Kumbe hata Mabepari huzikimbilia sera za kijamaa mambo yakienda kombo

[Kuhani]

... unajua tena kuna imani mbili hapa za mtaani...
1. Mtu ni UTU..
2. Mtu ni fedha!..
Kwa hiyo unaweza kujua kwa nini tuliukimbia Ujamaa.. Utu bila kitu mfukoni hutamaniki....

Swadakta. Ujamaa una utu, ubepari una fedha. Kama alivyosema Bubu AK kasema, kwamba kwenye ubepari kuna " kulipwa mshahara mkubwa."

Kwa hiyo yabidi mtu achague utu au fedha. Bubu nadhani amekimbilia kwa Mzee Brown (wadau wa Uingereza utawajua, wanapenda thread za Premier League). Sasa kama umechagua kukimbilia kwenye Ubepari utasemaje "kwa maoni yangu mazuri ya ujamaa ni mengi mno kuliko mazuri ya ubepari..." ?

Pointi yangu, Mkandara, ni kwamba unaweza kukosoa mfumo ambao unaishi ndani yake. Lakini kusema mfumo nilioukimbia ni bora kuliko mfumo nilioukimbilia ni kutaka kumtukana baniani mbaya wakati unajua utarudi kumuomba kiatu chake. Sorta like Mchungaji Mtikila na Rostam Aziz! Ndio maana nauliza ndugu zangu kama Bubu AK, kwamba mtu yeyote aliyekimbia the good 'ol socialist Tanzania kwenda "pasipo na utu" na "kwa makatili" wa kipebari, kilichowakimbiza kwa mabepari ni nini? Bubu AK anakwepa hilo swali.

 

[Pundit]

Hata tusidanganyane kwamba Tanzania tuna Ujamaa.

Ujamaa gani? Wa Richmond na IPTL? Wa Chukua Chako Mapema? Wa viongozi kutia pamba masikioni?

Leo hii kuna vijana wadogo tu, vijana wanaosoma kwa taabu huko vijijini na ku defy all odds, pamoja na kukosa umeme na access ya vitabu na "tuition" wanapata division one -kitu ambacho hata watu wengi wanaotoka katika privileged families za mijini hawapati- lakini vijana hawa wanaishia kwenda A Level shule za serikali ambazo hazina walimu wala vitabu.

Matokeo yake hawafiki popote kielimu, na wajanja wachache wanarithishana madaraka miaka nedna miaka rudi.The Karumes, Kawawas, Mwinyis, Makambas you name them. Our country is no longer socialist, tumeshaweka clesses.Hawa vijana hawawezi kupata chances walizopata baba zetu wengi za kusomeshwa elimu yenye reasonable quality kwa gharama ya serikali. Na hata mikopo ya elimu hamna.Na hata ikiwepo ni zero tu kwani walimu hamna.

Nchi za kijamaa zimeshindwa kwa sababu human nature haitaki ujamaa, hata mtoto mdogo asiyejua ABC anajua concept ya "ownership" ukimnyang'anya kitoy chake anaanza kupiga kelele kukililia.Haya mambo ya public ownership ni mazingaombwe ya Utopia iliyowashinda V.I Lenin, Karl Marks, Friedrich Engels,Juche, Mao tutaweza sie?

Asikudanganye mtu, tunahitaji system ya kidemokrasia. Uchumi unaendeshwa kutokana na machale ya wakati.

 

[Kuhani]

Hata tusidanganyane kwamba Tanzania tuna Ujamaa.

Ujamaa gani? Wa Richmond na IPTL? Wa Chukua Chako Mapema? Wa viongozi kutia pamba masikioni?

Leo hii kuna vijana wadogo tu, vijana wanaosoma kwa taabu huko vijijini na ku defy all odds, pamoja na kukosa umeme na access ya vitabu na "tuition" wanapata division one -kitu ambacho hata watu wengi wanaotoka katika privileged families za mijini hawapati- lakini vijana hawa wanaishia kwenda A Level shule za serikali ambazo hazina walimu wala vitabu.

