Dini Dini Dini Dini.....Sasa miye nimeanza kuboreka na hizi threads za dini, Je wewe?

Unafikiri ikifutwa utafaidika nini badala ya khasara? Mimi wa kwanza hamtoniona. Mambo mengi ya kufanya ya kheri na wapo wengi wanahitaji kufikishiwa habari sahihi (njema) ya Uislamu.

Kusema TUMESIKIA NA TUMETII hakutoharibika neno. HAKI IMEKUJIENI mukubali na musilimu (mujisalimishe) kwa yule aliewaumba. Yote ni kwasababu waislamu tunakuhurumieni msije juta. Na kumkubali Muumba na kunyenyekea kwake sio kuwa mmeshindwa bali mtakua mmeingia katika njia ya uongofu ambayo itakuokoeni na Adhabu za Allah na mtapata makaazi mema. TIINI

Japo sijapitia hoja nyingi sana kwa sababu hakuna chakujifunza kwenye hoja hizo

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Mpaka hapo tu nakwambia

STOP!!!

Pitia, soma halafu ndiyo ujadili na ku lobby kama kuna mantiki.

Utaanzanje kuomba topic zifungwe wakati hujazisoma?

Either that or rekebisha post yako.

Au ndiyo sababu umeshindwa kuja na mifano dhahiri ukaishia kuja na generic accussations zisizo msingi wala ushahidi?

Befair said:

Unafikiri ikifutwa utafaidika nini badala ya khasara? Mimi wa kwanza hamtoniona. Mambo mengi ya kufanya ya kheri na wapo wengi wanahitaji kufikishiwa habari sahihi (njema) ya Uislamu.

Kusema TUMESIKIA NA TUMETII hakutoharibika neno. HAKI IMEKUJIENI mukubali na musilimu (mujisalimishe) kwa yule aliewaumba. Yote ni kwasababu waislamu tunakuhurumieni msije juta. Na kumkubali Muumba na kunyenyekea kwake sio kuwa mmeshindwa bali mtakua mmeingia katika njia ya uongofu ambayo itakuokoeni na Adhabu za Allah na mtapata makaazi mema. TIINI

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Unaona Befair,
Ukweli kwamba hata hoja ya hapo juu unaichanganya ni uzihirisho wa kwamba tuna wengi wanaochanganya mambo. Na sasa hivi unajifanya unahubiri dini. Muda kitambo ukweli utajulikana. Mijadala ikizidi hapo utagundua hakuna dini wala nini, hiyo ni geresha tuu.
Lakini kama wewe ni mkweli utakubaliana na mimi kwamba mijadala hii haina msaada sana kwenye blogs/forums kama hizi. Kwa sababu ni majibizano ya watu wenye ufinyu wa ufahamu wanaotaka kuupanua zaidi ya kipimo chake - matokeo yake ni kupasuka.

Au ndiyo sababu [B said:

umeshindwa[/B] kuja na mifano dhahiri ukaishia kuja na generic accussations zisizo msingi wala ushahidi?

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SIJAKUELEWA

Jim said:

SIJAKUELEWA

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No wonder,

Ukisema mtu mwizi, fuatisha kauli hiyo kwa kuonyesha au kusema kaiba wapi, lini na vipi au toa ushahidi kwa aina moja au nyingine.No evidence no right to accuse.

Sasa wewe unasema sehemu ya dini ifungwe halafu unakuja na hadithi generic ni sawa na mtu aanze kusema JIM mwizi sana, tena kuiba kwake hakuna haya, anaiba bila kubakiza , anakomba kabisa blah blah.

Hajasema Jim kaiba wapi, kaiba nini ili tujue kama kweli Jim mwizi au wamenyang'anyana mabibi tu anamtilia fitna.

Kwa hiyo ukisema sehemu ya dini ifutwe toa sababu halafu uzi substantiate na mifano.No evidence no right to speak.

hata hao mafisadi huwa hatuwasemi tu bila ya kuwa na data.

