Tanzanians, come here lets reason together

MK254 said:

There you are, exactly the difference, you are a party fanatic, a die hard while am a patriot. I normally have a difficult time when reasoning with fanatics even in Kenya, there are instances I have had to fallout even with Jubilee fanatics in Kenya, in short, stalwarts share similar characteristics around the whole world. They are usually blind, won't listen to reason and will twist anything and everything to suit whatever position taken by their parties.
For people like you, everything in a country is divided into two, those for and those against, nothing else will make sense, no voice of reason, you just get party briefings and take off to use all your energy to support it, and if tomorrow the party flip-flop its position, you simply change and adjust accordingly.

The worst are those paid to troll social media and stay all night long defending party positions.

As for me, am a patriot, I only support development agenda that will make a difference for my fellow Kenyans, whether done by government or opposition. I post all the good stuffs done by leaders across board, even in opposition stronghold, because we are one Kenya and the country belongs to all of us. There are massive stuffs happening in Kisumu, the governor there is doing wonders and that lake county will be a force to be reckoned with. I'd love to see someone like you posting something good done by Lema in Arusha, but doing such a thing will obviously obliterate your career.

I've criticized Uhuru on several occasions, he has not been passionate enough in his war against corruption, has not done much in creating a cohesive nation...may be recent efforts will pay off.
So there, I've openly had issues with Uhuru and during elections, I had to settle for him since there was no better alternative (for me), his competitors have not been any better historically and am not sure deep down if we Kenyans are ready to fight corruption, can not be a one man fight.

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Haha, patriotic huh?? Something is missing here, I'm curious to know how many limbs have you lost of defending your country? Let's put this way, what have you sacrifice for your country?

I haven't met anyone who is fanatic and doesn't belong to a country, as much as your trying to stick a label on me, but I belong to a country and as you've guess it, is known as UNITED REPUBLIC OF TANZANIA.

One thing you should know, political ideology doesn't force anyone to take membership of a particular political party, It makes you think in a certain way. It makes you believe in particular way of solving society problems. I do believe everyone deserve a fair share of what their country can offer, no matter what background your came from you don't deserve to be left out on national cake. If there is a political party proscribing on that ideology, then I'm in.

But I've to remind myself that I'm talking to a person who comes from a country which has abandon political ideology, in favor of political business.

Mwanzi1 said:

Haha, patriotic huh?? Something is missing here, I'm curious to know how many limbs have you lost of defending your country? Let's put this way, what have you sacrifice for your country?

I haven't met anyone who is fanatic and doesn't belong to a country, as much as your trying to stick a label on me, but I belong to a country and as you've guess it, is known as UNITED REPUBLIC OF TANZANIA.

One thing you should know, political ideology doesn't force anyone to take membership of a particular political party, It makes you think in a certain way. It makes you believe in particular way of solving society problems. I do believe everyone deserve a fair share of what their country can offer, no matter what background your came from you don't deserve to be left out on national cake. If there is a political party proscribing on that ideology, then I'm in.

But I've to remind myself that I'm talking to a person who comes from a country which has abandon political ideology, in favor of political business.

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There is a difference between a party member/follower and a fanatic, it's not a bad thing belonging to a party, following its ideologies and whatnot, but it's detrimental for one to become a fanatic, you get swallowed up, blinded and can't listen or see anything outside what the party says or does.
Tanzania has been lagging behind for all these years because of such CCM fanatics who can't question or reason, they troll social media frustrating everyone who tries to voice/raise a concern.

MK254 said:

There is a difference between a party member/follower and a fanatic, it's not a bad thing belonging to a party, following its ideologies and whatnot, but it's detrimental for one to become a fanatic, you get swallowed up, blinded and can't listen or see anything outside what the party says or does.
Tanzania has been lagging behind for all these years because of such CCM fanatics who can't question or reason, they troll social media frustrating everyone who tries to voice/raise a concern.

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What is becoming harder and harder is to link me with fanaticism, there is no proof of me flying a flying a flag or hold placard supporting a particular party.

But but besides all that, am I not a free human being who has a right to make own choices? If you call me fanatic, will that change anything or any of my beliefs? The answer is no. Same as you, can anyone change your view about l Uhuru?? I'm guessing no. So you can sing all you want, but you've to remember, we're not subscribing on same political views.

When you say CCM has hold the country back. Left turn the tables. What has Kenya archive from KANU to PNU to Jubilee. Land is still in question, food security is challenge, human security in term if diseases, opportunity are still in people's dreams. It goes all the way tribalism, constitution which failed to answer basic questions which it was created for. Corruption, equality, equal level off jobs etc.

[emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1] ufipa hawajaafika bado

Mwanzi1 said:

What is becoming harder and harder is to link me with fanaticism, there is no proof of me flying a flying a flag or hold placard supporting a particular party.

But but besides all that, am I not a free human being who has a right to make own choices? If you call me fanatic, will that change anything or any of my beliefs? The answer is no. Same as you, can anyone change your view about l Uhuru?? I'm guessing no. So you can sing all you want, but you've to remember, we're not subscribing on same political views.

When you say CCM has hold the country back. Left turn the tables. What has Kenya archive from KANU to PNU to Jubilee. Land is still in question, food security is challenge, human security in term if diseases, opportunity are still in people's dreams. It goes all the way tribalism, constitution which failed to answer basic questions which it was created for. Corruption, equality, equal level off jobs etc.

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You still don't get it, carrying placards in support of a party does not make you a fanatic, that's basically a party supporter and is not necessarily a bad thing, everyone has a right to be a follower of some ideology, but a fanatic is a single-minded person who doesn't engage brain to think of alternative beliefs.
By the way, you can change my view on Uhuru, am not a fanatic of his, am not even a follower, am just a supporter of his development plan and ideas, and like I said, am a patriot and would support any leader who has the interest of the nation at heart.
As for difference between days we were under the spell of KANU and now, we have discussed this in so many threads and posts, there is no point of me listing them here all over again since you and your ilk have always been single-minded and will never see the light, not in the near future.
Kenya used to be where Tanzania is today, everything happening in Tz under CCM reminds me of those dark days.

Mwanzi1 said:

What is becoming harder and harder is to link me with fanaticism, there is no proof of me flying a flying a flag or hold placard supporting a particular party.

But but besides all that, am I not a free human being who has a right to make own choices? If you call me fanatic, will that change anything or any of my beliefs? The answer is no. Same as you, can anyone change your view about l Uhuru?? I'm guessing no. So you can sing all you want, but you've to remember, we're not subscribing on same political views.

When you say CCM has hold the country back. Left turn the tables. What has Kenya archive from KANU to PNU to Jubilee. Land is still in question, food security is challenge, human security in term if diseases, opportunity are still in people's dreams. It goes all the way tribalism, constitution which failed to answer basic questions which it was created for. Corruption, equality, equal level off jobs etc.

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Dont waste your time on who thinks that a country's development policy is because of a single person -his demigod. The is NO country in the developed world that does not have party ideology, and no developed country can politicaly survive without well developed party ideologies..
The are no apologies or shame for any one to be a CCM member..Its a proclamation that one is politicaly mature and believes that society problems are best addressed by center left politics & policies..and cannot be swayed by a "Big Man" who has many sweet words about how he wants to be president yet he is a corrupt thief with no affliation to center left politics but only to money and family not even his tribe.
Political and Economic Maturity is rooted in strong party ideology not Tyrants and demigods like hitler and Uhuru who are not accountable to any left/ right political and economic theology.
Those who follow such depots are just scundrels and closet racists not patriots..Lets remember hitler who had no left/ right ideology was a genious in industrial and infrastructure development..But where is NAZI germany today?

MK254 said:

You still don't get it, carrying placards in support of a party does not make you a fanatic, that's basically a party supporter and is not necessarily a bad thing, everyone has a right to be a follower of some ideology, but a fanatic is a single-minded person who doesn't engage brain to think of alternative beliefs.
By the way, you can change my view on Uhuru, am not a fanatic of his, am not even a follower, am just a supporter of his development plan and ideas, and like I said, am a patriot and would support any leader who has the interest of the nation at heart.
As for difference between days we were under the spell of KANU and now, we have discussed this in so many threads and posts, there is no point of me listing them here all over again since you and your ilk have always been single-minded and will never see the light, not in the near future.
Kenya used to be where Tanzania is today, everything happening in Tz under CCM reminds me of those dark days.

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If no one can change my mind that means they've fail to convince me to look the other way. I have my principles and they can not be broken, you've done your homework and have all the answers.

But if someone is not grounded, can easily be sway with few promises, Hypocrite is the word comes to my mind. Not everyone can brainstorm for themselves and hold a concrete position on their views. In the modern world cleaver people crafted a very well plan to sway in people who can easily be swey with gossips and powerpoint. The use of fake news and false promises, illusion are on the rise, thanks to organization like Cambridge Analytica. Quick thought on last Kenyan general election, Cambridge analytical was at forefront of Uhuru’s campaign, and many false policies were crafted to sway people in Uhuru’s favor and you my friend, your one of them. True or false?

