If our President has more than one wife: The question of human rights

[Mtwike]

Ahsante Sober, Once again HMV !

 

[LazyDog]

...Polygamy is selfish. Only a selfish man would want to have several women belonging to him alone, as wives. It is also primitive. It results from a primitive mindset that a man has to have many cows, children and wives.

Augustine Moshi: Are you trying to suggest that polygamy is a form of sexual abuse?

...Tabia Mbaya kuoa mke wa Pili?...acha uz.... na Genge lenu la TGNP...ni Tabia mbaya kwako, mafeminist wenzako na genge lenu la TGNP...kwetu sisi hio ni Moral Standard za Hali ya Juu na inafaa kuigwa!!!

Kitu gani kinamfanya mume afikie uamuzi wa kuongeza mke ? Nikipata jibu makini kwa swali hili nitakuwa na maswali mawili ya nyongeza. Ninavyojua mimi hakuna mila au dini inayolazimisha hali hiyo bali utashi binafsi.

Allow me Mag3,
Wanaosema hawapingi Raisi (au mwanamume) kuoa mke zaidi ya mmoja, this is why you should strongly object to that:

Anayeona mke wa pili anafanya hivyo kwa sababu kadhaa. Kubwa zaidi ni kutafuta ROMANCE. I would say "New Romance" to be more specific.
Mwanamke ataanzia wapi ili naye apate New Romance? Atoe wapi walau kisingizio cha "dini hainikatazi"?
It is no doubt that the most wonderful feeling in the World is to experience NEW LOVE.​

Ndugu zetu waislam, kwa yule ambaye yuko tayari kubadili fikra zake, azuie msemo huu usitoke kinywani mwake: "Dini imemruhusu" ...ni bora kusema "Dini haimkatazi". Ikiwa hujaona tofauti, soma hapa chini,

Kusema tuoe mke mmoja moja sio kupinga Uislamu. Uislamu unaruhusu kuoa mke mmoja. Tena unafundisha ikiwezekana tuoe mke mmoja tu!

 

[Interested Observer]

Mwalimu Moshi

Mimi nadhani hili swala linategemea mtizamo.

Hivi tunaposema moral standards, tunakuwa tunamanisha standards zipi? tunatumia morals zipi na za nani kama vigezo? Tunaposema "civilized world" tunakuwa tuna maana gani?

Yes, wenzangu hapa wanasema kwamba western standards should not be our benchmarks because we are Africans. Granted. LAKINI si ni sisi hawa hawa waafrika ambao tumekubali kusaini hizo human rights conventions? Kwa nini hatukukataa kwamba zinaenda kinyume na maadili yetu? Talk of hypocricy! Au tulikuwa hatujui tulitendalo wakati tunasaini?

Hebu nionyesheni ambapo TANZANIA tulikataa kwamba hizi human rights za wazungu hazitufai? Infact tumesaini madocuments yote bila hata reservations! Kusema kwamba JK ana wake wawili kwa hiyo ni vibaya, mi nadhani tunajicontradict wenyewe. tunapokubali standards za western countries kwa kusaini hayo matamko ya human rights na baadaye tunakataa kutekeleza yaliyomo kwa vile sisi sio wazungu nk..nadhani ni unafiki wa hali ya juu na UJINGA. Na wao wana haki kabisa ya kudemand accountability kutoka kwetu. Kwa hiyo kuwatukana TGNP au akina Kijo-Bisimba ni kuwaonea..maana wao wanahimiza watu watimize wajibu wao si zaidi ya hapo!

Ni kweli wazungu hawaamini katika ndoa ya mke zaidi ya mmoja. Sasa kama waafrika tunaamini katika hizo ndoa..kwa nini tulikubaliana nao in the first place? Au watu mnafikiri hiyo international community ni jina la mbege? HAPANA NI JINA LA MATAIFA YENYE NGUVU... KWA HIYO UKICHEZA WATAKUENDESHA TUU. JK kama rubani wetu ambaye anakimbia kila siku duniani akituingiza kwenye hiyo mikataba na matamko ya kimataifa kuuonyesha ulimwengu alivyo mstari wa mbele kulinda human rights..basi hana budi kukubaliana na matakwa ya hayo matamko....akijificha chini ya kapeti la uislamu au Uafrika..ni unafiki.