Inawezekana uko right lakini tatizo siyo sehemy ya dini bali ni watu.Ndugu yangu muislamu hapo juu ameeleza vizuri jinsi gani anavyotaka kuwajulisha watu kuhusu uislamu na pengine wengi tunaweza kufaidika. Usitupe mwana na maji ya kuoga.Usiweke mtego wa panya utakaonasa waliotakiwa na wasiotakiwa.Kama kuna posts zinazokukera zilete hapa zijadiliwe, lakini kufunga sehemu nzima hakusaidii kitu.

Ni culture ya objectivity tu hapa JF ili tusiwe na witchhunts.

Jim said:

Imani za kidini ni zaidi ya vituko vinavyojadiliwa hapa. Japo sijapitia hoja nyingi sana kwa sababu hakuna chakujifunza kwenye hoja hizo, chache nilizopitia hapa hazina uhusiano na kile tunachojaribu kujadili. Hoja nyingi zinajaribu kujadili au kupata majibu ya maswali ya dini za kiislamu na kikristo. Lakini watoa hoja na wajibu maswali wanaandika vituko ambavyo kwa kweli vinashusha hadhi ya Forum, nia ya mijadala na hata kukashifu ukweli wa imani zenyewe. Sidhani kuna haja ya kuvumilia jambo lolote linalopotosha ukweli. Ni hatari kwetu. Wengi wetu tunataka kutumia ubabaishaji wa ufahamu wa juu juu kujaribu kuonyesha kwamba tuna ufahamu mkubwa sana wa maswala ya imani. Na hivyo kubahatisha kutoa hoja au kukashifu dini za wengine bila sababu
Ningeomba kuwakilisha ombi la kufuta mijadala hii ya dini. Ili kama kuna wale walio na haja ya kujua ukweli kuhusiana na maswala ya imani wajifunze kwa wazazi, makanisani, misikitini, vyuoni na kwingineko. Wale walio na imani wabaki na imani zao bila kujisikia kukashifiwa. Kwa kweli sioni uwezekano mkubwa sana wa mtu kumjua Mungu kupitia JF

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moja kati ya silaha inayotegemewa katika debate ni uvumilivu....iwe debate ya siasa,michezo,uchumi,imani ..n.k..
nakubaliana na wewe kwamba katika ukumbi huu wa imani na dini,kuna watu kwa maksudi mazima wanavuka mipaka ya lugha na kuamua kupakoroga...lakini pia bado sidhani kama ni solution kuufunga huu ukumbi,,kwani wapo wawili watatu ambao wanatuelimisha na tunashkuru kwamba wengi wetu tumesoma mengi kupitia ukumbi huu kwa mtindo wa kuchuja..(kuchukua ya wale wenye lengo la kutuelimisha na kuacha yale yenye lengo la kuharibu)...mimi binafsi nakiri kwamba nimeelimika mengi kupitia sehemu hii ya dini/imani ,,ambayo kabla ya kujiunga hapa nilikuwa siyajui...ushauri wangu ni kwamba ungewaomba moderators wakawa more active kwa wale wanaoutumia ukumbi huu vibaya kulikoni kutaka ufungwe..

wabillahi tawfiq

Pundit said:

No wonder,


Inawezekana uko right lakini tatizo siyo sehemy ya dini bali ni watu.Ndugu yangu muislamu hapo juu ameeleza vizuri jinsi gani anavyotaka kuwajulisha watu kuhusu uislamu na pengine wengi tunaweza kufaidika. Usitupe mwana na maji ya kuoga.Usiweke mtego wa panya utakaonasa waliotakiwa na wasiotakiwa.Kama kuna posts zinazokukera zilete hapa zijadiliwe, lakini kufunga sehemu nzima hakusaidii kitu.

Ni culture ya objectivity tu hapa JF ili tusiwe na witchhunts.

