Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kero zake: Je, tuuvunje?

mag3 said:

Muungano wa Unguja na Pemba ulizaa Zanzibar na kukawa na serikali moja. Hata hivyo muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ukazaa Tanzania na serikali mbili, DUH

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Kwa ujuaji wako wa Historia nitajie ni lini Unguja na pemba ziliungana ?
kwa kukusaidia namna ilivopatikana UNGUJA,PEMBA na Mafya wana sayansi wanasema ni maporomoko makubwa ya maji ambayo yalitokana na mto Rufiji ambao sayansi inaueleza kuwa ulikuwa mto mkubwa kupita yote hapa duniani,weka kando hilo nipe jibu langu ? Sio mnatazama mabango ya sinema mkirudi mnajidai kueleza mchezo mzima !!! Inaonyesha hata hiyo Zanzibar huijui asili yake ,hivi ukiambiwa kama Mwanza ni sehemu ya Zanzibar utakubali wewe ?ndio nikasema hujaingia sinema ukaona mchezo umeona mabango tu .

Kaka mwiba , Elezea kilchotokea ZNZ , muwache huyo na ujuaji wake.

Ama ndio kama kawaida CCM imesema walikuwa na semina sijui ya kukuza uchumi na mambo kama hayo.

jokaKuu said:

..mafuta yakipatikana ktk eneo la ZNZ basi waachiwe 100%.

..yakipatikana ktk mkondo wa bahari tunao-share nao basi iwe 50/50.

..mafuta yakichimbwa, na ZNZ ikiibuka kiuchumi, basi Wabongo ndiyo tutapewa priority kwenda kubeba box, kupiga deki, na kusafisha barabara.

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Kuchimba mafuta kuna ufundi na kuna uwizi unaweza kueka mitambo ya kuchimbia mafuta Tanga na ukayabukua mafuta ya Pemba ,wanasema ndiko historia ya mirija iliko anzia.

Da Ru said:

Kaka mwiba , Elezea kilchotokea ZNZ , muwache huyo na ujuaji wake.

Ama ndio kama kawaida CCM imesema walikuwa na semina sijui ya kukuza uchumi na mambo kama hayo.

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Vyanzo vya habari vimegwaya wameekewa tape recorder ,mpaka sasa ni taarabu tupu.

Mwiba said:

Kwa ujuaji wako wa Historia nitajie ni lini Unguja na pemba ziliungana ?
kwa kukusaidia namna ilivopatikana UNGUJA,PEMBA na Mafya wana sayansi wanasema ni maporomoko makubwa ya maji ambayo yalitokana na mto Rufiji ambao sayansi inaueleza kuwa ulikuwa mto mkubwa kupita yote hapa duniani,weka kando hilo nipe jibu langu ? Sio mnatazama mabango ya sinema mkirudi mnajidai kueleza mchezo mzima !!! Inaonyesha hata hiyo Zanzibar huijui asili yake ,hivi ukiambiwa kama Mwanza ni sehemu ya Zanzibar utakubali wewe ?ndio nikasema hujaingia sinema ukaona mchezo umeona mabango tu .

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Mwiba,

Hiyo ilikuwa kama "time out" tu katikati ya mipasho wala isikutoe jasho - it was with a light touch lol....

Hata hivyo historia naijua vizuri kuliko unavyofikiria kwa sababu wakati wa mapinduzi ya Zanzibar tayari nilikuwa sekondari. Huo ni mjadala unaohitaji mada yake peke yake.

Inaonekana kama wajumbe walizibwa midomo baada ya kutoka, hiyo ni dalili lakini ya kuwa kilchozungumzwa ndani ya AFISI KUU kilikuwa ni cha mvutano , maana kwa sifa zo wengekuwa wameshatangaza.

Zanzibar wakitaka warudishiwe nchi yao na kwa maana hiyo Muungano uvunjike, je wametafakari vyema yale yatakayotokea endapo Muungano huo watauvunja wao?

