Edzeame
Senior Member
- Aug 8, 2012
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Tatizo kuu ya mtanzania ni mkikuyu
Tanzania lone ranger in EAC integration bid
Tanzania lone ranger in EAC integration bid
- Thread starter Geza Ulole
- Start date
Tatizo kuu ya mtanzania ni mkikuyu
Dhuks
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 15, 2012
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what does kikuyus have to do with Tanzania?
Edzeame
Senior Member
- Aug 8, 2012
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No Mkuu, I am on your side...I could not see the logic behind shugri post, as you know most of watz are still embed in civilization za akina babu zetu, so when they presented with the issue of integration, their thoughts quickly jump on mass exodus of kikuyu into TZ coming to till their soil....The government there needs to invest heavily in civil education to its citizens on EAC integration.
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History has it that Tanzania wanted the so called East African Federation even before independence. Tanzanians also remember very well how the former East African Community broke up and the way Tanzania was mistreated. Tanzania are also aware that even today, many years after the post-election violence in Kenya most of the displaced people have not been resettled because of land problems.
Tanzanians know what they are talking about. You are talking about civil education, should this take place in Tanzania or Kenya?
Edzeame
Senior Member
- Aug 8, 2012
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When it comes to EAC issues, Tanzanias approach or attitude is simmilar to a person that wants others to clean their behinds for them after offloading excreament. I suggest you put the whole load of the blame on post independent leadership. it was not focused about the future of TZ and got distracted nurturing the wasteful from mainland upto island.
If it would adopt integration, Tz would be miles ahead of Kenya. By not considering economic policies to cater for growing populations, Tz were destined to move at snaiils pace economically despite mineral resources. Its tricky, for TZ to move forward, they need to free certain perceptions from their mind and embrace mordernity. Land problems are being solved systematicly and they will be solved. Civic education on intergration, you need to do it yourselves, or if you are unable we can do it for you here.
You do not have to be vulgar in driving your points. You can still be good without that. Besides, can you give an example when Tanzania asked anyone to come and clean anything?
It was the breakup of the former EAC which in many ways retarded Tanzania's progress. Tanzanians will never forget what Kenya did to them especially in the areas of Telecommunications, railways and air travel. Given the persistent pressure from Kenya that Tanzania should embrace integration again, Tanzanians keep on asking themselves about the possibly hidden motives behind it. Once bitten twice shy.
Let me assure that Tanzania has got its priorities right and it is going to do well. We do not need to do better than Kenya. I am sure Kenya will keep on developing and so will Tanzania. After all, the difference between Kenya and Tanzania is very marginal. I hope you know that.
I am not sure if Kenyans who are so polarised along tribal lines have got anything to teach Tanzanians in the area of civic education. I have been to Kenya several times and I know what I am saying. Among the many countries I have gone to in Africa it is only in Kenya where I found tribal animosity is so intense that even pubs are divided along tribal lines. Shame on you!
Dhuks
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 15, 2012
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Politicians will never seek political mileage out of nothing. They know that IDPs is a problem that is why they capitalise on it just like if corruption is a problem they will capitalise on it as well.
The issue of land is dear to Tanzanians who keep on wondering why land should be an issue in integration. Land ownership and management system in Tanzania is different from that of Kenya. As a Tanzanian I am assured of getting a piece of land anywhere I want to settle in Tanzania. This is not the case in Kenya because otherwise those IDPs would not be in existence. That is, you have got a big land problem.
Edzeame
Senior Member
- Aug 8, 2012
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Ok I guess what was missing from my last post was lol..... watani wetu wa jadi ....Let us fact check before falsely directing any conclusive accusations.
I believe before EAC, there were negotiations. And what happened in the telecoms or aviation industry? Negotiations are often driven by interests. What was Tz aiming to achieve after integration? Same would be asked, what was Kenya aiming to achieve? How long did the EAC integration exist before it broke?
It reminds me a scenario where a man wants to marry a beautiful wife from a well to do family, he has all the credentials that fits a man, but lacks the associated bride price.
.....It is too bad that Kenya is solely responsible for the EAC breakup. My advice would be for you to get your act together and stop crying over spilt milk. I figure out if Tz had the will to develop their aviation industry, telecommunications,...transportation or infrastructure, they would have continued on that path minus Kenya. But immediately it broke, Tz reverted back to life as normal and have been that way ever since. They have continued the legacy of weaving ANTI-EAC mechanisms. So strong was their desire that they had to seek assuarances from SADC regardless whether their immediate agendas varied. It is this scenario that made Tz orphans within EAC framework and mixed up than ever before with one leg half-heartedly in EAC and one in SADC. SADC have noted such instability indecisiveness and have sidelined TZ's diplomatic core in many departments especially when the Malawi border row was taking place, it was left to explore its own diplomatic course with Malawi . Tz involvement in Ssudan and DRC is left hanging in the balance.
Land issue in Kenya is not new and neither was the 08PEV the Hallmark of land problems. There have been ethnic clashes months before election since 1992. That thrived because the old colonial constition had no provisions of how to deal with land allocations. But the new constitution covers that into detail. Ethnic intolerance is usually ignited by politicians months before elections are held. Methods r being explored and efforts are currently under underway to find out how to suitably tame politicians that deploy such variables.
Surely Kenya will never teach Tz anything about tolerance, but there's much it can learn within EAC.
Surely, with money you can get a piece of land anywhere in the world even in places like New York or Hongkong! What about those who do not money, like the IDPs and many others?
Tanzania is not crying over spilt milk but it does not like to make the same mistake twice. Tanzania moved on after the breakup of the EAC and did not lie back as you tend to suggest.
I am not sure how much you know about SADC. You should know that Tanzania was part and parcel of the formation of SADC more than 32 years ago. Only three countries formed SADCC which is the predecessor of the current SADC - Tanzania, Botswana and Zambia. You may like to know also that Tanzania is currently the Chairman of the powerful [FONT=Arial, Liberation Sans, sans-serif]SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Cooperation. There are those who pray for Tanzania being forced out of SADC in some way. It is a wishful thinking. Tanzania will pull out of SADC out of its own accord and not otherwise.
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Within SADC, Tanzania has not and will never be isolated diplomatically or otherwise. The border dispute between Tanzania and Malawi has been there for many years. It is not a new issue and it is not something which has never cropped up among SADC member countries. SADC for example did not participate in any way when a border-dispute came up between Botswana and Namibia.
Is Tanzania an orphan within EAC? I don't think so. I take it that an orphan is one who is dismembered from another person or society against his or her will. This does not apply to Tanzania.
As for South Sudan and DRC those are issues that other countries can handle. Tanzanians want to take a rest after many years of liberating the southern part of continent. Rest assured that Tanzania is not disgruntled in any way.
No no no, it is clear that most Tanzanians hate on Kenyans and Kenya as a whole as depicted by your continous trash talk and ill feeling on every thing kenya does while we dont care of what you do in your county.
Why would I lie to you? I have visited Kenya several times. On my first day in Nairobi I was shocked when my host declined to accompany to a nearby pub I had already started frequenting because it was patronised by the Jaluos. It could have been a one-off incidence but it happened.
Believe me, that I have seen many incidences of Kenyans looking down upon each other along tribal lines, within Kenya and outside Kenya.
Anyway, maybe I shouldn't be the person to tell you about the problems of tribalism in Kenya. Maybe they do not exist as you say.