Rashid Othman: Umeshindwa Jiuzulu!

Rashid Othman: Umeshindwa Jiuzulu!

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Nadhani you guys are barking on a wrong tree. Nitarudia kusema kuwa R.O ni innocent kwenye hili na wewe mheshimiwa ambaye hupendi ni jadili mambo ya uslama wa Taifa naomba usinitumie PM

R.O ni innocent kabisaa sema tatizo hamtaki kuwataja waheshimiwa ambao wana msabotage..na sabotage dhidi yake ilianza from DAY 1 kila mtu analijua hili.

Issue nzima ya R.O huwa haijadiliwi based on facts lakini zaidi on elitism na mbaya zaidi ni kwa sababu the guy never went to any of the red brick universities

Ipo thread ilianzishwa na ICADON pamoja na REV kishoka tulijadili kwa kinaga ubaga mambo ya Usalama wa Taifa..

USALAMA WA TAIFA WAKO LIKIZO:

http://www.jamboforums.com/showthread.php?t=10207&highlight=TISS

na mindhali kuna watu wanataka tujadili issues then tunaomba msaada wa hii thread iwe merged na hii:

RASHID OTHMAN NDIYE BOSI USALAMA WA TAIFA

http://www.jamboforums.com/showthread.php?t=169&highlight=TISS

 
Nadhani you guys are barking on a wrong tree. Nitarudia kusema kuwa R.O ni innocent kwenye hili
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Mimi ninasema kuwa mkurugenzi wa usalama ajiuzulu kwa sababu:-

Deal ya Radar imefanyika yeye akiwa ndiye ofisa incharge wa usalama hapo ubalozi wetu London, sasa yeye alipaswa kuwa mstari wa mbele kwenye kuifahamisha ofisi yake, kuhusiana na hiyo deal, hatimaye habari zingefika kwa rais, kabla hajateua mawaziri ili asimteue Chenge kuwa waziri in the first place,

Sasa the fact kwamba Chenge amejiuzulu, kutokana na habari nzito za uchunguzi unaofanywa na wazungu, swali ni kwamba kwa nini sisi as a nation hatukujua hayo? Sasa anyehusika ni nani? Ni usalama wa taifa, na the good thing ni kwamba mkurugenzi wa sasa ndiye aliyekuwa muwakilishi wetu wa usalama pale, kwa hiyo yuko kwenye nafasi nzuri sana ya kutuelewesha kuwa ni kwa nini hakuweza kujua haya mapema?

Hakuna anyemchukia mkurugenzi, ambaye mimi binafsi wala simfahamu zaidi tu ya kujali utaifa na uwajibikaji, as a nation tumefika mahali sasa tumechoka sana na huu ufisadi, sasa hatuna national agenda tena imekuwa ufisadi tu, vipi kuhusu matatizo mengine muhimu ya taifa letu? Mahali aliposoma mkurugenzi wa sasa wa usalama has nothing to do na my call for his resignation, kwa sababu hata Chenge sijui alisoma shule ya matofali ya kuchoma au ya kupikwa, ninajua tu kuwa ni fasad,

Halafu pia sioni utetezi kwa mkurugenzi wa usalama wa taifa kutokujiuzulu kwa sababu, hata Dr. Slaa mbunge wa upinzani alishasema wazi tena mbele ya umma kuwa Chenge na wengine ni mafisadi, sasa wao kilichowashinda kufuatilia ni nini? Je waliwahi kumuita Dr. Slaa na kumuhoji kuhusiana na tuhuma zake, ambazo sasa inadhihirika kuwa zilikuwa ni za kweli? Hivi unafikiri hela zote tunazowapa usalama as a nation na hata kuwalipia maofisa wa usalama nje ya nchi ni kwa ajili ya nini?