Nyerere alijua fika kuwa Karume hakuwa na uwezo wa kutambua undani wa athari ya makubaliano aliyoandikiwa na Kambarage. Maana mkataba wote umeandikwa na Nyerere na wanasharia wake yeye. Ukisoma aliyoyaelezea Dorado, Mwanasharia Mkuu wa Zanzibar wa wakati huo, na vipi alivyotolewa nje ya mikutano ya kuzungumzia mkataba wa muungano, utalia machozi ya damu kwa vile Kambarage alivyocheza dama tokea awali la kuinyima Zanzibar haki yake ya kushauriana na wanasharia wake ili iwe kuimeza Zanzibar ni jambo rakhisi baadaye. Kwahivyo, ghilba kubwa ilipitika katika kuandika huo mkataba wa muungano. Hii pekee inatosha kuufanya mkataba "null and void" Katika mahkama yenye kuamua haki sawasawa. Na mahkama kama hiyo haipo Tanganyika. Ongeza la pili, kuwa wananchi hawakushauriwa kabisa kukhusu huo mkataba wa muungano. Kuna na sababu nyinginezo. Lakini yote haya ni mazungumzo baada ya khabari. La muhimu ni kuwa Wazanzibari wametokana na ukoloni wa Kiingereza, wametumbukizwa katika ukoloni wa Kitanganyika usiowaonea haya wala huruma. Hiyo ndiyo sifa kubwa ya ukoloni popote duniani. Suala muhimu kuliko yote ni: nini la kufanywa? Kuhojiana na mkataba wa muungano ni kazi ya bure, haitowafikisha Wazanzibari popote pa maana. Wahusika wa Kitanganyika wanaelewa vizuri sana kuwa wataweza kuwapiga munda Wazanzibari tena na tena wakiifuata njia hiyo kama walivyocheza shere katika "muwafaka." Na kutuletea leo suala hilo la kuwa Zanzibar ni nchi au si nchi linatokana na kujiamini vizuri sana kuwa watawapiga chenga kubwa Wazanzibari mpaka watahayari. Cha kufanywa ni kitu kimoja tu: Wazanzibari kudai uhuru wao. Iwapo Muingereza na mbinu na khila na nguvu zake zote alishindwa kwa kero la Wazanzibari wa wakati huo na mwishowe akawa hana budi ila kutoa uhuru akitaka asitake, hivyo kweli watawala wa Dodoma watapiga chenga na hilo pia? Wala haitaki Wazanzibari wote wadai hilo kwa sautu moja. Hata katika wakati huo wako waliosema "uhuru zuwiya" na uhuru haukuzuwilika kero lilipozidi. Ni kweli kabisakabisa kuwa watafanya kila vitimbi vya kuwatumilia vitimbakwiri kuwazuga kwa mengi ili kuwagawa Wazanzibari, lakini ikishaanza kupaa sauti ya kudai uhuru na kuonesha vipi ubeberu wa Kidodoma unavyoathiri hali na maisha ya Wazanzibari, basi huo ndio mwanzo wa mwisho wa kutawaliwa kimabavu. Jinginelo ni kupotezeana wakati bila faida. Baada ya uhuru kamili, kukifanywa kura ya maoni iwapo Wazanzibari na Watanganyika pia, wanataka kuingia tena katika muungano, kwa kushauriana na watu wao kidemokrasia na kwa kushauriana na mawakili wa sawasawa, hayo ni mengine. Lakini, kujadili kifungu gani cha mkataba wa muungano kinawanyonya na kuwafusa Wazanzibari viabaya sana na kujaribu kukirakibisha, hiyo ni kazi ya bure. Mkataba wote ni wa haramu na wa dhulma tupu. Wala mwingine hauwezi kufanyika iwapo Zanzibar si nchi huru kwanza. Pasiposikika makelele ya kudai uhuru kamili, basi tuendelee na kucheza kibati na msewe kwa vibatari. Watawala wanategemea sana kuwa kila muda ukipita na kila wakiidhibiti hali ya nchi, basi utafika wakati Wazanzibari watajisahaulia wao ni nani na hapo kweli itakuwa Zanzzibar si nchi hata katika bongo za Wazanzibari wenyewe. Wao wanapanga njawa zao, na Mola Mkwasi anapanga vyake. Hakuna la ajabu. Usisahau kuwa kila mmoja wetu atakuja kuhojiwa na Mola Subhana waTaala aliyoyatenda na asiyoyatenda na aliyoyanena au aliponyamaza kimya alipoona dhulma ikitendwa au kutoizuwia kwa uwezo wake wote alipokuwa yuhai Duniani, na kuwa kuna Pepo na Moto. Kupigania haqi tulipokuwa tuhai ni moja katika thawabu kubwa na kupigania batil ni njia ya kwenda motoni.

Kuna maelezo kwamba Muungano wa Zanzibar na Tanganyika ulikua mpango wa Uingereza na Marekani kwa kumshawishi Mwalimu Nyerere aungane na Zanzibar. Hii itasaidia Zanzibar kuwa na maamuzi ya kuwa karibu na nchi za mashariki (hususan China kwa wakati huo).

Na ukitizama hamna tena mambo ya mashariki na magharibi; Marekani inatafuta njia ya kuingia Zanzibar.

