Nakala za Hukumu, Kesi ya Liyumba!


Hivi maneno "spended" au "outwith" maana zake nini hasa? Eenh?

Tuchambue mahakimu, lakini tungeanza na wewe kwanza, Mwanasheria wetu hapa.

Uliyoandika hapo juu ni kielelezo madhubuti kabisa kwamba kwa kweli Watanzania kuna fani bado hatujazimudu. Wanasheria wanaitana "Ndugu Waliosoma," mwanasheria unatakiwa uwe makini na lugha unayotumia. Wewe huna haki ya kuwachambua mahakimu wa kesi hii manake hata kuandika sentensi iliyonyooka unapata tabu, hujamudu medani ya mafunzo yako. Taka, usitake, kasirika.

Haya, tuendelee na uchambuzi na kudadavua hukumu. Naomba mamlaka, au chanzo chako kuwa Wazee wa Baraza ni lazima wafuatwe kwenye Mahakama ya Mwanzo na si lazima Mahakama Kuu.
 
outwith = The opposite of ‘within' ; is ‘outside'

Labda mengine kiufundi wa maneno na makosa ya uchapaji mzee ambayo si kigezo sahihi sana cha kupima na kufikia hitimisho kuhusu "kumudu au kutomudu fani" kwenye mjadala wa mantiki za hoja kwani pengine mchangiaji anaweza asiwe amefanya uhakiki wa kupitia yale aliyoandika!.Hii utokea hata kwenye sheria na hata hizo hukumu, na ndio maana kuna nafasi ya kurekebisha makosa ya kiandishi (correction of errors)

Ikumbukwe kuwa mjadala hapa ni katika hoja kwenye uamuzi kwa mtazamo wa kila mmoja na sio kuwachambua Waheshimiwa mahakimu katika lugha, uelewa wao wa kufikia uamuzi huo nk.

Binafsi sijaelewa hapa kwenye hitimisho lako una maanisha nini hasa "Naomba mamlaka, au chanzo chako kuwa Wazee wa Baraza ni lazima wafuatwe kwenye Mahakama ya Mwanzo na si lazima Mahakama Kuu."
 

Sio kosa dogo la kupuuzia, jamaa hajui kwamba wakati uliopita wa neno spend ni "spent" sio "spended"! Na makosa mengine lukuki yamesheheni maandishi yake. Anatia soni medani nzima.

Kwa kadri siku zinavyozidi kwenda medani ya sheria ulimwenguni kote imekuwa ikiendeshwa zaidi na mawasiliano ya makaratasi kuliko kwenda vizimbani kuongeaongea. Kama huwezi kuandika hata kidogo huwezi kuwa wakili mwenye thamani ya jina lako. Tutawezaje kudadavua hukumu za mahakimu wakati hatuna hata uwezo wa kuandika sentenso isiyopinda sarufi? Hivi huyu Buchanan akiwa mtetezi wako halafu akakuandikia nyaraka kwenda kwa hakimu kwa lugha ya vituko kama aliyotumia hapo juu hiyo kesi unajiongezea nafasi ya kushinda kweli? Ngoshwe usitetee madudu.

Ukiombwa "mamlaka" ya kitu ulichodai maana yake utoe sheria au uamuzi wa kesi inayosindikiza kile ulichokisema. Hivyo nilimuomba Buchanan anambie ametoa wapi madai yake kwamba Wazee wa Baraza mahakama za mwanzo lazima wafuatwe walichoamua na Mahakama Kuu si lazima.

 

Kwa jinsi ulivyovamia mjadala huu umenisikitisha sana! Unadai kwamba tunachambua mahakimu, sijui umeona tumemchambua Hakimu gani kati ya wale watatu waliotoa Hukumu! Na kama unadai kuwa "watanzania fani hatujaimudu" ukijijumuisha na wewe kama ni mtanzania, sasa unacholalamikia ni nini? Kumbuka kuwa kujifunza hakuishi, ndio maana tunaendelea kujifunza hadi tutakapokufa, hakuna aliyemaliza kujifunza hata kama umemaliza Chuo, hata wewe mwenyewe bado unajifunza! Wewe unayejidai kuwa uko makini na unajua kutengeneza sentensi umeshindwa kujua kwenye Post #20 kuwa maneno ya rangi nyekundu nimeyachukua kama yalivyo kutoka kwenye Post #19 na maelezo yangu nimeyaandikwa kwa rangi ya bluu! Kwa hiyo utagundua kwamba sentensi "Who was the client in the Agreement same would have been in the supplemantary one?" sio niliyoiandika mimi originally! Vile vile sentensi "hence may lead to the increase or decrease the Contract price" sikuiandika mimi originally (rejea post #19 na 20)! Rejea na baadhi ya sentensi ujue mwanzoni zilitoka wapi!
 
