Fight or flight? Dilemma of Kenyan investors in TZ

[DAR si LAMU]

Tatizo la Kenya ni dhana potofu waliyonayo kuwa wao (Kenya) ni bora kuliko Watanzania! Kwa miaka wamekuwa wanaamini hivyo na hata kuja kwao kufanya biashara hapa wanakuja na very bad attitude. Wanadharau watu, wanajiona wao wako juu na mbaya zaidi wanapokuta Watanzania sio watu wa makelele (confrontational) basi wao wanadhani watu ni wajinga. Ni pale biashara inapokwama ndio wanaanza kuleta ngonjera za mara middle class ya Tanzania ni ndogo!.Hivi wakati wanaanza biashara hawakujua middle class ilikuwa ndogo? Na huo u-middle class wa Kenya ni upi? Ni wa Kibera?

....Teh, teh, teh! This is gooood!

Ukisoma kwenye hiyo article kuna mahali wameandika kuwa watanzania wanapenda kuva kanga, mashuka, vikoy! na wanaeleza kana kwamba sababu ya maduka ya nguo toka Kenya kutofanya vizuri hapa bongo ni kwa sababu watanzania wanavaa mashuka! Increadible! Wakenya wamejua lini kuvaa? Ukikatiza mitaa ya Nairobi wako wamama kibao wamechanganya rangi kama x'mas tree leo hii ndio mwandishi anasema watanzania wanavaa mashuka? Madharau gani haya? Fikra za kikoloni ndio zinawasumbua.

...Ni ujinga wa baadhi yao! Dharau will do them no good.

 

[Wacha1]

Wezi wamekutana.

 

[Askari Kanzu]

You fools do not know that, in order to streamline and rid corruption and ensure faster growth of services...

Nyie wakenya hamna lolote na wala si chochote. Kwanza wengi wenu weusi tiii kama mkaa (zaidi ya giza la Dar). Na mkome kujiona eti ni watu "mlioendelea" wakati nchi yenu bado iko katika fungu la nchi mafukara wa kutupwa ulimwenguni! Mmekaa kila siku kujifananisha na Watanzania. Hivi nyie mna matatizo gani ya akili ambayo hayaponyeki? Shame on you!

 

[Gad ONEYA]

I don't want to indulge into a utopia uttering of economic growth in the country where discipline of fiscal virtues is wobbly low, and officials will do anything to publish forecast figures which, looks rosy. But I think very few people in Tanzania may be dancing this mantra of above 7% economic growth. As a matter of fact, who can we tell with precise substantiation that this same growth can translate or be measured into real growth in terms of government capacity to fund its own expenditure(we all know what is happening now in the govt) let alone national projects; worst still, industrial production in a country where factories are all but dead with few exceptions, is there any growth? When one cites Rwanda as the only country in our region whose growth purports to surpass Tanzania’s; regarding this case, there exist vivid examples that Rwanda is even tackling poverty issues by trying to eliminate grass thatched houses to start with in an attempt to equate it to quality of life of ordinary people, neither is the case with Tanzania!!
Again, I may deduce from this fight or flight analysis of Kenyans about Tz market is that they were lured by these phony funky figures of economic growth, thinking that the same translate to purchasing power of ordinary Tanzanians who mainly form a big chunk of that potential market, while forgetting that statistics in almost all African countries are not factual, usually doctored to depict rosy statement of affairs which, however, doesn’t exist or is relatively worse off!
Tanzanian market is a complex thing; from unconventional business practices to putting promise in compromise! While most Kenyans do not seem to know the basics of Tanzanian market partnered by their arrogance of may-be “authoritative” than Tanzanians, given almost every battle in business sector seems to continue on until someone gives up, rather than gives in, it is possible to learn this most useful art of luring foreign investors into TZ by using massaged stats!
Another thing, Kenyan companies are always growing in confidence, from the very beginning and continuing throughout the process of setting their foot in Tanzania hopping for a ride into profit glory of business by somehow fishy environment in Kenya which is different from what we have in Tanzania. But how fast did they want to earn profits or grow?
Kenyans must realize that TZ is fundamentally different from theirs and they need to go there and do homework, learn the Tanzania’s local selling culture, how your product will be sold and merchandised; and how Tanzanian businessmen evade tax, lol!
The bottom line is, some Kenyan businesses may have screwed up in Tanzania, but indeed our house is in a deep a shit!