Vipi wanafanya: kuwa karibu na Kikwete, kwa kumpatia misaada mikubwa mikubwa, kumfanya rafiki yao ili waweze kushauriana nae hata katika masuala yetu ya ndani!

Kisiasa bara wanateseka kwa kuwepo kwa Muungano - hii huchangia hata katika maamuzi ya kiuchumi na maendeleo ya Bara.

Ushawishi mdogo tu unahitajika kwa kutumia CIA (labda) kwamba visiwa vinazorotesha ua mzigo kwa maendeleo ya bara.

Next tutakachokiona muungano unakufa - marekani inaingia zanzibar kwa kasi kubwa sana!

Nyerere na ushawishi wa Marekani wapi na wapi? Kama alitaka Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziungane ni kwa sababu nyingine lakini si kwa ushawishi wa Wakoloni. Mmarekani akitaka anaweza kuingia Zanzibar hata bila ya Muungano kuvunjika. Bado yatupasa tujiulize, Muungano ukivunjika atakayefaidika ama atakayepata hasara ni nani?

Bibi Ntilie said:

Nyerere na ushawishi wa Marekani wapi na wapi? Kama alitaka Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziungane ni kwa sababu nyingine lakini si kwa ushawishi wa Wakoloni. Mmarekani akitaka anaweza kuingia Zanzibar hata bila ya Muungano kuvunjika. Bado yatupasa tujiulize, Muungano ukivunjika atakayefaidika ama atakayepata hasara ni nani?

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http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,875803-1,00.html (Angalia hii aricle kwenye gazeti la Time.)

US government under President Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969) accorded Zanzibar a top priority in the US foreign policy, next to Vietnam and Cuba. William Attwood, the then US ambassador in Kenya said that "the Western powers prepared a contingency plan in case the Union would fail...and (after the union), the laws of Tanganyika would become supreme to round up (Muslim) radicals in Zanzibar." Also the US Secretary of State, Dean Rusk appealed that "it is essential for Nyerere to be given the maximum support from the West.

Zanzibar ilikua inaonekana tatizo kwa usalama wa Tanganyika na Africa - Hii na ndio sababu ya Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar.

Sehemu zilizo unganishwa ni utakuta:

Mambo ya Nchi za nje
Elimu ya Juu
Ulinzi na Usalama

Lengo ni kuzuia direct access of USSR and China to Zanzibar - and Zanzibar also kupeleka vijana wake ambao wengi wao walikua tayari wamepata taaluma kutoka hizo nchi!

Zaidi juu ya Muungano kutoka katika gazeti la Rai

http://www.newhabari.com/rai/habari.php?id=657&section=makala

mpaka kieleweke said:

Nikiwa nasoma nimekutana na comment hii pahala, "kwa hivyo mzozo mkubwa unaoleta uhasama na kupatilizana kati ya pande mbili za muungano unatokana na jinsi ya muungano huu unavyoendeshwa,ambapo hatamu za dola ya jamhuri ya muungano zinamilikiwa na Tanganyika na kwamba zanzibar ni wabembezi tu.Maana waziri wa kilimo wa tanganyika huzungumza na nchi za nje kama kwamba yeye ni waziri wa muungano wakati ukweli yeye siye,kama alivyo siye yule waziri wa kilimo wa zanzibar".

Tafakari maneno haya utaona nini kinaweza kutokea huko mbeleni kama viongozi wasipokuwa tayari kufanya kazi nzito na ngumu juu ya kuunusuru huu muungano.

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Naungana na mawanzo yake kwani yako sahihi. Utatuzi wa tatizo hili ni aidha kuwaachia Zanzibar uhuru wa kuwasiliana na Mataifa ya nje bila ya kubanwabanwa. Kila upande, Tanganyika kupitia Tanzania kama ilivyo sasa na Zanzibar kivyake ziinge mitini kutafuta maendeleo ya kiuchumi. Njia ya pili ni kuundwa kwa serikali tatu kama mchakato wa G55.

DAR si LAMU said:

..bila muungano, zanzibar ni nchi ya cuf a.k.a waarabu!

..nyi kuweni watukutu, mtakuwa wana wapotevu siku si nyingi.

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Nafikiri roho za kitumwa hizo kwani watumwa walikuwa baina ya waarabu na waafrika tu hata miongoni mwetu waafrika kwa waafrika. Asili zetu tunazibeba bila kujitambua. Lakini ni jambo la kuaibisha iwapo wakati huu tulionao tunajadili mambo hayo

Bibi Ntilie said:

Zanzibar wakitaka warudishiwe nchi yao na kwa maana hiyo Muungano uvunjike, je wametafakari vyema yale yatakayotokea endapo Muungano huo watauvunja wao?