Kujiuzulu kwa Chenge, sasa ni ukweli fika kuwa rais angefahamishwa mapema ufisadi wa Chenge mapema, na wanaohusika yaaani usalama wa taifa,asingempa uwaziri ndio imebidi ajiuzulu now baada ya habari hizi kuletwa kwetu na wazungu, sasa hivi kweli kuna hata haja ya kulumbana on this ishu kweli?
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
Icadon, umeuliza swali muhimu na tunaweza kuliweka katika mwanga wa kile kinachoitwa sera yetu ya mambo ya nje ijulikanayo sana kama "Diplomasia ya Kiuchumi".. Je, sera yetu ya Usalama wa Taifa inaweza kwa namna yoyote ile kureflect diplomasia ya Uchumi?
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Membe mwenye si ni spook....I guess watu wake wanaweza kuja kutusaidia kwenye haya maswala... Ukiniuliza Foreign Policy au National Security yetu ni ipi; Jibu ni SIIJUI.

Wale wanaowasiliana na wanasiasa, waambieni waache kuingiza siasa TISS.
 
Field Marshall ES said:
Mimi ninasema kuwa mkurugenzi wa usalama ajiuzulu kwa sababu:-

Deal ya Radar imefanyika yeye akiwa ndiye ofisa incharge wa usalama hapo ubalozi wetu London, sasa yeye alipaswa kuwa mstari wa mbele kwenye kuifahamisha ofisi yake, kuhusiana na hiyo deal, hatimaye habari zingefika kwa rais, kabla hajateua mawaziri ili asimteue Chenge kuwa waziri in the first place,

Sasa the fact kwamba Chenge amejiuzulu, kutokana na habari nzito za uchunguzi unaofanywa na wazungu, swali ni kwamba kwa nini sisi as a nation hatukujua hayo? Sasa anyehusika ni nani? Ni usalama wa taifa, na the good thing ni kwamba mkurugenzi wa sasa ndiye aliyekuwa muwakilishi wetu wa usalama pale, kwa hiyo yuko kwenye nafasi nzuri sana ya kutuelewesha kuwa ni kwa nini hakuweza kujua haya mapema?

Hakuna anyemchukia mkurugenzi, ambaye mimi binafsi wala simfahamu zaidi tu ya kujali utaifa na uwajibikaji, as a nation tumefika mahali sasa tumechoka sana na huu ufisadi, sasa hatuna national agenda tena imekuwa ufisadi tu, vipi kuhusu matatizo mengine muhimu ya taifa letu? Mahali aliposoma mkurugenzi wa sasa wa usalama has nothing to do na my call for his resignation, kwa sababu hata Chenge sijui alisoma shule ya matofali ya kuchoma au ya kupikwa, ninajua tu kuwa ni fasad,

Halafu pia sioni utetezi kwa mkurugenzi wa usalama wa taifa kutokujiuzulu kwa sababu, hata Dr. Slaa mbunge wa upinzani alishasema wazi tena mbele ya umma kuwa Chenge na wengine ni mafisadi, sasa wao kilichowashinda kufuatilia ni nini? Je waliwahi kumuita Dr. Slaa na kumuhoji kuhusiana na tuhuma zake, ambazo sasa inadhihirika kuwa zilikuwa ni za kweli? Hivi unafikiri hela zote tunazowapa usalama as a nation na hata kuwalipia maofisa wa usalama nje ya nchi ni kwa ajili ya nini?

Kujiuzulu kwa Chenge, sasa ni ukweli fika kuwa rais angefahamishwa mapema ufisadi wa Chenge mapema, na wanaohusika yaaani usalama wa taifa,asingempa uwaziri ndio imebidi ajiuzulu now baada ya habari hizi kuletwa kwetu na wazungu, sasa hivi keli kuna hata haja ya kulumbana on this ishu kweli?
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Nakubaliana na wewe mkuu lakini tunaweza kuiga mifano mingi tu ya namna ya kudeal na issue kama hii.Kwa mfano Wamarekani through all the scandals from watergate to whatever you can mention mara nyingi CIA ama FBI wamehusika..lakini wanadeal na situation bila ya kujali kuwa ni chama gani kiko madarakani!uwajibishwaji huchukua mkondo wake bila kuiteteresha nchi!
Ni wakati wa kukubaliana kuwa nothing will ever go wrong if at the end ni maslahi ya taifa na wananchi yamelindwa na kuwekwa mbele!Hiki ni kipindi muafaka cha ku revise where we're coming from,what we've achieved..and whether we know where we're going!..kuisoma na kuichambua katiba ya nchi yetu na kuona kwamba ni kwa namna gani maslahi ya taifa yatawekwa mbele..na ubainishaji wake wa hatua dhidi ya uhujumu wa uchumi na mali za taifa kwa kuaminishwa na wananchi!!kuona ni kwa vipi katiba inavyoweza kutumika inavyotakiwa..na kumlinda mwananchi wa kawaida!Its time to give it a serious thought!Its definetly a defining moment in the history of our country's politics!
 