Matokeo yake hawafiki popote kielimu, na wajanja wachache wanarithishana madaraka miaka nedna miaka rudi.The Karumes, Kawawas, Mwinyis, Makambas you name them. Our country is no longer socialist, tumeshaweka clesses.Hawa vijana hawawezi kupata chances walizopata baba zetu wengi za kusomeshwa elimu yenye reasonable quality kwa gharama ya serikali. Na hata mikopo ya elimu hamna.Na hata ikiwepo ni zero tu kwani walimu hamna.

Nchi za kijamaa zimeshindwa kwa sababu human nature haitaki ujamaa, hata mtoto mdogo asiyejua ABC anajua concept ya "ownership" ukimnyang'anya kitoy chake anaanza kupiga kelele kukililia.Haya mambo ya public ownership ni mazingaombwe ya Utopia iliyowashinda V.I Lenin, Karl Marks, Friedrich Engels,Juche, Mao tutaweza sie?

Asikudanganye mtu, tunahitaji system ya kidemokrasia. Uchumi unaendeshwa kutokana na machale ya wakati.

Perspicacious.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Msingi wa Ujamaa alivyouelewa Mwalimu siyo Umiliki (ownership) kama ilivyo katika Ubepari bali katika Usawa. Naamini katika new synthesis ya Ujamaa hivi viwili havihitaji kugongana kama alivyoona Karl Max na Lenin na si kama alivyoona Adam Smith au wanataaluma wengine wa magharibi ambao walijenga kwenye economic theory.

Kutokuelewa dhana hii ya kifalsafa ya "usawa" kama Mwalimu alivyoiona na siyo ile ya "self interest" na "maximization of profit" katika ubepari ni kutokumuelewa Mwalimu vilivyo.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

"Usawa" as in equality of opportunities?

 

[Mkandara]

Pundit,
Mkuu nadhani point hapa ni kwamba hakuna mtu anayetetea Ujamaa kama Ujamaa ktk Uchumi na wala hakuna mtu anayetetea Ubepari ktk mazingira ya Utu isipokuwa hizi ni nadharia mbili tofauti kabisa ambazo zina mapungufu yake...
Hatuwezi kulinganisha hata siku moja mazuri ya kuwa na mtoto wa kiume ama wa Kike kwa kupitia darubini moja isipokuwa kuna uwezekano kabisa wa kuwa na watoto wote wawili..Na matarajio ya mtu kuwa na mtoto wa kike/kiume kwa kwa kutazama sifa zao inawezakana kabisa usipate kitu toka kwa watoto hao..
Ujamaa una mazuri yake na mabaya yake, hivyo hivyo Ubepari..
Ni kweli kabisa mtoto ukimnyang'anya kitu chake atapiga kelele sana lakini akumbuke tu aliyemwezesha kuwa na kile kitu ni mzazi na mzazi anaweza kabisa kukifungia hicho ki-toy na kusema timeout ni wakati wa kusoma!..
Ndicho tunachokisifia kuhusiana na Ujamaa na pia unaweza kumwambia mtoto wako kuwa hatuchukui kitu chako ila tunakutaka ku share na watoto wenzako kwa sababu huwezi kuwa na toy zote za duniani, kesho mwenzako akiwa na toy unalolitaka mtaweza kushare pia.. Ubinafsi hauwezi kutuedeleza isipokuwa kuongeza matumizi ya ziada, vitu ambavyo sio muhimu uwe navyo vyote..
Just imagine, dunia ya leo uwe na PC kwa kila mtoto, nchi yenyewe hii Tanzania maskini hata redio ya mbao ndani ya nyumba ni utata..

 

[BAK]

Swadakta. Ujamaa una utu, ubepari una fedha. Kama alivyosema Bubu AK kasema, kwamba kwenye ubepari kuna " kulipwa mshahara mkubwa."

Kwa hiyo yabidi mtu achague utu au fedha. Bubu nadhani amekimbilia kwa Mzee Brown (wadau wa Uingereza utawajua, wanapenda thread za Premier League). Sasa kama umechagua kukimbilia kwenye Ubepari utasemaje "kwa maoni yangu mazuri ya ujamaa ni mengi mno kuliko mazuri ya ubepari..." ?

