Ni kwanini Mauaji ya Rwanda yanaitwa ya Kimbari Genocide

[jMali]

Ndiyo maana nashindwa kuelewa ni kwanini mauaji yaliyofanyika yanaitwa ya kimbari, kwa maana kuita mauaji ya kmbari ina maana ni kundi moja linaamua kuwaua kwa makusudi kundi jingine kwa laengo la kuwaangamiza kabisa, sasa kwa Rwanda kuna watu wa aina moja tu yaani Wanyarwanda na hao wanaoitwa Watusi/Wahutu ni matabaka tu ya watu wa jamii moja, ambayo kama ulivyosema wazungu waliyatumia kuwaganya lkn wote wana same genetic pool!

Ni kweli wote ni wamoja, lakini tofauti zinazowafanya kuitwa wahutu na watutsi ziko dhahiri, mwenye pua ndefu na mrefu huwezi kumuita mhutu, na mfupi mnene mwenye pua kama papa wemba huwezi kumuita mtutsi.

 

[Barbarosa]

Mleta mada una asili ya ubishi japo wote tunaongea lugha moja. Mabishano yasiyoisha huweza kupelekea mauaji ya kimbari katika jamii.

Kwanza unaelewa kwa nini mauaji yanaitwa ya kimbari?? Mpaka mauaji yaitwe ya Kimbari siyo kazi rahisi, kuuwa tu watu hakufanyi mauaji yaitwe ya kimbari na ndiyo maana unaona mpka leo hii nchini Uturuki ingawaje Waarmenia waliuliwa wengi sana na lkn Uturuki haikubali kwamba yalikuwa ni mauaji ya kimbari ingawaje Uturuki inakubali kwamba mauaji yalitokea lkn ukitaka kukosana na Uturuki basi tumia neno kimbari unaweza kutumia maneno yote unayotaka lkn usithubutu kusema yalikuwa ni ya kimbari!

Hivyo hilo neno halipo bila ya sababu, lina maana kubwa sana kisiasa!

 

[Barbarosa]

Ni kweli wote ni wamoja, lakini tofauti zinazowafanya kuitwa wahutu na watutsi ziko dhahiri, mwenye pua ndefu na mrefu huwezi kumuita mhutu, na mfupi mnene mwenye pua kama papa wemba huwezi kumuita mtutsi.

Hiyo ni tafsiri tu iliyoletwa na Wazungu ni kama vile sisi kwetu kuna Wachaga weupe na kuna Wachaga weusi au kuna Wazaramu weupe wengine weusi sasa leo hii ukija ukasema kwamba wale Wazaramu weupe ni tofauti na wale weusi na ukaamua kuifanya ikawa ndiyo sera ya nchi basi watu wataamini hivyo na ikiendelea kwa vizazi itakubalika lkn je unaweza kuja kusema kwamba Wazaramo au Wachaga weupe na weusi ni ethnics mbili tofauti?

 

[jMali]

Hiyo ni tafsiri tu iliyoletwa na Wazungu ni kama vile sisi kwetu kuna Wachaga weupe na kuna Wachaga weusi au kuna Wazaramu weupe wengine weusi sasa leo hii ukija ukasema kwamba wale Wazaramu weupe ni tofauti na wale weusi na ukaamua kuifanya ikawa ndiyo sera ya nchi basi watu wataamini hivyo na ikiendelea kwa vizazi itakubalika lkn je unaweza kuja kusema kwamba Wazaramo au Wachaga weupe na weusi ni ethnics mbili tofauti?

Kimsingi nakubaliana na wewe, lakini bahati mbaya reality ni kuwa wenzetu walilikubali hilo na waliendelea nalo. Na hivyo ethnicity zipo. Wapo wasudani weusi kama mpoki wanajiita waarabu sio wabantu.

 

[nyumbatatu]

Ndiyo maana nashindwa kuelewa ni kwanini mauaji yaliyofanyika yanaitwa ya kimbari, kwa maana kuita mauaji ya kmbari ina maana ni kundi moja linaamua kuwaua kwa makusudi kundi jingine kwa laengo la kuwaangamiza kabisa, sasa kwa Rwanda kuna watu wa aina moja tu yaani Wanyarwanda na hao wanaoitwa Watusi/Wahutu ni matabaka tu ya watu wa jamii moja, ambayo kama ulivyosema wazungu waliyatumia kuwaganya lkn wote wana same genetic pool!