Wale wanaowasiliana na wanasiasa, waambieni waache kuingiza siasa TISS.
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Mkuu Icadon,

Heshima mbele mkuu, unajua ninatoa tena heshima nzito kwako kwa mchango wako mzito kwenye hii topic, na ninaomba uelewe kuwa ninaichukulia very serious hii comment hapo juu,

Respect!
 
amendment to the TISS Act..............is urgently needed

1. Wapewe nguvu zaidi....na sio kushauri tu
2. suala la ajira yake pia liangaliwe kwa undani zaidi ikiwezekana wawe wanatangaza kwa baadhi ya nafasi
 
Icadon said:
Membe mwenye si ni spook....I guess watu wake wanaweza kuja kutusaidia kwenye haya maswala... Ukiniuliza Foreign Policy au National Security yetu ni ipi; Jibu ni SIIJUI.

Wale wanaowasiliana na wanasiasa, waambieni waache kuingiza siasa TISS.
Click to expand...

Wazee samahani kwa kuwatoa nje kidogo

Mkuu Icadon umecheck security ya Pope ilivyokuwa....hapa US.......na hapa nilikuwa namcheck live akiondoka.........aisee si mchezo......ilinikumbusha sana zile picha zako
 
Jamani,

Tusipotoke! Suala la kumkalia kooni RO si kwamba yeye ni fisadi bali ni process ya kuhakikisha accountability inafanyika!

Target yetu wote ni mkubwa anayetoa hivi vyeo, lakini ni sawa na kujaribu kuua tembo kwa mkuki. Kwa nini tusitumie mkuki kuulia Swala wanaoharibu mahindi yetu kwanza ambao ni wengi kuliko tembo?

Tukiacha kushupalia mambo ya uwajibikaji wa hawa wadogo, mnatarajia mkiondoa kichwa kikija kipya kutakuwa na matokeo gani? Inapokuwa sisi tunaweza kuwa wataalamu wa kukosoa na kuonyesha mianya ya uzembe na kukosekana uwajibikaji na kiongozi wetu akaendelea kutupuuzia pamoja na watendaji wake, ndipo tutaona kasoro kubwa zaidi.

Tusimpe RO free pass on this at all.

I will be more technical of what I percieve a Security Officer and especially a field or station chief like how RO was in London should be doing.

A job of Security officer and under act of establishment of TISS of 1996, is to gather and analyze all intelligent reports and information in regards to National interests and Tanzania's National Security.

If I were station in London, DC, Toronto, Nairobi, Moscow or Harare, my job would be to snoop all things that matter for the interest of my country and to provide caution or early warning signs on anything that is a threat and harmful to our Nation.

The procurement of Radar from BEA was something that involved National Security of Tanzania.

I am curios on how disconected was our London Station chief during the whole process of purchasing this radar.

  • Who recommended BEA products to GVTZ?
  • How did we get to have Shailesh Vithlani to be our middleman?
  • What security clearance did Vithlani had from TISS, JWTZ and Ikulu to secure a Security and millitary contract for us?
  • What was technical input from TISS and JWTZ including our London Station chief had in the whole process?
  • When WB, British Parliament and Cabinet raised a querry (before completion of the deal) of our purchase examining our financial ability, comparable products for better costs and coverage, where was our station chief or TISS snooping expertism to advise our government?
Yes the final say was with the Minister (Do you all recall what Kikwete said about this?), Cabinet and lastly President.

