Hosea aligeuzia Bunge kibao

Zitto said:

Mifano mizuri hii ya kujifunza!

Kitu kimoja napenda kuweka sawa, DPP hana mamlaka ya kuchunguza. Hafanyi uchunguzi, yeye anatakiwa kuangalia uchunguzi na ushahidi na kuamua kama kuna kesi na kuendesha mashitaka. DPP Hachunguzi kabisa na Katiba haimtaki kuchunguza..........

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Thanks. that is a big lesson to me. Sikuwa najua hili.

Shapu said:

Nikianza na hili binafsi kushindwa kubaini udhaifu kwa TAKUKURU litakuwa kosa tu pale itakapo thibitika beyond reasonable doubts kwamba walifanya uzembe katika kazi yao ya kuchunguza. Nadhani wanaiita proof on negligence (mtanisaidia wataalaam). Na hii ku toa ushaidi yaweza kuwa ni ngumu sana. Kwa mawazo yangu nadhani ndio imepelekea serikali kutomchukulia hatua. Hi ni kwa mfano dakitari akifanya upasuaji mtu kichwa alafu huyo mtu akafariki, ili huyu mtu awe na kosa lazima kuwe na ushahidi madhubuti kuwa daktari alifanya uzembe katika upasuaji. Kitu ambacho mara nyingi ni vigumu. Takukuru kama wakaguzi wengine au wachunguzi hutumia sample na available information. So if at that time uchunguzi unafanyika hawakupewa enough infos then wangeconclude vile na wasiweze kuwa hatiani hata kama baadae information zaidi zitajulikana na zikafanya ile conclusion yao ya awali kuwa tofauti.

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Sikubaliani na hoja hii hata kidogo!!!!!!!!!
PCCB hawatakiwi kufanya makosa katika kazi yao kisha wananchi tukubali. Vinginevyo ni bora ifutwe tubakie na jeshi la polisi kufanya kazi zao.
Haiwezekani suala lililochunguzwa na PCCB lionekana shwari halafu chombo kingine kikagundua makosa!!!!! Then we no longer need PCCB!!
Huo ndiyo ukweli. Lazima tufahamu sababu hasa iliyofanya chombo hiki kuundwa ni ili kiweze kuaminika kwa kiwango cha juu kabisa baada ya hisia za kuwepo kwa rushwa katika utendaji wa baadhi ya polisi. Huwezi kuongelea proof wakati utata katika kampuni yenyewe ya Richmond ni mkubwa mno.
Ili turejeshe imani yetu kwa PCCB ni lazima Hosea ajiuzulu. La hilo haliwezekani basi TAKUKURU ifutwe kwani haiaminiki tena ni bora kazi zao zifanywe na polisi kitengo cha upelelezi.

Mimi hapa labda naona mkuu MJJ hapa unaleta vision kwa wasomaji kuwa bwana Hosea hana hatia, that is what you are trying to stipulate, lakini kwa mantiki nyingine mimi naona Bunge haliwezi kumwonea mtu, kwanini kamati fulani imwonee mtu. halafu mimi naona kuwa kama kwa namna yoyote ile ulishiriki katika kuitia hasara either iwe govermenment au hata familia yako unastahili kuwajibika na wala sio kupewa onyo, kwa sababu onyo doesnt mean kuwa huyo mtu atabadilika lakini kwa mfano mtu anapokuwa demoted then anakuwa responsible for the incoming duties unless otherwise he/she is gonna be erased in the play for good. Hosea anastahili kuwajibika kwa vyo vyote vile, kwenye nchi yenye kujali utawala wa sheria all involved in Richmond scandals were supposed to be either demoted or fired.

Halafu tuangalie nchi nyingine kama za ulaya magharibi, waziri hujiuzulu tu kashfa iingiapo kwenye wizara yake, kwanini bongo tusiige mifano hiyo, kuna watu wengi Tanzania ya sasa ambao they can fix and fit nafasi ya mtu ambaye ni msaliti wa Taifa.