I find it hard to understand when someone will try to compare Kenya and Tanzania politically, to be frank is kind laughable. Tanzania hasn't experience ethnic violence and segregation on the scale of Kenya. We haven't experience political related mass murder like we've witness in Kenya, we haven't even experience the rate of vote for cash like we have witness in Kenya. How can you compare family enterprise plus tribal with political institution and inclusivity like what we see in Tanzania.

I gave you a short list on how one political party which have rule Kenya has no different to the other, because each and one of them (from KANU to Jubilee) they've campaigned on change but in true sense things are still the same, from corruption to equality. Strangely enough, the people who run those parties have something in common, they all descended from KANU. I always wonder of country gov where created to tackle local problem and run by themselves, how can them achieve that goal if they can generate enough income to make that idea realty? They've been collecting taxes below target, so was there a need to change constitution and elect greedy politicians who can't deliver on their political promises?

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Dont waste your time on who thinks that a country's development policy is because of a single person -his demigod. The is NO country in the developed world that does not have party ideology, and no developed country can politicaly survive without well developed party ideologies..
The are no apologies or shame for any one to be a CCM member..Its a proclamation that one is politicaly mature and believes that society problems are best addressed by center left politics & policies..and cannot be swayed by a "Big Man" who has many sweet words about how he wants to be president yet he is a corrupt thief with no affliation to center left politics but only to money and family not even his tribe.
Political and Economic Maturity is rooted in strong party ideology not Tyrants and demigods like hitler and Uhuru who are not accountable to any left/ right political and economic theology.
Those who follow such depots are just scundrels and closet racists not patriots..Lets remember hitler who had no left/ right ideology was a genious in industrial and infrastructure development..But where is NAZI germany today?

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Ideology give you a baseline which can be used to hold someone farm to the ground. One thing about party with ideology, it members and followers can not be manipulate with short term greedy ideas. Most of them they hold on the principles which have put them together in first place. Same as Christians with bible or Muslims with Quran.

Mwanzi1 said:

Ideology give you a baseline which can be used to hold someone farm to the ground. One thing about party with ideology, it members and followers can not be manipulate with short term greedy ideas. Most of them they hold on the principles which have put them together in first place. Same as Christians with bible or Muslims with Quran.

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When I see people claim that they like uhuru just because he is uhuru or because of so called "development" not because his political or economic polices are either center left/ right or far left/right, I see idiots who worship bigots and are politicaly immature.
People in Tz do not like JPM because of development or etc, but because JPM impliments Center left economic policies of CCM.
That is why kenyans chooze leaders based on their tribe/ money or other stupid things that eventually fail.
These fairly educated idiots are the biggest problem in kenya. The only way to hold politicians accountable to the needs/ beliefs of the voters is to examine if the politician impliments the economic and political ideology of the voters.
Sweet words,lies, campaign money, bribery are the works of a tyrant and despot

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

When I see people claim that they like uhuru just because he is uhuru or because of so called "development" not because his political or economic polices are either center left/ right or far left/right, I see idiots who worship bigots and are politicaly immature.
People in Tz do not like JPM because of development or etc, but because JPM impliments Center left economic policies of CCM.
That is why kenyans chooze leaders based on their tribe/ money or other stupid things that eventually fail.
These fairly educated idiots are the biggest problem in kenya. The only way to hold politicians accountable to the needs/ beliefs of the voters is to examine if the politician impliments the economic and political ideology of the voters.
Sweet words,lies, campaign money, bribery are the works of a tyrant and despot

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Haha well well well. But to be honest one day someone will speak the truth and no one will like it. Enough is enough, conservatives have been left to run the country for far too long. Even in developed world, they get the best of both sides. There is time a country needs a conservative leadership, and are times it needs socialist leadership. But living it everything on one side you end up with unanswered questions. Look the way US President's uses executive orders, if there is consecutive president in power, he answer conservative problems, if his liberal, he'll work towards liberal ideas.

Country like South Africa they had conservative gov for 100years, they end up with two unbridged Societies, not the black and white, but the rich and poor. country like Kenya can easily sleepwalk into this trap very easily if there is no balance of power.
CCM have been cleaver to bring in leaders who totally different, each one of them hold different political views. Some are center left and some center right. If Lowassa was true 100% socialist he won't be able switch to Chadema that easy knowingly Chadema being a party with conservative values and ideas. Same thing happen to Ethiopia, they've brought in liberal lead to sort out conservative problems.