By the way msije mkashangaa Tanzania inasaign mkataba wa kulinda/kukubaliana na ushoga..harafu kesho eti Mashoga wanapigwa mawe ..kwamba vitendo vyao havikubaliki katika nchi yetu...well...mkinyimwa misaada ndo mtajua. Kama kitu hukitaki..say so and stand your ground! No shortcut!

Jamani langu ni hili: Waafrika tuache unafiki. The so called international community ni very dangerous. wao wanatake their rights seriously. Sasa kama nyinyi mnasaini tuu...then mjue kwamba iko siku yatawakuta. Kama hamjui muulizeni Bashir na mkasa wa ICC atawaambieni.

Brilliant analysis! Your theories will help most of us; you need to teach us patriotism, charisma etc. We need a new code of conduct which embarces Tanzanian priorities; and our judgements to define a Tanzanian destiny should not be religion. Masanja Bravo you made it, very well!

 

[Kinyambiss]

Interested Observer, wake up and smell the coffee. What do you think this is? lol... Its not the west. This is Tanzania. And here, more than 50% of the population (refer to my post juu) wanaafikiana na polygamy due to cultural and religious reasons. For that matter, your argument is merely a matter of opinion. And no government will EVER enact laws that oppress such a great number of people's social and religious rights (as long as its pseudo-democracy) like the one we have... Kama unataka kuperpertuate ur lilttle feminist utopia, I suggest you start with a Military coup and then u can impose any law you want. Hii argument ya sijui ooh!! wanawake wanakuwa oppressed! You my friend, have been the recipient of foul doctrine, most probably as a result ya 'umarekani' unataka kudisregard the rights of so many people to practice a relatively harmless norm. This reminds me of the actions, contrary to they international laws that they purportedly defend, of one state.. So on the world map u can guess who you are.

Ashakum si matusi lakini here the statement is " NEGRO PLEASE!" (in a non-masculine way) for i clearly know what you are so let me say this before you embark on another crusade about why I assumed ur a man.
i didnt, in fact to the contrary. This discussion is rather trivial at this juncture.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Kinyambisi anasema Watanzania wengi wanaafiki uoaji wa wake wengi. Have you surveyed them? Huu ni uzushi! Hata hivyo, kuna kosa la msingi hapa. Nikupe mfano: sehemu kubwa sana ya Watanzania inaamini uchawi. Does that make uchawi acceptable?

Kinyambisi errs more grievously when he asserts that a majority of Tanzanians practice polygamy. The majority of Tanzanians aren’t even married, so how could they possibly be practicing polygamy?

Contrary to Kinyambisi’s claim, JK is not “doing what majority of Tanzanians believe to be right”. If that were the case then he wouldn’t have needed to hide it from almost all Tanzanians. Anaficha kwa sababu anajua hakikubaliki.

Kinyambisi huyo huyo kaamua kusema polygamy is not a bad mport frm the past “because it is being practiced now in Bagamoyo and some other parts of our nation. Babu yangu alikuwa na wake 60. Lakini leo hii, wilaya yangu ya zamani (ya sasa, believe it or not, ni Bagamoyo), hukuti polygamists. Kwa sehemu kubwa ya Tanzania, ni wazee tu ndio utawakuta wana wake zaidi ya mmoja. Vijana wameacha. Kwa vijana wachache (eg JK) ambao bado kuona mwanga, basi it is a bad import from the past.

Mkengeufa anasema aliyeolewa hajalalamika kwa hivyo hakuna kitu hapa! Tunalalamika sisi tuliofichwa ukweli kwamba Rais ana wake wawili. Hujui kwamba Watanzania wakijua ana wake wawili hawatamchagua tena? Wataona kwamba anawatia aibu. Rais anayetumia wanawake kama chombo cha starehe ni mdhalilishaji wa kijinsia.

