Napajua Kenya, nimeishi na Wakenya na huwezi kunidanganya chochote kuhusu Kenya. Uchumi wa Afrika ni 'informal' wala hauwezi kupimwa na Wazungu bali kwa hali halisi tunazojionea. Watu wengi hawaweki pesa benki wala hawalipi kodi kwa hiyo GDP na takwimu nyingine kuhusu Afrika ni kujidanganya.Hauna la kupinga.....wewe unajua lipi kuwashinda UN na AfDB na IMF na WFP?
Mimi nimewanukuu tu, sio kujidanganya.
Kama hizo zote ni porojo, tupe ukweli wako, accompanied with proofs, sio zile porojo za vijiweni!
Tabia yenyu kupinga takwimu mkiona haziwapendelei. Haya yote kutoka kwenu tumeyazoea.Napajua Kenya, nimeishi na Wakenya na huwezi kunidanganya chochote kuhusu Kenya. Uchumi wa Afrika ni 'informal' wala hauwezi kupimwa na Wazungu bali kwa hali halisi tunazojionea. Watu wengi hawaweki pesa benki wala hawalipi kodi kwa hiyo GDP na takwimu nyingine kuhusu Afrika ni kujidanganya.
You are very right, in Africa we have a good number of unrecorded transactions and unregistered businesses. The IMF and other Washington consensus have never provided the true picture of African economy. I'm groomed in rural areas, where we consumed a lot of goods which have never been recorded or expressed in monetary term. Eg water from a spring, milk from our cows, bananas, coms, maize, kidney beans etc from our farms, all these things consumed if you spell them in cash term exceed the threshold ratio of poverty. Our economies operate in extra legal fashion in such a way that it's a bit treaky to document them. About Kenya to be out of LDC list, I think that is the wishful thinking. Because if one examine the parameters and other KPI that qualify the country to belong in the LDC list, in final analysis one finds that Kenya meets or qualifies the list.Napajua Kenya, nimeishi na Wakenya na huwezi kunidanganya chochote kuhusu Kenya. Uchumi wa Afrika ni 'informal' wala hauwezi kupimwa na Wazungu bali kwa hali halisi tunazojionea. Watu wengi hawaweki pesa benki wala hawalipi kodi kwa hiyo GDP na takwimu nyingine kuhusu Afrika ni kujidanganya.
The challenge is for you to produce stats, not to attack the govt ones or those from intl bodies.It seems that kenyans produce and update stats regularly. Stats are important for development.You are very right, in Africa we have a good number of unrecorded transactions and unregistered businesses. The IMF and other Washington consensus have never provided the true picture of African economy. I'm groomed in rural areas, where we consumed a lot of goods which have never been recorded or expressed in monetary term. Eg water from a spring, milk from our cows, bananas, coms, maize, kidney beans etc from our farms, all these things consumed if you spell them in cash term exceed the threshold ratio of poverty. Our economies operate in extra legal fashion in such a way that it's a bit treaky to document them. About Kenya to be out of LDC list, I think that is the wishful thinking. Because if one examine the parameters and other KPI that qualify the country to belong in the LDC list, in final analysis one finds that Kenya meets or qualifies the list.
I have seen similar arguments by u Tanzanians here before, attempting to cast aspersions against these stats that we present here. And I have always responded to them thus: that it is the same 'flawed' methodologies of carrying out those surveys in Tanzania, in Nigeria or in SA that were also applied in Kenya. And they have all always consistently given the same results, indicating that Kenya is ahead of Tanzania in many aspects. Many other organizations have conducted their own studies using their own procedures, and their results have also quite consistently given the similar results- of which country is ahead or behind the other in what facets under study, though varying in percentages given by the others.You are very right, in Africa we have a good number of unrecorded transactions and unregistered businesses. The IMF and other Washington consensus have never provided the true picture of African economy. I'm groomed in rural areas, where we consumed a lot of goods which have never been recorded or expressed in monetary term. Eg water from a spring, milk from our cows, bananas, coms, maize, kidney beans etc from our farms, all these things consumed if you spell them in cash term exceed the threshold ratio of poverty. Our economies operate in extra legal fashion in such a way that it's a bit treaky to document them. About Kenya to be out of LDC list, I think that is the wishful thinking. Because if one examine the parameters and other KPI that qualify the country to belong in the LDC list, in final analysis one finds that Kenya meets or qualifies the list.
Those NGO's have to overstate their figures like that in order to attract more funds from donors to assist the supposedly so many pipo in desperate need. That is why their activities here have always been put to question.Thanks Iconoclastes for debunking the myth of the 1million pipoz in Kibera.I have always known it to be true, by mere inspection.
acha ujing.aMimi nilidhani Tanzania ni land of milk and honey hamna umaskini kila mtu tajiri.