Lets change guys, tupo karne ya 21, what dou you Tanzania is like we are still in stone age---16C, hell no!, lets change, tuna kila sabau ya kubadilika--------guys yes we can!!!!!



Rom

Hivi ndugu zangu mbona siwaelewi?
Just because they were negligent in the Richmond

Hivi ndugu zangu mbona siwaelewi?
Just because they were negligent in the Richmond issue does it mean that they should not perfom their duties?????

Guys i think we are overreacting

lovulovu said:

hebu tuwe wakeli katika hili. ni kazi yao takukuru kuchunguza tuhuma zozote dhidi ya mtu yeyote anayetuhumiwa kuhusika kwa njia moja au nyingine na rushwa au kwa jina la siku hizi ufisadi. kwa hiyo waacheni takukuru wachunguze.

ni makosa kama sisi raia tutawakingia kifua wabunge fulani au watu fulani kwa sababu tu tunawapenda. tusiajali mapenzi yetu hapa. kila mla rushwa awe zitto, slaa, mbowe au hamad na juma duni haji wake wachunguzwe tu, mbaya kumwonea mtu.

tutakuwa tunaweka precedent mbaya kama tutang'angania akina mkapa, lowassa, rostam, manji, yona na jeetu pateli peke yao ndio wachunguzwe tu. tuwe na uchungu na mali yetu badala ya kuchagua nani awe na kibali cha kutuibia na asichunguzwe na nani aibe na achunguzwe!
lovulovu

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nakubaliana nawe ila swali ni hili hao akina Rostam wamesha chunguzwa ama wana anza na mambo mapya na kumaliza ya zamani ?

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Zitto hapa umesema kitu kimoja ambacho huwa kinanisumbua sana; kwanini uchunguzi wa CAG usiwe msingi wa kuleta mashtaka dhidi ya wahusika? Kwanini CAG asipewe mamlaka ya kuleta mashtaka au kuwasilisha ushahidi wake kwa DPP kwa kuleta mashtaka badala ya chombo kingine kuchunguza kilichokwisha chunguzwa hasa kama wote wanaangalia ushahidi ule ule?

Hivi TAKUKURU wakirudi na kusema kuwa hakuna matatizo katika uchunguzi wao (kama walivyofanya kwenye Richmond) ripoti ya CAG itaonekana vipi?

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Pia kwanini kabla hawajakamilisha uchunguzi mwingine na kutufahamisha Watanzania matokeo ya uchunguzi wao waanze tena uchunguzi mpya? Hivi tangu 2005 hadi sasa TAKUKURU imekamilisha chunguzi ngapi kuhusiana na ufisadi uliokithiri nchini? Na wahusika wangapi wamefunguliwa mashtaka na kuonekana na hatia? Majibu ya haya maswali wote tunayajua. Kwa hiyo kwa maoni yangu naona wanajibaraguza tu ili waonekane kwamba wanafanya kazi ilhali ushahidi unaonyesha hadi sasa hawana chochote cha kuonyesha kuhusu uchunguzi wao toka 2005 hadi sasa.

Kabuche1977 said:

Mimi hapa labda naona mkuu MJJ hapa unaleta vision kwa wasomaji kuwa bwana Hosea hana hatia, that is what you are trying to stipulate, lakini kwa mantiki nyingine mimi naona Bunge haliwezi kumwonea mtu, kwanini kamati fulani imwonee mtu.Rom

