Synod 2009 na mtizamo wake dhidi ya Afrika

[Tumain]

Nimekujibu Swali lako ulilouliza Wakatoliki wanasaidiaje A common man in the street,wala sikulenga kuonesha ni DINI(DHEHEBU????) gani lililo bora katika kutoa huduma za jamii

Kwa hiyo wote wengine wanaotoa huduma za jamii wakaombe uwakilishi AU? does it make sense? ...hawa mapapa ni wazugaji tu hakuna lolote? the bottom line ni kueneza church influence to political leaders in africa..that is the mission..

 

[Bluray]

Mkuu kwani wamesema wataona uanachama kama State?

Ukisoma hiyo charter utagundua hakuna uanachama usio state, ndiyo maana hawaongelei "member" bali wanaongelea "member state".

Zaidi ya hapo wame specify kwamba ili kuwa mwanachama inabidi hii state iwe african state, maana yake Greece, The UK, Saudi Arabia, The Holy See/ Vatican, Malta etc hazina hata qualification ya ku apply kwani ingawa ni states, si African States. Kuna sehemu nyingine katika hii charter inayoelezea uanachama wa non- African states au non-states?

Ona hiyo act hapa http://www.africa-union.org/About_AU/AbConstitutive_Act.htm

 

[Tumain]

Duh...ama kweli tuna kazi sana...yaani mkuu kweli huoni ambacho Katoliki wanamsaidia "common man"?

Usiangalie hoja hii kwa misingi ya kidini, utaielewa vizuri tu.

Tunatakiwa tuiangalie kwa misingi yote ...kwani wangapi wanasaidia common man..then nao waombe uwakilishi huko?? huo ndio UDINI wenyewe kutafuta namna ya ku-infulence politics (political leaders on the favour of church)..hakuna lolote that is the mission

 

[Balantanda]

The AU charter says this about membership



Sasa hao wa Vatican / Holy See wataomba membership kwa minajili gani wakati wao si African state?

-The Catholic Church could seek formal representation in the African Union to improve the church-s work in justice and peace on the continent.
Archbishop Berhaneyesus Demerew Souraphiel of Addis Ababa, the AU headquarters, made the suggestion at the second African Synod underway in Rome.
-It is my hope that the Holy See appoints a permanent representative to the AU who should attend all the meetings whenever they take place and who could keep in personal contact with the Catholic members of that important institution,- Archbishop Souraphiel said.
-This special representative preferably would have diplomatic credentials comparable to the one of an Apostolic Nuncio


-Archbishop Souraphiel said that a Catholic representative could be appointed to the AU to be fully committed and available for his mission in such a way that he may attend the meetings and meet the persons who have key influence in the decision making process.


Hii hapa chini nayo kali


-According to the prelate almost 50 percent of the members of AU are of the
Catholic Church and the Apostolic Nuncio in Ethiopia is invited to attend the general assemblies of the AU whenever they take place in Addis Ababa as an observer.

 

[Bluray]

-The Catholic Church could seek formal representation in the African Union to improve the church-s work in justice and peace on the continent.
Archbishop Berhaneyesus Demerew Souraphiel of Addis Ababa, the AU headquarters, made the suggestion at the second African Synod underway in Rome.
-It is my hope that the Holy See appoints a permanent representative to the AU who should attend all the meetings whenever they take place and who could keep in personal contact with the Catholic members of that important institution,- Archbishop Souraphiel said.
-This special representative preferably would have diplomatic credentials comparable to the one of an Apostolic Nuncio


-Archbishop Souraphiel said that a Catholic representative could be appointed to the AU to be fully committed and available for his mission in such a way that he may attend the meetings and meet the persons who have key influence in the decision making process.


Hii hapa chini nayo kali


-According to the prelate almost 50 percent of the members of AU are of the
Catholic Church and the Apostolic Nuncio in Ethiopia is invited to attend the general assemblies of the AU whenever they take place in Addis Ababa as an observer.

Ushaona wanaalikwa kama observers.

