Mshana ukipona na hili la takwimu za udini we kiboko

Karata · Aug 29, 2012

Kiranga said:
Hapana mkuu, hatupo sawa. Wewe una oppose swali la dini, mimi nali support.

Exactly why hatupo sawa, this is a big distincion. Do not relegate it as a mere "but". This is the core question of the thread!

I can't quite understand this "Guilty until proven innocent" attitude.

Umeona mfano wangu wa juu hapo? Kwa nini serikali isipige marufuku kuendesha magari kwa sababu kuna ajali? This is a retrogressive argument.

Kama kuna watu watataka kutumia hizi data kwa ajili ya privilege, wakatalieni, wafanyieni expose, washughulikieni.

Kwa nini mnatega mtego wa panya unaokamata waliokusudiwa na wasiokusudiwa? Kwa nini mnawanyima academicians na researchers data muhimu kwa woga wa serikali kuogopa kivuli chake yenyewe?

Of course nothing resolves nothing automatically, it is against the laws of physics.

Ila, census data zitasaidia sana kupata a somewhat more reliable starting point ambayo hatuwezi kupiata sehemu yoyote nyingine in a manner that will even approach this level of fundamental comprehensive scope.

Tupo sawa mkuu ata naweza ongezea kuwa in the absence of any official data, various ethno-religious groups have made their own estimates and this practice is also to counter estimates from other practioners, refer the heading of the subject. The exercise has sometimes confused the religious picture of the tanzania population. Also in the presence of religion data, the students, scholars, media pundits (TBC) and policy makers would have some reliable numbers to report and offer informed critical analysis of Tanzanian's behaviors in the social, economic and political fields. But in the other hand religious groups will use it to lobby for their own institutions and promote greater separateness in our already vibrant and dangerously society.

Kiranga · Aug 29, 2012

Karata said:
Tupo sawa mkuu ata naweza ongezea kuwa in the absence of any official data, various ethno-religious groups have made their own estimates and this practice is also to counter estimates from other practioners, refer the heading of the subject. The exercise has sometimes confused the religious picture of the tanzania population. Also in the presence of religion data, the students, scholars, media pundits (TBC) and policy makers would have some reliable numbers to report and offer informed critical analysis of Tanzanian's behaviors in the social, economic and political fields. But in the other hand religious groups will use it to lobby for their own institutions and promote greater separateness in our already vibrant and dangerously society.

Kwa nini serikali isiache ukweli ujulikane ili hao scholars wanaotaka kufanya researches wapate hizo data, halafu tuone hao wanaotaka kutumia hizi data kwa madhumuni mabaya tuwaone? Serikali iwashughulikie?

Serikali haioni kwamba kwa kutotoa official figures imetoa mwanya kwa watu hawa hawa ku distort figures?

Shoot first, ask questions last..

Guilty until proven innocent....

Tanzanians do not know what's good for them, deny, deny, deny

In the name of national security.

A la Meremeta.

We should be past this stage.It is insulting to say that Tanzanians cannot be trusted with accurate figures because they will disintegrate based on religious faults.

Trust me, kama watu wanataka kuparaganyika kwa misingi ya dini, hata usipowapa figures za sensa, kutowapa hizo figures ndo kutakuwa chanzo cha mparaganyiko.

Serikali badala ya kufocus kwenye kuelimisha wananchi waondoikane na mawzo finyu ya udini, inataka kutatua tatizokwa njia isiyo sustainable ya kuficha ukweli.

Sophist · Sep 2, 2012

Kiranga said:
Kiranga said:

Kuna tatizo kubwa kutegemea figures za madhehebu kwa sababu hazina integrity ya level ya figures za sensa.

Kutumia ukuaji wa watu kwa sensa za nyuma ni guesswork zaidi kwa sababu watu wanabadili dini, na unapoongeza makadirio katika makadirio unazidi kupata inaccurate figures.

Njia rahisi kabisa ya ku settle this ni kuweka swali la dini katika sensa.

Click to expand...