Mwanzi1 said:

Haha well well well. But to be honest one day someone will speak the truth and no one will like it. Enough is enough, conservatives have been left to run the country for far too long. Even in developed world, they get the best of both sides. There is time a country needs a conservative leadership, and are times it needs socialist leadership. But living it everything on one side you end up with unanswered questions. Look the way US President's uses executive orders, if there is consecutive president in power, he answer conservative problems, if his liberal, he'll work towards liberal ideas.

Country like South Africa they had conservative gov for 100years, they end up with two unbridged Societies, not the black and white, but the rich and poor. country like Kenya can easily sleepwalk into this trap very easily if there is no balance of power.
CCM have been cleaver to bring in leaders who totally different, each one of them hold different political views. Some are center left and some center right. If Lowassa was true 100% socialist he won't be able switch to Chadema that easy knowingly Chadema being a party with conservative values and ideas.

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Lowassa is an example of greedy politician with no ideology either left or right..He is motivated by money and power not genuine CCM center left economic and political management. Even those who are currently joining CCM are not serious unless they have econcounterd a point of political "salvation"
Both left and right economic models are succeful all over the world..but the effects of both on the citizens are different..Right wing politics produce successful but unequal societies like USA while Left wing politics produce succeful equal socoeties like germany, norway, sweden etc

Mkikuyu- Akili timamu said:

Lowassa is an example of greedy politician with no ideology either left or right..He is motivated by money and power not genuine CCM center left economic and political management. Even those who are currently joining CCM are not serious unless they have econcounterd a point of political "salvation"
Both left and right economic models are succeful all over the world..but the effects of both on the citizens are different..Right wing politics produce successful but unequal societies like USA while Left wing politics produce succeful equal socoeties like germany, norway, sweden etc

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Only 1% of people who are swinging from one political party to the other, do that for political reasons. The rest is due to financial and securing their future jobs.

If you manage to read books which are explaining Scandinavian life style, you'll realise why those countries are successful with their small population and small footprint in the world.

vulcan said:

Kikwete was a better leader by far. Afrcan nations don't need "One man shows", we need to build institutions and empower the people, to think freely and openly.Those are nations that will be leaders of others. Liberal nations.Anything else is not sustainable.

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You know nothing about Kikwete leadership, ati a better leader. Better how, kuwaachia muingize ng'ombe zenu na mjazane huku pasipo documents, muingize kuku na maziwa etc bure bure tu. Ndio maana mnasema a better leader. Angalia kura atakazopata magu, compare na alizopata kikwete.

Oii said:

You know nothing about Kikwete leadership, ati a better leader. Better how, kuwaachia muingize ng'ombe zenu na mjazane huku pasipo documents, muingize kuku na maziwa etc bure bure tu. Ndio maana mnasema a better leader. Angalia kura atakazopata magu, compare na alizopata kikwete.

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Your TZ relatives are trading in clothes and 2nd hand goods at Gikomba, your Beggars have filled Nairobi CBD. Very few Kenyans desire to go to TZ as you put it. We are either sent as experts or we come to buy stuff to sell over here. Magufuli as i said is just mark timing around, 2 steps forward 3 steps backward.

You can't settle for free in Tanzania, even for East African nationals. Maybe this is putting of some Kenyans off, but for what I know there many Kenya's here, they even pick up local accents you can't even tell they are Kenyans.

Mwanzi1 said:

If no one can change my mind that means they've fail to convince me to look the other way. I have my principles and they can not be broken, you've done your homework and have all the answers.

But if someone is not grounded, can easily be sway with few promises, Hypocrite is the word comes to my mind. Not everyone can brainstorm for themselves and hold a concrete position on their views. In the modern world cleaver people crafted a very well plan to sway in people who can easily be swey with gossips and powerpoint. The use of fake news and false promises, illusion are on the rise, thanks to organization like Cambridge Analytica. Quick thought on last Kenyan general election, Cambridge analytical was at forefront of Uhuru’s campaign, and many false policies were crafted to sway people in Uhuru’s favor and you my friend, your one of them. True or false?

I find it hard to understand when someone will try to compare Kenya and Tanzania politically, to be frank is kind laughable. Tanzania hasn't experience ethnic violence and segregation on the scale of Kenya. We haven't experience political related mass murder like we've witness in Kenya, we haven't even experience the rate of vote for cash like we have witness in Kenya. How can you compare family enterprise plus tribal with political institution and inclusivity like what we see in Tanzania.

