How Can There Be Free-Will ?

[dmatemu]

"Mungu anajua utakachofanya na ambacho hutafanya,"

lakini maamuzi bado ni yako

Read it yourself.How does it sound ?

It sounds correct brother. Unaona kuna mkanganyiko hapo? Upi huo?

 

[dmatemu]

Mungu alimwambia kaini abadili mipango yake akagoma na akapatwa na mabaya. Mungu aliwaambia waninawi watubu, wakatubu na kusamehewa, mungu alimwambia Sedekia ajisalimishe kwa wakaldayo ili apone akagoma na kupatwa na mabaya. Ingekuwa ni unafiki kushauri watu hali ukijua wataitikiaje. Mungu anaweza panga future yetu lakini kaamua kutuacha tuwe na maamuzi yetu na kudeal na matokeo yake. Anajua kitakachotokea tukiamua kwa namna fulani lakini hapangi jinsi tutavyoamua.

Exactly[emoji106] [emoji106]

 

[dmatemu]

Mungu anajua consequences za maamuzi yetu, but his knowledge has nothing to do with our free will and eventually what we will chose to do.

Kwa mfano,

Mungu alijua kuwa Adam na Eva watakapokula tunda la mti wa katikati ya bustani, Hakika Watakufa. Wao kwa maamuzi yao ( ambayo Mungu hakuyaingilia) walikula na wakafa.

Sasa mkuu hebu uliza swali lako toka kwenye mfano huo

 

[Mk54]

Mungu anajua consequences za maamuzi yetu, but his knowledge has nothing to do with our free will and eventually what we will chose to do.

Kwa mfano,

Mungu alijua kuwa Adam na Eva watakapokula tunda la mti wa katikati ya bustani, Hakika Watakufa. Wao kwa maamuzi yao ( ambayo Mungu hakuyaingilia) walikula na wakafa.

Sasa mkuu hebu uliza swali lako toka kwenye mfano huo

Mungu alijua kuwa Adam na Eva watakapokula tunda la mti wa katikati ya bustani, Hakika Watakufa.


Wao kwa maamuzi yao


( ambayo Mungu hakuyaingilia)


walikula na wakafa.

---------------------------------------

Something is missing .Kuna kitu kimoja Sir,unashindwa kuelewa hapa na ninaona watu wengi sana wana zungumzia The same thing .Kwamba kwakuwa unaweza kufanya kitu kwa wakati huu bila ya kuzuiwa,kwahiyo hiyo ni Free will ,how ?mbona unasahau consequences za hiyo Free will ? Because you have to practice that Free Will under threat of punishment ,Is that Freedom of choice ? Wakati unajua kabisa kuwa you will be punished for that choice you have made ,hence you become slave of your own choices,sasa what kind of freedom are you talking about ,Mister ?

The other thing is ,If future is already known and determined,kwanza I want you to know nini maana ya future is already known .Literally ,mambo yote ambayo utapitia kwenye maisha yako hapa duniani,are already prescribed including your time on earth,that is ,for how long you will be on this physical mundane.Sasa my question is ,wakati unafanya mambo yako kwenye maisha yako,je unakuwa unachagua ama unakamilisha yale ambayo tayari ushapangiwa uyapitie ? Which is which ? You have to understand unaposema the future is already known ,that means kuna watu tayari washaandikiwa kuumwa Cancer ,Ufaqiri,and there is no way for them to escape that, where do you draw the line ?

 

[Red Giant]

"Mungu anaweza panga future yetu lakini kaamua kutuacha tuwe na maamuzi yetu"


"na kudeal na matokeo yake."


"Anajua kitakachotokea tukiamua kwa namna fulani lakini hapangi jinsi tutavyoamua."
---------------------------------------



—Point yako ya kwanza,Mungu anaweza panga au tayari ameshakupangia future yako?Kwasababu what I know is ,Future yako tayari imeshapangwa and you are walking through it to accomplish the mission.As in utazini mara 70 na wanawake 7 tafauti in your life time ,That is already known .So,where do you draw the line ?