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Nikiangalia hoja zilizoletwa hapa juu ya Hosea. Kuna jambo linajia kwamba huenda Hosea aliambiwa usiseme kitu kuhusu hii isue. Ndio maana alicome up with clean Richmond. Sasa hili huwezi kulithibitisha moja kwa moja ili tumchukulie hatua za haraka. So kama hatuwezi kulithibitisha moja kwa moja then tunasema Hosea hakufanya kazi yake ipasavyo kuweza kugundua uozo. Hapa ndo kuna points za kuweza kumwandibisha. Je ni kwa nini hakufanya kazi yake ipasavyo? Sasa akitoa sababu then zile sababu zichunguzwe tuone kama kweli kulikuwa na intended negligence. Then kukionekana kweli alifanya uzembe wa hivyo then apewe adhabu stahiki. Tatizo langu ile ripoti ya kamati haielezi au haionyeshi beyond reasonable doubts ni kwa jinsi gani Hosea hakufanya kazi ipasavyo. So kama kamati haikuchunguza utendaji wa Hosea then sioni ni kwa nini wapendekeze adhabu. In terms of good governance hawatakuwa wanamtendea haki.

halafu mimi naona kuwa kama kwa namna yoyote ile ulishiriki katika kuitia hasara either iwe govermenment au hata familia yako unastahili kuwajibika na wala sio kupewa onyo,

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Hapo nakubaliana na wewe. Mfano Hosea sasa baada ya kubainika kwamba hakuweza kugundua uozo ktk Richmond na ukagunduliwa na watu wengine then yeye alistahili kujiuzulu. Sasa hajafanya hivyo then inabidi awajibishwe na ili uwajibishwe lazima kuwe na vigezo au ushahidi kweli hakufanya kazi ipasavyo au alikuwa influenced na watu etc etc . So to me naomba taratibu halali zifanyike tusiwe over reacting on someone without considering all facts.

Pengine Hosea akipewa mazingira anayo mengi tuu ya kutueleza kwa nini hakugundua. If he wish to not say kwa maslahi anayoyajua yeye then it was better for him long time ago awe amesha achia ngazi.

Unajua tanzania sasa ni chaos tu kwa kuwa wote ni walaji basi tit 4 tat no serious efforts to sort important issues zaidi ya kukabana koo kama vile kwakuwa mimi nimeiba na unanishtaki basi na wewe nitakufatilia kupata any wrong doing on you! ndio tatozo, kila mtu anamnyooshea kidole mwenzie na inaoonekana hakuna msafi! Kazi kwelikweli!

Zitto ndugu yetu, katika private sector, auditor (equivalent to CAG) hutoa findings zake kwa board/ owner (kama vile CAG hutoa kwa Govt na Bunge).
Kama kuna ubadhirifu wowote basi board/owner huamua kuchukua hatua (either kupeleka polisi , kumfukuza kazi, kumsamehe).
Mimi sidhani kuwa PCCB kazi yake ni kupokea findings za CAG na kuzifaniya kazi unless tukubali kuwa machinery yetu inamapungufu mengi na labda huchukulia taarifa za CAG ni hadithi (bedtime stories).
Mbunge amechukua posho ya siku tano na akaenda siku mbili, CAG akagundua, kinachofuata ni kumpa adhabu huyo mbunge na siyo kuita PCCB.
You are bogging down PCCB. Investigators wake could be used somewhere else kufanya kazi ya maana zaidi (bogus contracts) mfano Radar, Military vehicles etc na siyo kwenda Singida kuuliza Zitto alikuja lini na alikaa siku ngapi.

[

QUOTE=Zitto;543671]TAKUKURU wana wajibu wa kisheria kufanya uchunguzi kuhusu tuhuma za kwamba Wabunge tumekuwa tukilipwa zaidi ya tunachotakiwa kulipwa kisheria. Wabunge hatuna kinga ya kufanya vitendo vya matumizi mabaya ya fedha za umma na hatua hii ya TAKUKURU itaondoa 'impunity'. Kwamba wanafanya hivi kwa visasi sio kweli. Ni wajibu wao. Uchunguzi huu unafanyika kwa Kamati zote za Bunge na sio hizi tatu peke yake. Hivi kama Mbunge analpwa pesa ili asafiri kwa siku 5, na yeye anasafiri kwa siku moja. CAG anagundua hilo katika ripoti yake, kwa nini TAKUKURU wasichunguze na kufungua mashitaka?