Masanja wants to know which moral standards we should be following. Moral laws are written in our hearts. Tanzania inapinga ukandamizaji wa kijinsia. JK mwenyewe ameteua wanawake wengi kushika nafasi za uongozi ili aonyeshe haki sawa kwa wote. Polygamy is contrary to generally accepted gender rights.

 

[Zungu Pule]

Who is the second wife to JK? her name? Anaishi wapi? Walioana lini?

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Who is the second wife to JK? her name? Anaishi wapi? Walioana lini?

Pole sana. Hutajua kwani ni siri. Imeonekana ni aibu kwa Rais kijana, tena mchangamfu na anayeonekana wa kisasa, kufahamika ana wake wawili.

 

[Mkandara]

Augustine,
Mkuu hizi habari za uchawi zinatoka wapi tena?... Watanzania wengi WANAAMINI Uchawi haina maana wana practice uchawi.. Kuamini kuwepo kwa uchawi haina maana kabisa kwamba unaukubali uchawi...Halafu ajabu KUAFIKI Polygamy umeuliza kama jamaa kesha fanya survey!..wewe umefanya kuhusiana na uchawi!

Kisha basi kama nimemuelewa vizuri Kinyambisi aliposema watanzania wengi wana practice Polygamy (tofauti na kuamini uchawi) ana maana kati ya hesabu ya watu waliofunga ndoa!... Mkuuu wangu vipi hivi tunaposema asilimia 80 ya watanzania walimchagua Kikwete urais ulifikiria ni ktk Population nzima au ni hesabu ya wale waliopiga kura!..

Mkuu nina hakika, ktk kila familia ya Kitanzania kuna m/watoto wa nje ya ndoa ya mke mmoja! kama sio wewe basi kaka yako ama mdogo wako kazaa nje.. Sasa swala linakuja ni uhalali wa huyo mtoto ambaye kazaliwa nje ya mke wa kwanza iwe kwa Kudhini ama ndoa..
Family value ya kiafrika hapa inatazama zaidi kujenga na kuimarisha familia moja na hasa pale watoto wanapochukuliwa kama Kizazi (Taifa) la kesho...
In a big picture, nadhani tusitazame sana mwanamke ambaye kesha olewa ili kuvuta hizi haki za binadamu ila tutazame haki ya mwanamke ambaye hakuolewa isipokuwa anatumiwa na mwanamme kama kimada.. Hawa ndio tuwatazame haki zao na watoto watakao zaliwa nje ya ndoa tutawasaidia vipi!..
Rights za mke wa kwanza zinatazamwa ndani ya ndoa na uzinifu ni kosa kubwa ambalo kwa jeuri ya sheria hizo hizo za haki za binadamu haina adhabu zaidi ya Talaka.. Sasa mimi sioni tofauti kubwa kati ya mwanamme mzinifu ambaye anamyima mkewe haki ya ndoa na huyo mke wa pili ambaye kwa kiasi fulani anawezeshwa kisheria kuwa na madaraka ndani ya nyumba ya Mume...