Ndugu yangu unaonekana kuamini hisia zinazochagizwa na ushabiki wa dini badala ya science ya namba (statistics). Nakushauri ujibidishe kidogo kufahamu namna wakristo wanavyoweka kumbubumbu za vizazi na vifo vya waumini wake. Usisahau kuwa takwimu za Serikali za awali mara baada ya Tanganyika kupata uhuru zilkuwa backed up na kumbukumbu za wakristo, hasa wakatoliki, walutheri. Masuala ya kubadilisha dini, kufa na kuzaliwa yanachukuliwa kuwa na zeo total effect. kama hukusoma hisabati, statistics wala uchumi itakuwa vigumu kwako kushiriki hapa. Usisahau kuwa wakiristo wanatumiapesa nyingi kuandaa, kusomesha na kuajiri walaalam na weledi wa fani mbalimbali (siyo wahubiri wala washabiki) kwa ajili ya kujenga na kuendeleza institutions zao.
A scientifically reasoned arguement prevails.

Kiranga · Sep 3, 2012

Sophist said:
Ndugu yangu unaonekana kuamini hisia zinazochagizwa na ushabiki wa dini badala ya science ya namba (statistics). Nakushauri ujibidishe kidogo kufahamu namna wakristo wanavyoweka kumbubumbu za vizazi na vifo vya waumini wake. Usisahau kuwa takwimu za Serikali za awali mara baada ya Tanganyika kupata uhuru zilkuwa backed up na kumbukumbu za wakristo, hasa wakatoliki, walutheri. Masuala ya kubadilisha dini, kufa na kuzaliwa yanachukuliwa kuwa na zeo total effect. kama hukusoma hisabati, statistics wala uchumi itakuwa vigumu kwako kushiriki hapa. Usisahau kuwa wakiristo wanatumiapesa nyingi kuandaa, kusomesha na kuajiri walaalam na weledi wa fani mbalimbali (siyo wahubiri wala washabiki) kwa ajili ya kujenga na kuendeleza institutions zao.
A scientifically reasoned arguement prevails.

First of, you don't patronise the patroniser, or your patronising will be patronised.

Mkristo nani? Mbona unaongelea mkristo kama mtu fulani homogeneous wakati siku hizi hata matapeli wanaanzisha vikanisha vyao kwa kutafuta deal? Sasa hawa wakitaka ku inflate figures ili kupata misaada zaidi kwa wahisani wao sisi tutajuaje?

Si jambo la ajabu sana hili.

You are stuck kwenye takwimu za serikali zilizokuwa backed up na dini mara baada ya uhuru, katika karne hii ya leo? Kweli wewe unaweza kutaka kulinganisha hali ilivyokuwa siku zile na siku hizi halafu unategemea watu wakuchukulie seriously?

A scientifically reasoned argument would quickly note that there is no easy litmus test to determine who is an honest Christian and who is a Nigerian hoodlum cum bishop looking for ease of drug transfers through the religious persona, and therefore would not trust figures just because they are presented by some church.

There are too many churches and too many shady charecters for that to give an accurate figure.

Sophists are supposed to see past the surface, you are doing a disservice to that label.

BAK · Sep 3, 2012

...Nakubaliana nawe Mkuu....Sioni sababu yoyote ya maana ya kuzihesabu nyumba za ibada lakini wale wanaoingia katika nyumba hizo za ibada wasihesabiwe...ni kitu cha kustaajabisha sana. Serikali inadai hakuna takwimu sahihi za kujua idadi ya waumini wa dini mbali mbali nchini. Sensa ndio ingetumika ili kuondoa utata uliukwepo kuhusu hizi takwimu ambazo hazina ukweli sasa sijui kwa nini Serikali haikutaka kipengele cha dini kuwepo katika hayo madodoso ya sensa maana tungepata takwimu ambazo zingetupa picha ya asilimia ngapi ni wapagani, wakristo, waislamu na dini nyingine lakini sasa utata huu utaendelea kwa miaka mingine 10 au hata zaidi....Serikali kwenye hili kama ilivyo kwenye maamuzi yake mbali mbali kwa mara nyingine tena imechemsha kwa kiwango cha juu kabisa.

Kiranga said:
Kuna tatizo kubwa kutegemea figures za madhehebu kwa sababu hazina integrity ya level ya figures za sensa.

