Should we create a Wealthy community or create rich people?

[Shamu]

In an economic point of view yes we do need rich people. How does the government get funds to run itself and different programs? The answer is tax. How do you get more tax? The richer a person is the more tax they will pay. I believe if we had a few very rich people who could fund different social programs through their tax money then we all benefit. Tatizo lina kuja kwamba, hizo kodi zita tumika kwa namna itakayo nufaisha wananchi wote au wajanja wachache tu ndiyo wataishia kunufaika? Here we now see that corruption & bad governance sets us back. Know matter how good our visions are, no matter how ambitious we as a nation are, if we don't have good governance then all how hard work, planning etc will be for nothing. Ni mtazamo tu.

You don't need rich people to pay higher taxes in order to funds the gov. programs. This will be a distribution of income, which is related to socialism system. All we need is lower taxes to everyone including those big corporations and wealthy people. It is stupid for any gov. to depends on taxes. Remember, we need small efficient gov.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Mh...in neither of my posts did i say that the govt shldn't do anything! Kama wewe umeelewa hivyo...pole sana! What wld be the point of the govt, kama sio kuhakikisha the game is played fairly? My point was..."What r u actually doing about it", au ni kubaki ukipigana na keyboard? Well i guess u missed it! As most others mtaendelea kupigana na keyboards mkipeana 'thanks', huku mkijifanya wajuaji!
I repeat, i dont see the point of me debating with you how far the govt shld interfere into individual private property rights. Whether u want to extend the definition of property into the so called 'new property' i.e: welfare rights, as proposed by Reich, etc...it's all up to you! But sincerely...such a debate wld not help to change the life of an ordinary Tanzanian. What we need is more action, and stop crying or waiting for the govt.

Mh... well dont flatter ur self debating with me au nikupeleke shule. Si unaona how much limititaion ilyokuwepo kwako. Who said the government has to intervine that much.

The idea here is we have a demand and a supply curve that meet at the high end of social affordability. Therefore it does not cater for the social market but a niche that can afford it.

Ndio unaona watu wengi ni maskini and can not afford many items in their conrner shop be it not onregularly bases.

Kuna highly unemployment so far the government strategy is to tackle the problem through foreign investment. But these cant solve the problem of unemployed masses, hivyo the government as to come with innovative ways to create jobs.

Kuna njaa kwa watu wake hivyo serikali has to come with a way of eliminating this problem

Kuna ardhi ya serikali ambayo imezagaa ni waste of asset hivyo serikali inabidi ije na njia yenye faida kuitumia.

Tuna watu kibao na wapo wanazagaa hovyo serikali inabidi ije na mbinu ya kuwawajibisha. All these problems and manyothers the government has to come up with policies and a strategy to deal with them.

Go figure out what other roles the government has to be responsible for and not your property rights thinking.

Like i said there's still alot of naivity on ya side ila kujidai tu mkuu.

 

[Ndahani]

Nafikiri tuige njia ya Prof Chitamu wa sasatel.Tukianzisha sasatel nyingi hapa tunaweza kubalance equation na hawa mafisadi

 

[Rev. Kishoka]

Where is Zakumi, Companero and Bin Maryam includin Mkandara waje tulonge hapa?

Even Kuhani a.k.a Dilunga would have been useful au unasemaje MTOTO?

 

[Koba]

Tatizo ni rushwa tuu mengine hayo hayana maana kama rushwa itaendelea kuwepo!

 

[Chapakazi]

Mh... well dont flatter ur self debating with me au nikupeleke shule. Si unaona how much limititaion ilyokuwepo kwako. Who said the government has to intervine that much.

The idea here is we have a demand and a supply curve that meet at the high end of social affordability. Therefore it does not cater for the social market but a niche that can afford it.

Ndio unaona watu wengi ni maskini and can not afford many items in their conrner shop be it not onregularly bases.

Kuna highly unemployment so far the government strategy is to tackle the problem through foreign investment. But these cant solve the problem of unemployed masses, hivyo the government as to come with innovative ways to create jobs.

Kuna njaa kwa watu wake hivyo serikali has to come with a way of eliminating this problem

Kuna ardhi ya serikali ambayo imezagaa ni waste of asset hivyo serikali inabidi ije na njia yenye faida kuitumia.

