The Grammar and Sarufi Thread

The Grammar and Sarufi Thread

Reginald12 said:
The goat is the subject because that is what the rest of the sentence is talking about. The hyena is optional in that sentence since in a passive sentence the focus is on the action rather than the 'doer'. If you lost your phone you would say, 'My phone has been stolen' if you don't know who did it but use an active sentence if you did -'Tom stole my phone'. The phone is the subject of the first sentence and Tom is the subject of the second.
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kweli kidhungu kilikuja na melikebu. ngoja niendelee kujifunza. Asante kwa jibu
 
Goat is subject because it is the one which is been spoken "The goat was killed by hynena" but I have questions in a particular sentence, Can (was) be used at same time with word which indicates past tense Eg-(Killed)?
 
Filipo Lubua said:
So you want to say that in the sentence "The goat was killed by a hyena" the subject is "hyena"?
The problem in your definition is that while the subject is syntactically described, you described it semantically. Subject of a sentence is a syntactical entity, and it should always be described in that paramenter. The correct definition of the subject is "the figure or part of sentence that s described by the rest part of the sentence". This definition is inclussive. It includes such syntactic categories as that clauses, wh- clauses, gerunds and infinitives, etc. which are not included in your former definition.
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Mr Q said:
kwa maana hiyo mbuzi anakuwa subject kwa sababu ndiye anaye elezwa na the rest part of the sentence? nahitaji ufafanuzi zaidi kutoka kwako.
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Ulichosema ni sahihi kabisa, na ndio maana nikasema maana ya Subject (Kiima) haikotolewa kwa usahihi na aliyeanzisha uzi, maana yeye alisema subject (Kiima) ni mtu, kitu au mahali panapozungumziwa katika sentensi.
 
Filipo Lubua said:
The goat was killed by a hyena
Which is the subject in my sentence above? Do you think it matches with the definition you gave on your thread, that the subject the person or thing that is doing something?
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I think he is on truck. Hyena is the subject tho it isn't a person. It is included under the group of either things or person coz a person is an animal just as the hyena only classes differ.
 
M2flan said:
Goat is subject because it is the one which is been spoken "The goat was killed by hynena" but I have questions in a particular sentence, Can (was) be used at same time with word which indicates past tense Eg-(Killed)?
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The passive construction is realised by using a form of the verb 'be' + the past participle. 'be' has eight forms - be, am, is, are, was, were, been and being.

Only the auxiliary 'to be' changes to reflect tense and number - is -was, are -were....the participle remains the same.

So the marker for tense here is the auxiliary verb and not the main verb (killed) which is used in the past participle form to result in the passive construction.
 
Mekatilili said:
This is arguably the most productive thread on this forum. Do you have questions about grammar and sarufi? This is a crowdsourcing platform that will help you find the answers.
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Grammar in Kiswahili is sarufi and sarufi in English is grammar.

So how can one have questions about both grammar and sarufi? Pray tell.
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
Grammar in Kiswahili is sarufi and sarufi in English is grammar.

So how can one have questions about both grammar and sarufi? Pray tell.
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The thread is meant for English and Kiswahili. Review the use of conjunctions in a sentence.🙂
 
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Mekatilili said:
The thread is meant for English and Kiswahili. Review the use of conjunctions in a sentence.🙂
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I know the use of conjunctions like the back of my hand and that's why you left me bewildered!

Your sentence "Do you have questions about grammar and sarufi?........

Is not different from "Do you sell water and maji?

So what you did there is join two words of two different languages but of the same exact meaning.

That is a grammatical felony offense!

If indeed the thread was meant for both English and Kiswahili, then the least I would have expected to see is a heading that wholly reflected that intent, not partly and wrongly!




 
Nyani Ngabu said:
I know the use of conjunctions like the back of my hand and that's why you left me bewildered!

Your sentence "Do you have questions about grammar and sarufi?........

Is not different from "Do you sell water and maji?

So what you did there is join two words of two different languages but of the same exact meaning.

That is a grammatical felony offense!

If indeed the thread was meant for both English and Kiswahili, then the least I would have expected to see is a heading that wholly reflected that intent, not partly and wrongly!
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Comparing "grammar and sarufi" to "water and maji" is a false equivalency; "Grammar" refers to the syntax, rules and vocabulary associated with the English language, whereas "Sarufi" refers to the syntax, rules and vocabulary associated with Swahili.

Water and Maji are one and the same—we do not have European H2O or African H2O.

The conjunction "or" was not used in the sentence. Please review the usage of the conjunction "and."

Please do not derail this thread.
 
Mekatilili said:
Comparing "grammar and sarufi" to "water and maji" is a false equivalency;
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No, it's not a false equivalency. It's not because it's analogous to the mistake you made. Water in Kiswahili is maji and maji in English is water.

Now to your mistake, grammar in Kiswahili is sarufi and sarufi in English is grammar. You can't use the conjunction 'and' for words that have the same exact meaning in two different languages. In 'grammar and sarufi', if you flip 'sarufi' to English you get 'grammar and grammar' and if you flip 'grammar' to Kiswahili you get 'sarufi and sarufi'.

Don't tell me that makes sense to you because if it does then I wouldn't know where to put you. Where did you learn your grammar, usage, and mechanics of language?

"Grammar" refers to the syntax, rules and vocabulary associated with the
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English language, whereas "Sarufi" refers to the syntax, rules and vocabulary associated with Swahili.
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Exactly! So grammar in Kiswahili is sarufi and sarufi in English is grammar. So how can you say 'grammar and sarufi' when both words are direct translations of each other in both English and Kiswahili.

Aren't you not getting what I'm pointing out here? Because you are acting real discombobulated!

Water and Maji are one and the same-we do not have European H2O or African H2O.
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And so are the words 'grammar' and 'sarufi'. Grammar in Kiswahili is sarufi and sarufi in English is grammar. Water in Kiswahili is maji and maji in English is water. Just as you can't say maji and water you can't say sarufi and grammar.

What is so difficult to understand there?

Please do not derail this thread.
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I'm not derailing anything. Just setting things straight.
 
Nyani Ngabu said:


No, it's not a false equivalency. It's not because it's analogous to the mistake you made. Water in Kiswahili is maji and maji in English is water...........
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Again, review your conjunctions. It is evident you do not understand the application of "and" and "or."

Sarufi is not a loanword. The usage of a foreign word denotes its application in the context of the source language. Grammar is the body of syntax and rules applicable to the English language, whereas Sarufi is the body of syntax and rules applicable to Swahili.

Sarufi and grammar are not used interchangeably because they represent 2 distinct languages!


 
Mekatilili said:
Again, review your conjunctions. It is evident you do not understand the application of "and" and "or."

Sarufi is not a loanword. The usage of a foreign word denotes its application in the context of the source language. Grammar is the body of syntax and rules applicable to the English language, whereas Sarufi is the body of syntax and rules applicable to Swahili.

Sarufi and grammar are not used interchangeably because they represent 2 distinct languages!
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What is grammar in Kiswahili?
 
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