However since the corruption songs have been in our ears for the last 4 years, why TISS or London Station chief have been completely ineffective to launch criminal investigations if assumably their recommendations to the government were let say ignored?

How can a foreign investigation body work to uncover a corruption deal involving our government and its operatives and our chief intelligent officer who is responsible of our national security is silent?

Finally, what did RO and TISS know about this deal that they gave sound advise to Serikali and Cabinet and they were ignored?

We seriously look like fools especially when our president is crying like a child that we need a refund from BAE, that the item purchased was overpriced, while it is known as a fact that we were advised not to seal the deal, that we were warned about the purchase, that it is known that some of our government officials received kickbacks from BAE simply by agreeing to purchase this overpriced Radar!

It is time all heads on this deal roll!
 
Mzee Es,

Wanadai kuwa hili sual RO, wakati haya madili yanafanyika alikuwa mtu mdogo mno, ila wanakubali anaweza kuwajibishwa kwa kushindwa kumkatalia Rais kuteua hawa mafisad kwenye uwaziri. Ila wansema kamati ya bunge ya ulinzi na usalama inatakiwa imwite Apson aieleze ni nin i anakijua kuhusu haya movu yote tokea ya EPA.
Huyu anajua mengi saana na anweza kutusaidia kujua ni vipi Mkapa alikuwa anajua, na pia Mkapa aitwe na kamati hii kuhojiwa tena peupe
 
Ogah said:
Wazee samahani kwa kuwatoa nje kidogo

Mkuu Icadon umecheck security ya Pope ilivyokuwa....hapa US.......na hapa nilikuwa namcheck live akiondoka.........aisee si mchezo......ilinikumbusha sana zile picha zako
Click to expand...
Si nje ya mada kwa sana!nafikiri ni psychology inafanya kazi yake..kwani its true Pope alikuwa na security ya hali ya juu..huku na sisi tukipigania security ya hali ya juu dhidi ya njaa,magonjwa na rasilamali zetu!
 
Ogah said:
Wazee samahani kwa kuwatoa nje kidogo

Mkuu Icadon umecheck security ya Pope ilivyokuwa....hapa US.......na hapa nilikuwa namcheck live akiondoka.........aisee si mchezo......ilinikumbusha sana zile picha zako
Click to expand...

Mambo ya TISS yamenifanya ninyong'onyee kiaina, maana nimegundua tuna Idara nyeti lakini wengi wetu hatujui nini hasa wajibu wao.

Nimeiona, Nipe siku kadhaa nitakuwa na picha za hiyo kitu kule.
 
Yombayomba said:
Mzee Es,

Wanadai kuwa hili sual RO, wakati haya madili yanafanyika alikuwa mtu mdogo mno, ila wanakubali anaweza kuwajibishwa kwa kushindwa kumkatalia Rais kuteua hawa mafisad kwenye uwaziri. Ila wansema kamati ya bunge ya ulinzi na usalama inatakiwa imwite Apson aieleze ni nin i anakijua kuhusu haya movu yote tokea ya EPA.
Huyu anajua mengi saana na anweza kutusaidia kujua ni vipi Mkapa alikuwa anajua, na pia Mkapa aitwe na kamati hii kuhojiwa tena peupe
Click to expand...

He he!!!
Alikuwa mkuu wa kituo cha London, last time I checked(at least what I believe) ubalozi wetu wa Uingereza ni mmoja wa balozi zetu kubwa.

I guess inabidi tuanze tena kuangalia madaraja,
Wakati akiwa Chief wa kituo cha London alikuwa anareport kwa nani?
 
Icadon said:
He he!!!
Alikuwa mkuu wa kituo cha London, last time I checked(at least what I believe) ubalozi wetu wa Uingereza ni mmoja wa balozi zetu kubwa.

I guess inabidi tuanze tena kuangalia madaraja,
Wakati akiwa Chief wa kituo cha London alikuwa anareport kwa nani?
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Mkuu Icadon,

Pandora box has to be opened. For our country to make steady progress in development and bring back accountability, the Pandora Box has to bust open. Yes there will be blood, tears and teeth gnashing. However without those things to happen, we will never have a chance to have a positive reflection to shape up our new direction towards maendeleo na uwajibikaji.
 
