa Ngugi, a public policy expert.

Gets tricky

The facts are that Kenya borrowed $3.23 billion. At today’s rates, that works out to Sh332.7 billion. At least $1.6 billion (Sh164.8 billion) was a concessional loan to be repaid within 20 years, after a seven-year grace period.

Kenya has been paying Sh1.6 billion ($16 million) every six months in interest since 2014 when the money was released.

When the repayments on the principal begin in 2021, the country will be paying Sh14 billion every year for the next 13 years until 2034.

The second loan is a commercial loan worth $1.63 billion (Sh167.9 billion). This is where it gets tricky for the government.

ALSO READ: Jubilee attaches little value to key sectors

The interest rate is set at six months LIBOR +360 points; which means it will be calculated based on the international bank interest rate, plus 3.6 per cent.

It is a floating rate, and it is difficult to have a definitive figure of exactly how much the Government will pay every six months when the National Treasury has to honour its debt obligations, but the estimates on this loan work out to over Sh20 billion a year.

The repayments on the principal begin in 2019 and have to be finished by 2024.

Total repayment for both loans will be at least Sh40 billion annually in 2021, according to estimates using the National Treasury’s documents.

Kenya borrowed billions in dollars, it has to repay the money in dollars. So when the shilling weakens against the dollar the country will have to pay more.

“There’s that excitement and we shall not begrudge Kenyans for being excited, but in the midst of this excitement, we are likely to lose the implication (to the economy) of sinking all that money into the Standard Gauge Railway,” said Njonjo Mue, a human rights lawyer, who hosted the meeting.

Looked at another way, the railway will have to be as profitable as Safaricom, which made a profit of Sh40 billion this year, so that every year, the country will be handing the Chinese a similar amount to repay the loan.

ALSO READ: Why SGR could spur urban planning

There is potential of frequent cash crunches and cyclical borrowing of short-term loans to repay the Chinese loans when they fall due.

Weekend Business tried to reach National Treasury Cabinet Secretary Henry Rotich to confirm how much had been paid to date, but he did not respond to phone calls or a text message by the time we went to press.

Economist David Ndii, who works as the lead policy advisor for the National Super Alliance, said there was no proof that.

We can’t meet SGR obligations, say policy experts




nomasana, sam999, NairobiWalker, hbuyosh, msemakweli, simplemind, Kimweri, Bulldog, MK254, Kafrican, Ngongo, Ab_Titchaz, mtanganyika mpya, JokaKuu, Ngongo, Askari Kanzu, Dhuks, Yule-Msee, waltham, Mzee, mombasite gabriel, Juakali1980, Boda254, mwaswast, MwendaOmo, Iconoclastes, oneflash, Kambalanick, 1 Africa, saadeque, burukenge, nyangau mkenya, Teen-Upperhill Nairobi, kadoda11, al-watan
Tanzanians keep trolling, kenya was not blind signing the contract, and taking the loan. Calculations were made by experts, they knew what they were doing, besides exim bank couldn't have given a loan for a project that wasn't going to be viable so let that sink in. And good luck for an economy like Tz funding your railway.
 
Tanzanians keep trolling, kenya was not blind signing the contract, and taking the loan. Calculations were made by experts, they knew what they were doing, besides exim bank couldn't have given a loan for a project that wasn't going to be viable so let that sink in. And good luck for an economy like Tz funding your railway.
So is that all what u can answer on important raised concerns that Kenya has no enough cargo to ferry 4000 containers a day?
 
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