Ili kukubaliwa uanachama itabidi constitution ya AU ibadilishwe kuruhusu non-African states au non-state organizations ziruhusiwe uanachama.

Hawa wakatoliki wanataka nini kwenye hii organization? Hiyo power ya kanisa haiwatoshi? Mi nafikiri uanachama ubaki kwenye African states.Hawa wakatoliki wanaweza kufanya yote wanayotaka bila ku disturb structure ya AU.

Wakiruhusiwa next thing you know waislam nao watataka uanachama and from there you know where this will lead, a modern day crusade. Hatutaki that kind of zoo, the AU is challenging as it is, kwa nini tulete controversies zisizo sababu?

 

[Babuyao]

Kwani ni lipi alilosema uwongo? Kama amesema ukweli kwa nini azuiwe?

 

[Balantanda]

.



Wakiruhusiwa next thing you know waislam nao watataka uanachama and from there you know where this will lead, a modern day crusade. Hatutaki that kind of zoo, the AU is challenging as it is, kwa nini tulete controversies zisizo sababu?

Nina uhakika mpaka dakika hii(hasa wa Tanzania) baada ya kuipata taarifa hii watakuwa wameanza mikakati ya kujiandaa ili Wakatoliki wakiruhusiwa tu Uanachama nao waombe kujiunga...Ni lazima nao watataka uanachama wa AU

 

[S. S. Phares]

These guys are smart, really smart..

Be specific YEBOYEBO, which guys are smart!Talk something to be understood by the intended audience c`mon!

Mkuu,

Catholic wamepata matatizo kwa muda mrefu sana katika kutimiza malengo yao kwa sababu hawana sikio wala sauti ya uhakika kwenye siasa za nchi mbali mbali Africa. Sasa wanachokitaka ni kupata kiti mezani ambako watakuwa na sauti sio tu kutoka kwenye nchi moja moja bali kwa Africa nzima (nchi wanachama wa AU).

Wakifanikiwa watakuwana nafasi ya kuzishawishi nchi moja moja kukubaliana na malengo yao kwa urahisi zaidi.

 

[Balantanda]

Tunatakiwa tuiangalie kwa misingi yote ...kwani wangapi wanasaidia common man..then nao waombe uwakilishi huko??

Sidhani kama hao wngine wamezuiwa mkuu,wakitaka nao wanaweza tu(na nina uhakika watafanya hivyo tu)..Mfano ni hapa Tanzania Wakatoliki walitoa WARAKA kwa ajili ya Uchaguzi mkuu 2010 watu mkawaponda weee,lakini baada ya muda mfupi tu Waislamu nao wakaja na WARAKA wao...Kwa mtizamo wangu mimi ni VIGUMU sana kutenganisha DINI na SIASA...........Pa1

 

[Kieleweke]

Kwani ni lipi alilosema uwongo? Kama amesema ukweli kwa nini azuiwe?

Ndiyo maana na mimi nikauliza hata kama kuna wa kujaribu kumzuia ni nani mwenye ubavu huo hapa duniani kama kauli yake imekubaliwa na bosi wake ambaye ni Papa?
Mfuateni sasa mkaongee na Papa kwamba anaruhusu maaskofu wake kutoa nyaraka. Kwamba tukiwakataza kutoa hapa nyumbani sasa ndiyo wanatoa nyaraka kali zaidi tena wakiwa Roma na zikienea dunia nzima kama huu wa Askofu Mtega na zote zitakazotolew ahdi Synod itakapoisha.

Wanaofahamu anuani ya Kingunge wampe asome nyaraka zote zinazotolewa kama toipic huko Vatican.

 

[S. S. Phares]

Ukisoma hiyo charter utagundua hakuna uanachama usio state, ndiyo maana hawaongelei "member" bali wanaongelea "member state".

Zaidi ya hapo wame specify kwamba ili kuwa mwanachama inabidi hii state iwe african state, maana yake Greece, The UK, Saudi Arabia, The Holy See/ Vatican, Malta etc hazina hata qualification ya ku apply kwani ingawa ni states, si African States. Kuna sehemu nyingine katika hii charter inayoelezea uanachama wa non- African states au non-states?