—point yako ya pili,The Ultimate Truth is ,wewe haudeal na matokeo ya yale utakayoyafanya ,ni yeye ndiye atakae deal na matokeo juu ya matendo yako,whether to punish you or forgive you ,is up to him ,not you,Is that freedom of choice ?

I want you to be yourself,Mister.

"Yourself "

What is the difference between Free Will And The Knowledge Of Good And Evil ? The knowledge of good and evil ,does it make you free ?

Thanks !

Kwenye point ya kwanza ni kwamba Mungu hajapanga future ya watu hilo linategemea matendo na mipango yetu. Anaweza kutupangia future lakini ameamua kutuacha na free will ili tufurahie maisha. Angeweza kutuumba kama wanyama ambao huongozwa na silika/instincts. Jogoo huwika labda akiona mwanga unakaribia, watoto wa bata kufuata kitu cha kwanza kuona watotolewapo, watoto wa kasa kukumbilia majini mara watotolewapo na salmon kuhama maji chumvi na baridi. Sisi katuacha tupange vile future yetu itakuwa. Kwa hiyo naweza sema Mungu hajui wewe utazini na wanawake wangapi. Na siyo kwamba hawezi kujua bali amechagua hivyo ili tuwe na hiyo free will. Ila kwenye bible kuna visa alipanga future za watu fulani ili kutimiza malengo yake.

Hapo kwenye point ya pili ni kama mwizi anaambiwa ukiiba utafungwa ila usipoiba hutafungwa. Je tutasema huyo mwizi hana maamuzi kwasababu ameambiwa matokea/adhabu ya matendo yake?

Hapo kwenye kujua mema na mabaya na free will sijui unamaanisha nini. Ninachojua ujuzi wa mema na mabaya unatusaidia kwenye kufanya maamuzi maana kujua mema na mabaya ni kujua matokeo ya maamuzi yetu. Mema yanamatokeo mazuri na mabaya yanamatokeo mabaya. Wakristo tunaamini Mungu ametupa biblia ili itusaidie kutumia free will aliyotupa kwa busara na si kuiingilia.

 

[Mk54]

Mungu anajua consequences za maamuzi yetu, but his knowledge has nothing to do with our free will and eventually what we will chose to do.

Kwa mfano,

Mungu alijua kuwa Adam na Eva watakapokula tunda la mti wa katikati ya bustani, Hakika Watakufa. Wao kwa maamuzi yao ( ambayo Mungu hakuyaingilia) walikula na wakafa.

Sasa mkuu hebu uliza swali lako toka kwenye mfano huo

You have introduced something new ,Gentleman ,and you have asked me to say something about it .

Well ,kutokana na hiyo story ya Adam na Hawa ,I am trying to ignore myths ndani ya hiyo story ,sidhani kuwa inaukweli wa 100% .Kuna distortion nyingi sana kwenye hii story ,if you have the courage to think .

Kwanza kabisa haikuwa chagua la Adam na Hawa ,per se.

It was a set up .

Hey man ,look ,

Adam ,Hawa and the Serpent all feeding at the same trough ,whose idea was that ?

—Think Of It•

Whose work Serpent was doing into that peaceful place,The garden ?

You Must Love The Serpent As Long As You Enjoy The Life On Earth ,Why ?

Come With Me >>>


God Entity ;The Garden is yours ,you can eat every tree in the garden,except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil which is at the centre of the garden .Do not touch it,you will die .

—Now,what do you think ? I want you to Think and reason,don't just read ,Think of it .Do you know what is Negative Suggestion ? Try that to your kids ," you will kiss my ass".


Come With Me >>>


Serpent ;Hey ,Hawa,Mambo ,look at this fruit .

Hawa ;Looked the Fruit ,But ,No,We can't even touch it,we will die .

Serpent ;No ,you are not going to die,when you take food ,you don't die ,your eyes will be opened,trust me .

Hawa ;Figured on it ,and found the fruit is good for the body ,heart and mind .She takes the fruit and gave to Adam ,Adam didn't even ask ,they both ate.And from that "Choice" the reality was radically authentic,good and evil opened down ,here and there ,past present was clear ,the opposite works so well ,they knew the separation,the essence of who they truly were,sex parts became a " category " .There you are ,there I am ,there we are .

