The Migingo Saga: Kenya vs Uganda, why?!

[Ab-Titchaz]

The controversy is getting deeper coz M7 wants all three islands:

http://www.eastandard.net/news/InsidePage.php?id=1144014127&cid=159&​

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

I need to ask. If M7 says the island is Kenya but the water is UG's then why is he arguing over the island? Maybe my understanding is small in this but if you say the cone is yours not the ice cream then why argue over the ice cream? If M7 admits the island is Kenya's then if his troops step foot in it he is the one breaking international rules not kenya unless he plans to send in the navy hahaha.

There was a thread on why M7 should go but Smatta was arguing Tanzanians were picking a fight with every East African state. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you Smatta as far as I'm concerned I'm cool with you. My question is do you still believe leaders like M7 should be in power? Or I'm I interfering with the affairs of others? Now do you see why Tanzanians are skeptical about the EAF? If we join & become one that will automatically make Migingo also apart of UG & othe EA land so why is he fighting over it? The same land which will be the property of all once we become a federation is being faught over now so what does that show you?

I think this crisis is enough evidence why East Africa doesn't need leaders like M7 or any other bad leaders. I think this is enough proof to justify the fear of Tanzanians over the federation. If I'm wrong someone correct me.

 

[Smatta]

I need to ask. If M7 says the island is Kenya but the water is UG's then why is he arguing over the island? Maybe my understanding is small in this but if you say the cone is yours not the ice cream then why argue over the ice cream? If M7 admits the island is Kenya's then if his troops step foot in it he is the one breaking international rules not kenya unless he plans to send in the navy hahaha.

There was a thread on why M7 should go but Smatta was arguing Tanzanians were picking a fight with every East African state. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you Smatta as far as I'm concerned I'm cool with you. My question is do you still believe leaders like M7 should be in power? Or I'm I interfering with the affairs of others? Now do you see why Tanzanians are skeptical about the EAF? If we join & become one that will automatically make Migingo also apart of UG & othe EA land so why is he fighting over it? The same land which will be the property of all once we become a federation is being faught over now so what does that show you?

I think this crisis is enough evidence why East Africa doesn't need leaders like M7 or any other bad leaders. I think this is enough proof to justify the fear of Tanzanians over the federation. If I'm wrong someone correct me.

I had a problem with you personally because I presume you and your ilk think you have a solution for every problem- no matter how minute, that is affecting other EA countries, that was my bone of contention. Its undeniable that the president of Uganda is a dictator, but the citizenry do not show discord with the way he is steering his country, so who are we to comment? who are we to incite leadership change in a country 'satisfied' with its leaders.

Uganda's president should simply stick to his country instead of trying to spread his dictatorial tentacles to sovereign states, thats a fact. And he knows that Kibaki might take his abuses sitting down but Kenyans will block all the roads in Busia and other border towns which are used to transit goods to UG. He hates our guts and he knows that we can do whatever we please, and he can say nothing but throw insults from across the border.

 

[Abdulhalim]

Mapovu tu..

Sasa mnataka tuanzishe Forum ya East Africa mtuletee mapovu zaidi. lol.

 

[Abdulhalim]

I think 'Jokes and Utani' forums will suit me better than having a 'discussion' or rather a mapovu match ..for that case

 

[Smatta]

I think 'Jokes and Utani' forums will suit me better than having a 'discussion' or rather a mapovu match ..for that case

I think I saw a jokes forum in JF, thats where you should take your clowning, we have freedom of speech, we can discuss anything under the sun, and the best thing you can do to spare yourself the embarrassment and save on some of your precious time, is to ignore forums involving EA, coz I will ALWAYS be there to pick a fight with your kind. That said, let me take my breakfast.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Mtindiowaubongo any great thinker is not afraid of debating. You have to be able to say something and defend it even if it's a matter of opinion. I have no problem debating with our Kenyan or Ugandan neighbors as long as it is done in a respectable way. The fact is the East African Federation is in motion & even if it weren't we Tanzanians can't live in isolation. I am not scared to defend what I believe in. The truth is all EA countries have there problem, if we could just talk without insults we could learn a lot from each other. I have seen that this name calling and constant jabs we are throwing each other isn't getting us any where. I presume you are a Tanzanian like me, if not my apologies. If you are a Tanzanian & you believe in all that is good about Tanzanian like me, I don't see any reason not to talk about it. Lakini if you feel strongly that an East African forum will disgust you then you are right in staying away from it. I on the other hand prefer to be playing in the field rather than watch from the side lines. I'm not scared of healthy competition from Kenyans. What I hate is uncalled for name calling & insults. I think it's time to be diplomatic. I am ready to talk with other East Africans & if others are not then it's up to them. I wish you could change your mind & support discussions among East Africans but it's ultimately up to you. I am a Tanzanian just like you so if I'm open to talks I don't see why you shouldn't be. Running away from problems never solved anything & thats why Tanzania is in the state it's in now. I'm ready to forge ahead. Don't you think it is better to educate people about Tanzania rather then let them continue with their misconceptions?