Ona hiyo act hapa http://www.africa-union.org/About_AU/AbConstitutive_Act.htm

Blueray

Ndio sababu comment ya kwanza kabisa kwenye hii mada nilisema hawa Catholic wako very smart. Wao wameshasema malengo yao kwenye hicho kikao huko Vatican...sasa wacha wanasiasa wafanye kazi iliyobaki. Iwapo ni kurekebisha katiba ya AU au vyovyote vile. Wanachotaka wao ni kiti chenye kauli na masikio kwenye AU, watawezaje kufika huko ni mapema mno kujadili ila ninavyowajua Catholic iwapo wamedhamiria; watafanikiwa. Time will tell....

 

[Kibogoyo]

Kama kuna shida waislamu na nyinyi ombeni kiti. Shida iko wapi?

Halafu wengi mnabisha bila ya kuelewa mambo. Hata kama Vatikani itaomba kiti, nadhani itaomba kiti kama observer au msikilizaji, just kama umoja wa nchi za ulaya ulivyo katika AU. Sasa shida iko wapii? Hivyo kaeni mkijua kuwa Vatican haitakuwa ya kwanza kuomba kiti katika AU. Nchi nyingine zipo kama observers.

Mkitaka ufafanuzi zaidi, nitawapa shule katika hili.

 

[S. S. Phares]

Tunatakiwa tuiangalie kwa misingi yote ...kwani wangapi wanasaidia common man..then nao waombe uwakilishi huko?? huo ndio UDINI wenyewe kutafuta namna ya ku-infulence politics (political leaders on the favour of church)..hakuna lolote that is the mission

Mbona unakuwa na haraka mkuu, kwani hao wengine wamekuambia wanataka kiti kwenye vikao vya AU? Au sasa ndio umeamua kuwa msemaji wa jumuiya yoyote inayotoa msaada kwa common man?

 

[Bluray]

Kama kuna shida waislamu na nyinyi ombeni kiti. Shida iko wapi?

Halafu wengi mnabisha bila ya kuelewa mambo. Hata kama Vatikani itaomba kiti, nadhani itaomba kiti kama observer au msikilizaji, just kama umoja wa nchi za ulaya ulivyo katika AU. Sasa shida iko wapii? Hivyo kaeni mkijua kuwa Vatican haitakuwa ya kwanza kuomba kiti katika AU. Nchi nyingine zipo kama observers.

Mkitaka ufafanuzi zaidi, nitawapa shule katika hili.

First of all, huhitaji uanachama ili kuwa observer.Ukifutilia elimu inayotolewa na thread hii kutoka kwa watu mbalimbali utagundua hawa watu tayari wanahudhuria kama observers bila ya kuwa wanachama.Wanachotaka sasa ni kuwa wanachama kamili ili watoke katika status ya observers na kuweza ku influence policy.

Kuruhusu non-african states au non state organisations kutafungua a can of worms ambayo italeta matatizo mengi kuliko itakayofungua.

Hivi EU kuna non-European state member? hata baadhi ya European states hazijapata uanachama.Kama tunataka chombo serious tuiache katiba kama ilivyo, with membership to African states only.

Otherwise kama tunataka zoo turuhusu haya mabadiliko, hata mimi na familia yangu tuta apply membership tuwe na sauti, si kutakuwa na precedent bwana?

 

[Tumain]

Kama kuna shida waislamu na nyinyi ombeni kiti. Shida iko wapi?

Halafu wengi mnabisha bila ya kuelewa mambo. Hata kama Vatikani itaomba kiti, nadhani itaomba kiti kama observer au msikilizaji, just kama umoja wa nchi za ulaya ulivyo katika AU. Sasa shida iko wapii? Hivyo kaeni mkijua kuwa Vatican haitakuwa ya kwanza kuomba kiti katika AU. Nchi nyingine zipo kama observers.

Mkitaka ufafanuzi zaidi, nitawapa shule katika hili.