 

[Geza Ulole]

I don't want to indulge into a utopia uttering of economic growth in the country where discipline of fiscal virtues is wobbly low, and officials will do anything to publish forecast figures which, looks rosy. But I think very few people in Tanzania may be dancing this mantra of above 7% economic growth. As a matter of fact, who can we tell with precise substantiation that this same growth can translate or be measured into real growth in terms of government capacity to fund its own expenditure(we all know what is happening now in the govt) let alone national projects; worst still, industrial production in a country where factories are all but dead with few exceptions, is there any growth? When one cites Rwanda as the only country in our region whose growth purports to surpass Tanzania's; regarding this case, there exist vivid examples that Rwanda is even tackling poverty issues by trying to eliminate grass thatched houses to start with in an attempt to equate it to quality of life of ordinary people, neither is the case with Tanzania!!
Again, I may deduce from this fight or flight analysis of Kenyans about Tz market is that they were lured by these phony funky figures of economic growth, thinking that the same translate to purchasing power of ordinary Tanzanians who mainly form a big chunk of that potential market, while forgetting that statistics in almost all African countries are not factual, usually doctored to depict rosy statement of affairs which, however, doesn't exist or is relatively worse off!
Tanzanian market is a complex thing; from unconventional business practices to putting promise in compromise! While most Kenyans do not seem to know the basics of Tanzanian market partnered by their arrogance of may-be "authoritative" than Tanzanians, given almost every battle in business sector seems to continue on until someone gives up, rather than gives in, it is possible to learn this most useful art of luring foreign investors into TZ by using massaged stats!
Another thing, Kenyan companies are always growing in confidence, from the very beginning and continuing throughout the process of setting their foot in Tanzania hopping for a ride into profit glory of business by somehow fishy environment in Kenya which is different from what we have in Tanzania. But how fast did they want to earn profits or grow?
Kenyans must realize that TZ is fundamentally different from theirs and they need to go there and do homework, learn the Tanzania's local selling culture, how your product will be sold and merchandised; and how Tanzanian businessmen evade tax, lol!
The bottom line is, some Kenyan businesses may have screwed up in Tanzania, but indeed our house is in a deep a shit!

I will respect u if u will be backing up ur statements with references as a critical thinker instead of only lamenting from the air without points to back up ur facts! as for me i tell u industry sector has been growing excellently regardless of power shortages read here to see what i am talking about! What u suffer from is stereotype syndrome that makes u think ur analysis can convince us to believe what u say! If u think the data r cooked then u should go through the IMF or WB formula used to come up with a country's yearly GDP growth to make urself conversant with these issues since r not rocket science! But just to tell u again and again yes our country is in problems but not as Kenya! Otherwise u r against World renowned Economists that come up with figures everyday whether on inflation or GDP growth e.t.c.

 

[Kabaridi]

I will respect u if u will be backing up ur statements with references as a critical thinker instead of only lamenting from the air without points to back up ur facts! as for me i tell u industry sector has been growing excellently regardless of power shortages read here to see what i am talking about! What u suffer from is stereotype syndrome that makes u think ur analysis can convince us to believe what u say! If u think the data r cooked then u should go through the IMF or WB formula used to come up with a country's yearly GDP growth to make urself conversant with these issues since r not rocket science! But just to tell u again and again yes our country is in problems but not as Kenya! Otherwise u r against World renowned Economists that come up with figures everyday whether on inflation or GDP growth e.t.c.