Buchanan said:
Kwa jinsi ulivyovamia mjadala huu umenisikitisha sana! ....
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Si umesema wote tunajifunza siku zote, basi usiseme umesikitika, si tunajifunza? Ni kitu chanya.

Hata hivyo, ni lazima tuongeze huu mwendokasi wa kujifunza. Haiwezekani mpaka leo mtu unatuchambulia sheria ukawa hujui kwamba hakuna kitu "facts takes…money to be spended.. ...defense deliberately ignored those witnesses and relying on verbal communication...The variation is in Law of Contract permitted..." Haya ni makosa makubwa ya misingi ya sarufi. Ilibidi uwe umeshayajua. Usinambie umesikitika nilivyouvaa mjadala, sema umejisikitikia. Hakuna aliyewahi kukwambia Mzee maandishi yako unachemsha?! Ungeshukuru, sio unambie unajisikitisha.

Umetupa somo hapa kwamba katika Mahakama ya Mwanzo kile walichoamua wazee wa Baraza lazima kifatwe, na si Mahakama Kuu. Naomba mamlaka au chanzo cha kisheria ulikotoa madai hayo.
 

Umesoma Post #19 ili ujue facts takes, money to be spended yalisemwa na nani tangu mwanzo? Wewe unayejidai kuwa uko makini na unajua kutengeneza sentensi umeshindwa kujua kwenye Post #20 kuwa maneno ya rangi nyekundu nimeyachukua kama yalivyo kutoka kwenye Post #19 na maelezo yangu nimeyaandikwa kwa rangi ya bluu! Kwa hiyo utagundua kwamba sentensi "Who was the client in the Agreement same would have been in the supplemantary one?" sio niliyoiandika mimi originally! Vile vile sentensi "hence may lead to the increase or decrease the Contract price" sikuiandika mimi originally (rejea post #19 na 20)!
 
Mimi kimyaaa, maana sijui sheria na hayo maneno!
 
ahaaa, nimecheka sana.

Mzee Tindikali naona ni mtaalamu zaidi wa lugha ya Kiingereza, lakini binafsi nilijitahidi kueleza tatizo hilo la ufundi hapa katika post # 22 na mara zote hali hii inatokea kwa kuwa hakuna anayetumia muda kupitia upya tena na tena yale tunayoandika. Ujua waweza kuwa unafikiri kishwahili na kuandika kiingereza na kinyume chake. Kwa kuzingatia mapungufu ambayo wengi wetu tunayo katika maandishi hata matamshi, nadhani hata hapa nawe Tindikali ukaamua kuzama kwa lugha rahisi ya Kiwetu kuomba "mamlaka" ukimaanisha (authority??)..
Mzee Buchanan naona siri ya kujifunza ni kukiri pia makosa na kuwajibika nayo pindi inapobidi, katika post zetu zote za awali kila mmoja wetu amekosea kwa jinsi yake, lakini haimaanishi kuwa hatuelewi kile tulichoandika labda kama mantiki ya hoja haieleweki kabisaaaa.

Binafsi huwa pengine inaniwia tabu kweli kweli kuandika hapa na kukaaa kuanza kupitia na kusahihisha kila kila neno hata kabla ya ku-post. Hii inanifanya kuonekana kama umechapia hata kwa kishwahili kwa mishingi ya maana ya kisarufi na makosa ya uchapaji(typing errors).

Sijui kama mzee Tindikali huko juu nako ulipitia vizuri kwenye kile kinachojadiliwa labda ungeweza kunagalia maana ya kisarufi pia katika haya hapa chini na kutusaidia mwongozo!.

Taaluma hii kazi kweli, wengi ni wajuzi wa kuangalia na kukosoa, tunapojaribu tusihofu kukosolewa, ndio siri ya kujifunza.

 
ngoshwe said:
Taaluma hii kazi kweli, wengi ni wajuzi wa kuangalia na kukosoa, tunapojaribu tusihofu kukosolewa, ndio siri ya kujifunza.
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Maneno yako yanafaa sana kama "nia ni kujifunza!"
 
ngoshwe said:
... nadhani hata hapa nawe Tindikali ukaamua kuzama kwa lugha rahisi ya Kiwetu kuomba "mamlaka" ukimaanisha (authority??)..
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Eee bana, manake tumepewa somo hapa, kwamba, katika Mahakama ya Mwanzo kile kinachoamuliwa na Wazee wa Baraza ni lazima kifatwe, lakini Mahakama Kuu si lazima. Sasa bwana/bibi Buchanan anaombwa mamlaka ya madai hayo, kaitoa wapi habari hiyo? Hajajibu, badala yake anaanza oooh, maneno yangu mimi mekundu, ya hakimu ya bluu, meusi si yangu....wakati yote, ya rangi zote, yana michemko.