 

[Smatta]

why are despising on women who are pregnant, dont you know once your mother was pregnant with you ? Any hoo am not offended with your abuses, they are expected from people with low IQs who cant be challenged intelligently. I bet a thao, wewe ni ***** thats why you have a problem with pregnant women.

 

[Offish]

Museveni has a haboured hate for Raila

Empirical evidence shows that a ruler like M7 does not last more than 4 decades, his exit might not only be around the corner, but it's itching. I can't imagine that he can be doing exactly what dictator Idd Amin did to Tanzania 32 years ago. He is preparing for his own downfall by underestimating Raila, I bet...

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

Smatta and Mtindio,

please gentlemen keep your tantrums to yourselves ama mtumiane PM.
Mwenzenu niimeondoka kidogo na niliporudi naona mnapigana makonzi tu.

Please lets be civil from here forthwith.

Regards.

 

[Manda]

It has been controversial when MU7 come up with such silly remarks, however neither of us did question the rationality/validity of Odinga going to Kibera slums few weeks ago, na kuwatanganzia wakazi wa pale kuwa 'wasiwe na wasiwasi Migingo ni mali ya Kenya na itarudi tu mikononi wa wakenya'....how did he dare to give such remarks while the issue was under scruntiny?,

Because as far as am concerned sijui hawa jamaa diplomasia yao walisoma wapi, kwanini wasingekaa kimya as much as kulikuwa na timu ya wataalam ambao walikuwa wanafanya re-demarcation kuangalia undani wa sakata?

FOOD FOR THE THOUGHT kwa EAF, na ishu zenu za LAND!, watz, tulipokuwa tunasemama 'bado tupo tupo' kwenye Federation yenu mlisema . U CAN GO FOR UR OWN...Haya sasa, na kwa hili je?,

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

It has been controversial when MU7 come up with such silly remarks, however neither of us did question the rationality/validity of Odinga going to Kibera slums few weeks ago, na kuwatanganzia wakazi wa pale kuwa 'wasiwe na wasiwasi Migingo ni mali ya Kenya na itarudi tu mikononi wa wakenya'....how did he dare to give such remarks while the issue was under scruntiny?,

Because as far as am concerned sijui hawa jamaa diplomasia yao walisoma wapi, kwanini wasingekaa kimya as much as kulikuwa na timu ya wataalam ambao walikuwa wanafanya re-demarcation kuangalia undani wa sakata?

FOOD FOR THE THOUGHT kwa EAF, na ishu zenu za LAND!, watz, tulipokuwa tunasemama 'bado tupo tupo' kwenye Federation yenu mlisema . U CAN GO FOR UR OWN...Haya sasa, na kwa hili je?,

Manda,

Sema mtani wangu.heshima mbele na afadhali tumekutana humu na sio
kule kwengine mlikonipiga bao na Man U yenu...🙂

Back to the issue at hand. Migingo belongs to Kenya period hamna cha
debate wala nini.Si M7 mwenyewe kasema kisiwa ni cha Kenya lakini maji
ni yake?..Ulisoma hio kitu? I have no problem with Raila addressing his
constituents on the Migingo issue maana he did not advocate for
physical confrontation.

Huyu M7 tukubaliane ni mtu mbaya sana and believe you me akimalizana na
Kenya without being checked, atatupigia hodi bongo.Tanzania pia ina
visiwa ndani ya Ziwa Victoria na jamaa huenda ikawa ana mipangilio ya
kuvichukua. He has taken advantage of the fact the Kenya Govt has
been asleep on the wheel even to the point of neglecting to protect
their citizens who live there.Yeye akaamua atangulize kupeleka mgambo
wake huko na kupandisha bendera.

Nilipokua nasoma Kenya kuna mshkaji alikua anatoka mpakani Busia na
kuna wakati during holidays alikua anaenda kuzuga kwenye hivi visiwa.
Alikua akinipa maelezo about those places and how fishing was a lucrative
business.Tatizo lilikua kwamba hamna serikali or anything to show Kenya's
ownership of these Islands mainly because wajaluo nd'o walikua
inhabitants and this is a community that has really been marginalised by
successive regimes in Kenya.We were having these conversations more
than 15yrs ago.Sasa leo yanatokea na mwenzio nashangaa tu kwamba
the Kenyan Govt has done this far to put a mark on those Islands.