At a more fundamental level, Tanzania remains one of the world’s poorest countries despite the huge strides made in recent years to promote economic development. The country still lags behind most of its neighbours in terms of economic development and is unlikely to meet all the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). With rapid population growth forecast for the next 50 years, it will prove very challenging to stem poverty in the medium to longer term, particularly as government revenues are spread very thinly.

There are, however, potentially destabilising political factors including Zanzibari separatism and periodic unrest along Tanzania’s borders. However, neither is a severe threat for the short term.

 

[Gavana]

You do not know that, in order to streamline and rid corruption and ensure faster growth of services, you can have to privatize sometimes but not necessarily. In EABL, diageo owns 50 %, even EAst african portland cement has investors within. Only that will ensure that such firms will operate consistently. That is the only medium currently that may help aid African economies that grow at a slow rate, instead of trusting an African government, which may not have the best capacity to implement growth of companies. However this challenges companies are facing, all boils down to attitude of the players in the market especially the govt authorities. Out of ignorance they may try to block or insinuate negative or stigmatize other foreign players, probably due to being uninformed on economic and business principles. The companies from foreigners may try to employ locals. KCB may close because of incurring losses, yes, much to your satisfaction, but why did Wool-mart also close shop? Same effects of a people who are not aware that a recession has quietly fended off business-men from their backyard. It is quite clear your extraneous remarks are palpable

Tanzania is not a yard stick for these fools to be insinuating their negative rhetoric!


MATHEW5:22

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,'[SUP][[/SUP] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

 

[Geza Ulole]

At a more fundamental level, Tanzania remains one of the world's poorest countries despite the huge strides made in recent years to promote economic development. The country still lags behind most of its neighbours in terms of economic development and is unlikely to meet all the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). With rapid population growth forecast for the next 50 years, it will prove very challenging to stem poverty in the medium to longer term, particularly as government revenues are spread very thinly.

There are, however, potentially destabilising political factors including Zanzibari separatism and periodic unrest along Tanzania's borders. However, neither is a severe threat for the short term.

wewe unafanya nini Somalia? na Mombasa separatists umewaacha wapi na the fightings at the Ilemi tringle! acha kutapa tapa wewe! Zanzibar si big deal to Tanzania Mainland!

 

[Rufiji]

Tatizo la Kenya ni dhana potofu waliyonayo kuwa wao (Kenya) ni bora kuliko Watanzania! Kwa miaka wamekuwa wanaamini hivyo na hata kuja kwao kufanya biashara hapa wanakuja na very bad attitude. Wanadharau watu, wanajiona wao wako juu na mbaya zaidi wanapokuta Watanzania sio watu wa makelele (confrontational) basi wao wanadhani watu ni wajinga. Ni pale biashara inapokwama ndio wanaanza kuleta ngonjera za mara middle class ya Tanzania ni ndogo!.Hivi wakati wanaanza biashara hawakujua middle class ilikuwa ndogo? Na huo u-middle class wa Kenya ni upi? Ni wa Kibera?

Ukisoma kwenye hiyo article kuna mahali wameandika kuwa watanzania wanapenda kuva kanga, mashuka, vikoy! na wanaeleza kana kwamba sababu ya maduka ya nguo toka Kenya kutofanya vizuri hapa bongo ni kwa sababu watanzania wanavaa mashuka! Increadible! Wakenya wamejua lini kuvaa? Ukikatiza mitaa ya Nairobi wako wamama kibao wamechanganya rangi kama x'mas tree leo hii ndio mwandishi anasema watanzania wanavaa mashuka? Madharau gani haya? Fikra za kikoloni ndio zinawasumbua.

Mzee, you have made my day, yaani nimecheka mpaka other people think I am crazy. Nimependa sana huu mfano wako wa x-mas tree...nimecheka sana.