The problem is ,People think there was some kind of sin in the Garden,but if you look at the text clear ,no where it was called SIN ,in any scripture you ever read or recite ,never referred as SIN.

Sasa Nashangaa unaposema wao kwa maamuz yao ,how ? Haya kuwa maamuzi yao ,It was a set up ,it was meant to be,that is why he feed them in the same place with serpent ,they were not meant to stay there forever,Death was already prescribed for them and for both of us .

So you should always appreciate the Serpent ,he opened your eyes and mind .kama sio yeye to play that game
,usingekuwa on earth today ,true or false ? How would you blame the Serpent if you enjoyed the life on earth ,you should thank him right ? Unless you feel like you are offended being on earth.But the truth is ,he did great job for you to be here ,and no one want to leave this place ,we all pretend it is okay ,but it isn't.We love this physical mundane ,don't you ?

—Think Of It•

 

[tejateja]

Tatizo watu wengi katika haya masuala ya dini na mungu hawajui kuwa kuna hitaji elimu yani kuna watu wanakaa darasani kabisa kupata elimu. Ni tofauti na tunavyoyachukulia masuala mengine ya kidunia ambayo tunayapata mashuleni.

Huwa tunaelewa kuwa kuna mambo mengine ni magumu kumueleza mtu akakuelewa ikiwa hajapata msingi wa hicho unachotaka kukieleza ila kwenye masuala ya dini/ mungu ni tofauti kwa sababu unawezakuta mtu yeyote tu anaweza akataka umueleze jambo na aelewe bila kujari kama ana msingi hicho anachotaka kueleweshwa.

Lakini pia haya masuala ya kidunia huwa wengine wanaogopa kuhoji ikiwa hana elimu ya hilo jambo,mfano mtu ambaye hajasoma sayansi hawezi kuhoji ama kupinga masuala ya kisayansi wakati hata elimu sayansi hana,ila unaweza kukuta mtu hana elimu ya dini wala hajamsoma vizuri huyo mungu ila yupo humu na ana Uhuru wa kupinga hayo masuala.

Uhuru Jr. Usemayo sio sahihi. Dini/imani/Mungu. Haya mambo siyo kama sayansi. Na hayatumii akili kabisa.
Yesu alitembea juu ya maji..... Je, hapo unatumia akili katika kuamini hilo tendo la Yesu?
Dini/imani/Mungu mimi sidhani kama intelligence inanafasi yeyote ktk Hilo.

 

[tejateja]

Well ,so tunahitaji kuwa na abnormal brain ili tumuelewe? Kama ni hivyo kwanini tumekuwa na hizi brain ,if we can't understand G-d kwa kutumia hizi brain?

Interesting.

Mk54: don't let the mind use you. You've got to know how to use it. Train and sometimes put a stop to thinking, it's easy

 

[tejateja]

You contradict yourself. The fact that God knows the future has absolutely nothing to do with your freewill.

Ngoja nikupe mfano. Unajua Kabisa kwamba mwanao akishika moto utamdhuru, sasa hii inahusiana Nini na uamuzi wa mwanao kushika au kutoshika huo moto??

Mungu anajua utakachofanya na ambacho hutafanya, lakini maamuzi bado ni yako

God is within us.

 

[tejateja]

Mungu alimwambia kaini abadili mipango yake akagoma na akapatwa na mabaya. Mungu aliwaambia waninawi watubu, wakatubu na kusamehewa, mungu alimwambia Sedekia ajisalimishe kwa wakaldayo ili apone akagoma na kupatwa na mabaya. Ingekuwa ni unafiki kushauri watu hali ukijua wataitikiaje. Mungu anaweza panga future yetu lakini kaamua kutuacha tuwe na maamuzi yetu na kudeal na matokeo yake. Anajua kitakachotokea tukiamua kwa namna fulani lakini hapangi jinsi tutavyoamua.

Yote haya yanatokea ndani yako. God is within you.

