Inconvenience of Truth!!!

[kshaka]

I think if you learnt to read before passing judgement and invoking your fanatism you would make more rational arguments. Where did i mention Raila on the Hague issue?

Fanatism (sic)? wow, where do you get that from?? I'm the farthest thing from a fanatic for any politician but I can recognise bullshit when I see it...especially thinly veiled, ukabila based bullshit which forms the basis of this thread. You can lie to our TZ friends that this is about issues and they may believe you but I'm Kenyan, I see right through it! I don't see it as my job to defend RAO, he's a big boy and can take care of himself, what I am objecting to is this poisonous kind of tribalism masquerading as issue based politics when the people peddling it do not even address any of the issues facing Kenya...and parrot received opinions from their political masters irrespective of whether they are based on any facts or even truth.

so Kabaridi et al, repeating a lie a thousand times does not make it a truth!

 

[Kabaridi]

=> livefire,

You indeed have a right to possess a strong conviction about my alleged negative attitude towards raila, but as I suggested b4 you will never see where I have attacked him or any of his followers in this blog; if there is any hate, then you are free to invoke the 2001 Budapest convention, but if the reverse is the case then what is the fear of a majority coming in the open and dispelling such allegations. One who is clean will come in the open and rubbish such "make-believe" allegations.


Over time the PM ‘s chance and suitability for the presidency has been on a visible decline; one notable weakness which his advisers have failed miserably to warn his campaigners and campaigns always shredded with covert missions. The philosophical violence and arbitrary domineering behind his campaigns strategies and the unilateral acquittal of "one" of the Ocampo 6 is a grim reminder of what the nation underwent during the 2008 PEV. Campaigns characterized by arbitrary domineering have resurfaced once again when he was recently seeking to lure the RV kalenjin elders to "sign a deal" to "encumber" anyone else from approaching them even when it's unconstitutional.


Raila's "in-toning" on matters security, issues related to terrorism, and unity of Kenyans regardless of race, religion and ethnic background, is not what most statesmen can fathom. The reinvented campaigns "politics of ideals" rather than "tribal alliances" is not reflected through what he physically does and those he physically comes in contact with. Friends, watch out lest sub-consciously, the nation is led back to those harrowing kanu ndio baba na mama days.

What chances does he have of making it to the presidency, with declining nationwide support, no running mate though still scouting, with partisan media cooking success stories, backed up by the fact he will sacrifice party ideals of integrity to hook up with crooked politicians of the past that have driven past oligarchies in attempt to "consolidate votes". It will not be surprising if he makes a deal with kalonzo or mudavadi, seemingly a collation of fruits of the same tree will fall not far away from the tree. I agree Kibaki is worse when it comes to securing the interest of the hoi polloi, Mudavadi is vague on the youth agenda, kalonzo's basement political skills means he is only scrapping through for political survival rather than selling his agenda to the people. which leaves us with only one option to elect to parliament.

 

[Kabaridi]

Fanatism (sic)? wow, where do you get that from?? I'm the farthest thing from a fanatic for any politician but I can recognise bullshit when I see it...especially thinly veiled, ukabila based bullshit which forms the basis of this thread. You can lie to our TZ friends that this is about issues and they may believe you but I'm Kenyan, I see right through it! I don't see it as my job to defend RAO, he's a big boy and can take care of himself, what I am objecting to is this poisonous kind of tribalism masquerading as issue based politics when the people peddling it do not even address any of the issues facing Kenya...and parrot received opinions from their political masters irrespective of whether they are based on any facts or even truth.

so Kabaridi et al, repeating a lie a thousand times does not make it a truth!

Mkuu calm down we have co-existed on this blog for a long period, so there is no need to be burned when ur favorite candidate is corrected, and Dhuks is not in any way fanatically cheering on any-side. but just expressing opinions.

 

[Mekatilili]

If at all there is anyone that needs to calm down it is the original poster famous for the verbose statements that are painful to read and add nothing to the conversation. It is a clear sign of obsession. Let us engage constructively and not simply spew what most call BS.

When one is starting a thread a day or is better known for the long winded untruths they peddle in, it is clear who needs to reasses the direction the direction they are heading.

 

[kshaka]

Mkuu calm down we have co-existed on this blog for a long period, so there is no need to be burned when ur favorite candidate is corrected, and Dhuks is not in any way fanatically cheering on any-side. but just expressing opinions.