Ngoshwe ukiweza tusaidie bana... ametoa wapi habari hiyo huyu Buchanan... hahahaa....
 
Hivi kuna mtu ana "Memorandum of Appeal" ya Liyumba?
 
Umetupa somo hapa kwamba katika Mahakama ya Mwanzo kile walichoamua wazee wa Baraza lazima kifatwe, na si Mahakama Kuu. Naomba mamlaka au chanzo cha kisheria ulikotoa madai hayo.
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If I have understood well your concern, you may have this legal guidance from the relevant laws which I have tries to do for clarification.

Primary Courts

Pursuant to Section 7(1) of MCA, 1984, it is required that every proceeding in the primary court, including a finding, the court should sit with not less than two assessors.

Section 7 (2) of the Act provides further that "All matters in the primary court including a finding in any issue, the question of adjourning the hearing, an application for bail, a question of guilt or innocence of any accused person, the determination of sentence, the assessment of any monetary award and all questions and issues whatsoever shall, in the event of difference between a magistrate and the assessors or any of them, be decided by the votes of the majority of the magistrates and assessors present and in the event of an equality of votes the magistrate shall have the casting vote in addition to his deliberative vote.

(3) In any proceeding in any other magistrates' court in which any rule of customary or Islamic law is in issue or relevant, the court may, and when directed by an appropriate judicial authority shall, sit with an assessor or assessors; and every such assessor shall be required, before judgment, to give his opinion as to all questions relating to customary or Islamic law in issue in, or relevant to, the proceeding; save that in determining the proceeding the court shall not be bound to conform with the opinion of the assessors.

Section 174 read together with section 173 of the Criminal the Criminal Procedure Act 1985 require that all offences to be tried by the Magistrates with extended jurisdiction shall be tried with the aid of two or more assessors and in the manner prescribed for the trial of offences by the High Court


Weight of assessors' opinion in PMCs

Rule 3 the Magistrates Courts (Primary Courts) (Judgment of Court) Rules, 1987 GN No. 2 of 1988. It provides:

 (1) Where in any proceedings the court has heard all the evidence or matters pertaining to the issue to be determined by the court, the magistrate shall proceed to consult with the assessors present, with the view of reaching a decision of the court.

(2) If all the members of the court agree on one decision, the magistrate shall proceed to record the decision or judgment of the court which shall be signed by all the members.

(3) For the avoidance of doubt a magistrate shall not, in lieu of or in addition to, the consultations referred to in sub-rule (1) of this Rule, be entitled to sum up to the other members of the court.


In considering the roles of assessors in the Primary Courts in the case of Foya v Mlinga [2004] (unreported), the Court of Appeal of Tanzania had the following views:

"We do not read anything in Rule 3 (1), (2) and (3) above which demands the assessors to give their opinions on an issue before the court.

Under Rule 2 assessors are members of the court which include the magistrate. It is evident from sub rule (2) above that all members of the court are required to participate in the decision making process of the court. Assessors are members of the court equal with the magistrate.

After they have completed hearing the evidence from the parties, the stage is then set for the magistrate to consult with them in order to reach a decision of the court. This presupposes that before the court reaches a decision, there will be a conference of the members of the court to deliberate on the issues before them and reach a decision. In such a case, the magistrate will write down the decision, which will then be signed by all members of the court."

High Court

As for the Magistrate Courts, assessors can be simply regarded as a panel of experts in determining an issue before the High court as for Jury in other judicial systems.
Assessors in the divisions of the High Court are selected from a list of experts submitted to the court by the specific court users committee and have to be knowledgeable in the field concerning the suit.