Tuwaache TAKUKURU wafanye kazi yao kwa mujibu wa sheria. Bunge pia tufanye kazi yetu ya kuwasimamia hao TAKUKURU ili watende mema. Hiyo ndio checks and balances

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Sawa bwana Zito, ila huyo bwana Hosea akae pembeni kwanza hatuna imani naye kwani kama alifanya aliyoyafanya kwa Lowasa kumsafisha na Richmond, atashindwa vipi kuwabambikia wabunge tuhuma?

ok zitto nimekupata,ila natamani ugombee urais..........

Hosea ondoka takukuru. Umeshaboronga unang'ang'ania nini?? Pesa umeshapata tena nyingi kwa kumlinda lowasa hata hivyo imeshindikana ameng'oka. Sembuse wewe??? Ipo siku utang'oka tu tena vibaya.wataliano wanamsemo wanasema nanukuu. 'vox populi vox dei' utajaza fisadi mkubwa.

Heri said:

Zitto ndugu yetu, katika private sector, auditor (equivalent to CAG) hutoa findings zake kwa board/ owner (kama vile CAG hutoa kwa Govt na Bunge).
Kama kuna ubadhirifu wowote basi board/owner huamua kuchukua hatua (either kupeleka polisi , kumfukuza kazi, kumsamehe).
Mimi sidhani kuwa PCCB kazi yake ni kupokea findings za CAG na kuzifaniya kazi unless tukubali kuwa machinery yetu inamapungufu mengi na labda huchukulia taarifa za CAG ni hadithi (bedtime stories).
Mbunge amechukua posho ya siku tano na akaenda siku mbili, CAG akagundua, kinachofuata ni kumpa adhabu huyo mbunge na siyo kuita PCCB.
You are bogging down PCCB. Investigators wake could be used somewhere else kufanya kazi ya maana zaidi (bogus contracts) mfano Radar, Military vehicles etc na siyo kwenda Singida kuuliza Zitto alikuja lini na alikaa siku ngapi.

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Unachosema ni sawa sawa kabisa. Haiwezekani TAKUKURU wapewe kazi ya kumchunguza mbunge aliyechukua masurufu ya siku tano kwenda mahali halafu akaenda kukaa huko siku 2 au 3 badala ya 5. Hii ni kazi ya CAG ya kumuonya mbunge huyo na kumtaka arudishe masurufu ya ziada haraka iwezekanavyo. TAKUKURU ni Taasisi ya Kupambana na Kuzuia Rushwa, na kwa maoni yangu hapa hakuna rushwa.

kwa kifup ni hivi nchi haina mwelekeo

The former head of the state-firm that owns Beijing airport has been executed following his conviction on corruption charges, state media have reported. Li Peiying was found guilty of bribery and embezzlement totalling nearly $16m (£11m), Xinhua news agency said.

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Jamani tuangalie wenzetu China..corruption kubwa kama EPA watu wananyongwa!

Je tanzania watoto wadogo wanakufa maskini kwa kukosa tiba! Akina mama wajawazito nao wanakufa pia wakati wa kujifungua!

Je kwa nini wezi Tz wanapeta..wala hawafunguliwi mashtaka na kuhumiwa??????????????

Kulindana hadi lini???

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Zitto hapa umesema kitu kimoja ambacho huwa kinanisumbua sana; kwanini uchunguzi wa CAG usiwe msingi wa kuleta mashtaka dhidi ya wahusika? Kwanini CAG asipewe mamlaka ya kuleta mashtaka au kuwasilisha ushahidi wake kwa DPP kwa kuleta mashtaka badala ya chombo kingine kuchunguza kilichokwisha chunguzwa hasa kama wote wanaangalia ushahidi ule ule?

Hivi TAKUKURU wakirudi na kusema kuwa hakuna matatizo katika uchunguzi wao (kama walivyofanya kwenye Richmond) ripoti ya CAG itaonekana vipi?