Waislamu watafanya immediately wakatoliki wakishafanya..lakini haya mambo ya UDINI kwenye siasa (political influence) wanaanzaga hao wakatoliki..let wait and see...in every action there is equal and opposite reaction...

 

[Solomon David]

Hii topic inahusiana vipi na siasa (jukwaa la siasa za tanzania)?

 

[Solomon David]

Waislamu watafanya immediately wakatoliki wakishafanya..lakini haya mambo ya UDINI kwenye siasa (political influence) wanaanzaga hao wakatoliki..let wait and see...in every action there is equal and opposite reaction...

Mbona vitisho mkuu? utafanya nini?

 

[S. S. Phares]

Kama kuna shida waislamu na nyinyi ombeni kiti. Shida iko wapi?

Halafu wengi mnabisha bila ya kuelewa mambo. Hata kama Vatikani itaomba kiti, nadhani itaomba kiti kama observer au msikilizaji, just kama umoja wa nchi za ulaya ulivyo katika AU. Sasa shida iko wapii? Hivyo kaeni mkijua kuwa Vatican haitakuwa ya kwanza kuomba kiti katika AU. Nchi nyingine zipo kama observers.

Mkitaka ufafanuzi zaidi, nitawapa shule katika hili.

1. Vatican tayari wa kiti kama Observer.

2. Waislamu hawawezi kuomba kiti kama Waislamu; kama ilivyo Catholic hawawezi kuomba kama Catholic.!!

3. Ukosefu wa elimu ndio unaolete hizi hoja za kama Catholic wamefanya basi na sisi tufanye; kama ilivyo kwenye Waraka Tanzania.

Unaweza kutuelimisha zaidi.

 

[Balantanda]

First of all, huhitaji uanachama ili kuwa observer.Ukifutilia elimu inayotolewa na thread hii kutoka kwa watu mbalimbali utagundua hawa watu tayari wanahudhuria kama observers bila ya kuwa wanachama.Wanachotaka sasa ni kuwa wanachama kamili ili watoke katika status ya observers na kuweza ku influence policy.

Kuruhusu non-african states au non state organisations kutafungua a can of worms ambayo italeta matatizo mengi kuliko itakayofungua.

Hivi EU kuna non-European state member? hata baadhi ya European states hazijapata uanachama.Kama tunataka chombo serious tuiache katiba kama ilivyo, with membership to African states only.

Otherwise kama tunataka zoo turuhusu haya mabadiliko, hata mimi na familia yangu tuta apply membership tuwe na sauti, si kutakuwa na precedent bwana?

Hii hapa chini inaeleza kila kitu mkuu


-It is my hope that the Holy See appoints a permanent representative to the AU who should attend all the meetings whenever they take place and who could keep in personal contact with the Catholic members of that important institution,- Archbishop Souraphiel said.
-This special representative preferably would have diplomatic credentials comparable to the one of an Apostolic Nuncio,- he explained. .

 

[Kisanduku]

Kama kuna shida waislamu na nyinyi ombeni kiti. Shida iko wapi?

Halafu wengi mnabisha bila ya kuelewa mambo. Hata kama Vatikani itaomba kiti, nadhani itaomba kiti kama observer au msikilizaji, just kama umoja wa nchi za ulaya ulivyo katika AU. Sasa shida iko wapii? Hivyo kaeni mkijua kuwa Vatican haitakuwa ya kwanza kuomba kiti katika AU. Nchi nyingine zipo kama observers.

Mkitaka ufafanuzi zaidi, nitawapa shule katika hili.

Wao wenyewe wamesema wanaomba kama Observer. Kumbuka hata kule UN wao (Holy See) bado ni Observer japo hii ni kwa sababu wao wenyewe hawajaamua wawe permanent member state. Hivi sasa ndiyo wanatamka mara moja moja je wa-upgrade membership yao waachane na hiyo observer.

Na kuwa obsever maana yake huruhusiwi tu ku-vote kama voting itafika lakini presentation na idea zako zitasikilizwa kama kawaida. Je ni mara ngapi kura inapigwa AU au UN?