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Kipi kitatokea ambacho hakijawatokea Wazanzibari katika Muungano? Kukaa kiza wameshakaa zaidi ya mwezi na ikitokea hivyo umeme utapatikana baada ya wiki tu. Je watauliwa mbona 2000 wameshafanyiwa hayo. Watakufa njaa? Mbona miaka ya 1970 walikwishateswa na hiyo.
Hatuombei kuvunjika kwa Muungano lakini kama itatokea hivyo itakuwa sawa na nchi yoyote unayoanza kupata uhuru.

Bibi Ntilie said:

Nyerere na ushawishi wa Marekani wapi na wapi? Kama alitaka Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziungane ni kwa sababu nyingine lakini si kwa ushawishi wa Wakoloni. Mmarekani akitaka anaweza kuingia Zanzibar hata bila ya Muungano kuvunjika. Bado yatupasa tujiulize, Muungano ukivunjika atakayefaidika ama atakayepata hasara ni nani?

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Kinachozungumzwa hapa ni wakati wa vita baridi Mmarekani hakuwa na nguvu kama alivyo sasa duniani. Hebu nikupe somo kidogo, baada ya Uhuru wa Zanzibar Mmarekani alikodi sehemu nyeti Zanzibar na kujenga kituo cha satalite na alikwisha anza kuchimba mtaro mkubwa (inlet) kwa ajili ya kuingiza meli zake. Baada ya Mapinduzi ya 1964 Karume aliwatimua na kuvunja kila kitu.
Nadhani utaelewa wanaojuwa wanapoeleza mambo wanayoyajua.

phillemon mikael said:

....zanzibar sio TAIFA...pinda hakukosea kitu ...wala hakukurupuka tu kuliongelea bali alikuwa akijibu swali aliloulizwa na mbunge,MAHAKAMA YA RUFAA NDIYO ILIYOSEMA KUWA ZANZIBAR SIO TAIFA NA HAIWEZI KUPINDULIWA .....KIMSINGI MUUNGANO UNAWASAIDIA ZAIDI WAZANZIBAR..........kimsingi zanzibar ni nchi lakini sio TAIFA.......kidogo inafanana na uingereza na visiwa vyake kama IRELAND ..ETS ....vimepewa semi autonomy kwa baadhi ya mambo tu.....hata zanzibar pia wamebaki na identity yao lakini wanabaki na maamuzi kwa baadhi ya mambo tu..ambayo sio ya muungano....

zanzibar tukiwaacha watakuwa kama comoro ...wanaweza kuwa na marais hata watano kwa wakati mmoja...rais wa unguja,rais wa pemba..rais wa kisiwa chukwani,.....ets ets....na bado kina mohamed bacar watajaa wengi tu....

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Mkuu, umeongea la maana sana, lakini mi ningependa kusema kama Zanzibar wanataka kujitenga na kuwa taifa, tuwaache wafanye hivyo, live and let live. Mimi naona kama wataumia but then maybe I am wrong whichever way, Tanzania bara hatupotezi kitu chochote, labda tubadili tu jina turudi kwenye Tanganyika. Sidhani kama dunia iko tayari kukaribisha nchi mpya ya Zanzibar na watajikuta katika njia panda wakikaribishwa na ndugu zao waarabu tu lakini nchi kubwa zote zitawa-ignore. Heri hata Kosovo, ingawa hata wao wana wakati mgumu sana!! But let Zanzibar learn at their own expense, kwa nini tumewang'ang'ania?

Naona mambo ni magumu sana kwani mpaka sasa hakuna habari yeyote, tunapenda kujua kitu gani kimetokea ndani ya kiako au waafidhina wamenyamazishwa ndo maana wanaona aibu kusema kilichojiri.

Unforced errors: Unending debate on Zanzibar statehood

2008-07-19 09:10:15
By Ani Jozen


Mainland and Isles authorities (the former also pass as Union authorities) were back on a favourite pastime, of finding out whether Zanzibar was a state or it is not.

On the basis of the terms of the debate as the principal protagonists took the floor, for instance Prime Minister Mizengo Pinda in the National Assembly, it would appear that no ground has been covered on that issue.

Why is there a dialogue of the deaf where one side cannot hear what the other side is saying?

When for instance premier Pinda asks the two attorneys general to meet and clear the air over the issue, what chances of comprehension of each other was he expecting - and is there need for clarity on the matter?

Everyone knows that the two sides have varying sentiments about the union, which have been expressed from time to time with various intensities.