I gave you a short list on how one political party which have rule Kenya has no different to the other, because each and one of them (from KANU to Jubilee) they've campaigned on change but in true sense things are still the same, from corruption to equality. Strangely enough, the people who run those parties have something in common, they all descended from KANU. I always wonder of country gov where created to tackle local problem and run by themselves, how can them achieve that goal if they can generate enough income to make that idea realty? They've been collecting taxes below target, so was there a need to change constitution and elect greedy politicians who can't deliver on their political promises?

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I have skimmed through all this but failed to comprehend what you are blabbering about, yeah it's only a fanatic who can't change their minds, has nothing to do with deep rooted principles. You must understand political parties and ideologies are meant for human and not the other way round, if for some reason someone managed to intellectually and empirically convince me against my political stance, I will definitely switch over, and that's why we have campaigns during elections, where competitors sell their policies, they present their development records and agenda so electorate can make informed decisions, only fanatics are fixated and can't see reason or listen.

As for political maturity between Kenya and Tanzania, yes we are incomparable, Tanzania has not suffered most of the ills that Kenya has faced simply because most of Tanzanians are moribund and mediocre (wapo wapo tu), can be controlled easily, they were locked up in ujamaa mentality such that anything said or done by the state can not be questioned or analysed (that explains why Tanzania is so poor despite having far much more resources than all countries in Africa). Conversely, Kenyans are a very inquisitive lot, to lead them like a herd of sheep is very difficult, they are used to being independent and that's why we are the only country not listed in LDC the whole of this region and beyond, in spite of the fact that our country is small with so little minerals.

MK254 said:

I have skimmed through all this but failed to comprehend what you are blabbering about, yeah it's only a fanatic who can't change their minds, has nothing to do with deep rooted principles. You must understand political parties and ideologies are meant for human and not the other way round, if for some reason someone managed to intellectually and empirically convince me against my political stance, I will definitely switch over, and that's why we have campaigns during elections, where competitors sell their policies, they present their development records and agenda so electorate can make informed decisions, only fanatics are fixated and can't see reason or listen.

As for political maturity between Kenya and Tanzania, yes we are incomparable, Tanzania has not suffered most of the ills that Kenya has faced simply because most of Tanzanians are moribund and mediocre (wapo wapo tu), can be controlled easily, they were locked up in ujamaa mentality such that anything said or done by the state can not be questioned or analysed (that explains why Tanzania is so poor despite having far much more resources than all countries in Africa). Conversely, Kenyans are a very inquisitive lot, to lead them like a herd of sheep is very difficult, they are used to being independent and that's why we are the only country not listed in LDC the whole of this region and beyond, in spite of the fact that our country is small with so little minerals.

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ha ha these people are in a state of constant denial. You remember the time Jamiiforums was shut down for the license issue? the admins at JamiiForums.com setup a section for jamiiforums, can you imagine the owners of this site had to release a public statement that they are not related in anyway to JamiiForums.com.. all this for the fear of their govt. And a nigger can come and type about media freedom and democracy. These guys have been so brainwashed by CCM propaganda, almost like North Korea.

Misri

Se-ronga said:

Mbona nyie Kenya mmebarikiwa ardhi nzuri na rwsources zingine kuliko Misri nchi ya jangwa lakini bado amewapita kiuchumi?

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Misri ilianza safari miaka zaidi ya elfu tano., imewai kuwa super power duniani wakati wa pharao., hapo uwezi linganisha., mwafrika alikua bush man.

Haya basi, toka hapa rudi kwenye tz news section ya jamii forums., mnakesha hapa kenyan news sana., mbona????

kapalamsenga said:

Tunaangalia katika TV zenu za Kenya, kuna maeneo hayana, umeme, maji, barabara nk hafu unakuja kujadili TZ hapa. Hivi huwa mnawashwashwa kila mara mnataka mambo ya Tz, fanyeni yenu

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Mnajua? You kenyans really amuse us. Mnakimbia kwenu kutafuta kazi kwetu na even can never produce enough to feed yourselves... You buy from us, you smell kitu kidogo hadi kitu yoote everyplace, mnajibagua mpaka mnatia huruma halafu mnataka tuongee...HEBU FANYENI KAZI MUIJENGE NCHI YENU.... Hamtakiwi kuanza miimjadala msiyoiweza. Wananchi wanatusubiri tuwatumikie. Mungu awabariki.