Kwa kifupi elewa kuwa wazungu waliweza kuwagawa kwa vigezo walivyotumia, baadaye likatokea tabaka dogo pendelewa la wazungu, kubwa telekezwa, kwa hiyo baada ya vizazi kadhaa mapigano yakatokea ya kitabaka.( mapinduzi), Na ikatokea tabaka la akina hybrarimana kutafuta kuangamiza tabaka tishio kwao la akina kagame. Yakawa mauaji ya kimbari

 

[Barbarosa]

Kwa kifupi elewa kuwa wazungu waliweza kuwagawa kwa vigezo walivyotumia, baadaye likatokea tabaka dogo pendelewa la wazungu, kubwa telekezwa, kwa hiyo baada ya vizazi kadhaa mapigano yakatokea ya kitabaka.( mapinduzi), Na ikatokea tabaka la akina hybrarimana kutafuta kuangamiza tabaka tishio kwao la akina kagame. Yakawa mauaji ya kimbari

Mpaka hapo nakubaliana na wewe nalifahamu hilo ila shida yangu inakuja kwenye matumizi ya neno kimbari kwa kuwa maana ya mauaji ya kimbari kwa mujibu wa umoja ya Mataifa ni pale tu kundi moja au ethnic group moja inapoamua kuangamiza ethnic group nyingine, na siyo tabaka!
Kwa mfano Mauaji ya Wayahudi huko Ulaya hususani Ujerumani na nchi nyingine yanaitwa ya kimbari kwa maana inasemakena wayahudi waliuliwa kwa lengo la kuangamizwa na Wazungu ambapo inasemekana Wayahudi na Wazungu ni ethnic mbili tofauti!

Mauaji ya Rwanda yanaitwa tu ya kimbari kwa maana wanasema kwamba Wahutu na watusi ni watu wawili tofauti na mmoja aliamua kumuangamiza mwingine lkn siyo tabaka mbili tofauti hiyo haiwezi kuingia kwenye mauaji ya kimbari na hapo ndipo ninaposhindwa kuelewa!

 

[Kituko]

Lakini kwa nini wanaongea Lugha moja kama ni watu wawili tofauti???

Kiasili watusi sio wabantu, asili yao ni kama Waethiopia, Eritrea, Somalis, na kiukweli walikuwa na Lugha yao iliyokuwa inafanana Kabisa na hayo makabila niliyoyataja hapo juu,

Wakati wanaamia hapa East na Central Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, DRC na Tanzania) walikuta kuna lugha inayoongelewa hapa ndio kicho tunachosema Kinyarwanda, kwa hiyo Watutsi wakaacha Lugha yao ya Asili na wakaanza kuongea khicho Kinyarwanda,

Hivyo "Kiasili" Kinyarwanda sio Lugha mama ya Watutsi japo kwa sasa imekuwa ndio lugha yao ya asili kwa sababu vizazi na vizazi vimeshazaliana

Kwa hiyo walichouaniana huko Rwanda ni asili na wala sio Lugha,

Ni kama vita iliyokuwa Somalia, walikuwa wanapigana koo moja na lingine ingawa Lugha na dini ni moja

 

[Barbarosa]

Kiasili watusi sio wabantu, asili yao ni kama Waethiopia, Eritrea, Somalis, na kiukweli walikuwa na Lugha yao iliyokuwa inafanana Kabisa na hayo makabila niliyoyataja hapo juu,

Wakati wanaamia hapa East na Central Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, DRC na Tanzania) walikuta kuna lugha inayoongelewa hapa ndio kicho tunachosema Kinyarwanda, kwa hiyo Watutsi wakaacha Lugha yao ya Asili na wakaanza kuongea khicho Kinyarwanda,

Hivyo "Kiasili" Kinyarwanda sio Lugha mama ya Watutsi japo kwa sasa imekuwa ndio lugha yao ya asili kwa sababu vizazi na vizazi vimeshazaliana

Ni nani amekupa habari za Uongo na upotoshaji namna hii??? Hawo unaowaita Watusi pamoja na Wahutu ni Wabantu kwa 100% na wala hawana uhusiano wowote ule na watu wa Ethiopia!

Kwani uthibitisho pekee wa asili ya mtu ni lugha anayoongea na lugha yao ya Kinyarwanda ni Kibantu kwa 100%, chukulia kwa mfano Wamasai hawa siyo Wabantu na kweli asili yao ni Am huko Ethiopia na hata lugha yao siyo ya kibantu!

 

[Kituko]

Ni nani amekupa habari za Uongo na upotoshaji namna hii??? Hawo unaowaita Watusi pamoja na Wahutu ni Wabantu kwa 100% na wala hawana uhusiano wowote ule na watu wa Ethiopia!