Is it not clear as yet that holding these sentiments is part of democracy, that is, its local expression, as constitutionality?

The problem about determining the statehood of Zanzibar does not arise from the constitutional blueprint as the latter has everything either side needs for reference.

Premier Pinda for instance sought to put the matter clearly on the basis of Article 1 of the Constitution of the United Republic of Tanzania, and made no reference to the fact that the Zanzibar Government is also constituted by an enabling Constitution.

In other words, even if the Zanzibar Government is pegged to the Union, it is constituted by a separate act, other instance of public will.

In other words, by virtue of having its own constitution, the Zanzibar Government is constituted by the general will of the people of Zanzibar rather than by the general will of the citizens of the United Republic of Tanzania.

The Union is not what constitutes the statehood of Zanzibar but it is an aspect of its statehood; it is, as it were, a hat that it wears at the moment, and for the foreseeable future, as Pinda`s state attorneys would rush to insist.

Yet constitutional intentionality is not however, its own guarantee but politics.

Put differently, what assures that Zanzibar will continue being a part of the United Republic of Tanzania is not Article 1 of the Union Constitution but Zanzibar politics, in the sense that it is by continual adhesion to the Union of the Isles general will that loyalty to the Union is ensured.

Since the Government of Zanzibar had to be constituted in a formal act of expression of popular will that is limited to Zanzibar, it means the Union can cease to exist when such will is demonstrably given. One cannot constitute a House of Representatives and ``legislate`` that it cannot vote against the Union; the issue is percentage.

There is an old rule of politics and warfare which was taken up by Marxist revolutionaries in the 20th century, for instance Mao Zedong and Amilcar Cabral.

The rule says ``tell no lies, claim no easy victories,`` and it seems that the Union government ``revolutionaries`` need to be reminded of this rule, so that they can clearly comprehend, or otherwise mentally adapt, to constitutional reality linking Zanzibar and the Mainland.

Saying that Zanzibar is not a state is close to saying that Zanzibar was at some point absorbed into the Union.

Making that kind of affirmation, or insinuating anything to that effect, is close to ``claiming easy victories,`` if one should adopt that formula above the more appropriate one, that it is close to ``telling lies.``

At the time of drawing up the Articles of Union, a situation existed where absorption could have taken place, on the basis of affirmations by Mwalimu Nyerere later, that Sheikh Karume was willing or enthusiastic about fully uniting the two parts.

But Mwalimu worried that Zanzibaris would later come to demand their lost sovereignty, and that would lead to an ill-adapted Union.

On the basis of Mwalimu`s affirmation alone, it is clear that what is then embedded in the Articles of Union is a state where two states unite, and only Tanganyika loses its status as a state, as it is fully absorbed into the Union, while Zanzibar retains its statehood.

So, trying to make `statehood` means the same thing as `sovereignty` is merely a play on words, which tries to ignore reality, that Zanzibar is a fully fledged constitutional state, and has never been absorbed into the Union.

It has a working arrangement with it, modeled on the colonial `protectorate` ties it used to have with Britain�

Admittedly, no one who was listening to Pinda in the National Assembly is unaware of these realities, but the point still resurfaces and is made a rallying cry that Zanzibar is not a state (or a country, whatever).

There is an effort, in these affirmations, of easing the path for Union authorities in their daily handling of issues with Zanzibar, where they are at times compelled to negotiate, painstakingly, every inch of the way.

For instance the Tanzania Revenue Authority (TRA) had to get massive state backing and the inclination of the Isles authorities to place the Isles taxation structures in a manner that conforms to TRA prerogatives, to close the `Z`bar route.`

Since there are quite a number of areas in which the Union takes higher profile than Zanzibar particularity or its internal administration, it is by and large possible to think of Zanzibar, generally as having transferred executive authority to the Union, save for a few internal or local matters.

Yet that frame is faulty because it is not from a fully constituted Union that some local matters were left out for the Zanzibar Government, but from a fully constituted Zanzibar state that some general matters were given to the Union government.

Who gives whom authority is important to sort out, and here it is Zanzibar which transfers issues, not the converse.

That means the rule about Zanzibar statehood includes all the big issues or Union matters, that the Union Government oversees them only because a fully constituted state or government in the Isles agrees that this should be the case.

By its nature, such authority can be withdrawn, by an equally important constitutive act, say by a two thirds majority vote by the House of Representatives that Zanzibar ends the relationship and fully assumes its sovereignty.

Such a move would merely lead to abrogating Article 1 of the Union Constitution and another article about the name, or reaffirm it nonetheless, that despite ending the Union, the name shall remain Tanzania.