P.S. Umeshaisikia ile seketa ya Bakasi Peninsular between Nigeria na
Cameroon?Ni same story na ilibidi ipelekwe UN for arbitration.

 

[Masanja]

You know getting engrossed in arguments with people whose only understanding of issues related to security is when they watch Rambo movies is at times hard. But as an eye opener, i invite those in a deep illusion to consider the following.

1) Study the declared weaponry of the Kenya armed forces and compare them with the outdated arsenal of U.P.D.F (I believe Abs has already done that)
2) What is the morale level in U.P.D.F? Imagine it takes U.P.D.F to use A.P.Cs against the some cattle rustlers.
3)How many Kenyan security personnel have ever defected to uganda?
4)How long has it taken U.P.D.F to fight Kony and yet the battle is not yet over??
What is the logistic support efficiency of U.P.D.F? with the large Uganda army.
5)How much do they spend per soldier per year compare that with Kenya(look at the military budgets of the two countries)
6)Why does it take Uganda to drive A.P.C.s in the CBD of the capital because of a small security or terror alert?( because they are a very insecure lot).
7) Most of Uganda's army equipment transits through kenya that is a fact they cannot run away from. capabilities of these weapons are part of doctrine training for the KENYA security forces. and i insist that a lot of the weopons held by U.P.D.F ARE VERY VERY out dated.
8) What is the serviceability of Ugandan air force fighters? Are they aware of the real K.A.F capabilities?
9) Can U.P.D.F face an organized army????????? so far if they have ever had any victories it has been against rag tag armies. That does not make U.P.D.F soldiers battle hardened. whom were they fighting in D.R.C???? REMEMBER they had to withdraw in a huff when the Angolans appeared!!!!!!!! what happened when they faced the Rwandese army???? M7 HAD TO NEGOTIATE HIS WAY OUT OF THE potential embarrassment.
10) How long can Uganda sustain a war? they are too poor to last an intense war that exceeds three week of serious combat. Kenya despite the political problems has sufficient resource to put a sustained intense attack which will see us establish military presence in Kampala in less than two weeks. that is the truth. By the way land mine production is not a factor in assessment of military prowess.modern nations are moving away from Production and use of land mine. The fact that Uganda is busy producing such items which are clearly banned under a U.N declaration should be a testimony enough to confirm that the weapons belong to the museum.

The battle phases with Kenya would be as follows

1) Within 5 days Kenya would be in charge of Uganda's airspace and more than half of their old tanks and artillery would have been destroyed. Kenyan ground forces would be half way to Kampala.meanwhile Entebe which is very strategic to Uganda would have fallen and the G.S.U together with other elements of the Kenya police would be engaged in a mop up exercise in that town.
2) By day 10 Kampala would be in our sight and the remnant of U.P.D.F would be in total retreat while a large number would have either defected,deserted or melted into civilian population. Ugandan politicians would be pressing the international community to effect a cease fire.
3) By day 14 Kenyan troops will be taking coffee made in Kenya in Kampala.

How about that...

Mkuu,

Nadhani wewe ulikuwa Advisor wa Bush 2003 alipoivamia Iraq! Maana it was assumed the military might of United States would have cleared Baghdad within 24 hours! (remember shock and awe-lol). But seven years on, the battle is still on. with billions of $$ going under the bridge everyday! Or ask TALIBAN WANAVYOWATOA KAMASI PAKISTANI ARMY WHICH IS APPARENTLY THE 7TH LARGEST ARMY IN THE WORLD..WITH A NUCLEAR ARSENAL MOREVER..Kwa nini binadamu hatujifunzi katika historia lakini? Anyway ndo maana inaitwa historia..perhaps tungejifunza..kusingekuwa na historia!

Ushindi wa vita siyo silaha ni courage. I for one sishabikii vita..Lakini you are dead wrong kufikiri kwamba Kenya inaweza kuwapiga waganda....hivi wewe hujiulizi watu ambao wamekaa kwenye jungle miaka nenda rudi? Well Smatta atasema they have fought wars but they have never won any war..But atleast they have won some battles. in anyway sidhani kama Kenya imeshawahi kupigana popote. So, you might as well check hata kama wanajua kuoperate hizo machine.

Smatta..do you really think a soldier can gain fighting experience kwenye "peacekeeping mission"? You must be kidding buddy!