 

[eliakeem]

At a more fundamental level, Tanzania remains one of the world’s poorest countries despite the huge strides made in recent years to promote economic development. The country still lags behind most of its neighbours in terms of economic development and is unlikely to meet all the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). With rapid population growth forecast for the next 50 years, it will prove very challenging to stem poverty in the medium to longer term, particularly as government revenues are spread very thinly.

There are, however, potentially destabilising political factors including Zanzibari separatism and periodic unrest along Tanzania’s borders. However, neither is a severe threat for the short term.

Pliz dont take on urself..... but this a c..ra-p.... u r talking as if you are a native of continental Europe (red text)... kumbe unatokea kibera.. very sad to know....

 

[EMT]

Unadai kuwa

As an investment destination, Tanzania has all the right ingredients. It is large geographically, has natural resources, a good economy that is growing faster than Kenya's, albeit from a lower base, and plenty of opportunities for trade and investment. In 2012, Tanzania's economy is expected to grow at 7.5 per cent, compared with Kenya's 5.6 per cent.

Right. Lakini pamoja na Tanzania kuwa na hayo yote.

The icing on the cake is that Tanzania has a lower percentage of its population classified as middle class, compared with other countries in the region. Tanzanian has just 12 per cent of its population classified as middle class - they earn between $4 (Ksh332) and $20 (Ksh1,660) a day, according to a classification by the African Development Bank in 2010. Similar figures in the region are: Kenya (44.9 per cent), Uganda (18.7 per cent), Rwanda (7.7 per cent) and Burundi (5.3 per cent).

Ni kwa nini? Kwa sababu ya Wakenya? Why can't you address this issue badala yake kulalama kwa Wakenya tuu?

here is a men talk with critical analysis!

Soma posts zako 10 za mwisho hapa JF, halafu point out ni wapi you talked with critical analysis. Unajua maana ya critical analysis wewe? Au kuita wengine "fools", "nyang'au", etc ndiyo critical analysis yako?

 

[Gad ONEYA]

I will respect u if u will be backing up ur statements with references as a critical thinker instead of only lamenting from the air without points to back up ur facts! as for me i tell u industry sector has been growing excellently regardless of power shortages read here to see what i am talking about! What u suffer from is stereotype syndrome that makes u think ur analysis can convince us to believe what u say! If u think the data r cooked then u should go through the IMF or WB formula used to come up with a country's yearly GDP growth to make urself conversant with these issues since r not rocket science! But just to tell u again and again yes our country is in problems but not as Kenya! Otherwise u r against World renowned Economists that come up with figures everyday whether on inflation or GDP growth e.t.c.

May be I recommend you some readings for further consultations! Data cooking in Africa is rampant as I understand it my brother. Can you cite categorically which industry grew despite of persistent power outages in Tanzania if at all is not gimmick aimed at smoothing matters? We all saw how prices rose up amid acute power outages throughout last 2 years. It's very simple for you to generalize these things, however, I would rather urge you to stick to specifics like government finances vis-a-vis handout from abroad.

 

[Gad ONEYA]

Unadai kuwa



Right. Lakini pamoja na Tanzania kuwa na hayo yote.



Ni kwa nini? Kwa sababu ya Wakenya? Why can't you address this issue badala yake kulalama kwa Wakenya tuu?



Soma posts zako 10 za mwisho hapa JF, halafu point out ni wapi you talked with critical analysis. Unajua maana ya critical analysis wewe? Au kuita wengine "fools", "nyang'au", etc ndiyo critical analysis yako?

There is a lot of substance in this analysis, tatizo dogo ni ugomvi kwamba imetolewa na Wakenya lol! This is saddening!

 

[Kabaridi]

Pliz dont take on urself..... but this a c..ra-p.... u r talking as if you are a native of continental Europe (red text)... kumbe unatokea kibera.. very sad to know....

Uko nyuma sana, Even Ethiopia here next door is talking of millennium development goals, which world are you situated in??