 

[tejateja]

I know that God is within me, but I can't prove it. Cause there's nothing to prove. God is real

 

[UHURU JR]

Uhuru Jr. Usemayo sio sahihi. Dini/imani/Mungu. Haya mambo siyo kama sayansi. Na hayatumii akili kabisa.
Yesu alitembea juu ya maji..... Je, hapo unatumia akili katika kuamini hilo tendo la Yesu?
Dini/imani/Mungu mimi sidhani kama intelligence inanafasi yeyote ktk Hilo.

Kwanza hebu niambie umenielewaje?

 

[dmatemu]

Mkuu mi naona unakosea, umeongea mengi lakini ntajibu machache.

Umesema It was a setup. Even if it was a setup, so who do u trust God or Serpent?

What serpent did was to play with the free will of Eve and nothing more, serpent didn't chose for Eve to eat or not to, but Eve decided for herself. Free will gives us a chance to choose and do what we like which in turn has both the positive or negative outcomes. Kwa mfano kusingekuwa na free will, Eve angewezaje kula tunda sasa?

Mzazi wako akikuambia usipite njia hii Kuna vibaka watakukaba, amekuamulia ww kupita au kutopita? Ukiamua kupita ukakabwa, je ni yeye alipanga ww ukabwe?

The choices we are making have consequences (-ve, +ve or both)

Kwa mfano, let's say basi Mungu hajui chochote kuhusu future, will that changes the outcomes of our choices? Mungu hajui kwamba ukimpiga risasi mtu atakufa, sasa je hiyo inabadilisha the fact kwamba mtu ukimpiga risasi atakufa?

God in his majesty and power, knows everything and that doesn't change our choices and eventually the consequences that follow.

So u trust in the serpent? Mungu alisema wasile watakufa, wao wakala na WAKAFA. Serpent aliwaambia mkila mtakuwa kama Mungu, je walikua kama Mungu?? Which of the two outcomes came to pass??

 

[Shimba ya Buyenze]

Mkuu mi naona unakosea, umeongea mengi lakini ntajibu machache.

Umesema It was a setup. Even if it was a setup, so who do u trust God or Serpent?

What serpent did was to play with the free will of Eve and nothing more, serpent didn't chose for Eve to eat or not to, but Eve decided for herself. Free will gives us a chance to choose and do what we like which in turn has both the positive or negative outcomes. Kwa mfano kusingekuwa na free will, Eve angewezaje kula tunda sasa?

Mzazi wako akikuambia usipite njia hii Kuna vibaka watakukaba, amekuamulia ww kupita au kutopita? Ukiamua kupita ukakabwa, je ni yeye alipanga ww ukabwe?

The choices we are making have consequences (-ve, +ve or both)

Kwa mfano, let's say basi Mungu hajui chochote kuhusu future, will that changes the outcomes of our choices? Mungu hajui kwamba ukimpiga risasi mtu atakufa, sasa je hiyo inabadilisha the fact kwamba mtu ukimpiga risasi atakufa?

God in his majesty and power, knows everything and that doesn't change our choices and eventually the consequences that follow.

So u trust in the serpent? Mungu alisema wasile watakufa, wao wakala na WAKAFA. Serpent aliwaambia mkila mtakuwa kama Mungu, je walikua kama Mungu?? Which of the two outcomes came to pass??

Nani alimuumba serpent? Hata kama alikuwa malaika mkuu, aliyemuumba hakujua kuwa huko mbele ataasi, kuwa serpent na kutuletea matatizo yote haya?

Naamini katika Mungu na naamini kuwa His grand scheme siwezi kuielewa sawasawa kwa akili hizi za kibinadamu kwa sababu maswali mengine hayana majibu.

 

[dmatemu]

Nani alimuumba serpent? Hata kama alikuwa malaika mkuu, aliyemuumba hakujua kuwa huko mbele ataasi, kuwa serpent na kutuletea matatizo yote haya?

Naamini katika Mungu na naamini kuwa His grand scheme siwezi kuielewa sawasawa kwa akili hizi za kibinadamu kwa sababu maswali mengine hayana majibu.