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Yah, tatizo sio sehemu ya dini ni watu. Ndio maana nawasiliana na watu, Bwana Pundit. Una tumia nguvu sana kuulizia vielelezo as if kuna mapungufu ya vielelezo. Sikuwa na haja ya kutumia muda mwingi sana kwenye vielelezo kwa sababu ni dhahiri kwa kusoma japo hoja moja ya sehemu hii jinsi watu wanavyochanganya mambo. Na kama wewe ni sehemu ya kundi hilo basi najua utakuja na nguvu sana ya kupinga.
Si kweli kwamba huyo mtu ana nia ya kumsaidia mtu. Kama ukisoma mood anayotumia ku-post hoja zake inahitaji kuwa na uwezo mdogo sana wa akili kushindwa kujua kwamba yeye yuko kwenye mashindano makali sana.

abadan said:

lakini pia bado sidhani kama ni solution kuufunga huu ukumbi,,kwani wapo wawili watatu ambao wanatuelimisha na tunashkuru kwamba wengi wetu tumesoma mengi kupitia ukumbi huu kwa mtindo wa kuchuja..(kuchukua ya wale wenye lengo la kutuelimisha na kuacha yale yenye lengo la kuharibu)...mimi binafsi nakiri kwamba nimeelimika mengi kupitia sehemu hii ya dini/imani ,,ambayo kabla ya kujiunga hapa nilikuwa siyajui...ushauri wangu ni kwamba ungewaomba moderators wakawa more active kwa wale wanaoutumia ukumbi huu vibaya kulikoni kutaka ufungwe..

wabillahi tawfiq

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Hapa hamna elimu ya dini. Kwa hiyo si kweli kwamba kuna watakaoelimika. Utapata mawazo ya watu wanavyoziona dini (za wengine) lakini sidhani kuna elimu katika posts zinazotolewa.

One person's meat is anothers poison.

Kwa hiyo inawezekana wewe unachoona kiko over the top, mwingine ataona fair debate.

Ndiyo maana nikaomba uje na mifano specific ili tuijadili, kama mtu kakosea ajirudi na iwe funzo kwa wengine, kama hataki afungiwe.That is kama una case.

Be specific please.

Jim said:

Hapa hamna elimu ya dini. Kwa hiyo si kweli kwamba kuna watakaoelimika. Utapata mawazo ya watu wanavyoziona dini (za wengine) lakini sidhani kuna elimu katika posts zinazotolewa.

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Jim,

Ni vizuri kusema kwa niaba yako mwenyewe.Unless you provide specifics this is an opinion and not a fact.

Opinions are always welcome, but facts are sacred.Do not twist the two.

Jim said:

Hapa hamna elimu ya dini. Kwa hiyo si kweli kwamba kuna watakaoelimika. Utapata mawazo ya watu wanavyoziona dini (za wengine) lakini sidhani kuna elimu katika posts zinazotolewa.

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wewe unasema hujaelimika kupitia ukumbi huu,,i respect that,,,,lakini jaribu kurespect na view yangu ninapokuambia kwamba tayari nimeelimika mengi...be fair

Pundit said:

One person's meat is anothers poison.

Kwa hiyo inawezekana wewe unachoona kiko over the top, mwingine ataona fair debate.

Ndiyo maana nikaomba uje na mifano specific ili tuijadili, kama mtu kakosea ajirudi na iwe funzo kwa wengine, kama hataki afungiwe.That is kama una case.

Be specific please.

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Hey Pundit,

I have to let you get away with this. All along my intent is to avoid getting into suh debates. There tons and tons of evidence in this (I wonder why you can't get this) section of the forum. Trying to dig into them will get me where I don't wanna go and will place me right on the same position of Befair, and others. The thing is, there are a lot of misunderstood and misrepresented beliefes here. To start critiquing one after the other will stimulate what I'm trying to suppress.
But if I can cite one thing in general will be this:
I've discovered that most muslims are trying to discuss the Holy Bible (which they don' read and so they don' understand it) and most Christians are trying to do the same with the Holy Quaran (which they don' read and so they don' understand). I feel as that is opposite to a conventional wisdom of any duo meeting for a good course.

