The so called 'GOD' from religions

[Arduino Sentinel]

Ok,Let us use Logic to Prove existence of God

But before I begin my proof,I think is better to start with the simple premises that all we agree with.

Let's begin...
It's undeniably true that something exist.Otherwise we would not be here right now in JF
so it's true something exist,and that is my first premise

The second one,Something can never exist from Nothing
Actually this is oldest scientific principle and it is self evident too

Ex nihilo nihil fit,Do you believe it kaka before I proceed with my Argument?

I know where you are trying to go and what your trying to archive,,simple question,if something can never exist from nothing,where is god from???

To make a long story short,
the only answer to this nothing something puzzle is , since nothing is an infinite void as i said before in my early posts(if you wonder how comes nothing as characteristics,refer those posts),nothing else can exist except for the universe(maybe one or many) that is contained within it,of which every something has cause,so if you ask where the universe was from,actually was form something inside nothing!

 

[Mish Albert]

Negatives can't be proved, as a rule. That has nothing to do with this issue, it is the philosophy of proofs.

Positives, on the other hand, can be proved.

It is incumbent upon those who say god exists to prove that. That is the only way to comprehensively settle the question.

You have admitted inability to be able to show that.

Ok,maybe you are right
But if I have failed to prove existence of God,does that mean God is not there?

Why you regard absence of evidence as evidence of absence?

 

[kethika]

Never argue with people of this nature and perception. Never try to do so because God Himself deals with them in a way that ever body always terrified the way He does to them.

 

[Kiranga]

Ok,maybe you are right
But if I have failed to prove existence of God,does that mean God is not there?

Why you regard absence of evidence as evidence of absence?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

But it is not evidence of presence either.

Why are you taking absence of evidence as evidence of presence?

The only thing that would show definitely that god exists, is impeccable evidence and proof that god exists.

Which you can't give us.

If you go willy nilly regarding anything that does not have evidence of existence as existing just because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you are bound to accept that a round triangle exists in Euclidean geometry.

Now, does a round triangle exist in Eclidean geometry?

 

[Kiranga]

Never argue with people of this nature and perception. Never try to do so because God Himself deals with them in a way that ever body always terrified the way He does to them.

First thing first, prove that god exists before saying god will do this or that.

Else, what you are writing is nere tisha toto.

Kuna mtu alisema ananiombea nipatwe na mabaya ili ku prove kwamba mungu yupo.

Nikasema nampa masaa 24 mungu wake aniue, nishindwe kuja JF.

Jamaa kasepa, mpaka sasa simuoni hapa.

Mungu wenu ni wa makaratasi. Tena hana meno.

 

[Arduino Sentinel]

Never argue with people of this nature and perception. Never try to do so because God Himself deals with them in a way that ever body always terrified the way He does to them.

Like Seriously!!!you scared the shit out of me 😀😀!the so called god must be very evil dictator if he is really doing that to is people!is he swallowing them or something? or is doing the Idd Amini stuffs 😀 !

Poor you,you are one of the biggest victims of religion who thinks even beyond the written myths from the books!i cant even imagine those scary god animations your creating in you mind!

 

[Mish Albert]

I know where you are trying to go and what your trying to archive,,simple question,if something can never exist from nothing,where is god from???

You didn't know where I was trying to go
If you did you would not ask that question

Does the universe is finite?

To make a long story short,
the only answer to this nothing something puzzle is , since nothing is an infinite void as i said before in my early posts(if you wonder how comes nothing as characteristics,refer those posts),nothing else can exist except for the universe(maybe one or many) that is contained within it,of which every something has cause,so if you ask where the universe was from,actually was form something inside nothing!

You are not down even with basic knowledge of quantum mechanics

There is no such thing as Infinite void,all are finite

If universe was finite where earliest stuff came from?

 

[Mish Albert]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

But it is not evidence of presence either.

Why are you taking absence of evidence as evidence of presence?

The only thing that would show definitely that god exists, is impeccable evidence and proof that god exists.

Which you can't give us.

