Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kero zake: Je, tuuvunje?

[Liz Senior]

Japo ni marefu ingekuwa vyema wenye vifaa vya kitaalamu wayaweke hapa yajadiliwe. Ni mahali pazuri pa kuendelezea mjadala wa jambo hili. Na kwa vile amesisitiza ni mawazo yake binafsi ni vizuri kuyatafakari kwa kina. Yeye hupendelea michezo na biashara amesahau kuwa ni mwanasiasa pia

 

[Mwiba]

Labda tujiliwaze na mambo yaliopita United NATION :-

31 The People's Republic of Zanzibar was admitted to membership on 16 December 1963 by Resolution No. 1975 (XVIII). For the text of the Declaration of acceptance of the obligations contained in the Charter dated 10 December 1963 made by Zanzibar (registered under No. 7016), see United Nations, Treaty Series, vol. 483, p. 237.
In a note addressed to the Secretary General on 6 May 1964, the Ministry of External Affairs of the United Republic of Tanzania informed him that, following the signature and ratification of the Articles of Union between the Republic of Tanganyika and the People's Republic of Zanzibar, the two countries had been united on 26 April 1964, as one sovereign State under the name of the United Of Republic of Tanganyika and Zanzibar. The Ministry further asked the Secretary-General "to note that the United Republic of Tanganyika and Zanzibar declares that it is now a single Member of the United Nations bound by the provisions of the Charter, and that all international treaties and agreements in force between the Republic of Tanganyika or the People's Republic of Zanzibar and other States or international organizations will, to the extent that their implementation is consistent with the constitutional position established by the Articles of the Union, remain in force within the regional limits prescribed on their conclusion and in accordance with the principles of international law".
In communicating the above-mentioned note, in accordance with the request contained therein, to all States Members of the United Nations, to the principal organs of the United Nations and to the subsidiary organs of the United Nations to which Tanganyika and Zanzibar had been appointed, and to the specialized agencies of the United Nations and the International Atomic Energy Agency, the Secretary-General stated that he "is taking action, within the limits of his administrative responsibilities, to give effect to the declaration in the attached note that the United Republic of Tanganyika and Zanzibar is now a single Member of the United Nations bound by the provisions of the Charter.

 

[Bongolander]

Dk. Migiro either ameboronga au amekuwa misquoted.

Nchi haiwezi kuwa mwanachama wa UN kama nchi hiyo si nchi sovereign, that is true.

Lakini at the same time kutokuwa mwanachama wa U.N hakumaanishi kwamba wewe si nchi sovereign. U.N ni taasisi ya kimataifa kama nyingine nyingi, kuna nchi sovereign kama Switzerland ambazo kutokana na principles zake za neutrality na interests zake za banking zimeamua kutokuwa member wa U.N and many international organizations such as the E.U, NATO, SHENGEN and what not.Hii ni kwa sababu wa Swizi hawataki mikataba ya taasisi hizi iwafunge, hawataki ku abide to U.N resolutins ambazo zinaweza kuwa na implications kwenye banking industry yao na vitu kama hivyo.

Kwa hiyo kuleta issue ya uanachama wa U.N, which insinuates that as a criteria ya ku determine kama Zanzibar ni nchi au siyo at best ni upotoshaji.

Mwandishi anaruka left right and center lakini haja address swala muhimu, nini kinafanya nchi kuwa nchi?

Mkuu Pundit ninatatizika kidogo kuhusu SCHENGEN, hiyo nayo hii ni organisation au ni makubaliano? Naona kama hii post imekaa upande kidogo.

 

[Kungurumweupe]

Exactly my point,

Unless she is fishing to be misquoted, her entire statement is pointless and rationale is invisible.

What was her point in stating the obvious? tell us something we don't know, or something that has controversy, but unless you are exposing yourself to be misquoted, what is the point of saying "Tanzania is a U.N member state, Zanzibar is not" if you are really not trying to send a subliminary message to the Zanzibaris in the first place?

Then unakuta muandishi aliyesomea Ilala School of Journalism ambaye haujui mlango wa library una rangi gani, ana quote sensationally, then unamkuta airhead mmoja huko Zenj kama Shamhuna, anamburuza huyu mama naye kwenye mijadala ya local politics.

Huyu mama alitakiwa kunyamaza tu kuhusu hii issue, ama sivyo atajua Tanzania watu hawana akili au adabu, bahati yake hawajaidaka hii.

Pundit,

I like the way you give out your points on this controversial issue.

 

[Pundit]

Mkuu Pundit ninatatizika kidogo kuhusu SCHENGEN, hiyo nayo hii ni organisation au ni makubaliano? Naona kama hii post imekaa upande kidogo.