Tuna watu kibao na wapo wanazagaa hovyo serikali inabidi ije na mbinu ya kuwawajibisha. All these problems and manyothers the government has to come up with policies and a strategy to deal with them.

Go figure out what other roles the government has to be responsible for and not your property rights thinking.

Like i said there's still alot of naivity on ya side ila kujidai tu mkuu.

hahaha! Eti dont flatter myself with a debate with u!!hahaha! Funny stuff really! From ur answer...I guess hujui tofauti kati ya creation of wealth na creation of riches. Anyway...let me not flatter myself by debating with u! Maana I dont think u even understand the basis of property rights and its link to wealth creation! Umekimbilia kutaja matatizo, sijui umaskini, connershop, nk....huku umesahau the basis of the discussion. kama wadhani najidai...kila la kheri. Am not here to make friends, but to gather some ideas in how i can help my country.

 

[Eric Cartman]

hahaha! Eti dont flatter myself with a debate with u!!hahaha! Funny stuff really! From ur answer...I guess hujui tofauti kati ya creation of wealth na creation of riches. Anyway...let me not flatter myself by debating with u! Maana I dont think u even understand the basis of property rights and its link to wealth creation! Umekimbilia kutaja matatizo, sijui umaskini, connershop, nk....huku umesahau the basis of the discussion. kama wadhani najidai...kila la kheri. Am not here to make friends, but to gather some ideas in how i can help my country.

Ungekua muelevu ungeelewa mbona wapo wasomi wengi tu tayari, na nothing is happening. One more ataleta tofauti gani. Na hizo pumba sijui gani hapo ulizo andika ambazo azina bases yoyote kwenye kusaidia taifa.

Unadhani elimu yako tu binafisi (ya foundation degree) ndio itaondoa matatizo ambayo ni complicated. Ni gunia la taifa na si la mtu labda uanze kujifunza na Macro-ecomics.

Na si kuja kuandika andika pumba humu wengi wanasoma. Si staajabu uelewi nilicho kiweka. Kulikua na mtego wa economic explanation pale, umekimbilia kuandika umaskini ndio unachosoma not what you reason na kuelewa the main idea pale again ina elezea tatizo gani. Usione vinaelewa vimeundwa.

Yeah dude is right Miafrika Ndivyo Ilivyo.

Kupenda Kujiongopea na kutokua Mikweli kwenye Mitatizo Yao.

Kila kitu ni Black and White tu kwao

 

[Chapakazi]

Ungekua muelevu ungeelewa mbona wapo wasomi wengi tu tayari, na nothing is happening. One more ataleta tofauti gani. Na hizo pumba sijui gani hapo ulizo andika ambazo azina bases yoyote kwenye kusaidia taifa.

Unadhani elimu yako tu binafisi (ya foundation degree) ndio itaondoa matatizo ambayo ni complicated. Ni gunia la taifa na si la mtu labda uanze kujifunza na Macro-ecomics.

Na si kuja kuandika andika pumba humu wengi wanasoma. Si staajabu uelewi nilicho kiweka. Kulikua na mtego wa economic explanation pale, umekimbilia kuandika umaskini ndio unachosoma not what you reason na kuelewa the main idea pale again ina elezea tatizo gani. Usione vinaelewa vimeundwa.

Yeah dude is right Miafrika Ndivyo Ilivyo.

Kupenda Kujiongopea na kutokua Mikweli kwenye Mitatizo Yao.

Kila kitu ni Black and White tu kwao

JC with much respect...again u fail to understand me! Naona umeshindwa kuelewa the real issue sasa unaanza personal attacks. But yet again...mimi sijali! Kama unadhani it will make you the bigger person kunipa foundation degree...nipe certificate kabisa. By the way...my sceen name is MTOTO so i might still be in kindergarten...Hahahahahaha!
Wabongo bwana...kazi kweli kweli. Kupeana sifa online mkidhani it makes you a better person!

Anyway, the question remain...What are you doing about it?
so plz...refer back to my earlier post...then u will understand what am all about!!!

Alafu unadai umeweka mtego wa uchumi...hahahhaha. funny stuff. My argument remains...the swahili language fails to differentiate between a rich person (tajiri) and a wealthy person (tajiri). Go figure...