If you go willy nilly regarding anything that does not have evidence of existence as existing just because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you are bound to accept that a round triangle exists in Euclidean geometry.

Now, does a round triangle exist in Eclidean geometry?

No,round triangle does not exist even in curved geometry

So what?
Does idea of God is similar to round triangle?

 

[Kiranga]

No,round triangle does not exist even in curved geometry

So what?
Does idea of God is similar to round triangle?

Yes. The two are similarly self contradicting.

A round triangle is self contradicting in that a triangle cannot be round by definition.

An all loving, all powerful and all capable godhead who create a universe in which evil is possible is self contradicting in that such a god would not create a universe in which evill is possible.

God is like a round triangle, an inherrent contradiction.

One way of telling lies from truth is through tracking logical consistency and contradiction.

By this test, the god idea fails miserably. Just as the round triangle idea does.

 

[Mish Albert]

Yes. The two are similarly self contradicting.

A round triangle is self contradicting in that a triangle cannot be round by definition.

An all loving, all powerful and all capable godhead who create a universe in which evil is possible is self contradicting in that such a god would not create a universe in which evill is possible.

God is like a round triangle, an inherrent contradiction.

One way of telling lies from truth is through tracking logical consistency and contradiction.

By this test, the god idea fails miserably. Just as the round

Before I agree with your above assertion,I need to know firstly if a world without evil can logically exist

How can flawless world pass logical examination?

How can free moral agents exist in flawless world?

If you can cause one to pick only specific choice[doing only good] is that choice free in real sense?

To me,a world without evil is same as round triangle
Else,prove it's not

 

[Kiranga]

Before I agree with your above assertion,I need to know firstly if a world without evil can logically exist

How can flawless world pass logical examination?

How can free moral agents exist in flawless world

If you can cause one to pick only specific choice[doing only good] is that choice free in real sense?

To me,a world without evil is same as round triangle
Else,prove it's

If god is truly all knowing, all powerful and all loving, he ought to have been able to create a universe that was logical and yet did not have evil.

This would have resolved a fundamental contradiction between gods nature and evil. The question of the contradiction of evil would not be there.

If you say god created the foundations of everything, including the foundations of logic, and that this god is all powerful and all knowledgeable, there was nothing to stop him from creating a logic system that does not allow the existence of evil. You have a false prerequisite for duality. Time does not have this duality and yet it moves only forward. This "duality as a fundamental prerequisite" concept is an illussion

The only reason you are finding it hard to understand a logical world in which evil does not exist is because you exist in a world in which evil exists.

Let me give you an example.

I will go back to the time example.

You do not find it odd that we cannot travel backwards in time, time only moves forward.

In fact, you would find it odd if someone say they are going back to 1982.

Why should a world without evil be any more different than a world without backward time travel?

If god was able to create a ligical world in which backwards time travel is not possible to humans, why is the idea of a logical world in which evil is not possible so different and strange?

 

[Arduino Sentinel]

You didn't know where I was trying to go
If you did you would not ask that question

Does the universe is finite?

You are not down even with basic knowledge of quantum mechanics

There is no such thing as Infinite void,all are finite

If universe was finite where earliest stuff came from?

I think your trying argue with a physics book on your hands!very funny!Lets go slowly,you probably have a potential to understand,i wont leave you behind.

The context of nothing am trying to use it as a special meaning,not a day to day phase,and that is the problem with you,,i told you before,refer to my past post,i have notice something from you,you have just start to grasp knowledge,not a bad thing,the problem is, your trying to use every thing without deeply understand them,quantum physics isn't something to play around with kid,we will never understand each other when i use it in my reference,,your still on the basics,and you said it yourself when talking to kiranga,your not doing bad though,you have a lot to learn,we both have even i!

Back to the point,what i have being trying to explain to you,its in a visual form,visualize it,mayabe lemme help you crack the code,as i used nothing in my early posts,{infinite void}[endless & empty],If nothing exists it would HAVE to be infinite.This is a result of it not being allowed any boundaries, as a boundary would place a limit on nothing's size and furthermore would also indicate that there was something existing on the 'other ' side of the boundary, apart from the boundary itself existing.This would be contrary to our definition of both infinite and of nothing. This also, it should be noted, excludes anything existing in any other dimension, or dimensions, as a dimension would then be a boundary.