Masanja,
Mkuu hizo Human rights unazozungumzia kuwa tuliweka sahihi ni zipi?... Sidhani kaa swala la Polygamy ni swala la Umoja wa Mataifa kwani nina hakika hata nchi za Kiislaam sio tu zimeweka mikataba ya haki za binadamu bali pia ni member wa Umoja huo..European Convention wanaichukulia haki hii kama sheria na nadhani Uingereza wapo mbioni kukijadili kubadilisha ili iwe domestic law kutokana na Waislaam. Kwa hiyo mkuu naomba unifahamishe ni lini/wapi tumeweka mkataba kama huo kuhusiana na Polygamy..
Kumbuka tu mkuu wangu nimesema sana maneno haya.. Kila unapotaka kujenga strategy ya kitu chochote kile ni muhimu kuzingatia vitu viwili.. WATU na MAZINGIRA na hoja zangu kwa mapana zimekuwa zikigusia huko..
Ni kutokana na kuto practice Polygamy ktk familia zetu watu wengi wamezaa nje na wanazidi kuzaa nje.. mwenyewe umesema hesabu ya wanawake ni 2:1 wanaume kwa hiyo tazama issue hii ni haki ya mwanamke kuolewa kwanza!..Je, itawezekana vipi ikiwa haki ya mwanamke ni kuolewa hesabu hazipandi!... na ajabu umekwepa swali langu kuhusiana na wanawake ambao hawakubahatika kuolewa sijui unawapa haki gani?..
Ndio maana ktk Uislaam,dini yetu does not require polygamy, but merely permits it!..hivyo hivcyo napotazama nchi yetu na mila zake sioni sababu ya kuwepo sheria (as human right) isipokuwa hukatazwi!..

Ndio maana hata ktk dini nimepinga sana kuwepo kwa mahakama ya kadhi kwa sabau tayari watoto wa Kiislaam wameisha zaliwa nje ya ndoa, tayari ndoa zimekwisha fuingwa in practice of polygamy nje ya matakwa ya dini, zaidi zimetumika mila na desturi zetu..Hii mahakama ya Kadhi itaweza vipi kufanya kazi wakizingatia sheria za dini wakati asilimia kubwa ya ndoa Waislaam nchini zimefungwa mkekani kwa taratibu za kienyeji (traditional)!..

Interested Obsever,
Mkuu nashindwa kuwaondoa wazungu ktk maelezo yangu kwa sababu monogamy is of Christian origin...on to the morden application of law!....hakuna ubishi ktk hilo wala haina maana kuwa ni makosa ni jambo zuri sana isipokuwa tu pale tunapolitazama kama sheria..
Halafu kama sikosei Uingereza au nchi fulani Ulaya allows Polygamy between a man (English) akioa mwanamke ambaye ni foreign domicile..Kwa hiyo haki ni kwa mwanamke wa aina fulani toka sehemu fulani lakini sio wanawake wote wanastahili haki sawa..

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Mkandara,

Ni lazima tuongee kwa ufasaha humu. Kwa vingine hatutaelewana. Si ni wasomi hawa wana JF? Kama Kinyambisi anataka kuzungumzia sehemu kubwa ya wanandoa wa Tanzania basi asiseme ni sehemu kubwa ya Watanzania. Maana alitaka kusema kwamba kwa misingi ya demokrasia, ni lazima tuendelee kuwa na ndoa za wake wengi kwani majority ya Watanzani wanaafiki polygamy. Huo ni uzushi.

 

[Mkandara]

Augustine Moshi,
Unajua kuna wakati mtu anaweza kuuliza watu 100 na 99 wakikubali basi anachukulia hesabu ya kukubali kwa jumuiya nzima... Mkuu wangu utaweza wapi kukusanya watu wote uwaulize swali moja!.. Hata huko UN, Kikwete hutuwakilisha tena Watanzania millioni 40 na hakuulizwa mtu yeyote.
Kama nilivyosema hapo mwanzoni mimi sioni kabisa kosa la Polygamy KISHERIA ikiwa wahusika wamekubali... ni sawa na UTUMWA nilioufuata mimi huku Ulaya.. nimekuja mwenyewe bila minyororo na nimekubali utumwa. Tumekata tiketi wenyewe kuja huku na itakuwa ujinga kulilia haki ya binadamu ikiwa haihusiani na treatment ya hawa watu kwangu isipokuwa kwa nini wanaruhusiwa wazungu wengi kuliko sisi waafrika na kuomba sheria ya dunia nzima badala ya domestic law!..
Same with Polygamy ikiwa kuna matatizo ndani ya ndoa iliyotokana na polygamy basi hukumu itolewe kwa mhusika na ktk kesi hiyo tu sio kuadhibu watu wote..Ni sawa na kumlazimisha mmasai kuvaa suti mkuu wangu, hata kama msuli umepitwa na wakati.