Boss, you don't know who my favourite candidate is...you'd be surprised, I assure you. Just because I object to these lies that are now being sold to us doesn't mean that I am "burned" (whatever that means). When all the forces of impunity gang up to demonise one man...it means they are running scared, the sad thing though is seeing ordinary Kenyans who were around when everything went down repeating lies which they surely know must be lies at the rest of us and acting surprised that anyone would question it...

 

[kshaka]

=> livefire,

You indeed have a right to possess a strong conviction about my alleged negative attitude towards raila, but as I suggested b4 you will never see where I have attacked him or any of his followers in this blog; if there is any hate, then you are free to invoke the 2001 Budapest convention, but if the reverse is the case then what is the fear of a majority coming in the open and dispelling such allegations. One who is clean will come in the open and rubbish such “make-believe” allegations.


Over time the PM ‘s chance and suitability for the presidency has been on a visible decline; one notable weakness which his advisers have failed miserably to warn his campaigners and campaigns always shredded with covert missions. The philosophical violence and arbitrary domineering behind his campaigns strategies and the unilateral acquittal of “one” of the Ocampo 6 is a grim reminder of what the nation underwent during the 2008 PEV. Campaigns characterized by arbitrary domineering have resurfaced once again when he was recently seeking to lure the RV kalenjin elders to "sign a deal" to "encumber" anyone else from approaching them even when it’s unconstitutional.


Raila's "in-toning" on matters security, issues related to terrorism, and unity of Kenyans regardless of race, religion and ethnic background, is not what most statesmen can fathom. The reinvented campaigns “politics of ideals” rather than “tribal alliances” is not reflected through what he physically does and those he physically comes in contact with. Friends, watch out lest sub-consciously, the nation is led back to those harrowing kanu ndio baba na mama days.

What chances does he have of making it to the presidency, with declining nationwide support, no running mate though still scouting, with partisan media cooking success stories, backed up by the fact he will sacrifice party ideals of integrity to hook up with crooked politicians of the past that have driven past oligarchies in attempt to "consolidate votes". It will not be surprising if he makes a deal with kalonzo or mudavadi, seemingly a collation of fruits of the same tree will fall not far away from the tree. I agree Kibaki is worse when it comes to securing the interest of the hoi polloi, Mudavadi is vague on the youth agenda, kalonzo's basement political skills means he is only scrapping through for political survival rather than selling his agenda to the people. which leaves us with only one option to elect to parliament.

Sorry but what does this even mean?

 

[livefire]

=> livefire,

You indeed have a right to possess a strong conviction about my alleged negative attitude towards raila, but as I suggested b4 you will never see where I have attacked him or any of his followers in this blog; if there is any hate, then you are free to invoke the 2001 Budapest convention, but if the reverse is the case then what is the fear of a majority coming in the open and dispelling such allegations. One who is clean will come in the open and rubbish such “make-believe” allegations.


Over time the PM ‘s chance and suitability for the presidency has been on a visible decline; one notable weakness which his advisers have failed miserably to warn his campaigners and campaigns always shredded with covert missions. The philosophical violence and arbitrary domineering behind his campaigns strategies and the unilateral acquittal of “one” of the Ocampo 6 is a grim reminder of what the nation underwent during the 2008 PEV. Campaigns characterized by arbitrary domineering have resurfaced once again when he was recently seeking to lure the RV kalenjin elders to "sign a deal" to "encumber" anyone else from approaching them even when it’s unconstitutional.


Raila's "in-toning" on matters security, issues related to terrorism, and unity of Kenyans regardless of race, religion and ethnic background, is not what most statesmen can fathom. The reinvented campaigns “politics of ideals” rather than “tribal alliances” is not reflected through what he physically does and those he physically comes in contact with. Friends, watch out lest sub-consciously, the nation is led back to those harrowing kanu ndio baba na mama days.