Pointi yangu, Mkandara, ni kwamba unaweza kukosoa mfumo ambao unaishi ndani yake. Lakini kusema mfumo nilioukimbia ni bora kuliko mfumo nilioukimbilia ni kutaka kumtukana baniani mbaya wakati unajua utarudi kumuomba kiatu chake. Sorta like Mchungaji Mtikila na Rostam Aziz! Ndio maana nauliza ndugu zangu kama Bubu AK, kwamba mtu yeyote aliyekimbia the good 'ol socialist Tanzania kwenda "pasipo na utu" na "kwa makatili" wa kipebari, kilichowakimbiza kwa mabepari ni nini? Bubu AK anakwepa hilo swali.

Sikukwepa hilo swali ninachokwambia ni kwamba hata kama unaishi katika nchi za kibeapari bado una haki ya kukosoa ubepari. Si ndiyo hao wanapita kutwambia tufungue masoko yetu ili bidhaa zao zipate kuingizwa na wakati huo huo bidhaa zetu hawaruhusu ziingie kwenye nchi zao? sasa biashara huru iko wapi hapo? huoni hapo kama ubepari ni unyama? Wakati wanatulazimisha sisi tufungue masoko yetu wao masoko yao bado wameyafunga ili bidhaa zetu zisiingie kwao.

Usiobweteke eti kwa kuwa unaishi nchi za kibepari basi sera zao zote ni nzuri, ingekuwa sera zao zote ni nzuri, wangeacha tu 'business as usual' iendelee bila kuingilia kati na kutumia fedha za walipa kodi ili kunusuru uchumi wa nchi.

Kama wewe kwa kuwa unaishi nchi za mabepari huoni la kukosoa katika sera zao, basi usitake kumlamzimisha kila mtu akafuata nyayo zako eti kwa kuwa tunaishi katika nchi hizo basi hatuna haki ya kukosoa.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

"Usawa" as in equality of opportunities?

like in dignity, equality, access, possibilities n.k kwamba "binadamu wote ni sawa".

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hivi hapa ishu ni nini? Kama alivyosema Mkandara kila mfumo una mazuri na mapungufu yake sasa kinachobishaniwa ni nini?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

like in dignity, equality, access, possibilities n.k kwamba "binadamu wote ni sawa".

Oh okay...sorta like "all men/ women are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"......sijawahi kukutana na mtu hata mmoja anayepinga haya....

 

[Mkandara]

Nyani MacCain,
Hapo kuu umesema, tatizo ni ktk kuwajibika kwetu... in reality inakuwaje wanawake hawapewi equal chances ktk utekelezaji na mgao ikiwa imani hii ipo kwa kila mtu?
Hapo ndipo tunapoanza kutofautiana na kuzisema tofauti zetu kama binadamu.

 

[Pundit]

"Usawa" as in equality of opportunities?

Nyani swala la "equality of opportunities", however your question stems, ni la msingi sana.

The fact kwamba, mtoto wa kimarekani wa kutoka Projects ana chance kubwa ya kuwa Harvard Professor (what's that black kid Harvard Professor with roots from the projects name?) / Multimillionaire rapper (insert name) / Multimillionaire Investor (Pursuit of Happyness) na kutengeneza mkwanja sawa au hata zaidi ya the established old moneyed born with a golden spoon in the mouth bluebloods wakati Tanzania tunakoelekea Wabenzi wataenda kwenye Rolls-Royce halafu wa baiskeli wataenda kwenye TZ11 inaondoa makali ya ubaya wa Capitalism.

The central rebuttal of Capitalism to those who claim it to be immoral is that Capitalism advocates the free market, in which everybody -supposedly, OK, nothing is perfect - has an equal -or relatively equal- shot.

Capitalists argue that Socialism encourage sleaze and inefficiency since the idea of public ownership does not rest responsibility with the individual -the root of the demise of our public corporations- they go on to argue that to attain maximum efficiency, private qwnership is required, and like the late Jommo Kenyatta so succintly if not eloquently summarized it all "Ukiona mutu analala, nyonya yeye". Kinda gore in a Darwinian manner, but even nature tells us of the competition for survival.