 

[Insurgent]

Mkandara,

Ni lazima tuongee kwa ufasaha humu. Kwa vingine hatutaelewana. Si ni wasomi hawa wana JF? Kama Kinyambisi anataka kuzungumzia sehemu kubwa ya wanandoa wa Tanzania basi asiseme ni sehemu kubwa ya Watanzania. Maana alitaka kusema kwamba kwa misingi ya demokrasia, ni lazima tuendelee kuwa na ndoa za wake wengi kwani majority ya Watanzani wanaafiki polygamy. Huo ni uzushi.

Kuna watu wanafikiri thread hii inahusu president kuwa na wake wawili...wanakosea. Mapema sana nimeona hii ni thread inayoshambulia polygamy.

Sasa kujaribu kuassociate polygamy na human rights na kumwingiza rais ni njia ya kuiweka hii thread katika siasa. Ni wazi moderator anaona hili na kwa kuwa na yeye labda anapinga polygamy ameamua kuacha thread hii iendelee hapa.

Wandugu, kupinga polygamy kuendelee lakini kusitumike kisiasa. Marekani na mataifa ya ulaya wanafuata monogamy based on their main religion...Christinianity. Tanzania tumerithi utaratibu huu na kiprotokali bado huwa kunakuwa na first lady mmoja. Sasa ndugu Augustine labda uadvocate tubadilishe protokali yetu ili tuwe na first ladies mpaka wanne(kiislamu) na tuwe na wasiohesabika (kwa rais asiyekuwa na dini - atheist).

Kutumia rais katika kushambulia belief za dini fulani ni very cheap.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Insurgent kaandika:

Kuna watu wanafikiri thread hii inahusu president kuwa na wake wawili...wanakosea. Mapema sana nimeona hii ni thread inayoshambulia polygamy

Ni kweli hii thread inashambulia polygamy. Sasa kama Rais mwenyewe ni polygamist lazima ngumi ya kwanza itupwe kwake.

Sasa kujaribu kuassociate polygamy na human rights na kumwingiza rais ni njia ya kuiweka hii thread katika siasa. Ni wazi moderator anaona hili na kwa kuwa na yeye labda anapinga polygamy ameamua kuacha thread hii iendelee hapa.

Hii ni thread ya kisiasa moja kwa moja. Tumetoa wito kwamba taifa letu liwe na sheria inayokataza polygamy. Hilo si jambo la kisiasa? Unamwonea Moderator kwa vile ni mpole.

Marekani na mataifa ya ulaya wanafuata monogamy based on their main religion...Christinianity. Tanzania tumerithi utaratibu huu na kiprotokali bado huwa kunakuwa na first lady mmoja.

Tumerithi "utaratibu HUU"? Upi? Wa monogamy? Wa Christianity? Wa kuwa na First Lady mmoja? Kwa matumizi haya, First Lady ni mke wa Mkuu wa Nchi. Sasa tumerithije utaratibu wa kuwa na Mke wa Mkuu wa Nchi mmoja wakati wakuu wenyewe wanao wawili?

By the way, main religion ya Ulaya sasa ni no religion at all.

Kutumia rais katika kushambulia belief za dini fulani ni very cheap.

Napinga polygamy. Sipingi dini. Uislamu unaruhusu monogamy. Tutumie hiyo ruhusu ili tukomeshe udhalilishaji wa kijinsia wa kuoa wake wengi. Namshutumu Rais wetu kwani anashiriki huu ubaya. Na anafanya hivyo kwa kificho kwani anajua fika kwamba ni AIBU.

