East African Federation (EAF) public Views

East African Federation (EAF) public Views

Unregistered said:
Hapa ninakubaliana na wewe. Mimi ni mkenya halisi na kwa kuchangia mjadala huu, ningependa kuwasihi wananchi wote, wawe wakenya au watanzania: acheni lugha ya matusi. Tunajidharau wafrika mno na lingekuwa jambo lizuri zaidi ikiwa tungekuwa wastaarabu wote, na kama tuataikataa hii jumuia basi tufanye hivyo kwa njia ya kiutu.
La pili, dunia inazidi kuwa ndogo na sera mpya zimeingia humu duniani kama soko huria na kadhalika na hivyo basi ingekuwa bora kama tungeweza kuwa na mtazamo wa kimataifa, nje ya Africa Mashariki.
La mwisho, kwa kweli sitaunga hiyo EAF ikiwa kura ya maoni itapigwa. Sababu zangu singependa kuzizungumzia kupitia kwa njia hii ya huu mtandao. Kwani nikifanya hivyo nitasikia hukumu ya kwamba ninafaidisha ulimwengu.

Ahsanteni na mola awabariki.

Mimi wenu,

Mkenya halisi.

--------------------------------
Utakuwa huna sababu za maana vinginevyo ungezitoa. WaTz hatuna chuki kabisa na wakenya. Kwa nini wakenya na hatusemi Waganda? Tunachoeleza ni facts, japo si rahisi kwa binadamu kupokea ukweli juu yake, hasa kama haupendezi.

Kumbuka tunajaribu kuangalia tulikoangukia 1977. hatutaki kukuimbilia bila kufikiri ati kwa sababu ya soko huria. Watu waliojifanya waerevu(mpaka leo) ndio waliotutia hasara Tz na haohao ni wanataka faida kama hiyo tena. WaTz tuiteni majina yote ya dharau eg, waliolala, wenye upeo mdogo nk lakini Wakenya tunawaona tatizo katika ustawi wa Federation.Msitulaumu Watz ila chukueni jukumu la kufanya mahusiano mazuri na ndugu zenu.
 
Unregistered said:
Exactly the point Tzpride!
A fake company called Richmond recently sold such engines to Tanzanias power authority claiming they were equipment for energy...the same way a fake Anglo company was getting contracts in Kenya.
Guess what...the Anglo thieves have returned all the money because of the noise Kenyans made but you don’t even know about Richmond because your media is not free to write anything or to 'abuse' your leaders if they like as Kenya's media is plus you still have power blackouts.
-------------------------
Get away with your filthy mind. RDC issue is not like Ango Leasing. We have turbines already in the country, one(20MW) is being installed at Ubungo Power plant.
You are trying alot to match Kenyan corruption to Tz....no chance you are too far.
 
My opinion as far as the East Africa Federation is Concern is, both countries have to sort out their internal problems that emanating from their political, economical and socio environments before embarking on this very big, very sensitive and ambiguous kind of a so called federation. For example in Kenya and Uganda they have an endless ethnic group’s war, tribalism, and regionalism. Tanzania is trying to looking ways of emancipate themselves from an infant economy. Although we have very common things to share there is no point to say we are sharing these things the same way.

What are we going to do with the LRA issues which in Tanzania we are just hearing from the radios and read from Magazine? What can we do with Narc Coalition and other tribal parties surrounded Kenya’s politics. It is true that Kenyan economy is better than us but is better to eat Ugali with Kisanvu oilless peacefully rather than eating buffet with virungu every day, night with our beloved young kinds taken to war. Tanzania is still struggling in solving the so called Mpasuko wa kisiasa in Zanzibar and Viraga vya Muungano.

How can we get into this while pulling from our back all these problems? How can we embark on the large federation while the small one we have in hand is still a problem to us. We better not.
 
"...Mwisho muungano ni jambo la wanaanchi kuamua kupiga kura ya maoni na sio makelele bila ya hoja. Uzalendo duni hauta tupeleka popote ni lazma tuangalia kila jambo kwa maakini. Kwani kikulacho hakipo kenya, uganda,rwanda, burundi au kwengineko bali ki ubungo!..."

Mwenye mawazo kama haya kwenye quotation ni lazima awe ni dikteta. Anachotaka yeye ni watu wapige kura bila kuwepo na mjadala wa aina yoyote ile. Huyu hayuko katika dunia hii. Kutoa mawazo kwa njia ya tovuti au magazeti au mjadala wa aina yoyote kwake ni kero. Ni mawazo ya kijinga. Kutoa mawazo eti ni kupiga kelele. Yaani yeye mjadala wowote ule unaofanyika kabla ya kura ni batili. Yaani haelewi hata maana ya kura za maoni ambazo baadhi ya vyombo vya habari na taasisi kadhaa duniani huendesha kabla ya matukio muhimu kama ya uchaguzi na kadhalika. Ninavyofahamu mimi mjadala unaoendelea katika tovuti hii is some sort of public opinion. Ndiyo maana kwenye tovuti hii wakati natoa mawazo haya asilimia 57 ya waliopiga kura miongoni mwa watu karibu 600 hivi wamekataa ic political federation ya East Africa.

