Prof. Shivji apinga sehemu ya hukumu ya kesi ya Lema

Prof. Shivji apinga sehemu ya hukumu ya kesi ya Lema

Kiranga said:
Na hao ndo tuliokopi sheria kwao, wenyewe wanasema hivyo!
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Yea, but the quote is in reference to "government departments and public authorities" not private individuals.

Further his decision above was overruled when the case went to the UK highest court.

Nonetheless, he insisted in a subsequent case, that "I must confess that whenever an ordinary citizen comes to the Court of Appeal and complains that this or that government department - or this or that local authority - or this or that trade union - is abusing or misusing its power - I always like to hear what he has to say" (emphasis added) - Lord Denning, The Discipline of Law, (1979), p. 144

In upholding the right of locus standi, Lord Denning did not stick to the traditional view of a "person aggrieved".

He evolved the concept of "sufficient interest of an applicant who approaches a court of law"

My question is how can a voter registered to vote and actually voted in Chake Chake, Pemba, can be said to have "sufficient interest" in a Parliamentary election held in Ngara? How can we establish such "sufficient interest"?
 
frank cain said:
Kiranga, 1. mgombea anatoa rushwa. ushahd upo ilahuruhusiw kupinga mahakaman. haikuhusu 2. una ushaid wa kuchakachua matokeo. usifungue kes maana utaulizwa si ulipiga kura? wawashwani? wasijue kuwa unapochakachua una-deflect kura yangu pia. tuachane na mambo ya WEW ULIPIGA KURA KWA UHURU kwa hyo subir matokeo tu au WEW HUKUPIGA KURA HAPA. haki ya Mtz yeyote isiishie jimbon pake tu au ktka kupiga kura tu. after all leo upo ilala kesho uko musoma. wagombea wa majimbo yote Tz lazma wafuate taratbu tulizojiwe
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Mifano mingine watu wanatoa kututoa kwenye mstari.

Rushwa inawaathiri wapiga kura ndio maana CCM wamepoteza Igunga. Sasa hili suala la Arusha mimi naona Dr. Batilda angefungua kesi mwenyewe au hata mme wake kwamba kutokana na kudhalilishwa alikosa nguvu za kuendelea na kampeni.
 
EMT said:
Yea, but the quote is in reference to "government departments and public authorities" not private individuals.

Further his decision above was overruled when the case went to the UK highest court.

Nonetheless, he insisted in a subsequent case, that "I must confess that whenever an ordinary citizen comes to the Court of Appeal and complains that this or that government department - or this or that local authority - or this or that trade union - is abusing or misusing its power - I always like to hear what he has to say" (emphasis added) - Lord Denning, The Discipline of Law, (1979), p. 144

In upholding the right of locus standi, Lord Denning did not stick to the traditional view of a "person aggrieved".

He evolved the concept of "sufficient interest of an applicant who approaches a court of law”

My question is how can a voter registered to vote and actually voted in Chake Chake, Pemba, can be said to have "sufficient interest" in a Parliamentary election held in Ngara? How can we establish such "sufficient interest"?
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To answer your question, the laws enacted by any MP from any constituent have consequences by jurisdiction over all the United Republic.

That alone ought to threshold sufficient interest.
 
gfsonwin said:
that's where the contradiction comes as te same law have been used for the past 30 yrs, leo inaoneka ni makosa haikuwa ya haki kwann isionekane kuwa na makosa muda wote huo?? na je hukumu ozte zilizo amuliwa kufuatana na sheria hiyo je zaweza kuibuliwa upya kwa kigezo kwamba zilitumia sheria iliyokosewa??
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Should a court, in a later case, decides that the legal ruling or reasoning in an earlier case was wrong, then it follows that the court is really saying that the earlier decision should not now be followed and the case is no longer considered to be good law.

Kwa nini haikuonekana kuwa na makosa muda wote huo? Kunaweza kuwa na sababu mbalimbali. Inawezekana hiyo kesi ya nyuma iliamuliwa na Mahakama Kuu na haikuweza kufika Mahakama ya Rufaa kwa njia ya rufaa or otherwise ili kutolewa uamuzi wa mwisho. Na kwa muda wote huo inawezekana hakuna kesi iliyokuwa na suala kama hili ilifika Mahakama ya Rufaa ili kuweza ku-address kesi ya nyuma.

Pia majaji ni human being kama watu wengine. They make mistakes. They're not perfect. Kama wakijikuta waliamua kimakosa huko nyuma it is right for them to correct the mistake to avoid further miscarriage of justice.

Kuhusu hukumu kama zilizoamuliwa kufuatana na sheria zinaweza kuibuliwa upya kwa kigezo kwamba zilitumia sheria iliyokosewa, kwa makosa ya madai sidhani. Though wrongly decided it was the binding and applicable law kwa wakati ule.

Sina uhakika kwa makosa ya jinai, though nimeshasoma baadhi ya kesi za jinai ambapo watu walifungwa gerezani based on a previous decision which was wrongly decided lakini wakaja kuachiwa baadae baada ya mahakama kuamua kuwa the previous case which was used as an authority was wrongly decided.

Pia ipo sheria kuwa, sheria mpya hai-apply kinyumenyume. Watanisahihisha wengine wenye jibu sahihi kwa hili swali.
 
Kiranga said:
To answer your question, the laws enacted by any MP from any constituent have consequences by jurisdiction over all the United Republic.

That alone ought to threshold sufficient interest.
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So, if a voter registered and voted in Chake Chake can bring an action against an MP elected in Ngara on that basis, should those who voted for him in Ngara also be allowed join in the action as co-defendants to defend their rights?
 