Kwani uthibitisho pekee wa asili ya mtu ni lugha anayoongea na lugha yao ya Kinyarwanda ni Kibantu kwa 100%, chukulia kwa mfano Wamasai hawa siyo Wabantu na kweli asili yao ni Am huko Ethiopia na hata lugha yao siyo ya kibantu!

Sasa kama unauliza na unaelezwa kisha unabisha basi ngoja tukuache,
Watutsi walikuja hapo na kuikuta hiyo lugha ipo,
logic iko hivi, Watutsi baada ya kufika hapo Say Rwanda, waliwakuta wahutu wanaongea Lugha gani? Na wao Watutsi walikuwa wanongea lugha gani? Au unataka kuniambia hao watutsi walikuja na hiyo lugha na kisha kuwakuta wahutu wanaongea lugha hiyohoyo?

 

[Barbarosa]

Sasa kama unauliza na unaelezwa kisha unabisha basi ngoja tukuache,
Watutsi walikuja hapo na kuikuta hiyo lugha ipo,
logic iko hivi, Watutsi baada ya kufika hapo Say Rwanda, waliwakuta wahutu wanaongea Lugha gani? Na wao Watutsi walikuwa wanongea lugha gani? Au unataka kuniambia hao watutsi walikuja na hiyo lugha na kisha kuwakuta wahutu wanaongea lugha hiyohoyo?

Watusi walikuja kutokea wapi?? Watusi asili yao ni hapo hapo walipo kama vile Mnyarwanda yoyote yule! Hawajatokea popote pale ispokuwa hilo eneo waliopo leo hii sana sana kama kuhamia watakuwa walitoka Afrika ya Magharibi ambako ndiko Wabantu wote tulikotokea!

Watusi siyo ethnic group bali ni tabaka tu la Wanyarwanda wote watusi na wahutu na siyo kabila/ethnic bali ni watu wamoja wenye matabaka tofauti!

 

[Kituko]

Watusi walikuja kutokea wapi?? Watusi asili yao ni hapo hapo walipo kama vile Mnyarwanda yoyote yule! Hawajatokea popote pale ispokuwa hilo eneo waliopo leo hii sana sana kama kuhamia watakuwa walitoka Afrika ya Magharibi ambako ndiko Wabantu wote tulikotokea!

Asante kaka nimekuelewa, wengine hatuna misuli ya ubushi wa kijinga kwa vitu vilivyo wazi, historia iko wazi ndugu yangu inajulikana kabisa kulikuwa na Watwa, wakaja Wahutu kisha Watutsi, sasa haiwezekani muamiaji wa mwisho aje la lugha inayofanana na wenyeji aliowakuta na sio tu kwamba hiyo lugha ilikuwa walipo Watwa na Wahutu bali mpaka DRC na Kigoma (Waha) kwa kaisi fulani wanashahabiana kilugha

Chuki na mauaji ya Kimbari hapo Rwanda na Burundi hayakuwa juu ya Lugha, bali asili

 

[Barbarosa]

Asante kaka nimekuelewa, wengine hatuna misuli ya ubushi wa kijinga kwa vitu vilivyo wazi, historia iko wazi ndugu yangu inajulikana kabisa kulikuwa na Watwa, wakaja Wahutu kisha Watutsi, sasa haiwezekani muamiaji wa mwisho aje la lugha inayofanana na wenyeji aliowakuta na sio tu kwamba hiyo lugha ilikuwa walipo Watwa na Wahutu bali mpaka DRC na Kigoma (Waha) kwa kaisi fulani wanashahabiana kilugha

Chuki na mauaji ya Kimbari hapo Rwanda na Burundi hayakuwa juu ya Lugha, bali asili

Ndugu kitu pekee kinachomtambulisha binadamu ni lugha yake ya asili, hii inatambulika Dunia nzima, hivyo kama hawo unaowaita Watusi wasingekuwa Wabantu ni lazima wangekuwa na lugha yao ni rahisi kihivyo tu!
Nimekupa mifano mingi hata Wajaluo siyo Wabantu na ushahidi pekee ni lugha yao siyo ya kibantu na wamehamia hapa kwetu kutokea Mto Nile huko, hivyo kama Wanyarwanda ambao unawaita Watusi wasingekuwa Wabantu ni lazima Lugha wanayoiongea isingekuwa ya Kibantu, hakuna ushahidi mwingine kwenye mambo ya ethnology!
Hata Utamaduni wao ni wa Kibantu, majina yao ni ya Kibantu, sasa unatafuta ushahidi gani mwingine??