Ni kweli uzalendo duni hautatupeleka kokote. Lakini ubwege, kukosa uzalendo, ujinga, unafiki, usaliti na udikteta hauwezi pia kutufikisha popote pale. Suala la kikulacho ni kweli kinaweza kuwa katika jamii yetu. Na miongoni mwa vikulacho hao ni yule anayepinga wenzake wasitoe mawazo. Kikulacho pia ni yule anayedhani mawazo yake ndiyo sahihi na ya wengine ni ya hovyo. Mtu wa aina hii ni mpumbavu na wala siyo mjinga kwani ipo tofauti kubwa kati ya mpumbavu na mjinga.

Hata wakati wa biashara ya utumwa kulikuwepo na waafrika wenzetu ambao walikuwa tayari kuwauza wenzao kwa wazungu au waarabu. Hao pia walikuwa vi-kulacho, wakiwemo baadhi ya machifu, wafanyabiashara na kadhalika.

Watu waliobuni tovuti hii kwa hakika wana mwamko mkubwa na wamefanya jambo kubwa na la maana kweli kwa nchi yetu. Baadhi yetu tumepata njia ya kutoa mawazo yetu bila woga. Hii inawashangaza watu waliokuwa wakidhani kuwa watanzania ni mabwege. Ukimya wetu uliwafanya watu wengine wakiwemo baadhi ( nasema baadhi na siyo wote) ya wakenya wadhani na wawe na fikra kuwa wanaweza kufanya wanavyotaka nchini Tanzania. Hapana. Tanzania is awake. Na nina uhakika kuwa kura ya maoni ikipigwa hapa Tanzania zaidi ya asilimia 90 ya watanzania watakataa political federation ya Afrika Mashariki. Huu ndio ukweli. Kama wengine hawautaki ukweli huu shauri yao. Na hata wale wanaosema kwa hasira kuwa eti kwa watanzania kukataa political federation tunaonyesha umbumbumbu wetu, shauri yao pia kwani tunafahamu pia kuwa hizo ni hasira tu. Watanzania tulio wengi hatutaki kuona yale yanayotokea Kenya(kuhusu ubinafsi uliokithiri na ukabila) ukipenyezwa Tanzania. Hatutaki kuona mapigano ya kisilaha ya kaskazini mwa Uganda na mapambano ya wizi wa raslimali huko Kongo yakitokea Tanzania. To hell with federation.

Tutapiga hatua ya maendeleo bila hiyo political federation. Itachukua muda lakini ni lazima tutapiga hatua kubwa. Tanzania ya 1977 ni tofauti na ya sasa. Wakati ule uchumi wetu ulikuwa nyuma. Lakini Kenya ya 1977 siyo ya sasa. It is "going down" while we are "going UP". Tanzania ya sasa inachangamka. We have the resources. Tunahitaji mambo machache mno to be an economic giant in this part of Africa. We have to build our capacity- human resource etc. Na hiki ndicho tunachofanya. Tuinahitaji good leadership inayoona mbali.

Na nadhani hivi sasa angalau tumeipata leadership hiyo. Tunahitaji mitaji itakayochochea zaidi maendeleo yetu na kwa kasi zaidi. Hilo ndilo tunalojaribu kufanya. Pole pole tutafika huko waliko wenzetu kwa maana nchi zilizoendelea kikweli kweli na siyo nchi zile jirani yetu wanaodhani kuwa wameendelea huku bado wakiwa wanaweka vinyesi kwenye mifuko ya rambo na kutucheka eti watanzania ni wavivu na maskini.
 
Loota L. Mungaya said:
My opinion as far as the East Africa Federation is Concern is, both countries have to sort out their internal problems that emanating from their political, economical and socio environments before embarking on this very big, very sensitive and ambiguous kind of a so called federation. For example in Kenya and Uganda they have an endless ethnic group’s war, tribalism, and regionalism....What can we do with Narc Coalition and other tribal parties surrounded Kenya’s politics.
Hivi ulisoma haya?
Nyang'au No.2 said:
1. Its 2006 and pple who are accusing Kenya and others of tribalism are basing their argument on who is Nilote and who is Bantu...more hypocrisy!
It might not even be xenophobia because they have no problems with South africans (also foreigners) taking over their industries

2. They are also arguing that Kenyans and Ugandans have conflicts and violence etc etc....once again the hypocrisy shows because if they don’t hesitate to ask these countries to clean up, they turn a blind eye to crime and violence levels in RSA.

3. The other argument is that Kenyans should first kick out the white pple who own land in Kenya...(more xenophobia!) first before any Fed.
The hypocrisy in this one comes in that they have no problems joining SADC which is practically run by RSA whose economy we all know is still in the hands of white South Africans.
So much so that Desmond Tutu was complaining the other day that till today the wealth has not yet flown into the blacks hands.
For a pple who keep reminding us that they fought for freedom and helped others fight for it doing business with the white run RSA economy is the height of of Hypocrisy and contradiction.

These three arguments simply do not hold any water!
So you want to complain about tribalism in other EAC but ignore Racism in RSA, Namibia etc etc?....this is what is called hypocrisy!
 