 

[Kinyambiss]

As long as the Quran says that Polygamy under the prescribed method is not udhalilishaji, then no muslim will disagreee. If they do, they disagree with the Quran and therefore are not Muslims. That was the point I used to derive the idea that 35% ya Watanzania ni waislam, sasa by that estimate, kusema kwamba ni mambo yakizamani kusupport polygamy basi tutakuwa waongo. And I also talked of the indeginous beliefs that sanction it. Wewe Moshi inaonekana hukuelewa. Who are you to demand rights of others ziwe abolished? That will never happen.

 

[Interested Observer]

Kyambiss;
Western Cultures, Islam, Christianity are all imports! I do not want to dwell on those, because I do not and will not accept Tanzania politics and Laws be dominated by such CULTURES which already to me are poisonous which have already poisoned your thinking! All the time I insisted in common issues on our values as Tanzanians, right of our children and the right of women. Augustine asked the simplest question on earth, which is taking time to be answered; why our president is hiding his own wife; is he ashamed of being called a polygamist; a apresident who practices polygamy? That woman (if is there) for sure likes to come out and show that she is a wife of the president of URT. That will be one of her human right unless you tell me JK had a different agreement with her. By hiding her it implies that even the president himself is ashamed of polygamy.

Coming to my points, polygamy should not be defined in a western/islam/christianity context. Do not forget that you're a Tanzanian who existed before those cultures were imported. So our laws and our polygamy discussions have to be centered in reference to non imported cultures.

You are giving examples and statistics which are non existend; and I am sure that if only we will have 70 percent of people who are thinking that way (religion rivally), to center your culture on an imported culture then we are bracing for another Lebanon, which a man like Nyerere knew, avoided it very well and was very careful on revising our constitution. Let us correct our ways of living by shaping ourselves with the modern thinking (hapa sijasema uzungu, but the right thing which we can do as Tanzanians). My fellow Tanzanians, in one of his own speech Nyerere asked himself, how that president at that time Managed his job; and he went on to say a president Job is very difficult. All our eyes (and our problems and everything) are on the president; how such a President can manage his job by having 2 to 4 wives? Let us call him a King (you will bring Mswati). We have grave problems; 90% of Tanzanian are drinking dirty water. And note: Shockingly; 80% of Dar Es Salaam residents have no clean drinking water. And 95% of Dar Es Salaam City has no proper sewerage plan. We do not have clear statistics of Tanzania, but if Dar is a representaive the 90% of Tanzanians are drinking dirty water.

Tanzania needs a President who have to work overtime; we cannot eat enough food; education is in shambles and few get proper education. No proper housing scheme. The medical facilities and our hospitals including health care system is in no place. We do not have any backbone industry, from Agriculture to Steel and Oil. And we call it a nation? And that nation has a President; and that president has time to have .............

At last, I see that JF have exposed me to understand our thinking, we have very vibrant young People who have the best points, and other veterans like Mkandara; Professor Augustino; bravo; this topic is a masterpiece; and should act to shape our next president and learders and our laws be based in our own culture. Let assemble all our cultural base from the 119 tribes we have and almagamate into our one Tanzania culture. On religion let everybody practice what they want. A government be as a government.

Kynmbiss
I mentioned Lebanon (above) you know why? Go and read their history and you will see where Tanzania is going if for sure we will follow your ideas! Give me your frank ideas.

 

[Interested Observer]

As long as the Quran says that Polygamy under the prescribed method is not udhalilishaji, then no muslim will disagreee. If they do, they disagree with the Quran and therefore are not Muslims. That was the point I used to derive the idea that 35% ya Watanzania ni waislam, sasa by that estimate, kusema kwamba ni mambo yakizamani kusupport polygamy basi tutakuwa waongo. And I also talked of the indeginous beliefs that sanction it. Wewe Moshi inaonekana hukuelewa. Who are you to demand rights of others ziwe abolished? That will never happen.

kinyambiss: Wewe ndiyo kichwa kigumu hapa:
We are not a country ruled by Isalmic Sharia; Quran is for Muslims, but also the muslims have to obey the law of the Land. We mentioned that this religion is everywhere not only in Tanzania or Africa. Islamic Sharia is used only in Total Islamic countries.