 

[EMT]

Again, I may deduce from this fight or flight analysis of Kenyans about Tz market is that they were lured by these phony funky figures of economic growth, thinking that the same translate to purchasing power of ordinary Tanzanians who mainly form a big chunk of that potential market, while forgetting that statistics in almost all African countries are not factual, usually doctored to depict rosy statement of affairs which, however, doesn't exist or is relatively worse off!

That is the crux of the matter. A lot of business investors are being misled on the paper that the economy is doing really well, but on the ground things are completely the opposite. It is when the investor hits the ground, they realize the nature of the market. Even here, I haven't mentioned the power crisis and bureaucracy.

 

[Geza Ulole]

May be I recommend you some readings for further consultations! Data cooking in Africa is rampant as I understand it my brother. Can you cite categorically which industry grew despite of persistent power outages in Tanzania if at all is not gimmick aimed at smoothing matters? We all saw how prices rose up amid acute power outages throughout last 2 years. It's very simple for you to generalize these things, however, I would rather urge you to stick to specifics like government finances vis-a-vis handout from abroad.

can u take time to go through the report that was 2010! BTW even in the rest of EA there was power shading so what happened in 2011 also affected the rest in EA!

 

[Gad ONEYA]

can u take time to go through the report that was 2010! BTW even in the rest of EA there was power shading so what happened in 2011 also affected the rest in EA!

Bro, ongeza na zako! It's a good idea to talk on facts, but I don't think it's a good thing to ponder on uncertain facts! Tanzania viwanda vingi vimekufa, with exception of TBL n'TCC na Bakhressa, kilimo cha pamba kiko ICU, kahawa kina just survival! Sijui hizi figure za kupika unazipa credibility kiasi gani! Madini ambako kunakuwa hata wahusika wa regulatory authorities hawana stats kamili(refer controversies zinazotokana na kila mtu kutoa stats zake): Je industry zetu bongo zinaproduce kiasi gani ku-export? Balance of Trade ya bongo na Kenya ikoje?! I agree with you in principle kwamba Wakenya wana distorted attitude na mbovu towards Wabongo, but vitu unavyovitetea nyumbani are too much skewed to a narrow pyramid!

 

[zuri]

tell me how is Tanzanian Govt is culpable of managing its economy if our economy has been growing better than Kenyan? I know i am not satisfied with the way and pace at which things are handled in Tanzania but that does not make me be obsessed with Kenyan government since it is even performing worst! Considering their economy has grown at a lower pace and they have been having inflation higher than ours! Only a better performer like Rwandan Govt can point a finger towards us and not Kenyans! that's my argument!

Tanzania has so many minerals and where does the money go?to south africa and the nice houses in mbezi and masaki?Tanzania has so much land we could feed the rest of africa without even irrigating.Tanzania should be the largest economy in eastAfrica.Growth of 7.5% is surprising considering we were in the dark the whole of last year.
Doing business in kenya is no more different than Tanzania.Try and use the lunga lunga boarder crossing and there you are met with barrier after barrier of why your goods should not get into kenya.

 

[Lonestriker]

Kenyans have an attitude problem,a kind of arrogance mainly rooted in ignorance when talking about Tanzania.
Truth however bitterly presented still remains to be truth,the truth is that a lot of what has been raised in the article is true.
We are not ambitious,poor working attitude...we have so many inherent weaknesses,tukubali ukweli tufanye kazi since we have the best potential in the reason.

 

[EMT]

Kenyans have an attitude problem,a kind of arrogance mainly rooted in ignorance when talking about Tanzania.
Truth however bitterly presented still remains to be truth,the truth is that a lot of what has been raised in the article is true.
We are not ambitious,poor working attitude...we have so many inherent weaknesses,tukubali ukweli tufanye kazi since we have the best potential in the reason.

I am sure kama tungekuwa ambitious, first class working attitude, etc Wakenya wasingetuona sie wakuja. Tatizo ni kwamba watu wanaendekeza personal hatred dhidi ya Wakenya wakidhani kuwa hii itatuondolea matatizo yetu.