Mungu kakuumba wewe pia, lakini bado unaasi. Uasi ni juu yako si ya Mungu. Pia serpent hakuumbwa kama serpent but He exercised his free will and rebelled against God (acc to the bible).

Remember, God created everything and behold it was very good.

 

[Shimba ya Buyenze]

Mungu kakuumba wewe pia, lakini bado unaasi. Uasi ni juu yako si ya Mungu. Pia serpent hakuumbwa kama serpent but He exercised his free will and rebelled against God (acc to the bible).

Remember, God created everything and behold it was very good.

Kwa hiyo Mungu Alipomuumba huyo malaika mkuu hakujua kuwa huko mbele ya safari atakuja kuasi na kuwa serpent? May be I am missing something. Unaweza kunielewesha pole pole na kwa kituo mkuu? Huwa naulizwa hili swali na huwa sina jibu la maana. Nahisi kama vile kuna kitu cha maana sana unataka kukiweka wazi halafu tena unasita. Funguka please ili tujifunze hasa sisi ambao hatujakomaa sawasawa kiimani. Ubarikiwe sana !

 

[H1N1]

Free-Will ,does it really make sense ?

How can there be Free Will if God has already decided in advance who gets hell and who gets heaven with no regard for actual conduct throughout their life time ,That is ,God knows what you are going to do before you do it.

Consider the following cartoon for insight,Futurama,"Godfellas" where Blender encounters God ,

Blenders;So do you know I am going to do something before I do it ?

God Entity; Yes.

Blender;what if I do something else ?

God Entity; Then I don't know that .

Well,this is very interesting.If future is already known,then it can't be changed,correct ? So why does God get angry about events when he already knows what is going to happen ? How are we free to determine or define our own destiny if the future is already known?

Religion tells us ,man is free to make deliberate decisions and that those actions are his responsibility.The interesting thing is
•God created man as fallible (Capable of making mistakes).

•God punishes man for being fallible .

•That we are free to choose.

•That we cannot exercise that choice except under threat of punishment ,Is that really freedom ? Isn't freedom at all .

Well ,some people argue that our freedom of choice isn't freedom of consequences ,our choice is its own punishment.

Get back to fallibility ,tendency to make mistakes or be wrong ,if we are unable to understand the basis of our contract with God ,how can punishment be just ?
Does God bear no responsibility for creating fallible or imperfect creatures ?
Does it make any sense that a perfect God created imperfect beings and wants imperfect beings to understand or consider another entity as perfect ? Not to change that ,I mean ,how can our imperfect selves even begin to define something as perfect ? Yet ,the perfect entity (God) punishes imperfect beings created by him for exercising imperfect choices that they make when they choose a path which is contrary to his inscrutable-will,what do you think ?

Brought scriptures through his imperfect beings in which we contradict ourselves finding its meanings and yet ,no one to tell us the truth,no one to tell us who is in true conclusion or false conclusion ,everyone pretends to know the truth,and when we die,we will be punished for the choices we have made on earth.
The question is ,how do we determine our imperfect mind is not misleading us ? Consider the following picture which proves that The Brain Can't Be Trusted.

View attachment 510361

What do you see ? It is an art,right ? How many eyes do you see? They are two ,right ? How many mouths ? It is just one ,right ? Do you really see that ? Put your mind right.

"Mind Right "

The Only Way To Know The Truth Is By Checking It Yourself.

"Yourself "

The Truth Is To Find What We Were Put On Earth To Do,And In Searching Of Our Purpose On Earth,We Should Never Believe Everything That Comes To Us,We Must Question The Reality Of Its Truth .

—Free-Will,Is It Myth Or Truth?
Think Of It•

Kuwepo kwa sifa za watu wa kwenda motoni na peponi ndiko kunathibitisha kuwepo Kwa utashi binafsi
Kwa kuwa sio Mungu anayeamua MTU aende motoni wala peponi kila MTU ni maamuzi yake juu ya maisha baada ya haya

 

[H1N1]

Tatizo watu wengi katika haya masuala ya dini na mungu hawajui kuwa kuna hitaji elimu yani kuna watu wanakaa darasani kabisa kupata elimu. Ni tofauti na tunavyoyachukulia masuala mengine ya kidunia ambayo tunayapata mashuleni.