Unregistered said:
"...Mwisho muungano ni jambo la wanaanchi kuamua kupiga kura ya maoni na sio makelele bila ya hoja. Uzalendo duni hauta tupeleka popote ni lazma tuangalia kila jambo kwa maakini. Kwani kikulacho hakipo kenya, uganda,rwanda, burundi au kwengineko bali ki ubungo!..."

Mwenye mawazo kama haya kwenye quotation ni lazima awe ni dikteta. Anachotaka yeye ni watu wapige kura bila kuwepo na mjadala wa aina yoyote ile. Huyu hayuko katika dunia hii. Kutoa mawazo kwa njia ya tovuti au magazeti au mjadala wa aina yoyote kwake ni kero. Ni mawazo ya kijinga. Kutoa mawazo eti ni kupiga kelele. Yaani yeye mjadala wowote ule unaofanyika kabla ya kura ni batili. Yaani haelewi hata maana ya kura za maoni ambazo baadhi ya vyombo vya habari na taasisi kadhaa duniani huendesha kabla ya matukio muhimu kama ya uchaguzi na kadhalika. Ninavyofahamu mimi mjadala unaoendelea katika tovuti hii is some sort of public opinion. Ndiyo maana kwenye tovuti hii wakati natoa mawazo haya asilimia 57 ya waliopiga kura miongoni mwa watu karibu 600 hivi wamekataa ic political federation ya East Africa.

Ni kweli uzalendo duni hautatupeleka kokote. Lakini ubwege, kukosa uzalendo, ujinga, unafiki, usaliti na udikteta hauwezi pia kutufikisha popote pale. Suala la kikulacho ni kweli kinaweza kuwa katika jamii yetu. Na miongoni mwa vikulacho hao ni yule anayepinga wenzake wasitoe mawazo. Kikulacho pia ni yule anayedhani mawazo yake ndiyo sahihi na ya wengine ni ya hovyo. Mtu wa aina hii ni mpumbavu na wala siyo mjinga kwani ipo tofauti kubwa kati ya mpumbavu na mjinga.

Hata wakati wa biashara ya utumwa kulikuwepo na waafrika wenzetu ambao walikuwa tayari kuwauza wenzao kwa wazungu au waarabu. Hao pia walikuwa vi-kulacho, wakiwemo baadhi ya machifu, wafanyabiashara na kadhalika.

Watu waliobuni tovuti hii kwa hakika wana mwamko mkubwa na wamefanya jambo kubwa na la maana kweli kwa nchi yetu. Baadhi yetu tumepata njia ya kutoa mawazo yetu bila woga. Hii inawashangaza watu waliokuwa wakidhani kuwa watanzania ni mabwege. Ukimya wetu uliwafanya watu wengine wakiwemo baadhi ( nasema baadhi na siyo wote) ya wakenya wadhani na wawe na fikra kuwa wanaweza kufanya wanavyotaka nchini Tanzania. Hapana. Tanzania is awake. Na nina uhakika kuwa kura ya maoni ikipigwa hapa Tanzania zaidi ya asilimia 90 ya watanzania watakataa political federation ya Afrika Mashariki. Huu ndio ukweli. Kama wengine hawautaki ukweli huu shauri yao. Na hata wale wanaosema kwa hasira kuwa eti kwa watanzania kukataa political federation tunaonyesha umbumbumbu wetu, shauri yao pia kwani tunafahamu pia kuwa hizo ni hasira tu. Watanzania tulio wengi hatutaki kuona yale yanayotokea Kenya(kuhusu ubinafsi uliokithiri na ukabila) ukipenyezwa Tanzania. Hatutaki kuona mapigano ya kisilaha ya kaskazini mwa Uganda na mapambano ya wizi wa raslimali huko Kongo yakitokea Tanzania. To hell with federation. Tutapiga hatua ya maendeleo bila hiyo political federation. Itachukua muda lakini ni lazima tutapiga hatua kubwa. Tanzania ya 1977 ni tofauti na ya sasa. Wakati ule uchumi wetu ulikuwa nyuma. Lakini Kenya ya 1977 siyo ya sasa. It is "going down" while we are "going UP". Tanzania ya sasa inachangamka. We have the resources. Tunahitaji mambo machache mno to be an economic giant in this part of Africa. We have to build our capacity- human resource etc. Na hiki ndicho tunachofanya. Tuinahitaji good leadership inayoona mbali. Na nadhani hivi sasa angalau tumeipata leadership hiyo. Tunahitaji mitaji itakayochochea zaidi maendeleo yetu na kwa kasi zaidi. Hilo ndilo tunalojaribu kufanya. Pole pole tutafika huko waliko wenzetu kwa maana nchi zilizoendelea kikweli kweli na siyo nchi zile jirani yetu wanaodhani kuwa wameendelea huku bado wakiwa wanaweka vinyesi kwenye mifuko ya rambo na kutucheka eti watanzania ni wavivu na maskini.
Wacha matusi mengi weee!!!!!!!!!! Hivi huna adabu na heshima?
 
This is wonderful! Tz is slowly coming to the realisation that EA and in particular Kenya is the the only true partner they have got.I also note with pleasure that through this forum Tz has come to know that in this changing world you cannot go it alone.They have come to appriciate the fact that none of our EA nations is perfect a fact well known to many Kenyas.Taking about SArians having crude names for us (in the spirit of EA) let them sort out their economic apartheid mess first before they can seek someone they can sit on and oppre ss. Trueth be told the Future of SA is most likely White even politically.Watch this space especilly in 2010 world cup.Now back home in EAC some issues need to be put down clearly here.You TZnians has some of the most weird views on Kenyans never seen or heard from any part of the world.