Anyway..what I see the profile of Migingo is becoming bigger kwa sababu ya hizi endless war of words...hii sehemu imeshakuwa strategic sasa..perhaps iwekwe under joint sovereignty kuepusha zali zaidi.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

The problem with our leaders is that they were the fruits of the independence struggle and still live in the past. Some also have the mental problems of George W Bush of being irrational. This issue there shouldn't have been any talks of war at this moment. The maps are there, M7 has admitted the island is Kenya's so it shows that he is just testing his strength. This whole issue with some of our leaders in EA is what scares me in regards to a federation. I know the citizens themselves a cool people but I never trust the intentions of politicians. We all know M7 is East Africa's version of Gaddafi and he is hoping to capitalize on the federation to rule for life over a greater area of land. I don't care if Ugandans are satisfied with having a "king" rule over them but there are some politics which Tanzanians are not used to & I would not like the diseases of other countries to infect my own considering we already have our own illnesses troubling us.

He is saying the waters are his wakati Uganda's cross over to Bukoba in Tanzania every day as if they haven't crossed borders. I don't know exactly what M7 wants or what he is trying to achieve but lets wait & see.

 

[Exaud J. Makyao]

You know getting engrossed in arguments with people whose only understanding of issues related to security is when they watch Rambo movies is at times hard. But as an eye opener, i invite those in a deep illusion to consider the following.

1) Study the declared weaponry of the Kenya armed forces and compare them with the outdated arsenal of U.P.D.F...............
How about that...

HELLFIRE,
Nothing convincing in your list.
I see it just as a heap of unworkable datas.

UGANDA is better ranking in active troops when compared with Kenya.This is the foremost indicator of military efficiency.

 

[Kahinda]

Mtindiowaubongo any great thinker is not afraid of debating. You have to be able to say something and defend it even if it's a matter of opinion. I have no problem debating with our Kenyan or Ugandan neighbors as long as it is done in a respectable way. The fact is the East African Federation is in motion & even if it weren't we Tanzanians can't live in isolation. I am not scared to defend what I believe in. The truth is all EA countries have there problem, if we could just talk without insults we could learn a lot from each other. I have seen that this name calling and constant jabs we are throwing each other isn't getting us any where. I presume you are a Tanzanian like me, if not my apologies. If you are a Tanzanian & you believe in all that is good about Tanzanian like me, I don't see any reason not to talk about it. Lakini if you feel strongly that an East African forum will disgust you then you are right in staying away from it. I on the other hand prefer to be playing in the field rather than watch from the side lines. I'm not scared of healthy competition from Kenyans. What I hate is uncalled for name calling & insults. I think it's time to be diplomatic. I am ready to talk with other East Africans & if others are not then it's up to them. I wish you could change your mind & support discussions among East Africans but it's ultimately up to you. I am a Tanzanian just like you so if I'm open to talks I don't see why you shouldn't be. Running away from problems never solved anything & thats why Tanzania is in the state it's in now. I'm ready to forge ahead. Don't you think it is better to educate people about Tanzania rather then let them continue with their misconceptions?

Are we ready for the East African Federation or not?.

 

[Koba]

...hakuna war itatokea kwa Migingo,mnaofikiri hivyo hamna tofauti na Somali pirates!

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Are we ready for the East African Federation or not?.

No we are not. I have always been against the rushing of the East African Federation. I just think we need an exclusive forum for East Africa as a platform to discuss such issues as the East African Federation. The forum will be about East Africa in general & matters concerning East Africa not just the federation. Business could be discussed, politics, music, fashion even celebrities so long as it's in regard to East Africa.

To answer your question point blank, as it stands right now, I don't think Tanzania is ready for the federation.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

...hakuna war itatokea kwa Migingo,mnaofikiri hivyo hamna tofauti na Somali pirates!

No body is thinking of war, the key word is "IF". There are never winners in are war. We all want to avoid war by all means & right now as it stands it seems it won't reach to that extent.

 

[urithiwetu]

Im usually reserved on this issue because there is more than meets the eye on the Uganda Migingo issue, we can uproot the railway line all year but Kibaki will never act against Museveni.. Have you ever noticed that the dudes greet each other using the left hand, even in public with cameras blazing. They have a ka- strange, unexplainable bond which started way back before the botched 2007 election.

Museveni has a haboured hate for Raila, to the extent of showing their dislike for each other in public. We are just mere speculators in the power play between Kla and Nrb, but I know of some people who wount sleep until the truth comes to light.

Shame on Mzee Kibaki, he can't even protect the territorial integrity of the country he is supposed to be the President of. It seems he is falling into Museveni's trap by thinking that M7 is not humiliating Kenyans, but 'only' Jaluos. The bond is because only M7 and GWBush recognised the botched Presidential election.

Museveni is acting like a new Iddi Amin. Don't you have a Mwalimu Nyerere in Kenya to liberate Uganda from the yoke of the Muserveni family; Yoweri the de facto President-for-life (just like Iddi Amin declared himself), Janeth the MP and Minister, and Kainerugaba Museveni the State House Chief of Security?