As much as it is unqualified to bundle a generalized claim that the socialists are lazy, inefficient and religiously utopian,while the Capitalists are greedy, industrious and immoral, there is a serious need to embrace neither ideology wholeheartedly but focus strongly on either in aspects of life.

There is no reason -indeed there is no contradiction- why one should not be a fiscal capitalist while maintaining a socialist outlook on life in matters social.And if one person can do this so can the state, for the state is but an almaganation of its citizenry. The entire idea behind the revision of the core ideas of Marxism/ Socialism and the movement of "Social Democrats" so popular in the Scandinavian countries (e.g., Swedish Social Democratic Party) and to some extent Germany rests on this reasoning.

It is such a pity that everything must be viewed in the prism of black and white. Democracy should have the last say.If the people of the country of "pursuit of happiness" should want to elect a communist government they should be able to, sadly they can't, so much for "pursuit of happiness" but thats a whole new thread.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Oh okay...sorta like "all men/ women are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"......sijawahi kukutana na mtu hata mmoja anayepinga haya....

well.. hujakutana nao haina maana hawapo! Miongoni mwao ni wao walioandika hilo kwenye Azimio lao la Uhuru! Wakati wanatangaza hivyo, some of them were owning slaves! So inawezekana definition ya Mwalimu ya "Binadamu wote ni sawa" is more encompassing kuliko ya kina Jefferson na wenzake.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

There is no reason -indeed there is no contradiction- why one should not be a fiscal capitalist while maintaining a socialist outlook on life in matters social.And if one person can do this so can the state, for the state is but an almaganation of its citizenry. The entire idea behind the revision of the core ideas of Marxism/ Socialism and the movement of "Social Democrats" so popular in the Scandinavian countries and to some extent Germany rests on this reasoning.

It is such a pity that everything must be viewed in the prism of black and white.

Pundit, what we see today in most parts of the world this is known as the "Third way"; so the socialist party of Spain na sehemu nyinyinge vimefanya a new synthesis ya ujamaa. Na ninaamini kuwa kwa Tanzania tulipo sasa ni kutafuta hii balance unayoizungumzia. Tatizo letu sisi tulipoamua kufuata ubepari tumefuata bila kukubali itikadi hiyo, kuinyambua kisomi na kuipatia balance inayostahili. Matokeo yake maadili (ethics) za biashara zinavunjwa hadi unaogopa, suala la kutafuta faida at whatever cost ni kubwa na pia n.k

Na cha kusikitisha ni kuwa wasomi wetu wameshindwa kuukosoa mfumo huu wa ubepari holela kwa kuogopa kuonekana wajamaa. Ndio maana wengine tunawakosa kweli watu kama kina Chachage ambao waliweza kuuchambua ubepari huu mambo leo.

 

[BAK]

Oh okay...sorta like "all men/ women are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"......sijawahi kukutana na mtu hata mmoja anayepinga haya....

Ni kweli kwamba kwa maneno hutakutana na mtu anayepinga hayo hata siku moja, lakini ikija kwenye utekelezaji hapo ndipo utaona wanageuza lugha ili kukidhi haja zao na ndiyo sababu kubwa ya tofauti zilizopo katika viwango vya maisha.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit, what we see today in most parts of the world this is known as the "Third way"; so the socialist party of Spain na sehemu nyinyinge vimefanya a new synthesis ya ujamaa. Na ninaamini kuwa kwa Tanzania tulipo sasa ni kutafuta hii balance unayoizungumzia. Tatizo letu sisi tulipoamua kufuata ubepari tumefuata bila kukubali itikadi hiyo, kuinyambua kisomi na kuipatia balance inayostahili. Matokeo yake maadili (ethics) za biashara zinavunjwa hadi unaogopa, suala la kutafuta faida at whatever cost ni kubwa na pia n.k

Na cha kusikitisha ni kuwa wasomi wetu wameshindwa kuukosoa mfumo huu wa ubepari holela kwa kuogopa kuonekana wajamaa. Ndio maana wengine tunawakosa kweli watu kama kina Chachage ambao waliweza kuuchambua ubepari huu mambo leo.