For your information Tanzanian have to obey Tanzanian Laws not Islamic Laws because Islam is not part of Tanzania Law unless Mahakama ya KADHI is established.

 

[Augustine Moshi]

Kinyambisi writes:

Wewe Moshi inaonekana hukuelewa. Who are you to demand rights of others ziwe abolished? That will never happen

So, you feel that you have the right to marry many wives? What about the right of women to have equal dignity with men? That right is incompatible with polygamy.

Kinyambisi anapenda kurudi rudi kwenye Uislamu. Hapa anadai kwa vile Uislamu unaruhusu wake wengi, basi polygamy will always be essential. Not so. Mbona Uislamu uko Ulaya na Marekani na polygamy ni kosa la jinai huko?

Kama ni lazima ujikite kwenye dini, basi let me meet you at that level and argue as follows: Uislamu unaruhusu kuoa mke mmoja. Ukristu hivyo hivyo. Hapa dini zinakutana, tufanye hivyo. Kwa upande mwingne, Uislamu unaruhusu vile vile kuoa wake wengi. Ukristu unakataza. Hapa dini zinapingana. So, monogamy is our common ground. Let us stand there.

 

[Kinyambiss]

Kinyambisi writes:

So, you feel that you have the right to marry many wives? What about the right of women to have equal dignity with men? That right is incompatible with polygamy.

Kinyambisi anapenda kurudi rudi kwenye Uislamu. Hapa anadai kwa vile Uislamu unaruhusu wake wengi, basi polygamy will always be essential. Not so. Mbona Uislamu uko Ulaya na Marekani na polygamy ni kosa la jinai huko?

Kama ni lazima ujikite kwenye dini, basi let me meet you at that level and argue as follows: Uislamu unaruhusu kuoa mke mmoja. Ukristu hivyo hivyo. Hapa dini zinakutana, tufanye hivyo. Kwa upande mwingne, Uislamu unaruhusu vile vile kuoa wake wengi. Ukristu unakataza. Hapa dini zinapingana. So, monogamy is our common ground. Let us stand there.

I suppose I understand your puported good intentions, however you have to know that this is not my personal view that I want to marry many wives, nor am I married to many women. What I am arguing is that, for the people who practice it, in Tanzania, both men and women, after all, women who are married under such contracts do so by choice and therefore are not really being forced into anything, at least not legally. My point is no Muslim will ever accept a situation where his or her rights are curtailed for the sake of following some western ideal of morality, regardless of whether or not they even want to exercise that right. In the mind of a Muslim, it is inconceivable that anything that curtails a provision of the Quran, under whatsoever the banner, can be moral. That is the point that I wish to highlight here. My aim is not to meet half way or be on any side. All I seek to do is to set clear the idea that no Muslim will give such concessions simply because they already have the rights in Tanzania. Non muslims, with the exception of highly objective western scholars who are few and far between, often fail to comprehend the stance which Islam takes. It is perceived by adherents as being timeless. It, like Judaism and Buddhism, but unlike western christianity, is not a dynamic faith. In 10,000 years, if there are still Muslims, they will have the same practices as they did in 660 AD. Understand that first then we can talk. In other words ndugu yangu, I sympathize because I understand just how difficult it is for u to understand my point here, hawa watu hawawezi kukubali kwasababu dini yao haikubali mabadiliko. Kwa mfano juzi juzi niliona statement kwamba the Catholica Church wanapinga death penalty, which is a good thing... lakini nikakumbuka the inquisition nikacheka. They redefine their doctrine according to society. Islam haina hiyo. It is today as its always been haibadiliki. Kwahiyo kuondoa haki ya kuoa wake up to wa4 itachukuliwa kama kupigavita uislam, which may not be the intention of the advocates for change, equality etc?! sijui unanisoma?!