What chances does he have of making it to the presidency, with declining nationwide support, no running mate though still scouting, with partisan media cooking success stories, backed up by the fact he will sacrifice party ideals of integrity to hook up with crooked politicians of the past that have driven past oligarchies in attempt to "consolidate votes". It will not be surprising if he makes a deal with kalonzo or mudavadi, seemingly a collation of fruits of the same tree will fall not far away from the tree. I agree Kibaki is worse when it comes to securing the interest of the hoi polloi, Mudavadi is vague on the youth agenda, kalonzo's basement political skills means he is only scrapping through for political survival rather than selling his agenda to the people. which leaves us with only one option to elect to parliament.

hapa mkuu unadhamira gani? Inshort, what leaves you with one duo convict alliance option is wholly generalized to mean "us"? SIKUPATI kabisaaa, infact the whole excerpt!!!!
Wachana na mambo ya budapest convention, "this is more important & serious to our presidency n well being of Kenya", I say again, dont be vague lets go to hague.
Dhuks, Rao wanted the cases here but a select group of mafia politicians saw the hague process as the better option, do u blame him? The very politicians that u are religiously absolving of undermining the courts verily did that in the floor of the house not once but twice. Double standards wont sell. Selective amnesia is curable, see thru this with reason and not a lethargic hate for one Raila Odinga, hell no, am no luo buh he gets ma vote irrespective.

 

[livefire]

as pertains to security he has ma vote any day, he is an improvement over the old guard that employs a wait and see tactic even when some of his 42 loyal Lieutenants are cleansed....he doesnt speak when Eastleigh is burning, doesnt speak when Garrissa is in smoke, doesnt speak when some ethnic cleansing is being undertaken at the Tana Delta....list is endless. Some things need a speaking national figure to calm the state. Apana kuzubaa till Kenya is burning.
Conclusion: He will be a better president, a great and generous improvement over the incumbent president. Some of his shortcomings will be effectively advised and curtailed by the national security council e.g. MRC etc, etc fiasco.........

 

[Kabaridi]

Some of his shortcomings will be effectively advised and curtailed by the national security council e.g. MRC etc, etc fiasco.........

Raila's advice on security is needful given his capacity as a co-principle running govt there is no question of ifs or when. There is therefore no question that he will improve when he gets power. He already is executing that power. This period of assesment as a co-principle is the true indicator of whether he can lead or will he cry foul of being "frustrated" by the "executive" even to give the way forward.

As far as am convinced the once extreme fires at Tana delta are now extinguished thanks to swift and desicive action swung in by the same generals accorded the responsibilty of security. It's not advisable to mobilize a whole platoon to baragoi only to find out that the massacre was a by product of silly incitement by a paliamenterian yet insecurity left unchecked is not good. Massacre at baragoi is professionally being probed READ execution and conduct of massacre by the hooligans.

 

[Dhuks]

Let me first state that i will vote for neither raila nor the hague suspects but i find it rather curious for people to attack kabaridi's point of view on Rao and start labelling it bs and tribalism while at the same time calling the opponents the hague mafia. You hate or dont support rao u are tribalist while if you extend the same to the opponents you are judged differently. Guys give us a break

 

[kshaka]

Let me first state that i will vote for neither raila nor the hague suspects but i find it rather curious for people to attack kabaridi's point of view on Rao and start labelling it bs and tribalism while at the same time calling the opponents the hague mafia. You hate or dont support rao u are tribalist while if you extend the same to the opponents you are judged differently. Guys give us a break

Ok, I'm reading this on my phone so I could have missed it but, who's calling anyone "the Hague mafia"?

Number 2, who's said that anyone who doesn't support RAO is a tribalist (in fact, I was at pains to point out that its ok to not support RAO)?

Back to Kabaridi's point; do you honestly believe that there is a possibility that RAO is a secret radical Muslim communist who masterminded the 2007/2008 PEV which in turn was a Luo Muslim genocide against Christian and that RAO is trying to impose shariah on Kenyans? Do you think that that's a reasonable "point" for a Kenyan to make in Kenyan political debate or that these are claims based on principled opposition and a desire to unmask the "truth"? Is calling the above bs unreasonable (cos it seems that you think that it is a real issue)?

Do you think there's any moral equivalence between these claims against RAO and the tested in court accusations against Uhuruto?

 

[Dhuks]

^^
Just compare the times those posts were posted and when they were edited and you will have a clearer picture

 

[Kabaridi]

Let me first state that i will vote for neither raila nor the hague suspects but i find it rather curious for people to attack kabaridi's point of view on Rao and start labelling it bs and tribalism while at the same time calling the opponents the hague mafia. You hate or dont support rao u are tribalist while if you extend the same to the opponents you are judged differently. Guys give us a break

Dhuks thanks for elaborating the need for moderation when engaging in debates. It is funny we can agree with fellow kenyans here on different issues but not issuses that centre on aspiring presidential candidates. Referring to "moral equivalence", there is a lot hatred and vitriol that is being peddled against hague bound duo across the media and in fora, yet nobody has found the courage to raise them openly.