Makubaliano ni organization, you have to organize to reach an agreement, you cannot reach an agreement in chaos.

The english meaning of the word organisation has been hijacked by the conventional meaning, which is institution.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Makubaliano ni organization, you have to organize to reach an agreement, you cannot reach an agreement in chaos.

The english meaning of the word organisation has been hijacked by the conventional meaning, which is institution.

"Hijack".....your favorite word.....

And what's up with that Johnston & Murphy....you ain't feeling Florsheim?

 

[Pakacha]

Mbona dogo hilo ,ni rahisi unapoulizwa unatoka nchi gani ukasema ninatoka Tanzania na ikawa umemaliza na uliemjibu ikawa ameridhika ingawa hakuna Nchi inayoitwa Tanzania.
Ila ikiwa suala hilo hilo umeulizwa na msomi anefahamu Jiografia atakuuliza Tanzania bara(MainLand) au Zanzibar (Visiwani ) na ninaposema hakuna nchi inayoitwa

Sawa Mwiba. Hivyo Zanzibar ni sehemu ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania. Lakini Biharamulo si sehemu ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania, bali ni sehemu ya Tanzania Bara ( au Tanganyika), Tanganyika(au Tanzania kama watu wanavyotaka iwe) basi ni sehemu ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania kama vile ilivyo Zanzibar.

 

[Pundit]

"Hijack".....your favorite word.....

And what's up with that Johnston & Murphy....you ain't feeling Florsheim?

Florsheim is shining alright, a candle in the sunshine of J&M. They ain't made digz for dead prezs since 1850, continuously, now did they.I got sofa in my kicks can they match that?

 

[X-PASTER]

Ukiliangalia jambo hili kwa undani nchi yoyote ina dola, lakini Zanzibar haina Dola, Amiri Jeshi Mkuu wala mkuu wa nchi, ila inaonekana kuwa kikatiba rais wa Zanzibar ni mkuu wa serikali na si mkuu wa nchi.

Maneno haya yanathibitishwa na ile kesi ya uhaini iliyokuwa inamkabili katibu mkuu wa CUF Bwana Seif Sharif Hamad na viongozi 14 wa CUF, walipokamatwa mwezi Novemba, 1997. Mwanzo walishitakiwa kwa makosa ya uchochezi. Maombi ya dhamana yalipowasilishwa kwa wanachama hao kumi na nne, kosa likapandishwa na kuwa uhaini. Kosa ambalo halina dhamana kwa mujibu wa sheria.

Tukikubali kuwa Zanzibar ni Nchi basi Bwana Seif na wenzake watakuwa na kesi ya kujibu kisheria. Lakini kwa sababu wanazozijuwa wanasheria waliokuwa wanasikiliza kesi ile wakapitisha uhamuzi ambao hata yeye mwenyewe katibu mkuu wa CUF na wenzake walikubaliana nao. Kuwa Zanzibar si nchi. Majaji watatu waliosikiliza rufani hii, akiwemo Jaji Mkuu Tanzania, Augustino Ramadhani, wameona uhaini hauwezekani Zanzibar. Kwa hali hiyo basi ile kesi ya uhaini ya kutaka kupindua nchi ya kina Seif Sharif Hamad na Juma Duni haikuwa na nguvu ya kisheria, na ndo maana wakaachiwa huru.

Ukisoma katiba utaielewa vizuri sana, katika Katiba ya Jamhuri hakuna mahali popote panapoonyesha kuwa Zanzibar ni nchi, ukiangalia madaraka ya Rais wa Zanzibar, katiba inaonyesha kuwa kutakuwa na kiongozi wa Serikali ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar na si rais.

Naomba Kuwakilisha Hoja.

 

[eddy]

Huyu under-secretary vipi? yuko likizo au yuko kikazi na kwa mwaliko wanani? huko mwanza alienda kuonana na joseph koni au alikuwa anakagua makambi ya wakimbizi? kama anataka kuvalianjuga suala la pemba akaliongelee makunduchi!

 

[BAK]

United Republic of Zanzibar!
Lusekelo Adamu
Daily News; Wednesday,July 30, 2008 @00:06

I first thought that the on-going blah blahing between politicians of the different sides of the political divide in Mainland and Zanzibar would go away. It was too petty to warrant any attention. But, as you know, politicians love attention. They have made it an issue. I haven't. I find it too silly, to be given such attention.

All I know is if some politicians in the islands want out they should be given that opportunity. Let's ask the people of the Zanzibar and Pemba sister islands. Over the years, I have had no problems with unions, especially with my chicks. If they want out, I let them opt out. You can't force someone to love you.