 

[Eric Cartman]

JC with much respect...again u fail to understand me! Naona umeshindwa kuelewa the real issue sasa unaanza personal attacks. But yet again...mimi sijali! Kama unadhani it will make you the bigger person kunipa foundation degree...nipe certificate kabisa. By the way...my sceen name is MTOTO so i might still be in kindergarten...Hahahahahaha!
Wabongo bwana...kazi kweli kweli. Kupeana sifa online mkidhani it makes you a better person!

Anyway, the question remain...What are you doing about it?
so plz...refer back to my earlier post...then u will understand what am all about!!!

Alafu unadai umeweka mtego wa uchumi...hahahhaha. funny stuff. My argument remains...the swahili language fails to differentiate between a rich person (tajiri) and a wealthy person (ta.jiri). Go figure...

Mh, kama i offended you nisamehe, lakini you have to watch ur writing too zinakuja na alot of sarcasim. Some of us will respond to what the other is saying.

The issue hapa is not clear to you inavyo onekana maybe usome tena headline ya Rev. should we create rich people or a wealthy society. Therefore this is not just about defining rich and wealthy its about society welfare and individuals in society they differ. Ndio maana kuna baadhi ya commenters wakakwaba it wont be fair to tax other kwa faida ya jamii, hao waliompata rev. na kutumia implications zake hii ni moja ya namna ambayo unaweza fanya haya mambo.

My argument has long been social wealthy, na hii si socialism kwa sababu we are still a developing nation. Hivyo kuna alot of wealthy kwenye chi yetu na tuna chansi ya kutengeneza matajiri wengi at the same time, lakini the government has to have the right ideas and policies. Lazima uelewe thamani ya ardhi and how to capitalise on it.

Therefore the circles have to be broken, amna anae kataa ya kwamba ya you can do something to improve your situation. Lakini kuna ambao hawawezi fanya hivyo. Kwa hivyo we hupo kwenye mduara mwingine, lakini Juma wa mapipa anategemea either mkopo wa serikali ajisomeshe na ili aweze lipa lazima apate ajira sasa mimi na wewe tuta ajiri wangapi ktk jamii ambayo inasemekana 2/3 of 40 million is in poverty and even that safe proportion 1/3 has a huge number of people still classified has being in relative poverty. hivyo we are poor na huo ndio ukweli wenyewe.

Unaweza ukajisaidia wewe mwenyewe hamna anae kubishia. lakini ukweli wa mambo amna mtu kati yetu anaeweza kulisaidia taifa kwa ujumla na kutatua matatizo yote. We are very poor, lakini ukubwa ni kwa kujitakia with poor government strategies and policies. Therefore the issue is not you being able to do something for yourself. What about those without the means to stand for themselves even though they want to fend for themselves.

Na mwisho yes pale kulikua na explanation yaani ungegundua mtu akikwambia demand and supply meet at the high end of social market, ujue kwamba vitu avitengenezwi vingi kutosha society, na kuna sababu nyingi hapo (ni wewe kuzijua) lakini the outcome ni kwamba watu hawapati mahitaji. sasa we umeona poverty na cornershop tu kwa kuisoma lakini umeshindwa kuelewa kwamba imetokana na explanation on the earlier paragraph.

Elewa kwanza ndio utajua shughuli iliyopo tanzania ni kubwa na si ya mimi na wewe bali ni ya quick government intervention na wakifanya mchezo EAC members watawazidi kete na kulamba ardhi. Rwanda leo wanajikuta wanataka kutanuka nchi ina watu wengi amna ardhi ya kuleta new investenment kenya is in similar situation yao walimpa mzungu long time, sasa wanajua umuhimu wake wanaitaka ya tanzania. Tukija shtukia umuhimu wake ipo kwenye hands of investors and there's nothing we can do to get it back, au utakua Zimbambwe. No wonder south africa with all it wealth most black south africans still, live in favella's.

Well im not your tutor go figure out other staffs for your self, na si kuja kuchanganya mambo, embu jiulize tena where does property rights fit in all this.

CIAO.

 

[Chapakazi]

Mh, kama i offended you nisamehe, lakini you have to watch ur writing too zinakuja na alot of sarcasim. Some of us will respond to what the other is saying.