Huwa tunaelewa kuwa kuna mambo mengine ni magumu kumueleza mtu akakuelewa ikiwa hajapata msingi wa hicho unachotaka kukieleza ila kwenye masuala ya dini/ mungu ni tofauti kwa sababu unawezakuta mtu yeyote tu anaweza akataka umueleze jambo na aelewe bila kujari kama ana msingi hicho anachotaka kueleweshwa.

Lakini pia haya masuala ya kidunia huwa wengine wanaogopa kuhoji ikiwa hana elimu ya hilo jambo,mfano mtu ambaye hajasoma sayansi hawezi kuhoji ama kupinga masuala ya kisayansi wakati hata elimu sayansi hana,ila unaweza kukuta mtu hana elimu ya dini wala hajamsoma vizuri huyo mungu ila yupo humu na ana Uhuru wa kupinga hayo masuala.

Wanaita illusion of understanding

 

[H1N1]

Hakuna atakayekujibu hili suala kwa undani kwa sababu ndanimwe kuna fundamental flaws kimantiki. Kwa akili ya kawaida, itafika mahali itakubidi hata uzisaili sifa kuu za Mungu na mpango wake mzima kuhusu ukombozi wa mwanadamu. Ni mojawapo ya masuala ambayo utaambiwa binadamu hatuwezi kumwelewa Mungu sawasawa na wanafalsafa wengi wamehangaika sana na suala hili bila kufikia muafaka.

Mimi naamini free will tunayo lakini ina kikomo na kimalimwengu sote tu watumwa wa nguvu ambazo hatuna uwezo wa kushindana nazo (mf. Our spiritual destiny). Ndiyo maana baadhi ya christian curts mf. Jehovah's Witnesses hufundisha kwamba hakuna hell kwa sababu Mungu yule yule Anayejua kila kitu, Asiye na ukomo na Aliyepo kila mahali hawezi kumuumba kiumbe dhaifu anayemjua kuanzia A - Z halafu tena aje amchome moto tena wa milele kwa udhaifu ambao kiundani Mungu mwenyewe ndiyo Ameuruhusu Mf. Hata kama shetani hapo mwanzo alikuwa malaika mkuu huko mbinguni, Mungu si Alijua kuwa atakuja kuasi na kutuletea hii shida ya dhambi tunayopambana nayo hapa duniani? Na bado Akamuumba tu...

Maswali haya ukiyauliza sana ndiyo mwanzo wa kufukuzwa makanisani na kuyafikiri sana aisee unaweza kujikuta unadhoofika kiimani. Pengine ndiyo maana tukaambiwa kuwa inatupasa kuwa kama watoto. Akili ya binadamu haiwezi kumwelewa Mungu katika ukamilifu na utakatifu wake. Kila mmoja na ashike sana alichonacho ili hata alicbonacho asije akanyang'anywa!

Hoja yenyeewe imekosa mantiki kwa kuwa ameijenga kwenye nadharia batili kuwa Mungu ndiye anayeamua MTU Fulani kwenda peponi na mwingine kwenda motoni.
Kitu ambacho ni uwongo kabisa
Hivyo hoja iliyojengwa kwenye msingi wa uwongo haiwezi kujibika pasipo kuondoa uwongo kwanza

 

[H1N1]

Mungu anajua mpaka maamuzi yako na matokeo yake kwa uhakika. Wakati kwa mfano wa mtoto ulioutoa mzazi hana hakika kama mtoto atashika moto au hata shika. Alicho na uhakika nacho ni matokeo ya kushika/kutokushika moto.

Na washawasha!

Unaweza kutuambia Mungu huyo unayemuongelea. Kujua kuwa Wewe utatenda kunahusianaje na kukulazimisha kutenda ?
Sasa kama Mungu unajua kwanini uhudishe ujuzi wake na lazima ya wewe kutenda ?