To start with, in the past fiscal year TZ Experienced $700m earnigs in trade in EA alone just because of the renewed efforts for the EAC.At the same time Kenya had hto forgoe $111M just for u guys(Anything for u yani) and contineu to call ur involvement MBUZI WA SHUGHULI(Sijui niseme).As if thats nothing the Germans want to set up a KShs360 billion facility to house the EAC in Arusha(ur country) and u go on to call that MBUZI WA SHUGHULI.I MEAN LOOK AT THE BROADER PICTURE.

YOU share the same views about Kenya with Bush.Who says Kenya is politically instable(Where he thinks Kenya is in Dafur or even Nairobi is Somalia),Kenya is corrupt(of course ours is in the open unlike UR case hidden bellow the carpet).Kwani are u planning a regime change in Kenya.Together with the suveillance u have on Kenya going to an extent of quating some slum pple solving their slum problems in the.Was this the regime change that Mwalimu wanted on Mzee's government.Some of even talking about militury issues.Please stop poking your nouse in matters that do not corncern u it might get hurt.

Idont think Tz has that much of land for someone to came and exploit.Besides few Kenyans if any would bother about land that is agricaturaly unproductive.What is that u sell to the world coffee, tea tobbacco, maize, wheat, rice.

What TZ actually seeks to have b4 they can join EAC is someone to sit on and really exploit something that they have not found in Kenya.I mean look how Tanganyika beat up the Zanzibaris during the elections.Their atititude & treatment to the Rwandans.

Well with or without EAC Kenya still leaves on.We are not Desparate for an EAC.IN fact it is TZ which is supposed to be.Look how the SA is dictating to u n SADC and u Know u cant be alone.Thats way east Africans are caming up with this wonderful idea of EAC and even EAF.SA has plans for guys down sourth yet their partners dont question their economic apartheid they want to dissolve thru SADC.COMESA & EAC IS YOUR ONLY HOME. SOUTH OR WEST, EAST IS UR ONLY HOME(U WIL COME TO REALIZE THAT VERY SOON)dON'T BE LATE U KNOW.Hope as the debate goes on we will come to find how much compatible we can be as EAC leave alone EAF and face the rest of the world together.
 
"A fake company called Richmond recently sold such engines to Tanzanias power authority claiming they were equipment for energy...the same way a fake Anglo company was getting contracts in Kenya.

Guess what...the Anglo thieves have returned all the money because of the noise Kenyans made but you dont even know about Richmond because your media is not free to write anything or to 'abuse' your leaders if they like as Kenya's media is plus you still have power blackouts."

Do you agree with what this man is saying? It is ridiculous!

-------------------------
 
Unregistered said:
By nature and off course historically, majority of Tanzanians are Bantus while the Kenyans are Nilotics. SADC is much more Bantu and Kenya and the anticipated EA Fed. is much more of a Nilotic nature. Kenya belongs to southern Sudan, Somalia, Uganda and so on.
Another argument that does not hold any water.
Forgetting for now that separating pple this way is outright tribalism (eti nani alisema tzanians are not tribalistic?) Kenya is also majority Bantu! ~ 65% to be precise.
Kenya's nilotes are said to make up most of our Professors while Kenya's bantus are said to be economically savy...these are just stereotypes because each of these groups is running the said sectors in their own regions very well.
So what has having a majority Bantu given you? What do you have to show for having a majority of Bantu's? A superb economy? A great education system?
Not a valid argument because clearly being born bantu or nilote has nothing to do with it!

Western Bantu :
* Luyia
* Gusii
* Kuria

Central Bantu
* Akamba
* Kikuyu
* Embu
* Meru
* Mbere
* Tharaka

Coastal (Eastern) Bantu
* Swahili
* Mijikenda
* Segeju
* Pokomo
* Taita
* Taveta

Another argument based on lies...if you are going to sell tribalistic propaganda (who said Tz are not tribalistic again?) you could at least cross-check these facts on google before displaying ignorance.
 
70% of Ugandans are Bantu-speakers, the rest also speak Swahili = Bantu language
80% of Rwandans are Bantu-speakers, the rest also Kinyarwanda and Swahili = Bantu languages
85% of Burundi are Bantu-speakers, the rest also Kirundi and Swahili = Bantu languages

What has being bantu given anybody?
 
Unregistered said:
70% of Ugandans are Bantu-speakers, the rest also speak Swahili = Bantu language
80% of Rwandans are Bantu-speakers, the rest also Kinyarwanda and Swahili = Bantu languages
85% of Burundi are Bantu-speakers, the rest also Kirundi and Swahili = Bantu languages

What has being bantu given anybody?

Hallo Kenyans friends,

I am afraid you are missing the point on the issue of the social and cultural background of the people of Tanzania and Kenya. Talking about Bantu and Nilotics in this issue is not tribalism but presentetion of socio-cultural facts! What you are projecting here as tribalism is non existince. If I try to define tribalism, I might end up in more confusion! Let me describe Tribalism for you, Tribalism is what is practised between the Luos vis-a-vis the Kikuyus in in your country in all facets of life, be it employment opportunities, politcal voting, religious fellowships etc!
 