EMT said:
So, if a voter registered and voted in Chake Chake can bring an action against an MP elected in Ngara on that basis, should those who voted for him in Ngara also be allowed join in the action as co-defendants to defend their rights?
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Not only those in Ngara, but Temeke, Malampaka,Tandahimba and all over Tanzania.

This person is going to be an MP in the Bunge of Tanzania right? Not that of Ngara correct? The laws are going to be applicable all over Tanzania right? Not just in Ngara, correct?
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
I thought some laws can be applied retroactively....
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Yes some can. Basically, most constitutions prohibit retroactive laws. However, this prohibition does not apply to all laws.

The prohibition of retroactive laws has been interpreted as only to apply to punitive laws, not regulatory laws.

Thus, any law that would punish you for actions taken that were legal when the action was engaged in would be a prohibited retroactive law.

But any law that is regulatory, for example, registering as a sex offender or prohibition on a crime, ownership of guns, etc, would be legal.

Also, retrospective laws are legal when they confer a benefit on past acts. For example, if a law was enacted today that would abolish the death sentence that law could be applied retroactively to those who have been sentenced to death, even though technically it is retrospective law.
 
gfsonwin said:
kivipi NN??
manake mbona kama itakuwa ni hivyo basi kesi ambazo tayari zilisha fanyiwa rulling zitaanza upya??
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Na waathirika waliotangulia mbele ya haki itakuwaje ili wapate haki yao iliyonyimwa?
 
1. kabla ya kupiga kura kila kitu kiende vzuri. mpiga kura aone zoezi la kampen na matayarisho ya kuelekea kupiga kura yako vile ipasavyo na mambo yameendeshwa kistaarab 2. wakat wa kupiga kura kila mpiga kura ajiridhshe kuwa zoez lmeenda vzur na kwa uwaz 3. wakat wa kuhesabu kura kla mpiga kura aweze kuona zoez limetendeka kwa hak, ukwel na uwaz. MAMBO YA OVYO katka moja ya hatua hzo 3 yatakuja kusababisha tuchinjane sku moja. na hakutakuwepo na upande utakao shnda.
 
Kiranga said:
Anachosema Prof Shivji ndicho nilichosema mimi awali hapa, ukiondoa mfano wa kesi ya Chediel Mgonja.

Halafu angalia washabiki wa Lema watakavyokuja kijumlajumla bila uelewa wa nini kimepingwa.

Kimomogoro anachekesha. If anything mpiga kura anatakiwa awe na haki kuliko mgombea.
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Lakini hukumu ya aina hii niliitegemea kutokana na kampeni aliyoanzisha Lisu kwa kuishambulia Judiciary. I ll come later to explain
 
MpangoA said:
Mifano mingine watu wanatoa kututoa kwenye mstari.

Rushwa inawaathiri wapiga kura ndio maana CCM wamepoteza Igunga. Sasa hili suala la Arusha mimi naona Dr. Batilda angefungua kesi mwenyewe au hata mme wake kwamba kutokana na kudhalilishwa alikosa nguvu za kuendelea na kampeni.
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Lakini hata wapiga waliokuwa wakimuunga mkono wanaweza kunyong'onyea kutokana na matusi.
 
Kiranga said:
Not only those in Ngara, but Temeke, Malampaka,Tandahimba and all over Tanzania.

This person is going to be an MP in the Bunge of Tanzania right? Not that of Ngara correct? The laws are going to be applicable all over Tanzania right? Not just in Ngara, correct?
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In that case, then we should not only allow voters to sue, but also to be sued by other voters by joining in the action as co-defendants.

Those voters in Temeke, Malampaka, Tandahimba, etc should also step in as co- defendants in an action brought by a Chake Chake voter against a Ngara MP. Right?

Najaribu kufikiria haki ya watu wa Ngara ya kumchagua mwakilishi wao bungeni inaweza kupindinduliwa vipi na haki mtu mmoja kutoka Chake Chake kumshtaki mbunge waliomchagua hata kama haki ya huyo Mpemba haikuathiriwa.

Theoretically, naona kama ni argument nzuri but I can't see how this will be implemented in practice.

In representative democracies, leadership is premised on constituents electing representatives to the legislative body, delegating to these representatives the responsibility of forming a government, advising that government of their local interests and needs and monitoring the efforts that the government is making to satisfy these needs.
 
NGOGO CHINAVACH said:
Mimi nadhani mahakama ya rufani hoja yake ya msingi ingejikita katika uthibitisho je wale wapiga kura waliathiriwa vipi na mtokeo ya uchaguzi. Election has public interests.
Nakuhusu haki ya mpiga kura kushtaki mahakama ilitakiwa ieleze kwamba mpiga kura ataruhusiwa kufungua kesi endapo;
1. Haki ya mpiga kura binafsi zimeathiriwa.
2. Kama kuna vitendo vyovyote ambavyo vilifanyika na mpiga kura anaweza KUTHIBITISHA kwamba vitendo vile vilimuathiri yeye pamoja na uchaguzi kwa ujumla. Hapa akiwa na uwezo wa kuthibitsha alivyoathiriwa then he/she should have Locus stand.

N:B
Endapo kufungua kesi katika masuala ya uchaguzi itakuwa haki kamili ya mpiga kura bila kuonesha ni vipi ameathiriwa basi kutakuwa na mrundikano wa kesi ambazo zitakuwa zipo mahakaman muda mrefu maana huyu atakuwa anafungua kwa jambo hili, kesho mwingine ataibuka na jambo lingine na hii inatokana na siasa za Tanzania si za kidemokrasia bali za kukomoana.
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well said.
 
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