Weight of assessors' opinions

Under article 27 (4) of the Magistrates Courts Act it provides that in any appeal a rule of customary law is in issue or relevant the High Court may refer any question of Customary law to a panel of experts. However, the High Court shall not be bound to conform to the opinion of such experts in determining the appeal
Also, section 265 of the Criminal Procedure Act 1985 (CPA) it stipulates that all criminal trials before the court shall be with aid of two or more assessors as the court thinks fit.
Further, Section 298(1) and (2) of CPA provides:

(1) When the case on both sides is closed, the judge may sum up the evidence for the prosecution and the defence, and shall then require each of the assessors to state his opinion orally as to the case generally and to any specific question of fact addressed to him by the judge, and shall record such opinion.

(2) The judge shall then give judgment, but in doing so, shall not be bound to confirm to the opinions of the assessors.
 
ngoshwe said:


If I have understood well your concern, you may have this legal guidance from the relevant laws which I have tries to do for clarification.
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Tusizunguke mibuyu, wapi waliposema uamuzi wa wazee wa baraza mahakama ya mwanzo lazima ufatwe?
 
Tindikali said:
Tusizunguke mibuyu, wapi waliposema uamuzi wa wazee wa baraza mahakama ya mwanzo lazima ufatwe?
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Tindikali, napata tabu kidogo kuelewa hii kauli
"uamuzi wa wazee wa baraza mahakama ya mwanzo lazima ufatwe?" imetolewa na nani hapa, sijaona popote hii zaidi ya wewe kuhoji hili. Nilichojaribu kufanya hapo juu ni kutoa msimamo wa sheria kuhusu nafsi za wazee wa baraza katika Mahakama zetu.

Kwa kuzingatia sheria, Wazee wa Baraza ni washauri tu hawana mamlaka ya " kutoa uamuzi" isipokuwa wajibu wao ni kuisaidia Mahakama katika maeneo yanayohitaji utaalaumu na uzoefu wao katika suala linalozungumziwa ili kuwezesha haki kutendeka.

Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza lakini si sheria kuwa ni lazima wazee watoe maoni yao. Katika Mahakama Kuu, sheria haimbani Jaji kuzingatia maoni ya wazee wa Baraza.

Umamuzi kwa kawaid huwa ni wa Mahakama(Hakimu au Jaji) na sio wa Wazee wa Baraza!!.
 
ngoshwe said:
...Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza
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Umetoa wapi hicho kitu?

Nionyeshe hiyo sheria inayosema "Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza." Iko wapi?
 
Tindikali said:
Umetoa wapi hicho kitu?

Nionyeshe hiyo sheria inayosema "Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza." Iko wapi?[/FONT][/SIZE]
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Primary Courts

Pursuant to Section 7(1) of MCA, 1984, it is required that every proceeding in the primary court, including a finding, the court should sit with not less than two assessors.

Section 7 (2) of the Act provides further that "All matters in the primary court including a finding in any issue, the question of adjourning the hearing, an application for bail, a question of guilt or innocence of any accused person, the determination of sentence, the assessment of any monetary award and all questions and issues whatsoever shall, in the event of difference between a magistrate and the assessors or any of them, be decided by the votes of the majority of the magistrates and assessors present and in the event of an equality of votes the magistrate shall have the casting vote in addition to his deliberative vote."

Ndugu Ngoshwe na Tindikali, kama sijaelewa kifungu hicho hapo juu, esp sehemu niliyo-underline, nielewesheni, please! Kwa mfano assessors wawili wamekubaliana mshtakiwa aachiwe huru, huku Hakimu ameona kwamba ana hatia na afungwe, what next?
 
Wanasheria wa bongo bana, mi huwa wananichosha kabisaaaa. Maneno meengi.

Mwanasheria wa kipindi cha sheria clouds fm radio.
 
Ama said:
Wanasheria wa bongo bana, mi huwa wananichosha kabisaaaa. Maneno meengi.

Mwanasheria wa kipindi cha sheria clouds fm radio.
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Wanasheria wa nchi gani ndio hawana "maneno mengi?"
 
Buchanan said:
Wanasheria wa nchi gani ndio hawana "maneno mengi?"
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wanasheria wa Tanzania maneno meeengi na ubishi kibaaaaaaao. Ukiwaquestion kidogo tu wanaruka hao, utadhani wameona nyoka usiku wa giza!

Asante, una swali zaidi?
 
Ama said:
wanasheria wa Tanzania maneno meeengi na ubishi kibaaaaaaao. Ukiwaquestion kidogo tu wanaruka hao, utadhani wameona nyoka usiku wa giza!

Asante, una swali zaidi?
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Fani yenyewe ndio inahitaji kuongea ndugu! Dunia nzima wako hivyo, ni mdomo wako ndio utakaobadilisha "usiku kuwa mchana" (just kidding)!
 
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