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Bulesi said:

Kama kweli hawa wabunge wetu wanalipwa posho mara mbili mbili kwa ujanja ujanja hiyo sio RUSHWA bali ni WIZI kwahiyo sio kazi ya TAKUKURU kupeleleza bali hayo ni makosa ya jinai na wenye kazi hiyo ni wakina Manumba huko polisi!! If it is true that PCCB is investigating the parliamentary committees then they cannot be doing so independent of directives from IKULU; this being another strategy of getting even with speaker Sitta and his colleagues!!

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Heri said:

Zitto ndugu yetu, katika private sector, auditor (equivalent to CAG) hutoa findings zake kwa board/ owner (kama vile CAG hutoa kwa Govt na Bunge).
Kama kuna ubadhirifu wowote basi board/owner huamua kuchukua hatua (either kupeleka polisi , kumfukuza kazi, kumsamehe).
Mimi sidhani kuwa PCCB kazi yake ni kupokea findings za CAG na kuzifaniya kazi unless tukubali kuwa machinery yetu inamapungufu mengi na labda huchukulia taarifa za CAG ni hadithi (bedtime stories).
Mbunge amechukua posho ya siku tano na akaenda siku mbili, CAG akagundua, kinachofuata ni kumpa adhabu huyo mbunge na siyo kuita PCCB.
You are bogging down PCCB. Investigators wake could be used somewhere else kufanya kazi ya maana zaidi (bogus contracts) mfano Radar, Military vehicles etc na siyo kwenda Singida kuuliza Zitto alikuja lini na alikaa siku ngapi.

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Sadakta! Hii point mbona tunairuka sana?

Nilidhani TAKUKURU wao ni kwenye rushwa, na clearly kwenye cases hizi hakuna swala la rushwa bali ni wizi na udanganyifu.

Huku mtaani kwetu kwenye mambo ya wizi na udanganyifu tunaita polisi ... au labda pengine kwa waheshimiwa mambo yanakuwa tofauti kidogo.

Niliyosikia ni haya:

Hosea na Mwanyika hawana jinsi yoyote ile zaidi ya kuachia ngazi ka style ya ku-resign. Si kwa sababu wameboronga sana lakini kumwepusha Mkulu na dhahama ya November. Linalofanyika sasa ni Mkulu ku-negotiate jinsi ya kuwalinda baada ya ku-submit resignation letters. Ila Hosea anakuwa mgumu sana ku-negotiate hii deal maana anaona siasa za Tz za sasa haziaminiki kwa ahadi za "Nitakulinda" isitoshe atapoteza nafasi na fursa zilizokuwa zinatokana na uboss wa PCCB

Mambo yameharibika zaidi baada ya Tamko la Katibu Mkuu, hata Mkulu anamlaumu. Watuhumiwa wanazo kete nzito dhidi ya Mkulu na wanatishia kuzitumia Nov watakapobanwa na Wabunge.

Mbaya zaidi Hosea na Mwanyika wanafahamu mara ngapi Mkulu kawahadaa wananchi kupitia Bunge kwa report za kutungwa na zisizo na ukweli hata chembe. Mojawapoi ni ile ya "....pesa za EPA zilizokusanywa...."

Prevention and Combating of Corruption Bureau (PCCB) is at an advanced stage of investigating dozens of Members of Parliament accused of receiving double payments in allowances amounting to billions of shillings from various ministries and state owned corporations.
The allowance scandal comes just four months after the UK's parliament was rocked by the expense cheating saga that claimed scalps from political parties, including the ruling party. Following the expense scandal, dozens of MPs resigned after being implicated in the cheating saga.

It also comes at a time when lawmakers are asking to raise their salaries at par with the MPs of countries with exponentially higher budgets. The MPs, who currently make Sh7million ($5,292) per month - only Sh1.8m/- of which is their taxable basic salary - want to increase their basic salary to Sh3million and additional allowances to Sh9 million.