Unregistered said:
Hallo Kenyans friends,
I am afraid you are missing the point on the issue of the social and cultural background of the people of Tanzania and Kenya. Talking about Bantu and Nilotics in this issue is not tribalism but presentetion of socio-cultural facts! What you are projecting here as tribalism is non existince. If I try to define tribalism, I might end up in more confusion! Let me describe Tribalism for you, Tribalism is what is practised between the Luos vis-a-vis the Kikuyus in in your country in all facets of life, be it employment opportunities, politcal voting, religious fellowships etc!
Whats the difference between the so called
Luo (Nilote) vs Kikuyus(Bantus)
and your openly discrimination of

Southern africa bantu (SADC) vs Nothern africa nilote (EAF)?
 
Wewe uliochangia kwenye mtandao huu unonekana una ukomavu awa fikira na maswala ya kisiasa. Hujatumia matusi yoyote. Watu wengi sana hutumia lugha chafu - kwanini? Eti wao ni wa-TZ na hawataki muungano. Wakenya nao warusha matusi yao wakisoma yale yalioandikwa. Mie mkenya - napendelea kuwe na jumuiya. Kila nchi ya Africa mashariki in shida zake - sio sawa kuwe na vikwazo- k.m Rwanda na Burundi ziwe na amani ndipo zikaribishwe muungano. Shida yetu waafrika ni kuwa - tunatosheka na chochote tunacho. Tunajidharau wenyewe kwa wenyewe.

Swala la muungano litatatuliwa kwa kupiga kura. Ni wajibu wa kila mtu kutoa maoni yao kwa kura. Iwapo kutakuwa na union, nchi zote zitaandika katiba mpya. Museveni hatakuwa rais, sio Kibaki wala Kikwete, sio mnyarwanda au mrundi - rais atachaguliwa na wananchi. Wananchi wakiamuwa hawa niliotaja hapo juu wawe viongozi- itakuwa ni juu yao.

Mimi ni mlowezi nchi nyingine - (ulaya). Nitukane ukipenda. Ladba watu wengi tz hawataki kujiunga na KY na UG - hivyo ni sawa. Piga kura yako. Wakenya wasemekana kuwa wezi, wakabila, walowezi, n.k. Ndugu mmoja akasema watajiunga na nchi za kusi. Ati Museveni ni amekuwa rais kwa mda mrefu sana. Alizidi kusema RW na BD watatue shida zao kwanza kabla wakaribishwe muungano.

Ukweli ni kwamba, nchi za kusini zina shida zao. Oo- at M7 ni rais wa maaisha? Utasemaje nikikwambia huko kuna mbabe asiyejali mtu yeyote? Nani atakubali kukaa kikao kimoja na Mugabe? Pole san kufikiria kwamba Kenya haina wabantu - inakubidi urudi shuleni maktabani. Jua kwamba hutaongea kiswahili huko kusi. South Africa inakabiliwa na shida nyingi sana - ukimwi, umaskini, uadui kati yaweusi/weupe - niambie ikiwa watakulaki wewe wakiwa katika hali hii. Mwalimu alipigania ukombozi wa SA - unajua alipigana na nani?

Ndugu zangu UG, KY, RW au BD haitatawala TZ. Ule anatawala (na bado atatawala TZ) ni muhindi. Ukiwa na macho utaona huu ni ukweli. Tena unasahau kwamba Mchina naye anaingia polepole. Sijagusia mkoloni bado; yeye hakuwahi toka. Sii unatumia kompyuta, usisahau una simu (mobile). Ba mabenki je? Excuse me! Ulisema wenzetu wa kusi - sawa. Usisahau pia kwamba- ukiongea kusi (SA), humaanishi mweusi. Wakumbuka adui wa Mandela, na Nyerere? Ninapata kichefuchefu ukitaja SA - wale maadui uliotaja, ni mabeberu, machukizi wasioaminika, vinyonga walioua ndugu weusi hapo awali. Eti sisi wakenya wabaya?

Nifurahi kusoma maoni ya muheshimiwa Zito Kabwe, mbunge wa Kigoma kaskazini - keep it up sir, EAC needs leaders like you.
 
Hapo juu nilimaanisha wale washirika wenu wa kusi sio weusi. Kampuni nyingi, benki n.k yanamilikiwa na watu weupe. Watu weusi ni maskini sana sana - maisha yao ni ya kubaatisha jameni. Ni sawa wewe ukisema kwamba hakuna similarities wa TZ na watu wa KY na UG.

Niambie kama kuna usawa kati ya wazungu wa kusi na wa-TZ. Hao ndio wana pesa (si weusi), kampuni ni zao, hawaongei kiswahili - oh, i see, TZ will be a 'close and reliable' partner of SA. People of TZ are at liberty to choose what fits them - thanks to democracy.
 