Lakini TISS hawana uwezo wa kumvet mtu au hata kuandaa ripoti ya mtumishi yoyote wa serikali. Nimesikia mara nyingi kuwa wamefanya hivyo au wana "taarifa" au "faili" juu ya mtu fulani; nguvu hizo wamezitoa wapi? Kisheria hawana mamlaka ya kufanya hivyo wala kumuambia Rais juu ya Mtanzania yoyote maisha yake na wajibu wake kwa kadiri kwamba hauhusiani na usalama wa Taifa. Hawawezi kumuanzishia mtu faili alimradi wanafikiri wanaweza.

Icadon, nisaidi kwa ujuzi wako, nguvu ya wao kumvet au kutoa mapendekezo kwa Rais kuhusu uteuzi wa mtu yeyote wao wameitoa wapi?
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
Lakini TISS hawana uwezo wa kumvet mtu au hata kuandaa ripoti ya mtumishi yoyote wa serikali. Nimesikia mara nyingi kuwa wamefanya hivyo au wana "taarifa" au "faili" juu ya mtu fulani; nguvu hizo wamezitoa wapi? Kisheria hawana mamlaka ya kufanya hivyo wala kumuambia Rais juu ya Mtanzania yoyote maisha yake na wajibu wake kwa kadiri kwamba hauhusiani na usalama wa Taifa. Hawawezi kumuanzishia mtu faili alimradi wanafikiri wanaweza.

Icadon, nisaidi kwa ujuzi wako, nguvu ya wao kumvet au kutoa mapendekezo kwa Rais kuhusu uteuzi wa mtu yeyote wao wameitoa wapi?
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Kitengo gani kinachohusika na maswala ya Vetting?

Hawa TISS kazi zao nini hasa especially kitengo chao cha Internal Security? Wana hadi ofisi ambayo wananchi wote wanaweza kwenda kutoa taarifa/habari wanayoitilia shaka.
 
Rev. Kishoka said:
Jamani,

Tusipotoke! Suala la kumkalia kooni RO si kwamba yeye ni fisadi bali ni process ya kuhakikisha accountability inafanyika!

Target yetu wote ni mkubwa anayetoa hivi vyeo, lakini ni sawa na kujaribu kuua tembo kwa mkuki. Kwa nini tusitumie mkuki kuulia Swala wanaoharibu mahindi yetu kwanza ambao ni wengi kuliko tembo?

Tukiacha kushupalia mambo ya uwajibikaji wa hawa wadogo, mnatarajia mkiondoa kichwa kikija kipya kutakuwa na matokeo gani? Inapokuwa sisi tunaweza kuwa wataalamu wa kukosoa na kuonyesha mianya ya uzembe na kukosekana uwajibikaji na kiongozi wetu akaendelea kutupuuzia pamoja na watendaji wake, ndipo tutaona kasoro kubwa zaidi.

Tusimpe RO free pass on this at all.

I will be more technical of what I percieve a Security Officer and especially a field or station chief like how RO was in London should be doing.

A job of Security officer and under act of establishment of TISS of 1996, is to gather and analyze all intelligent reports and information in regards to National interests and Tanzania's National Security.

If I were station in London, DC, Toronto, Nairobi, Moscow or Harare, my job would be to snoop all things that matter for the interest of my country and to provide caution or early warning signs on anything that is a threat and harmful to our Nation.

The procurement of Radar from BEA was something that involved National Security of Tanzania.

I am curios on how disconected was our London Station chief during the whole process of purchasing this radar.

  • Who recommended BEA products to GVTZ?
  • How did we get to have Shailesh Vithlani to be our middleman?
  • What security clearance did Vithlani had from TISS, JWTZ and Ikulu to secure a Security and millitary contract for us?
  • What was technical input from TISS and JWTZ including our London Station chief had in the whole process?
  • When WB, British Parliament and Cabinet raised a querry (before completion of the deal) of our purchase examining our financial ability, comparable products for better costs and coverage, where was our station chief or TISS snooping expertism to advise our government?
Yes the final say was with the Minister (Do you all recall what Kikwete said about this?), Cabinet and lastly President.