Hii ni kutoka wikipedia!

Modern-day genetic studies of the Y-chromosome generally indicate that the Tutsi, like the Hutu, are largely of Bantu extraction (60%E1b1a, 20% B, 4% E3)

 

[Kituko]

Ndugu kitu pekee kinachomtambulisha binadamu ni lugha yake ya asili, hii inatambulika Dunia nzima, hivyo kama hawo unaowaita Watusi wasingekuwa Wabantu ni lazima wangekuwa na lugha yao ni rahisi kihivyo tu!
Nimekupa mifano mingi hata Wajaluo siyo Wabantu na ushahidi pekee ni lugha yao siyo ya kibantu na wamehamia hapa kwetu kutokea Mto Nile huko, hivyo kama Wanyarwanda ambao unawaita Watusi wasingekuwa Wabantu ni lazima Lugha wanayoiongea isingekuwa ya Kibantu, hakuna ushahidi mwingine kwenye mambo ya ethnology!
Hata Utamaduni wao ni wa Kibantu, majina yao ni ya Kibantu, sasa unatafuta ushahidi gani mwingine??

Hii ni kutoka wikipedia!

Modern-day genetic studies of the Y-chromosome generally indicate that the Tutsi, like the Hutu, are largely of Bantu extraction (60%E1b1a, 20% B, 4% E3)

Wangoni inajulikana wazi waliamia kutoka South Africa, chini ya Shaka zulu, na ni wabantu pure, mbona lugha waliyokuja nayo hawaiongei tena? Na lugha wanayoiongea sasa mbona South Africa hakuna hata trace yake?

Kwa taarifa yako, kabila linalotaka ku rule ni raisi sana kupoteza lugha yake na hata asili yake ili wakubalike kuwa ni wamoja ili waweze kurule,

Kilichofanywa na Watutsi Rwanda ni sawa na kilichofanywa na Wangoni kusini ya Tanzania, na makabila ya hivyo yako mengi sana

 

[ERoni]

Hoja nzuri mleta mada, lakini kabla mimi sijatia neno zaidi, nini maana ya neno "mbari" au "kimbari"?

 

[manumbu1]

Watusi walikuja kutokea wapi?? Watusi asili yao ni hapo hapo walipo kama vile Mnyarwanda yoyote yule! Hawajatokea popote pale ispokuwa hilo eneo waliopo leo hii sana sana kama kuhamia watakuwa walitoka Afrika ya Magharibi ambako ndiko Wabantu wote tulikotokea!

Watusi siyo ethnic group bali ni tabaka tu la Wanyarwanda wote watusi na wahutu na siyo kabila/ethnic bali ni watu wamoja wenye matabaka tofauti!

Aise weee Barbarosa ni mmbishi kweli unafundishwa unabisha hivi wewe ni muha? [emoji45] [emoji45] [emoji45] [emoji45]

 

[Kashindi]

Mleta mada anasema anatafuta mtu mwenye knowledge zaidi yake huku akiwa hajaeleza bayana knowledge yake inaanzia na kuishia wapi.
Kwa kifupi mauaji ya kimbari ni mauaji yanayohusianisha kundi moja na jingine.
Kwa rwanda ndio wanaongea lugha moja ila hapa ni issue ya ethnicity. Wahutu na watusi ni wanyarwanda wote ila wana tofauti kubwa. Kama ulisoma historia vizuri utakuta historia ya "unyarubanja na ubugabire" unaweza elewa vizuri dhana ya mauaji ya kimbari. Hapa ni kama kuna tabaka la watawala na watawaliwa. Mtumwa na mwenye mtumwa. Kwa muda mrefu watusi wamekuwa wakiwachukulia wahutu kama watumwa wao, au watumishi wao kitu ambacho kilisababisha unyonyaji uliozua hasira kati ya wahutu na mwishowe kuleta mauaji. Yalikuwa ni mauaji ya wahutu na watusi.
Sasa endelea kubisha huku hujui...

 

[Bia batta]

The iCross-Cultural Citizen Project – Our Indigenous World: (Tutsi & Hutu) – GROUP 14: November 2012

Thursday, November 29, 2012

POLITICS

A bloody history exists between the Hutu and Tutsi dating as far back as 1972 when the Tutsi army slaughtered 80,000 to 200,000 Hutus in Burundi, not to mention the genocide in Rwanda in 1994 where the Hutu military assassinated between 800,000 and 1 million Tutsi.