If some politicians in Zanzibar (nchi) want to be called a country otherwise they will commit ‘hara kiri’, then let’s call them 'nchi'. In fact I suggest that we should even call Zanzibar 'nchi' twice. The name should be Nchi Zanzibar Nchi! That way the united republic will be rid of this nonsensical debate. The United Republic has mega problems.

We cannot get water in Dar. I haven't heard anything from the Bunge. Zanzibar has been in the dark for almost two months. I have yet to hear of anyone in the House of Reps fiercely coming down on the Revolutionary Government in Zenj. Our country is being looted left, right and centre by a cabal of politicians in collusion with international 'investors'.

What do you get from the Bunge and the House of Reps? Nothing! Zilch! And now Premier Mizengo 'Pete' Pinda comes with the 'nchi' thing and the whole is awash with this silly debate. It shows how idle some circles in our society are. I know that politicians have to speak something. But I think they have to speak using their heads, not their mouths!

What does the average Zanzibari in Mwanakwerekwe in Zanzibar benefit from being called 'nchi'? Absolutely nothing! What does the average mainlander in Tabora Region benefit from being called Tanzania nchi? If the politicians think they will benefit from making an issue of the 'nchi' thing, they should stand out and be counted. They should stop to manipulate the issue.

Let's just ask the people of Zanzibar and Pemba if they want the Union or they want out – and then let's respect that choice. It is very boring to see politicians, especially in Zenj, wanting to make political kudos out of the Union issue. Be warned people of Zenj, as we are busy wasting people's time talking hot air about 'nchi' thing the people of Pemba are also stirring. They also want out. They want their own government!

And times have changed. You just cannot force a people to love you - not even using guns. For guns have the habit of running out of ammo. Once you run out of ammo the SMG is useless, especially when facing a population armed with 'pangas'. I think it’s about time we revved up the Union and ask the people concerned if they want it or not and not listen to political clowns who want to make political hay out of nothing.

The prices of food are forbidding; and the hospitals are empty with the doctors fleeing abroad. Now they even want to pinch our teachers. Those politicians are making an issue out of being called 'nchi'. That is total nonsense! UN deputy Secretary General, Asha-Rose Migiro has just told Tanzanians that as far as she was concerned, the UN recognises a country called the United Republic of Tanzania, not Zanzibar!

Knowing how silly some of the politicians can be, they must be seething and saying that the UN deputy secretary general should be caned for - saying the truth. Any way, whatever the outcome of the referendum, I still would like my country, which I love very much, to be called Tanzania. That is whether there is another country called Zanzibar 'nchi' or another country the Republic of Pemba. Just go for it! Predictably, those fellows would go for each other’s throats so fast, they will never know what has hit them.

mbwene2@yahoo.com

 

[Kuhani]

Huyu under-secretary vipi? yuko likizo au yuko kikazi na kwa mwaliko wanani? huko mwanza alienda kuonana na joseph koni au alikuwa anakagua makambi ya wakimbizi? kama anataka kuvalianjuga suala la pemba akaliongelee makunduchi!

Nakubali Eddy,

Undersecretary amechemsha big time!

Mimi ningekuwa mmoja wa viongozi wa Zanzibar anaetaka huo uhuru sasa hivi ningefanya kitu kimoja ambacho kingeipa case ya Zanzibar international attention:

Ningekamata microphone nikasema "United Nations, please do not interfere with internal constitutional matters in Tanzania!"

Mwisho wa mchezo. Wa kina Ban Ki-Moon, na dunia nzima wangejiuliza imekuwaje tena? Mama yetu Migiro kitumbua kingeingia mchanga, I tell you!

Undersecretary of the UN, you just don't wade into internal constitutional debates of member states. What a crummy diplomat.

 

[Mbeba Maono]

hii ni opportunity kubwa kwa wakenya, wanaomba usiku na mchana ili tz kuwe na machafuko ili tufanane, mbona wanaleta ushabiki kwenye ishu zetu? waende zao huko. matatizo ya tz na zbr tunayajulia sisi wenyewe.

kama ulishawai kuwakuta ma identical twins sehemu wanapigana, ukaamua kumpiga mmoja wao, wote huwa wanakuja juu na kusaiidiana kukupiga wewe hata kama ulikuwa na nianzuri ya kuwaamulia. sasa, wakenya waache mambo ya kitz tutayamaliza sisi wenyewe. kwanza issue yetu ni ndogo sana, hata haiwezi ikafika kama yao ya kuchinjana..sisit tutasolve wenyewe. siku zote wakenya wanapend sana ushindani na watz, hawapendi siku zote watz waonekane ni washini wa amani kuliko wao. nendeni zenu na ukabila wenu.