Mwanakijiji,

Nafikiri hiki (kukifanya CCM kuwa a Social Democratic Party) ndicho Kolimba alitaka kuwaambia CCM. Sadly usomi usomi unapigwa vita CCM na Kolimba alifariki kabla ya kusema aliyokuwa nayo moyoni.

 

[Mkandara]

Pundit,

The fact kwamba, mtoto wa kimarekani wa kutoka Projects ana chance kubwa ya kuwa Harvard Professor (what's that black kid Harvard Professor with roots from the projects name?) / Multimillionaire rapper (insert name) / Multimillionaire Investor (Pursuit of Happyness) na kutengeneza mkwanja sawa au hata zaidi ya the established old moneyed born with a golden spoon in the mouth bluebloods wakati Tanzania tunakoelekea Wabenzi wataenda kwenye Rolls-Royce halafu wa baiskeli wataenda kwenye TZ11 inaondoa makali ya ubaya wa Capitalism.

Ukweli ni kwamba matajiri wengi duniani hawana hata diploma acha hiyo degree.. Chances za kwenda Havard hazitokani na Ubepari..as a fact kama wakiacha milango wasi basi unaweza kuwaona Wachina na Warusi wengi Havard kuliko hata wazungu lakini bado mtu mweusi atakuwa wa mwisho iwe kwa uwezo wa KIFEDHA ama UTU...Ukweli utabakia kwamba huko Havard kati ya watoto 2,000 ni aslimia moja tu inaweza toka ktk Projects...

Vile vile ktk Ujamaa tumejifunza kwamba watoto wa wakubwa pia ndio pekee walioweza kufanikiwa na kuunda classes dhidi ya itikadi yenyewe...yet kuna uwezekano mkubwa wa mtoto wa masikini pia kujiunga na chuo kikuu cha hao watoto wa vigogoi..Na katika vyuo vyetu kati ya watoto 2,000 ni asilimia moja tu ya watoto wa vigogo..

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

well.. hujakutana nao haina maana hawapo! Miongoni mwao ni wao walioandika hilo kwenye Azimio lao la Uhuru! Wakati wanatangaza hivyo, some of them were owning slaves! So inawezekana definition ya Mwalimu ya "Binadamu wote ni sawa" is more encompassing kuliko ya kina Jefferson na wenzake.

Sawa inawezekana wapo wanaopinga kwani sijatembea dunia nzima na kuthibitisha kwamba hawapo. But so far, I haven't met a single person who opposes the concept. Pamoja na kwamba kina Jefferson walisema hivyo huku wengine kwa wakati huo huo wakimiliki watumwa, ukweli wa dhana hiyo unabaki pale pale. Walichobugi wao ni kutotenda walichohubiri au kuandika.

I also don't think there is a substantial difference between the American declaration of independence and Nyerere's idea of "usawa". Na sitashangaa kuwa hata Nyerere alikuwa influenced na maneno hayo ambayo nadhani aliwahi kuyaita "imperishable".

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Pamoja na kwamba kina Jefferson walisema hivyo huku wengine kwa wakati huo huo wakimiliki watumwa, ukweli wa dhana hiyo unabaki pale pale. Walichobugi wao ni kutotenda walichohubiri au kuandika.

Haya ni maneno mazito sana; Wakati Marekani inaundwa kama Taifa mwaka 1776 hawakutoka kwenda kujenga Taifa la watu walio sawa. Sisi (chini ya Mwalimu) tulikuwa na maono ya kwenda kujenga "Taifa la watu walio huru na sawa".

Tofauti kati ya Azimio hilo la Marekani na letu la Arusha ni kuwa sisi ya kwetu ilikuwa ni dira. Tulitaka tuwe na Taifa la namna gani na tukatoka kwenda kulijenga. We were and still remain the only country in Africa which had an articulated vision of what kind of nation ilitaka iwe na ikatoka kwenda kujaribu kulijenga.