Actually the indigenous people of Rwanda are the African pygmy diminutive Twa, until the Hutu arrived fro mid-west Africa towards the end of the first millennium. the Bantu speaking invaders (Hutu) pushed the Twa farther back into the woods. the Tutsi arrived later during the fourteenth century from north-east Africa. the Hutu and Tutsi had several differences such as the fact that the Tutsi were herders and were likely to stick to the grasslands above the Hutu who generally preferred farming; they still exchanged much culture through their interactions. the Tutsi and the original Twa adopted the Bantu language of the Hutu and the Hutu adopted the political structure of the Tutsi. Over time the boundaries of the two cultures became blurred through marriage between the two groups.
HOUSING
Regarding everyday life the Hutu and Tutsi live in traditional domestic settings that run parallel with most homes, a family room, mother and father in the same bed etc. However, during the massacre that took place in Rwanda special accommodations had to be made for the Tutsi such as relocation and gathering in central locations such as hospitals, churches or stadiums. this soon became a problem when the national guard came bearing weapons and the Hutu militia began throwing hand grenades in to the living quarters of the Tutsi and shooting anybody down who ran out and anyone who remained alive in side was hacked to death with machetes.
Posted by Andres Orjuela at 2:25 AM No comments:
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[Barbarosa]

The iCross-Cultural Citizen Project – Our Indigenous World: (Tutsi & Hutu) – GROUP 14: November 2012

Thursday, November 29, 2012

POLITICS

A bloody history exists between the Hutu and Tutsi dating as far back as 1972 when the Tutsi army slaughtered 80,000 to 200,000 Hutus in Burundi, not to mention the genocide in Rwanda in 1994 where the Hutu military assassinated between 800,000 and 1 million Tutsi.

Actually the indigenous people of Rwanda are the African pygmy diminutive Twa, until the Hutu arrived fro mid-west Africa towards the end of the first millennium. the Bantu speaking invaders (Hutu) pushed the Twa farther back into the woods. the Tutsi arrived later during the fourteenth century from north-east Africa. the Hutu and Tutsi had several differences such as the fact that the Tutsi were herders and were likely to stick to the grasslands above the Hutu who generally preferred farming; they still exchanged much culture through their interactions. the Tutsi and the original Twa adopted the Bantu language of the Hutu and the Hutu adopted the political structure of the Tutsi. Over time the boundaries of the two cultures became blurred through marriage between the two groups.
HOUSING
Regarding everyday life the Hutu and Tutsi live in traditional domestic settings that run parallel with most homes, a family room, mother and father in the same bed etc. However, during the massacre that took place in Rwanda special accommodations had to be made for the Tutsi such as relocation and gathering in central locations such as hospitals, churches or stadiums. this soon became a problem when the national guard came bearing weapons and the Hutu militia began throwing hand grenades in to the living quarters of the Tutsi and shooting anybody down who ran out and anyone who remained alive in side was hacked to death with machetes.
Posted by Andres Orjuela at 2:25 AM No comments:
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Ndugu amka, unalishwa maneno na Wazungu ambao ndiyo hasa wanaosababisha yote haya na wewe unakubali?? Huyo anayekwambia kwamba Wahutu na Watusi ni watu tofauti ni Mzungu ambaye ndiye aliye sababisha mauaji ya Unyarwanda na wewe unakubali???
Ni sawa kesho waje hapa TZ waseme kwamba hawaa tunawaita Wanyamwezi ni Watusi na wametokea Ethiopia utakubali pia??

Acha kuwaamini wazungu namna hiyo, Wazungu siku zote wanatumia divide and rule hiyo ndiyo karata yao ili watawale watu milele, sasa wamekufundisha kwamba Watusi wametokea Ethiopia kwa hiyo siyo Wabantu wakati hakuna ushahidi wowote ule wa hilo si lugha wala DNA!
Watusi ni wabantu kwa 100%!

 

[Bia batta]

inaonekana uko ki-ushindani zaidi na si kutaka kujua, basi baki na unachofikiria ni sahihi...!!!

 

[Barbarosa]

inaonekana uko ki-ushindani zaidi na si kutaka kujua, basi baki na unachofikiria ni sahihi...!!!

inaonekana uko ki-ushindani zaidi na si kutaka kujua, basi baki na unachofikiria ni sahihi...!!!

Msikilize hapa Mlm.Nyerere anachokisema, kumbuka Mlm.Nyerere amesomea historia ya Kiafrika huko Scotland hivyo alielewa kuhusu Historia ya Afrika klk hawo Wazungu! Msikilize kwa makini sana ukipenda kuanzia dak ~ 02:08

Kuanzia dakika 02:08​

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