KAMPALA said:
don't blame the poor old tanzanians,they feel threatened economically by Kenyans.It is understandable ,they can't argue rationally, so far all they have been arguing about is how proud and arrogant kenyans are, no empirical or technical evidence against EAC, it is obvious these brothers suffer from serious bout of low self esteem,hapless folks have been overtaken by Ugandans who were ten times poorer than Tanzanians in 1986 but are doing better than Tanzanians now.Tanzanians you are east africa WEAKEST LINK.
MNAJIFANYA NG'OMBE MKAMULIWE NA NANI?[/QUOTE


Seems you don`t understand how this world evolves and rotates huh !!!Is it from east to west,as you have been taught ? Think again,utajiona mpumbavu kupindukia.Just a hint,how this world`s economy is being run,read this :

http://www.monitor.co.ug/inspol/inspol10258.php

TEDDY SEEZI CHEEYE
• Big lessons from Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
When IMF team visited Uganda for the first time shortly after NRM had just taken over power in 1986, and found that Uganda did not have economic figures it needed as a pre-requisite for lending, a friendly leader of the IMF team, a Kenyan, advised his Ugandan brothers to cook up some nice economic figures, because there was no way IMF could lend Uganda money without figures. The Ugandan team retreated in the kitchen and did a wonderful statistical spicing. Economic growth rate was put at a pleasing percentage.

Now, an international word-of mouth bestseller book by John Perkins Confessions of An Economic Hit Man: The shocking inside story of how America REALLY took over the world Ebury Press, 2006, reveals the shocking truth: False and exaggerated economic projections are given in order to justify why poor countries should be lent huge credit loans, which in return are used to award big jobs to companies from donor countries, and consequently enslaves the borrowing countries and their people, to the lender countries.

According to Perkins, Economic Hit Men (EHM) are highly paid professionals, who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, USAID and other foreign donors into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet’s natural resources. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, sex and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken a terrifying dimension during this time of globalisation.

Mr John Perkins, 60, who graduated from Boston University College of Business Administration in 1966, comes from a family tree of American nationalists traced to Thomas Paine who published the famous historical “common sense” which encouraged the American War of Liberation. The book on EHM’s is Mr Perkins story. He was a successful EHM, who decided to confess his sins in order to be at peace with him-self.

From the time he was enlisted, he was emphatically told that his mission was to be an Economic Hit Man, and that no one, not even his wife was to know his involvements. Specifically his job was to encourage world leaders to become part of a vast network that promotes USA commercial interests. In the end those leaders became ensnared in the web of debts that ensures their loyalty.

The USA Government can then draw on them whenever it desires to satisfy it’s political, economic or military needs. In return the enslaved world leaders bolster their political positions by bringing industrial parks, power plants, and airports to their people. The owners of USA engineering and construction companies become fabulously wealthy. The EHM is however just a footman, if he fails an assassin (a jackal) steps in. If the jackal fails, the USA military mighty invades.

So now we know why presidents of weak countries become docile towards American dictates. If the EHM succeeds like they have succeeded in Uganda, they falsify economic indicators: economic growth becomes one of the best in the world.

The GDP tremendously improves. Poverty levels are artificially reduced. As the economy gets ENRONISED, it is globally categorized as a “model” development state. It is rated AAA or BB+ and the donors pour in huge loans. Big corporations from the donor countries follow to do all the major donor- funded programs.

In Uganda for example, foreign consultants earn more than 95% of the $300 million in annual technical assistances while local consultants get only 5% ($15 million). During this period, the new neo-colonizers (EHM) do not stay in the old former Colonial Governor’s administrative offices and residents.

The EHM digs his trenches in Bank of Uganda and in the fortified Boardrooms at the ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development. EHM are more sophisticated. They come as Executives of Monsanto, General Motors, Nike, Citi Group, Wall Mart, General Motors or Commonwealth Development Corporation (CDC) owners of our DFCU Bank. These days they come under the guise of leaders of religious groups, and then, ask for contracts or business deals. If EHM are successful, the loan is so large that the debtor is forced to default, and is blackmailed to pay with his pound of flesh.

But if the EHM meets a hard nut to crack, a nationalist President of country X, the assassin steps in. That is how some nationalists presidents were either overthrown or killed: In 1954, Guatemala nationalist President Jacob Arbenz was invaded, his city bombed by American air force and assassinated.

In 1973, Chile’s nationalist President Allende Salvadour, who had just been democratically elected was overthrown in a CIA-engineered plot. He was killed in a bomb blast. Jaime Roldos (Ecuador) was killed in plane crash May 24, 1981, and Omar Torrijos (Panama) was also killed in plane crash July 31,1981.

If the jackal fails like they did with Fidel Castro or Sadam Hussein, the USA military mighty and its allies invade the country, take the president of that country as prisoner of war (President Manuel Noriega of Panama, was taken prisoner in 1984 and sentenced to 40 years by USA courts). In the case of Iraq, USA sent in a total of 500,000 soldiers.

After destroying the economy of the invaded country, USA then proceed to approve astronomical sums in re-construction of the vanquished country, and give major construction jobs to USA companies with ties to members of the ruling clique.

The success of EHM is measured by how much a country is economically messed up, especially in squandering its resources such as oil. In 1968, an American Oil Company discovered huge oil deposits in the Latin America Republic of Ecuador. Today oil accounts for nearly half of Ecuador’s exports. A substandard Trans-Andean oil pipeline built at that time has since leaked more than 500,000 barrels of oil into the rain forest.