Nothing then, when described as an infinite void, excludes all possibility of anything else existing, anywhere.I hope I have made this point absolutely clear, this is what having nothing would mean, absolutely nothing anywhere. The only conclusion I can draw from that is nothing cannot exist because the universe does, we do.

Could nothing have existed in the past? No. If it existed in the past, then some event must have taken place to end it. An event would be impossible in nothing, so nothing could never have existed because we do, and as our universe now exists, nothing can never exist in the future either. Why could an event not happen in nothing? Because apart from the obvious that there is nothing to happen, an event would create and require a moment in time. There can be no time in nothing as relativity describes time as just another dimension.

As for Time, without it nothing must have always existed, it can not have a beginning or end because either would create a moment in time. It would inreality be meaningless to ask how long nothing has existed and how long it will continue to exist, it would be eternal and unchanging. Again, because we exist, nothing could not have had an existence because the creation of the universe would have required a significant change, thus contravening an unchanging nothing.

Nothing can not have any laws of physics because there is nothing to apply those laws to, also the very concept of having laws contravenes our description of nothing. In the absence of any basic laws, let alone matter, how could anything be created? Once again, because we exist nothing could not have.

Could the universe have been created in nothing? No, for the reasons stated above. However, just for the sake of argument, let us imagine it was. If the universe was created in nothing then where was it 'put'? If somewhere 'outside' of nothing, this would require an 'outside' to pre exist, but it could not because that would require a boundary. It can not be ' put' within nothing, because containing a universe would no longer be within our definition of nothing.
So far due to the simple definition i have created there a conditions placed,and those conditions are the one that will help us put the universe into nothing.

NOTE:-Remember,to understand the universe creation of its on self on this 'nothing thingy',we should agree on a few simple ground rules to try and keep the argument logical. Without the constraints of logic we could simply conjure up any description or semi-mystical event we wish in our attempt to make our model work, which would render the argument rather pointless. So here are the rules:

1) Once a definition has been made it can not be changed without starting a new definition.

2) An event must be possible within the framework of known science.

3) All events must follow a logical order within the given definition.

Due to those rules,So as 'nothing thingy' to contain the universe,the new definition that wont change the first def of nothing,will be created

Are we together so far?

 

[Maziku-Winston Smith]

Never argue with people of this nature and perception. Never try to do so because God Himself deals with them in a way that ever body always terrified the way He does to them.

Where is this God who can terrify the people who do not believe in Him?

 

[Mish Albert]

If god is truly all knowing, all powerful and all loving, he ought to have been able to create a universe that was logical and yet did not have evil.

This would have resolved a fundamental contradiction between gods nature and evil. The question of the contradiction of evil would not be there.

If you say god created the foundations of everything, including the foundations of logic, and that this god is all powerful and all knowledge

I don't think if your journey to the past analogy is logically valid
It seems you have failed to compare the like
You can not compare evil to time travel

We know there is such thing as movin' back time because we are living in a world where time is part of dimension,time is already here

How could you know about movin' back in time if time would not exist?

How could you know about evil if evil would not exist?

How could you differentiate blue from pink if pink was not there?

Your analogy is flawed,it has failed even that simple logic

 

[Nonda]

If god is truly all knowing, all powerful and all loving, he ought to have been able to create a universe that was logical and yet did not have evil.

Wewe unataka kumpangia Mungu aumbe kwa aina unayotaka wewe?

Ulitaka pia chakula unachokula kikitoka mdomo wa chini kiwe kinanukia kama ua la waridi?

Au huoni ni mkanganyiko unakula keki na mahanjumati lakini ukiachia upepo kila mtu anakuuliza "umekula vyura"? Na ukienda ile nyumba kubwa wanauliza, "kuna mwenye perfume hapa tupulizie huku?"

Link True Islam - Human suffering

Nimeona sehemu wanasema smaku ina positive na negative, je ni kweli? Je ni mkinzano huo?