The issue hapa is not clear to you inavyo onekana maybe usome tena headline ya Rev. should we create rich people or a wealthy society. Therefore this is not just about defining rich and wealthy its about society welfare and individuals in society they differ. Ndio maana kuna baadhi ya commenters wakakwaba it wont be fair to tax other kwa faida ya jamii, hao waliompata rev. na kutumia implications zake hii ni moja ya namna ambayo unaweza fanya haya mambo.

My argument has long been social wealthy, na hii si socialism kwa sababu we are still a developing nation. Hivyo kuna alot of wealthy kwenye chi yetu na tuna chansi ya kutengeneza matajiri wengi at the same time, lakini the government has to have the right ideas and policies. Lazima uelewe thamani ya ardhi and how to capitalise on it.

Therefore the circles have to be broken, amna anae kataa ya kwamba ya you can do something to improve your situation. Lakini kuna ambao hawawezi fanya hivyo. Kwa hivyo we hupo kwenye mduara mwingine, lakini Juma wa mapipa anategemea either mkopo wa serikali ajisomeshe na ili aweze lipa lazima apate ajira sasa mimi na wewe tuta ajiri wangapi ktk jamii ambayo inasemekana 2/3 of 40 million is in poverty and even that safe proportion 1/3 has a huge number of people still classified has being in relative poverty. hivyo we are poor na huo ndio ukweli wenyewe.

Unaweza ukajisaidia wewe mwenyewe hamna anae kubishia. lakini ukweli wa mambo amna mtu kati yetu anaeweza kulisaidia taifa kwa ujumla na kutatua matatizo yote. We are very poor, lakini ukubwa ni kwa kujitakia with poor government strategies and policies. Therefore the issue is not you being able to do something for yourself. What about those without the means to stand for themselves even though they want to fend for themselves.

Na mwisho yes pale kulikua na explanation yaani ungegundua mtu akikwambia demand and supply meet at the high end of social market, ujue kwamba vitu avitengenezwi vingi kutosha society, na kuna sababu nyingi hapo (ni wewe kuzijua) lakini the outcome ni kwamba watu hawapati mahitaji. sasa we umeona poverty na cornershop tu kwa kuisoma lakini umeshindwa kuelewa kwamba imetokana na explanation on the earlier paragraph.

Elewa kwanza ndio utajua shughuli iliyopo tanzania ni kubwa na si ya mimi na wewe bali ni ya quick government intervention na wakifanya mchezo EAC members watawazidi kete na kulamba ardhi. Rwanda leo wanajikuta wanataka kutanuka nchi ina watu wengi amna ardhi ya kuleta new investenment kenya is in similar situation yao walimpa mzungu long time, sasa wanajua umuhimu wake wanaitaka ya tanzania. Tukija shtukia umuhimu wake ipo kwenye hands of investors and there's nothing we can do to get it back, au utakua Zimbambwe. No wonder south africa with all it wealth most black south africans still, live in favella's.

Well im not your tutor go figure out other staffs for your self, na si kuja kuchanganya mambo, embu jiulize tena where does property rights fit in all this.

CIAO.

Mh, mimi sina kware na wewe. My post may have had sarcasms...and am sorry for that too.
What you are saying is economically right. But with all due respect, nadhani ume-misinterp the meaning of wealth. Uwezo wa kununua chakula na kadhalika sio wealth. Wealth arises from ownership of factors of production. Na ndio hapo mimi ninaongelea kuhusu property rights. Maana ukiweza ku-own kitu kisheria, basi utaweza kukitumia kwa ufasaha katika uzalishaji. Mojawapo ya factors of production ni land, lakini kuna vitu vingine vingi sana including ideas - i.e.: Intellectual Property - katika field tunaziita IP. Nadhani itabidi usome some vitabu ya yule nanga Trump.