Today a new $1.3 billion, 300 hundred mile oil pipeline connecting Ecuador to USA, will make Ecuador one of the top ten countries supplying oil to USA. Despite past and future fortunes, the EHM have ensured that Ecuador is actually worse than before the oil bonanza. Since the oil boom of 1970, poverty levels have worsened from 50% in 1970 to 70% as of now.

Unemployment rate worsened from 15% to 70%, public debt increased from $240 million to $16 billion and the resource envelop allocated to the poorest segment of the population decreased from 20% to a miserable 6% in the same period (1970 - 2005).

Mr. Perkins was a top official with an international American company called MAIN, which dealt in consultancy and huge construction work. Perkins main work involved two key roles: One was to justify reasons for lending huge sums of money to countries deemed suitable, and ensure that the huge loans were funneled back to huge USA corporations.

Secondly he formulated dubious economic projections, which would end up bankrupting borrowing countries. Specifically he would falsify figures showing that particular projects or programs would contribute to enormous GNP growth of a country covering say 20 to 25 years in future. Even when huge economic development benefited only few people, it would be shown as if the whole country would grow richer.

In Indonesia, he was asked to project electricity power demand growth of between 17% and 20% annually even when the realistic rate was between 7% and 9%. How does USA manage to lend so much money, which is normally never paid back, and end up written off? Perkins explains that USA has managed to become new super imperialist power because it prints the dollars, which is not backed by any thing.

The USA Mint has the right to print all those dollars. The current USA financial powers can last as long as the Saudis, the Japanese, Chinese and European Union continue to invest in the USA Government bonds and accept payment in printed dollars. If in future the above economic power blocks withdraw their faith in the USA printed dollar that will be the end of the America’s dominating financial powers. (page 212)

But not everything is moving on like a matter of clockwork. The CIA-backed Shah of Iran was overthrown. After reading the book one feels tempted to doubt the flowerily economic growth rate Bank of Uganda and other Government officials have been telling Ugandans to believe. With good reasons.

It is simple economics that economic growth rate which is far below interest rate lead to bankruptcy. How come for example, that while Uganda has been registering impressive economic growth, it has, at the same time become more indebted?
 
Wakenya wanapenda sana kusema kuwa wana uchumi mzuri sana na kwamba wako juu ya Tanzania sana. Huo ni uongo kwa sababu Mwaka 2000, GDP ya kenya ilikuwa 10.4 billion USD na Tanzania ilikuwa 9.6 billion USD. Hiyo tofauti siyo kubwa sana. Tangia hapo ukuaji wa uchumi wa kenya ulikuwa goigoi wakati wa Tanzania ulikuwa mwendo mdundo. Wawekezaji ambao ni dynamo ya uchumi wowote, Tanzania imekuwa inavutia wawekezaji wengi zaidi tangia mwaka 2000 kuliko nchi yoyote ya africa mashariki.
Sasa wanaposema wana uchumi mzuri kuliko Taznania sijui wanamaanisha nini?

imi naona watanzania tuwakaribishe hawa jamaa ili waone jinsi ya kuendesha mambo kiutaalam. Unyang'au ilikuwa zamani sana. They are struggling kuliko tunavyoweza kujua. Kilichokuwa kinatukwamisha ni miundo mbinu lakini kwa sasa tuna cha kujivunia na miaka mitano ijayo bandari yetu ya DAr itakuwa kubwa na cargo nyingi kuliko yoyote bahari ya hindi ukizingatia treni na barabara tunazojenga. Wasomi tunao wengi kwa sasa na tukiwa na vyuo vikuu vingi zaidi Afrika Mashariki kwa sasa ambapo matunda yatakuwa yanaanza kuonekana tunapoingia kwenye federation.
Watanzania tukae mkao wa kula. Tunajua siasa nzuri kuliko kenya kwa uwezekano ni kwamba Rais wa shirikisho atakuwa anatoka Tanzania mpaka milele. Zingatia mji wetu wa Arusha.
 
"Hata wakati wa biashara ya utumwa kulikuwepo na waafrika wenzetu ambao walikuwa tayari kuwauza wenzao kwa wazungu au waarabu. Hao pia walikuwa vi-kulacho, wakiwemo baadhi ya machifu, wafanyabiashara na kadhalika."

Kulingana na lahaja/lafudhi yako (yani accent) wewe ni msukuma au mhaya. Wazee wetu wazanzibar, kina Titutipu na wengineo, walifanya makosa makubwa! Hawaku wauza wote utumwani, tusingalikuwa na watu wanao tumia hisia badala ya maantiki!

Je unakumbaka .......'Yalio pita sindwele tugange yajayo' Ikiwa mtu mawazo yake mafupi kuna makosa akiambiwa wazi wazi?
 
Tanzania
GDP purchasing power parity $26.85 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate) $11.62 billion (2005 est.)
GDP - real growth rate 6.8% (2005 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP) $700 (2005 est.)
Kenya
2005.
GDP (purchasing power parity) $29.6 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate) $16.25 billion (2005 est.)
GDP - real growth rate 5.2% (2005 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP) $900 (2005 est.)