Kutumia ukuaji wa watu kwa sensa za nyuma ni guesswork zaidi kwa sababu watu wanabadili dini, na unapoongeza makadirio katika makadirio unazidi kupata inaccurate figures.

Njia rahisi kabisa ya ku settle this ni kuweka swali la dini katika sensa.

Kiranga · Sep 3, 2012

All excuses aside.

Mtu yeyote anayejali usomi na research akiangalia video iliyokuwa linked to katika post namba 38 ya thread hii atajua umuhimu wa swali la dini katika sensa.

Sophist · Sep 3, 2012

Kiranga said:
First of, you don't patronise the patroniser, or your patronising will be patronised.

Mkristo nani? Mbona unaongelea mkristo kama mtu fulani homogeneous wakati siku hizi hata matapeli wanaanzisha vikanisha vyao kwa kutafuta deal? Sasa hawa wakitaka ku inflate figures ili kupata misaada zaidi kwa wahisani wao sisi tutajuaje?
You are stuck kwenye takwimu za serikali zilizokuwa backed up na dini mara baada ya uhuru, katika karne hii ya leo? Kweli wewe unaweza kutaka kulinganisha hali ilivyokuwa siku zile na siku hizi halafu unategemea watu wakuchukulie seriously?

A scientifically reasoned argument would quickly note that there is no easy litmus test to determine who is an honest Christian and who is a Nigerian hoodlum cum bishop looking for ease of drug transfers through the religious persona, and therefore would not trust figures just because they are presented by some church.

There are too many churches and too many shady charecters for that to give an accurate figure.

Sophists are supposed to see past the surface, you are doing a disservice to that label.

Click to expand...

The Ponda view?

So the debate has changed course; catching fire,from analysis of interfaith institutions capability to document and publish credible population statistics to nixes and fixes of using religions to extort moneyfrom donors?

I understand the debate was originally notabout such illegalities as political, religious or economic counterfeit criminals that relish across Africa, Europe, Asia and America.

Hello, Nigerians are not alone in this; I advise that someone takes look into our own Tanzania political governance operatives? These are not the fake Nigerians clerics but our own political leaders.

JF is not a battle field but the Home of GreatThinkers so avoid trivialising issues just for the sake of short term trivial victory.

Kiranga · Sep 3, 2012

Sophist said:
Kiranga said:

First of, you don't patronise the patroniser, or your patronising will be patronised.

The Ponda view?

So the debate has changed course; catching fire,from analysis of interfaith institutions capability to document and publish credible population statistics to nixes and fixes of using religions to extort moneyfrom donors?

I understand the debate was originally notabout such illegalities as political, religious or economic counterfeit criminals that relish across Africa, Europe, Asia and America.

Hello, Nigerians are not alone in this; I advise that someone takes look into our own Tanzania political governance operatives? These are not the fake Nigerians clerics but our own political leaders.

JF is not a battle field but the Home of GreatThinkers so avoid trivialising issues just for the sake of short term trivial victory.

Click to expand...

First off, learn to quote properly so that when I quote you it does not appear as if I am quoting myself.

Second, you have noted that Nigerians are not alone but not addressed the question of data integrity as a result of that inevitable truism which makes my case that religious institutions cannot be relied upon to give data that will end up as being official and influence government policy.

Third, great thinkers do not call themselves great thinkers, they are called by others, a Sophist should know that, unless of course this Sophist is a run of the mill wannabee.

tanga kwetu · Sep 7, 2012

nina watoto wawili, mmoja yupo Loyola form II na mwingine yupo darasa la 5 IST malengo yangu minimum level ni Master Degree kwa pesa yangu. Jirani yangu na age mate wangu ana jumla ya watoto 7 hadi sasa katika wake watatu na idadi huenda ikaongezeka maradufu wanne wa mwanzo wameishia form 4. Hawa wawili kwa nini wasiwaongoze hao 7+? Tupo ki-quality zaidi wao ki-quantity zaidi....hiyo akili au matope?

Mshana ukipona na hili la takwimu za udini we kiboko

Karata

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Kiranga

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Sophist

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Kiranga

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BAK

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Kiranga

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Sophist

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Kiranga

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tanga kwetu

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