 

[Pundit]

Nice piece,

But why do people, Lusekelo included, make it absolutely confirmed that the only people with the last say on muungano are Zanzibari's?

Throughout the article Lusekelo is urging everybody to let the Zanzibari decide - presumably in a referendum- the fate of muungano, what about mainlanders?

Although a long shot, it is not impossible for muungano to be successfully ratified in the islands, only to be rejected in the mainland.

When talking about letting the people deciding the fate of muungano we have to bear in mind this muungano is for all Tanzanians, and for the referendum to be meaningful, all Tanzanians must be involved.Lest one finish a referendum successfully for the muungano in the isles only to be greeted by some grievances from Kasulu and Hai!

 

[Mbeba Maono]

hahaha, huu uchochezi, ndo mnachochea zaidi ili wajitenga au vipi.

 

[Pundit]

hahaha, huu uchochezi, ndo mnachochea zaidi ili wajitenga au vipi.

Kuwapa watu haki ya kuamua mambo yao ni uchochezi? Kutaka watu wapige kura ya maoni itakayoamua kwamba waendelee au wasiendelee na muungano ni uchochezi?

Kwangu mimi uchochezi wa kweli ni kusema huu ni uchochezi, kwani mtu anayesema huu ni uchochezi anachochea hofu na woga ili watu wasiweze kuuzungumza muungano.

 

[Suki]

Just out of sheer curiosity...
Was this article published in the Daily News for real?

 

[Pundit]

hii ni opportunity kubwa kwa wakenya, wanaomba usiku na mchana ili tz kuwe na machafuko ili tufanane, mbona wanaleta ushabiki kwenye ishu zetu? waende zao huko. matatizo ya tz na zbr tunayajulia sisi wenyewe.

kama ulishawai kuwakuta ma identical twins sehemu wanapigana, ukaamua kumpiga mmoja wao, wote huwa wanakuja juu na kusaiidiana kukupiga wewe hata kama ulikuwa na nianzuri ya kuwaamulia. sasa, wakenya waache mambo ya kitz tutayamaliza sisi wenyewe. kwanza issue yetu ni ndogo sana, hata haiwezi ikafika kama yao ya kuchinjana..sisit tutasolve wenyewe. siku zote wakenya wanapend sana ushindani na watz, hawapendi siku zote watz waonekane ni washini wa amani kuliko wao. nendeni zenu na ukabila wenu.

The analogy of identical twin is a distortion at best, the history, population, economy, politics and culture of Zanzibar is far from "identical" to that of mainland Tanzania.

To say that Kenyans are praying for chaos in Tanzania is an unfortunate act that betrays more about your very own psychotic state of mind and pattern of thinking than why the Kenyans wrote the article.

In the wake of the EAC, to call Kenyan writing about Tanzanian affairs "ushabiki" betrays your parochialism and how little your appreciation for international relation stretches.

To say that "issue ni ndogo sana" betrays how callously cavalier your grasp of national issues is.To find comfort in the fact that the Kenyans had a bigger issue betrays how so full of gory and masochist shenanigans your sub-conscious is.

To think this in terms of competition betrays how combustively misguided your line of reasoning is.

The more you write the more you expose your faulty thinking.

 

[Pundit]

Just out of sheer curiosity...
Was this article published in the Daily News for real?

Suki,

That is Lusekelo for you. I asked the same question following another Lusekelo article,I was wondering whether there was some online only column or even a special email list that Lusekelo was writing on/ for.

Turns out the guy is crazy bold, you should se the one he went after Mkapa, in the Daily Noize no less.I think he smoke or drink something something before writing this, at least the boldness is not sober if on point,lol

Just what we need, IMHO.

 

[under_age]

Heshima mbele mkuu.
Lakini, iwapo Zanzibar itarejeshewa hadhi yake kimataifa, bado Muungano utakuwepo? Kwa misingi gani? Au hoja yako ni kutaka Muungano uvunjwe lakini umeamua kuipresent kivingine?

if that is the only option, so be it! tumechoka na kutafunwa huku tunapulizwa, ila nadhani serikali tatu pia ina uwezo wa kuifanya zanzibar ijitangaze kama itapewa mfumo wa serikali ya tanganyika na zanzibar kuwa serikali huria kuendesha mambo yao na serikali kuu ya muungano kupewa hadhi ya kusimamia baadhi ya mambo fulani tutakayokubaliana., najiuliza suali , je tukiiuliza tanganyika ni kwanini inaushikilia huu muungano na kuubembeleza sana, nitajibiwa nini? (something going on underground)