 

[Kiranga]

I don't think if your journey to the past analogy is logically valid
It seems you have failed to compare the like
You can not compare evil to time travel

We know there is such thing as movin' back time because we are living in a world where time is part of dimension,time is already here

How could you know about movin' back in time if time would not exist?

How could you know about evil if evil would not exist?

How could you differentiate blue from pink if pink was not there?

Your analogy is flawed,it has failed even that simple logic

Try to read and understand before replying, else you will expose your incoherence and lack of grasp of simple logical thinking.

How is comparing two entitie's negative and positive directions ( evil as the negative direction of the evil/good apectrum compared to backward time travel as the negative direction of time travel) not comparing likes?

They are both vector entities with dierection and spectrum. Why are you saying I am not comparibg likes? Where are the specifics of your argument?

You are saying you know there is moving back in time, that is not the question. You are answering a question I did not ask while not answering the question I asked.

I asked, can you go back in time in the natural world? You have not answered this question.

Your argument becomes incoherent, because you are avoiding the fundamental truth.

Evil is the opposite of goood just as moving backwards in time is the opposite of moving forward in time.

You are saying good cannot exist without evil, we need evil to even have good.

I am saying your argument is flawed.

Because we do not need negative to appreciate positive.

Just as we do not need backward time travel (negative time travel) to appreciate forward time travel (positive time travel).

You have not answered my question.

If god is all powerful, all knowing and all loving, why did he not create a world in which evil is not possible? Just as he presumably created a world in which backward time travel is not possible but we still appreciate forward time travel, why did he not create a world in which evil is not posssible but we still apprecuate good?

If god created a world in which backward time travel is not possible, what prevented him from creating a world in which evil is similarly not possible?

 

[Kiranga]

Wewe unataka kumpangia Mungu aumbe kwa aina unayotaka wewe?

Ulitaka pia chakula unachokula kikitoka mdomo wa chini kiwe kinanukia kama ua la waridi?

Au huoni ni mkanganyiko unakula keki na mahanjumati lakini ukiachia upepo kila mtu anakuuliza "umekula vyura"? Na ukienda ile nyumba kubwa wanauliza, "kuna mwenye perfume hapa tupulizie huku?"

Link True Islam - Human suffering

Nimeona sehemu wanasema smaku ina positive na negative, je ni kweli? Je ni mkinzano huo?

Coherence please.

If an all loving, all knowledgeable and all powerful godhead had created the universe, there wouldn't even be a question of "kwenda nyumba kubwa".

The fact that there is such a question points to the truth that there is no such god.

 

[Eiyer]

Kiranga ,unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa huwezi kurudi nyuma katika muda?

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga ,unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa huwezi kurudi nyuma katika muda?

Kurudi nyuma katika muda inabidi upite speed ya mwanga (the speed of light =299 792 458 m / s )


Ili kitu chochote chenye uzito kifikie speed ya mwanga, inabidi kitumie infinity energy. Einstein's Relativity has established this solidly for more than 100 years. If you can disprove this, there is a physics Nobel prize waiting for you.

Hata kitu kidogo sana chenye uzito kikipewa energy yote iliyo katika universe, hakiwezi kufikia speed ya mwanga. Hivyo hakiwezi kurudi nyuma katika muda.

Zaidi ya yote, ni wajibu wa anayesema kwamba kurudi nyuma katika muda kunawezekana ku prove hivyo. Kama kurudi nyuma katika muda hakuwezekani, hakuna anayeweza kuthibitisha hakuwezekani zaidi ya nilivyoeleza hapo juu, kwa sababu kisichowezekana hakithibitishiki kwa vitendo kwamba hakiwezekani, kwa sababu hakiwezekani. You can't prove a negative.

So, the question becomes. Unaweza ku prove kwamba kurudi nyuma katika muda kunawezekana?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I can say this is beyond my understanding, i will cling and hold to God and Christianity until the day i meet Him. if He wont be there i then will be on the safe side rather than not believing halafu ukufe umkute that is when you will realize that you had better believed.