The proposed Sh12 million ($9,07 package would put the Parliamentarians in the range of Kenya's MPs, who earn a minimum of Ksh851,000 ($11,335) every month, of which only the basic salary of Ksh200, 000 ($2,664) is taxed. Some of the allowances making up additional Ksh651,000 ($8,560) include funds for gym memberships and unspecified ‘entertainment' costs.

The PCCB move also comes just after last week's tough stance over the anti-corruption Czar Dr Edward Hosea. The MPs called for his resignation accusing him of failing to detect corruption during his Richmond investigation in 2006.
Alarmed by demands of hefty allowances from lawmakers, some permanent secretaries and the chief executive officers of state owned corporations have complained about the MPs' behaviour to demand sitting allowances, The Guardian on Sunday has learnt.

The government directed PCCB to investigate whether in demanding double payments of sitting allowances despite being paid by the Parliament, the lawmakers broke the law or not and a senior PCCB official confirmed to this paper that very soon the public would be informed on this matter.

Declining to be named citing the sensitivity of the matter, the official said: "We started our investigation about a month ago after receiving instructions from the government…we are at the advance stage."

Contacted for comments on Friday, the anti graft Dr Hosea said: "I am barred by the law from discussing or giving details of those being investigated by my bureau. "The only thing I can tell is that investigation is there and we are still going on." The anti-corruption Czar told The Guardian on Sunday.

This paper has also established that nearly all members of key parliamentary committees will be investigated after their names were recorded as recipients of hefty allowances from various ministries and state corporations.
Contacted this week, the Clerk of the National Assembly Dr Thomas Kashilila said: "It's true but I have no mandate to speak about investigations being done by PCCB or any other law enforcement organs."

A senior executive officer of the Parliament who preferred anonymity admitted having knowledge of the investigation, admitting he was among officials interrogated last month.
According to him, the anti-corruption body's decision to venture into the investigation emanated from the complaints lodged by the ministries, departments, authorities and institutions to the government over double payments to committees' members.

The investigations are meant to find out the circumstances under which institutions paid money in the form of allowances to MPs whenever they visited them.
"The alleged extra money paid to MPs whenever members of the Parliamentary Standing Committees visit institutions is illegal because the Parliament pays for everything, including transport, accommodation and meals when the committees are at work," said the executive officer, adding:
"This problem did not start recently, it's a longstanding menace. It also created headache to the previous Parliaments," he added. Dr Thomas Kashilila has said, "It's true but I have no mandate to speak about investigations being done by PCCB or any other law enforcement organs." Contacted yesterday, the Chairman of the Parliamentary Standing Committee for Constitutional, Legal and Public Administration George Lubeleje said : "I am not aware of what you are talking about… After all I don't receive double payments because it is a criminal offence," he said.
Mohammed Missanga, Parliamentary Standing Committee for Infrastructure committee chairman also denied having any knowledge on the subject: "I don't' have such information…I think the Speaker or the Clerk of the National Assembly are the right people to talk about it because it is a Parliamentary affair." he said.
Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Chairman John Cheyo, on his part, too said he was not informed about the case. "To be frank I don't have any information about the matter but surely there is no MP who can demand money from any person or institution," he said. Other chairpersons of the Parliamentary Committees could not be reached yesterday to give their views on PCCB's move.


SOURCE: GUARDIAN ON SUNDAY

Bubu Ataka Kusema said:

Confirmed: PCCB Chief investigates lawmakers​

​

By Rodgers Luhwago ​

9th August 2009​

Dr Edward Hosea​

Declining to be named citing the sensitivity of the matter, the official said: “We started our investigation about a month ago after receiving instructions from the government…we are at the advance stage.”

SOURCE: GUARDIAN ON SUNDAY

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Hmmm! The same "serikali" can not issue similar instructions to order investigation of Papa fisadi RA who stole more than 200 bilions shilings from taxpayers.