You were quite on point about RAO always quickly opting for external mediation which is a pointer that his candidacy is centred around the party chairman. Kenya has over 45 tribes and there is no probabilty that they will unanimously agree on issues surrounding governance with the tribe that "afflicts" a certain "tribe".

That being the case, RAO has lost faith in the "42 tribes". Elections is and has always been about the people and the electorate created under the new kenyan constitution and not collective bargaining from external power brokers. The will of the people will never be "snatched" away

 

[livefire]

^^
Just compare the times those posts were posted and when they were edited and you will have a clearer picture

if editing is done, its for spell checking purposes mostly. As said by someone else...this is a forum, if you peddle lies dont expect that we will watch as u keep the propaganda tank rolling. Who attacks Raila here daily? Why when the hague bound gets the same tone u start saying sijui selective hate, triballisr and bla bla. Nada, when i get the time al make the hague bound look as pretty. And i will edit this one too if it has errors.lol.

 

[livefire]

Dhuks thanks for elaborating the need for moderation when engaging in debates. It is funny we can agree with fellow kenyans here on different issues but not issuses that centre on aspiring presidential candidates. Referring to "moral equivalence", there is a lot hatred and vitriol that is being peddled against hague bound duo across the media and in fora, yet nobody has found the courage to raise them openly.

You were quite on point about RAO always quickly opting for external mediation which is a pointer that his candidacy is centred around the party chairman. Kenya has over 45 tribes and there is no probabilty that they will unanimously agree on issues surrounding governance with the tribe that "afflicts" a certain "tribe".

That being the case, RAO has lost faith in the "42 tribes". Elections is and has always been about the people and the electorate created under the new kenyan constitution and not collective bargaining from external power brokers. The will of the people will never be "snatched" away

now he has lost faith in 42 tribes, or kenyans have lost faith in him!!! Nada, am a living testimont.....have u wondered why he keeps leading in all opinion polls....and they dare say camp raila are triballists. Ever asked yourself why Raila advocated for external intervention in hague bound matters and sensitive security issues? Coz some tribal minions have triballised the justice system, security, finance docket all together and so on n so forth. If it were u in his shoes, what would you do? The guy ni mweupe kama pamba and justified to seek external help where its obvious the internal systems will circumvent honest justice delivery..

 

[livefire]

and about moderation, be sincere...what u write here is not in the fairest term moderated. We will team up on crucial Kenya vs Tz maneno coz we understand the dynamics of the hate, but allowing internal decision making paradigms to be dictated by one quater by all fairest terms is dillusional. Thats why we call it freedom of choice; ua preferred choice of a leader is simply not my type no matter how much we pull this discussion to and fro....

 

[kshaka]

^^
Just compare the times those posts were posted and when they were edited and you will have a clearer picture

ok...any of the rest deserve a response?

 

[Dhuks]

ok...any of the rest deserve a response?

Are u not the one who called attack on him thinly veiled ukabila?
Since we are already getting divided into camps based on each individuals view on RAO can we just agree to disagree and put this matter to rest?

 

[kshaka]

Are u not the one who called attack on him thinly veiled ukabila?
Since we are already getting divided into camps based on each individuals view on RAO can we just agree to disagree and put this matter to rest?

Yes, I think it is...have you actually watched/listened to the videos that he posted at the beginning? BTW, i didn't call ANY attack or disagreement with Raila ukabila, we are talking about this particular one produced here by one Kabaridi so don't make those kinds of assumptions please... I beg o!

P.S. I'm not in any camp, I just think that any Kenyan who posts videos alleging that the 2007/2008 PEV was a "Luo Muslim" (yes, really) genocide against Christians is peddling in ukabila, don't you? Furthermore the fact that he (and you, seemingly) expects us to accept that that is issue based political disagreement is an insult to our intelligence. I'm not even Luo but that is ridiculous!

back to Kabaridi's point again, do you think that the allegations have any legs? Do you think that my calling that particular narrative bs is unreasonable?

 

[Dhuks]

back to Kabaridi's point again, do you think that the allegations have any legs? Do you think that my calling that particular narrative bs is unreasonable?

At best i think they were far fetched.