However since the corruption songs have been in our ears for the last 4 years, why TISS or London Station chief have been completely ineffective to launch criminal investigations if assumably their recommendations to the government were let say ignored?

How can a foreign investigation body work to uncover a corruption deal involving our government and its operatives and our chief intelligent officer who is responsible of our national security is silent?

Finally, what did RO and TISS know about this deal that they gave sound advise to Serikali and Cabinet and they were ignored?

We seriously look like fools especially when our president is crying like a child that we need a refund from BAE, that the item purchased was overpriced, while it is known as a fact that we were advised not to seal the deal, that we were warned about the purchase, that it is known that some of our government officials received kickbacks from BAE simply by agreeing to purchase this overpriced Radar!

It is time all heads on this deal roll!
Click to expand...

Mkapa mwenyewe aliipitisha na Tony Blair aka back up hata katika bunge lake.

RO mikono yake ilifungwa unless tungekuwa na mtu powerful kama J.Edgar Hoover
 
Icadon, kitengo chochote au majukumu yoyote lazima yawe ndani ya sheria na ninaamini utakuwa umeisoma sheria ya TISS, kazi zao ni nini? Kitengo chochote ambacho ni nje ya sheria kitengo hicho kiko nje ya sheria. Kama hawana uwezo wa kisheria kufanya jambo fulani, kulifanya na kuunda kitendo kulifanya jambo hilo hata kama ni nia nzuri, vyote ni kinyume na sheria.

Wabadilishe sheria ili wahalalishe wanachokifanya vinginevyo waacha kufanya kitu kinyume cha sheria kana kwamba kilichoandikwa kwenye sheria ni "mapendekezo ya uundwaji wa TISS"
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
Lakini TISS hawana uwezo wa kumvet mtu au hata kuandaa ripoti ya mtumishi yoyote wa serikali. Nimesikia mara nyingi kuwa wamefanya hivyo au wana "taarifa" au "faili" juu ya mtu fulani; nguvu hizo wamezitoa wapi? Kisheria hawana mamlaka ya kufanya hivyo wala kumuambia Rais juu ya Mtanzania yoyote maisha yake na wajibu wake kwa kadiri kwamba hauhusiani na usalama wa Taifa. Hawawezi kumuanzishia mtu faili alimradi wanafikiri wanaweza.

Icadon, nisaidi kwa ujuzi wako, nguvu ya wao kumvet au kutoa mapendekezo kwa Rais kuhusu uteuzi wa mtu yeyote wao wameitoa wapi?
Click to expand...


Jamaa wana data nyingi kwa kifupi rais anatotaka kuteua mtu inabidi aangalie historia yake ya kazi kutoka idara ya utumishi pili anauliza taarifa za kijasusi kutoka usalama kuhusu huyo mtu if any.
Unauliza kuwa wametoa wapi nguvu ya kuwa na taarifa ya mtu sasa kwani kazi yao nini ?Ladba pia tupate tafsiri ya usalama ama ujasusi!kama wewe ni suspectible kwao basi wana file lako lenye data zako.Kwa kifupi ni kama vile police clearance report ,wanachukua finger print kuangalia kama uliwahi kuwa mteja wao,ndio kadharika na rais anacho chukua kutoka huko taarifa kama zipo sio lazima kuchunguza kama haupo kwao basi uwezekano mkubwa u safi.

Jamaa ndio maana wana watu wao wengi kwenye ma bank kwa kuwa ukiwa account inayokuwa haraka you're more subject to their investigation.Maana michezo michafu ndio yenye pesa kama rushwa ,ufisadi ,madawa n.k

Act 1996 part 5(2) ya TISS imesema si juu yao to enforce measure of security ie,its up to the government they just collect necessary inf.about that.(Kama vile laws are enforced at the court but police do the needful to gather necessary inf.)
Na pia inaongelea si juu yao kufutilia raia mwema habari zake kwa sababu za lawful protest.Ndio hapo tu halipo katazwa
 
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