Ndio maana mwanzoni baada ya uhuru sisi tulikuwa na kitu ambacho kinaitwa "kujenga Taifa" (Nation Building). Watu wengi wanachukuliaa kwa maana ya kulitumikia Taifa (National Service). The later came from the former.

Tulipopata uhuru hatukuwa na nchi au taifa. Tulikuwa na eneo ambalo liiko chini ya uangalizi (a territory). Hili linawezekana watu wasilielewe vizuri. Wajerumani walipochukua eneo la Afrika ya Mashariki katika uvamizi na kugawana kwa Afrika kwa 1885 kule Berling wao hawakujali ni nini wakaamua kugawana eneo la Afrika ya Mashariki kati yao Wafaransa, Wabelgini, na Wareno na Waingereza.

Kilichosimamia mgawanyo huo ni vitu viwili hasa kile cha "sphere of influence" na mwenye kuwahi kupata basi anachukua. Na hata baada ya Ujerumani kupoteza koloni (siyo nchi au taifa) Waingereza walipwa na Umoja wa Mataifa (then League of Nations) eneo hilo lililokuwa la Mjerumani likawa chini ya uangalizi wa Umoja wa Mataifa. Na hilo ndilo likadhaniwa kuwa litakuwa sehemu ya nchi mpya ya Tanganyika.

Ilikuwa ni hekima ya Nyerere na viongozi wengine wa OAU kuamua kuheshimu mipaka ya kikoloni kama msingi wa mataifa yao mapya licha ya ukweli kuwa mipaka hiyo haikuzingatia hali halisi ardhini. Matokeo yake ni jinsi makabila na jamii mbalimbali zilivyojikuta zikimegwa na kuwa sehemu ya taifa zaidi ya moja.

Hivyo inapokuja Disemba 9, 1961 Nyerere alichopokea hakikuwa nchi wala Taifa. Siyo kama Mandela alivyochukua Urais wa Afrika ya Kusini kwani tayari ilikuwa ni nchi. Alichopokea Mwalimu usiku ule wa kukumbukwa na mkusanyiko wa makabila na jamii mbalimbali za watu ambao waliunganishwa siyo na dhana, lengo, au mwelekeo mmoja; hapana bali waliounganishwa na maslahi ya wageni (wajerumani na Waingereza baada yao).

Na hapa ndio unaweza kuona ni kwa jinsi gani TANU chini ya Nyerere ilitumia muda mrefu sana kuunganisha nchi chini ya sera na itikani yenye kuvutia watu wengi zaidi na mwelekeo mmoja.

Sasa hapa tunajiuliza; Nyerere anapokuwa Waziri Mkuu na baadaye Rais:

a. Jukumu lake la kwanza lilipaswa kuwa nini?
b. Akiwa katika kupanga kutekeleza jukumu hilo anakutana na njaa ya 1962, yeye kama kiongozi jukumu lake la kwanza ni nini?
c. Wakati hako kataifa hakajafika mbali rafiki na mpambanaji mwingine Patrice Lumumba anauawa mashariki mwa Tanganyika na Congo inakuwa matatani, Nyerere jukumu lake la kwanza ni nini?
d. Kabla hajatulia yanatokea mapinduzi ya Zanzibar, haka ka nchi ka Tanganyika chini ya mwalimu jukumu lake la kwanza ni nini?
e. Kabla hawajakaa sawasawa Jeshi linaasi na kusababisha umwagikaji damu, jukumu la Rais wakati huo ni nini?
f. Wakati hayo yote yanaendelea vita baridi inakuwa imepamba moto duniani, bado nchi kadhaa zinazotuzunguka ziko katika ukoloni Msumbiji, Namibia, Zimbabwe n.k jukumu la Nyerere ni nini?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Haya ni maneno mazito sana; Wakati Marekani inaundwa kama Taifa mwaka 1776 hawakutoka kwenda kujenga Taifa la watu walio sawa. Sisi (chini ya Mwalimu) tulikuwa na maono ya kwenda kujenga "Taifa la watu walio huru na sawa".

Great...but don't you think perhaps we learned something from the Americans (in terms of what was wrong with their declaration) being that we gained independence nearly 200 years after it (the declaration) was written?