Uchumi huu hauzidiani sana na TZ na Kenya watakuwa sawa within 5 years of continued economic growth
 
Unregistered said:
Tanzania
GDP purchasing power parity $26.85 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate) $11.62 billion (2005 est.)
....................................................................................

You have those data for last year. This website ranks all african countries if you are interested. But again there are a lot of factors considered which might not be the real case on the ground. Only top 40 are mentioned on each category.

Thanks


http://www.joinafrica.com/Country_Rankings/home.htm
 
Unregistered said:
KAMPALA said:
don't blame the poor old tanzanians,they feel threatened economically by Kenyans.It is understandable ,they can't argue rationally, so far all they have been arguing about is how proud and arrogant kenyans are, no empirical or technical evidence against EAC, it is obvious these brothers suffer from serious bout of low self esteem,hapless folks have been overtaken by Ugandans who were ten times poorer than Tanzanians in 1986 but are doing better than Tanzanians now.Tanzanians you are east africa WEAKEST LINK.
MNAJIFANYA NG'OMBE MKAMULIWE NA NANI?[/QUOTE


Seems you don`t understand how this world evolves and rotates huh !!!Is it from east to west,as you have been taught ? Think again,utajiona mpumbavu kupindukia.Just a hint,how this world`s economy is being run,read this :

http://www.monitor.co.ug/inspol/inspol10258.php

TEDDY SEEZI CHEEYE
• Big lessons from Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
When IMF team visited Uganda for the first time shortly after NRM had just taken over power in 1986, and found that Uganda did not have economic figures it needed as a pre-requisite for lending, a friendly leader of the IMF team, a Kenyan, advised his Ugandan brothers to cook up some nice economic figures, because there was no way IMF could lend Uganda money without figures. The Ugandan team retreated in the kitchen and did a wonderful statistical spicing. Economic growth rate was put at a pleasing percentage.

Now, an international word-of mouth bestseller book by John Perkins Confessions of An Economic Hit Man: The shocking inside story of how America REALLY took over the world Ebury Press, 2006, reveals the shocking truth: False and exaggerated economic projections are given in order to justify why poor countries should be lent huge credit loans, which in return are used to award big jobs to companies from donor countries, and consequently enslaves the borrowing countries and their people, to the lender countries.

According to Perkins, Economic Hit Men (EHM) are highly paid professionals, who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, USAID and other foreign donors into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet’s natural resources. Their tools include fraudulent financial reports, sex and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken a terrifying dimension during this time of globalisation.

Mr John Perkins, 60, who graduated from Boston University College of Business Administration in 1966, comes from a family tree of American nationalists traced to Thomas Paine who published the famous historical “common sense” which encouraged the American War of Liberation. The book on EHM’s is Mr Perkins story. He was a successful EHM, who decided to confess his sins in order to be at peace with him-self.

From the time he was enlisted, he was emphatically told that his mission was to be an Economic Hit Man, and that no one, not even his wife was to know his involvements. Specifically his job was to encourage world leaders to become part of a vast network that promotes USA commercial interests. In the end those leaders became ensnared in the web of debts that ensures their loyalty.

The USA Government can then draw on them whenever it desires to satisfy it’s political, economic or military needs. In return the enslaved world leaders bolster their political positions by bringing industrial parks, power plants, and airports to their people. The owners of USA engineering and construction companies become fabulously wealthy. The EHM is however just a footman, if he fails an assassin (a jackal) steps in. If the jackal fails, the USA military mighty invades.

So now we know why presidents of weak countries become docile towards American dictates. If the EHM succeeds like they have succeeded in Uganda, they falsify economic indicators: economic growth becomes one of the best in the world.

The GDP tremendously improves. Poverty levels are artificially reduced. As the economy gets ENRONISED, it is globally categorized as a “model” development state. It is rated AAA or BB+ and the donors pour in huge loans. Big corporations from the donor countries follow to do all the major donor- funded programs.

In Uganda for example, foreign consultants earn more than 95% of the $300 million in annual technical assistances while local consultants get only 5% ($15 million). During this period, the new neo-colonizers (EHM) do not stay in the old former Colonial Governor’s administrative offices and residents.

The EHM digs his trenches in Bank of Uganda and in the fortified Boardrooms at the ministry of Finance, Planning and Economic Development. EHM are more sophisticated. They come as Executives of Monsanto, General Motors, Nike, Citi Group, Wall Mart, General Motors or Commonwealth Development Corporation (CDC) owners of our DFCU Bank. These days they come under the guise of leaders of religious groups, and then, ask for contracts or business deals. If EHM are successful, the loan is so large that the debtor is forced to default, and is blackmailed to pay with his pound of flesh. ........
QUOTE]

Yeeeeess, my friend!

What an informed person you are.

Among those victims of assasination of Nationalist leaders, count in Julius Kambarage Nyerere of Tanzania. He was not leading his country then, he had retired. But he was still very influential, too influential. The moment he started to voice his displeasure to the gold mine and other contracts, well he was invited to a hospital in London, where he was poisoned. Even Clinton was suprised, wanted his transfered to US. Whether he wanted to do it himself or wanted to genunely help is unclear.

It is now histroy! Africans and people of poor countries, we need to learn a lot!
 
Back
Top Bottom