Mfano wako kuhusu marekani, EU etc.. Mimi naishi in the EU, here Muslims consider themselves living in the Land of Infidels kwahiyo they dont demand too much na hawaoi more than one wife, in their mind sio kwao... so inabidi wavumilie... Tanzania is a different case, kwasababu walikuwepo before Tanzania was even Tanganyika. Tukiweza kukubaliana mpaka hapo then we can discuss steps forward.

 

[Pundit]

Mi nilishasema hapa, waruhusuni wanawake waolewe na wanaume wengi mchezo uishe.

 

[Kinyambiss]

kinyambiss: Wewe ndiyo kichwa kigumu hapa:
We are not a country ruled by Isalmic Sharia; Quran is for Muslims, but also the muslims have to obey the law of the Land. We mentioned that this religion is everywhere not only in Tanzania or Africa. Islamic Sharia is used only in Total Islamic countries.

For your information Tanzanian have to obey Tanzanian Laws not Islamic Laws because Islam is not part of Tanzania Law unless Mahakama ya KADHI is established.

Get ur facts straight. No where did I use the word sharia in my posts. Nilichosema nikwamba watu mawao yao yanafuata those verses in the Quran therefore to legislate against that would be wrong where they are of such a great number, 35% ya wananchi. Jamani, mimi sio kichwa kigumu, I understand ur lil' feminist utopia, perhaps I even sympathize at times... lakini nnchatoka ni watu mjue kuwa Tanzania sio marekani or something like that... Waislam hawawezi kuelewa hicho kitu mnachotaka kukisema.. Wewe umeargue kuwa ni practice yakizamani.. Mimi nakwambia in Islam hakuna zamani wala sasahivi.. to them the Quran is timeless so, no government can argue that hiyo practice imepitwa na wakati.. at least not in such a country at Tanzania ambapo kunawidespread practice hiyo until now. Kama tunatoa human rights blindly bila kuangalia society husika basi na Gay marriage nayo iruhusiwe, its competely fair... the only issue nikwamba nihaki ambayo haiendani na jamii kwa wakati huu...
Mbona hilo swala unalikataa.. Wewe unamindset inayokunyima kuwa objective nakuona hali kama ilivyo. Mimi sitoi my personal view on the matter. I just relate things as they are.

 

[Interested Observer]

Get ur facts straight. No where did I use the word sharia in my posts. Nilichosema nikwamba watu mawao yao yanafuata those verses in the Quran therefore to legislate against that would be wrong where they are of such a great number, 35% ya wananchi. Jamani, mimi sio kichwa kigumu, I understand ur lil' feminist utopia, perhaps I even sympathize at times... lakini nnchatoka ni watu mjue kuwa Tanzania sio marekani or something like that... Waislam hawawezi kuelewa hicho kitu mnachotaka kukisema.. Wewe umeargue kuwa ni practice yakizamani.. Mimi nakwambia in Islam hakuna zamani wala sasahivi.. to them the Quran is timeless so, no government can argue that hiyo practice imepitwa na wakati.. at least not in such a country at Tanzania ambapo kunawidespread practice hiyo until now. Kama tunatoa human rights blindly bila kuangalia society husika basi na Gay marriage nayo iruhusiwe, its competely fair... the only issue nikwamba nihaki ambayo haiendani na jamii kwa wakati huu...
Mbona hilo swala unalikataa.. Wewe unamindset inayokunyima kuwa objective nakuona hali kama ilivyo. Mimi sitoi my personal view on the matter. I just relate things as they are.

You all the time go back to the same issue I explained; My country is Tanzania, I am a Tanzanian. For you what comes first is Islam; for me what comes first is Tanzania, Tanzania is the Land where my mother father grad grand father were born and I am caling it my Land; and in the process of partition was called Tanganyika, and by the the process of Nationalism it is Tanzania. Therefore my land/my ancestors and my culture existed before Islam and Christianity, that is my point. For me all those (Islam and Christianity) are tools and poisons which have cripled our thinking. And in the same process it is true to say Islamic or chritian ideologies or beliefs (call them what) are the first tools which made us absolete! Kyanmbiss you are among the victims of cultural imperialism!