Iconoclastes and your fellow, I can say that I'm very fortunate to work with the WB and IMF. Those issues I mentioned above are the universally accepted critics on the WB and IMF research. I have been working with funds in different parts of the world. The same arguments are put forward. Most of the papers economy does not give the mood on the ground. For instance UK has the big economy compared to Norway or Sweden. But if you look on the welfare of citizens, those Scandinavians countries are very far ahead. Squarely the same, the economy of Kenya doesn't depict the truth on the ground. The country has a big number of people who live in miserable life, a lot of people are fleeing the country, class struggle etc. Those are some of the characters LDC. To surpass Tanzania doesn't not make Kenya to be out of LDC list.
mr walker! what did u have for supper tonight? dogs i suppose, bcoz your amateurish argument surely stinks..You're very lucky that I am actually putting up an intelligent argument with you. I stopped doing that with most Tanzanians here because most of them lack knowledge and argue like Primary School kids. I will take your arguments one by one.
1. Your argument about Norway and UK is misplaced. You see, the UK has a much bigger economy according to those statistics. But the same statistics do mention that the UK has a lower GDP per capita (due to higher population) than Norway, a lower HDI than Norway, a lower living standard than Norway, can't match the population welfare of Norway and scores worse than Norway on ALL HUMAN DEVELOPMENT STATISTICS according to the same WB and IMF statistics. Using the UK-Norway example on Kenya and Tanzania is false at best and ridiculous at worst. That argument would be valid if we were comparing Kenya to Mauritius, not Kenya to Tanzania. See, Kenya has a slightly smaller population yet a bigger economy, better welfare, higher salaries, higher HDI, better infrastructure, higher literacy, generally better schools and ranks better than Tanzania in MOST human development statistics.
2. Both Tanzania and Kenya are developing countries. They are both poor countries but arguing that that invalidates the fact that Kenya is ahead of Tanzania is absurd. You've seen your countrymen pop up from nowhere on every thread on this forum posting pictures of slums in Kenya to 'prove' Kenya is worse than Tanzania. You see, for a country to be ahead of another country, it doesn't have to solve all problems it has, it doesn't have to have everyone living an awesome life. If we argued that way we could also say China and Brazil and South Africa are neither ahead of Tz or out of the LDC simply because they hve millions of people living miserable lives. See? That doesn't make sense at all. Kenya just needs to be ahead of Tz for it to be ahead of Tz. Kenya has more millionaires, more middle class and less people living below the poverty line than Tanzania. It has a better electricity connection, a higher number of people with access to social ammenities and 'luxuries' such as Cars, TVs etc than Tz, it has better education facilities than Tz and better more organized cities and meets the criteria to be a non LDC country. That puts it ahead of Tz.
Please, go argue with the Primary School kids you're used to and come back when you can at least string a grammatically correct sentence coherently. I only argue with smart people.mr walker! what did u have for supper tonight? dogs i suppose, bcoz your amateurish argument surely stinks..
NairobiWalker, how do u explain the hunger situation in Kenya? Any middle income country facing hunger like Kenya? And how about WB data that puts Kenya per capita under one $ a day way higher than Tanzania?
I was expecting this obvious discourse. But the fact shall remain, to surpass Tanzania does not take you to next level.You're very lucky that I am actually putting up an intelligent argument with you. I stopped doing that with most Tanzanians here because most of them lack knowledge and argue like Primary School kids. I will take your arguments one by one.
1. Your argument about Norway and UK is misplaced. You see, the UK has a much bigger economy according to those statistics. But the same statistics do mention that the UK has a lower GDP per capita (due to higher population) than Norway, a lower HDI than Norway, a lower living standard than Norway, can't match the population welfare of Norway and scores worse than Norway on ALL HUMAN DEVELOPMENT STATISTICS according to the same WB and IMF statistics. Using the UK-Norway example on Kenya and Tanzania is false at best and ridiculous at worst. That argument would be valid if we were comparing Kenya to Mauritius, not Kenya to Tanzania. See, Kenya has a slightly smaller population yet a bigger economy, better welfare, higher salaries, higher HDI, better infrastructure, higher literacy, generally better schools and ranks better than Tanzania in MOST human development statistics.
2. Both Tanzania and Kenya are developing countries. They are both poor countries but arguing that that invalidates the fact that Kenya is ahead of Tanzania is absurd. You've seen your countrymen pop up from nowhere on every thread on this forum posting pictures of slums in Kenya to 'prove' Kenya is worse than Tanzania. You see, for a country to be ahead of another country, it doesn't have to solve all problems it has, it doesn't have to have everyone living an awesome life. If we argued that way we could also say China and Brazil and South Africa are neither ahead of Tz or out of the LDC simply because they hve millions of people living miserable lives. See? That doesn't make sense at all. Kenya just needs to be ahead of Tz for it to be ahead of Tz. Kenya has more millionaires, more middle class and less people living below the poverty line than Tanzania. It has a better electricity connection, a higher number of people with access to social ammenities and 'luxuries' such as Cars, TVs etc than Tz, it has better education facilities than Tz and better more organized cities and meets the criteria to be a non LDC country. That puts it ahead of Tz.
That's a very weak way to respond lol. No, you were never expecting this kind of response - I debunked all your stupid arguments. You can't make arguments expecting somebody to debunk them yet still make them unless you're plain stupid. Anyway I'm happy you now agree Kenya is ahead of Tanzania.I was expecting this obvious discourse. But the fact shall remain, to surpass Tanzania does not take you to next level.