Let me set some things straight here. By reading I don't mean to go and peruse what you can throw at JF. I don't mean seeking what can support your ideas. I mean diligently and seriously searching God through his word (be it the Bible or the Quaran) with faith and understanding. Chrstians do it through the Bible and Muslims do it through the Quaran. Therefore to any logical person's expectation, one would expect to get help from each religion based on the appropriate book of reference. And if one has gotten a supporting evidence from the other reliogions' books, then repsectifully and humbly one can cite it.

Once in a while I get some time like today and decide to read this section. After a number of trials I have concluded that, it is actually not help that is sought. It's a struggle of who knows what better in what religion. For that I say, I wish you the best of luck.

abadan said:

wewe unasema hujaelimika kupitia ukumbi huu,,i respect that,,,,lakini jaribu kurespect na view yangu ninapokuambia kwamba tayari nimeelimika mengi...be fair

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Unadhani umeelika. Utakapoelimika utakubaliana na mimi. Na hiyo haionyeshi kwamba siheshimu views zako. Nisingeziheshimu nisingezijibu.

Jim said:

Unadhani umeelika. Utakapoelimika utakubaliana na mimi. Na hiyo haionyeshi kwamba siheshimu views zako. Nisingeziheshimu nisingezijibu.

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kuelimika kuko namna nyingi...mfano ..leo hii basi nishaelimika kwamba unalotaka wewe basi lazima liwe....kwahiyo hili suali sijui kwanini umelileta hapa lijadiliwe ..kwani naona tayari unalazimisha msimamo wako...

abadan said:

kuelimika kuko namna nyingi...mfano ..leo hii basi nishaelimika kwamba unalotaka wewe basi lazima liwe....kwahiyo hili suali sijui kwanini umelileta hapa lijadiliwe ..kwani naona tayari unalazimisha msimamo wako...

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Unahitaji pia kuelewa maana ya kuelimika. Anyway that's besides the point.

Jim said:

Hey Pundit,

I have to let you get away with this. All along my intent is to avoid getting into suh debates. There tons and tons of evidence in this (I wonder why you can't get this) section of the forum. Trying to dig into them will get me where I don't wanna go and will place me right on the same position of Befair, and others. The thing is, there are a lot of misunderstood and misrepresented beliefes here. To start critiquing one after the other will stimulate what I'm trying to suppress.
But if I can cite one thing in general will be this:
I've discovered that most muslims are trying to discuss the Holy Bible (which they don' read and so they don' understand it) and most Christians are trying to do the same with the Holy Quaran (which they don' read and so they don' understand). I feel as that is opposite to a conventional wisdom of any duo meeting for a good course.

Once in a while I get some time like today and decide to read this section. After a number of trials I have concluded that, it is actually not help that is sought. It's a struggle of who knows what better in what religion. For that I say, I wish you the best of luck.

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Jim,

If there are tons and tons then it should be all the more easier for you to pick a few examples, shouldn't it?

I find your above quoted post unqualified, presumptious, oppressive, unsubstantiated and after all the cries to give evidence even obnoxious.

No evidence no right to accuse.

Naomba usome sehemu ya mwisho ya post yangu kwenye swali mtoto na dini ya wazazi.

Jim said:

Unahitaji pia kuelewa maana ya kuelimika. Anyway that's besides the point.

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hii statement inatuhusu mie na wewe ,,i think sote wawili tunahitaji hiyo kitu..

Pole ndugu yangu Steve D !
Kama hii part ya dini itafungwa wewe ndiye utakaye pata
hasara kwani ukiujua ukweli utakufurahisha na sio
kukuchukiza ! Kwani unachokipenda wewe , Mimi siwezi
kukipenda na Kinachokuchukiza wewe, Mimi naweza
kipenda ! Sasa midhani tuendelee kuelimishana kwa
vigezo vya msingi ili wasomaji wa Jf waelewe hasa
ukweli ni dini gani ya kweli na aliyoiridhia MUUMBA
Mbingu na Ardhi ili hata Yesu akija naye aikute kuwa
Dini ni sehemu za mada katika JF.
Thankin U !

isifungwe maana inawaelimisha waislam