Can you create a wealthy society? - i dont think so. Maana kuna watu ambao wao ni wawajibikaji tu. Na kuna watu wenye uwezo wa ku-own vitu. Na hii sio depend on money, but brains. The only thing the govt shld do is to ensure there are sufficient laws to protect property owners. Hii ina-link na idea ya investors, nk. Too broad a topic to cover here, unless mnilipe...hehehe.
Watu waliorukia taxes na kadhalika, nadhani wame-misinterp the issue in Rev's statement, unless he meant something different from my understanding. But anyway...that's the way i see it. Kwangu mimi wealth is created through ownership of factors of production. It is that simple! You cannot create a wealth society, but you can motivate people to become wealthy. Haya mambo ya connershop, demand and supply, nk - i simply dont see how they fit in. Nimesoma post haraka, but will try to go through it slowly kesho. Na kama nimekosea nitasahihisha hii post yangu.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Mh, mimi sina kware na wewe. My post may have had sarcasms...and am sorry for that too.
What you are saying is economically right. But with all due respect, nadhani ume-misinterp the meaning of wealth. Uwezo wa kununua chakula na kadhalika sio wealth. Wealth arises from ownership of factors of production. Na ndio hapo mimi ninaongelea kuhusu property rights. Maana ukiweza ku-own kitu kisheria, basi utaweza kukitumia kwa ufasaha katika uzalishaji. Mojawapo ya factors of production ni land, lakini kuna vitu vingine vingi sana including ideas - i.e.: Intellectual Property - katika field tunaziita IP. Nadhani itabidi usome some vitabu ya yule nanga Trump.

Can you create a wealthy society? - i dont think so. Maana kuna watu ambao wao ni wawajibikaji tu. Na kuna watu wenye uwezo wa ku-own vitu. Na hii sio depend on money, but brains. The only thing the govt shld do is to ensure there are sufficient laws to protect property owners. Hii ina-link na idea ya investors, nk. Too broad a topic to cover here, unless mnilipe...hehehe.
Watu waliorukia taxes na kadhalika, nadhani wame-misinterp the issue in Rev's statement, unless he meant something different from my understanding. But anyway...that's the way i see it. Kwangu mimi wealth is created through ownership of factors of production. It is that simple! You cannot create a wealth society, but you can motivate people to become wealthy. Haya mambo ya connershop, demand and supply, nk - i simply dont see how they fit in. Nimesoma post haraka, but will try to go through it slowly kesho. Na kama nimekosea nitasahihisha hii post yangu.

Mh, Kwanza unakuja na kiburi utaki ku-debate, then unaendelea na ubishi. Like i said i'm not your tutor.

Ila kwa sababu ni mtanzania mwenzangu ntakusaidia mawazo, purely for economical reasons ( you figure that out). Others wont do this freely (you figure that out) why?

First you have to understand economic is science, like any science it aims to expalin through facts.

Sasa kwenye society where there is poverty try and underline the reasons. Na si kwa namna unayotaka wewe, bali the reasons associated with that particular society. That is to say a developing nation strategy, shouldnt imitate everything a developed one does. Yeah I know its complicated and they havent taught you that at school.

But you have to understand, for them (developed nations) transition from agricultural to industrial was a swift one due to the infastructure that was there already ie a well a governance sytem, scholars, laws and understanding of how best to improve growth in a nation (adam smith and david ricardo, were of this era) this tells you how advanced they were already you could argue they were pre-prepared by chance.

When you come to look up to our economy particulary Tanznania with all the assets we luck the system to develop, ie the above mentioned factors. Sasa you cant jump to property rights straight up when, we dont even those kind of people in our nation to protect. That is not to say its not essential, Patents are there for a reason all over the world. But i duobt if we have home grown scholars or entrepreneurs who could synthesize anything for you to be so concerned with property rights under current Tanzania economics.

Kama utaelewa the main important factors of economics land, labour, capital and enterprenurship (this is where you might argue about ur externality).

Returning to simple economics, Tanzania ingekua ni kisiwa ambacho hakina ardhi ya kutosha na umaskini uliokuwepo sasa tungesema we are doomed.

Lakini we are the opposite vast land left unused. Na hapa ndipo economists watakwambia poor policies why?

How well do you use the land
What are your stategies in exploit ur resources
How do you aim to make people in your society participate in the growth
and all other economics reasons

From there kaazi ndio inaanza na mipango ndio inaingia kama utataka kuwalinda inventors (with ur property) lazima uje na strategy regardless ya ku-maximize output (one being a monolpoly), but the main idea is to nurture economic growth of the society. Therefore kwenye umaskini na kuna ardhi lazima utafute sababu zake na jinsi ya ku-resolve. Thatswhere economists come to offer us ideas zao.

Since we are poor, and we have the resources to grow economical, it means there's room for national wealthy ie employment, investors, inventors and the economic growth.