Three Ugandan Choppers go missing in Kenyan Airspace!

[Bukyanagandi]

kwahiyo ni kweli zote zimeanguka isipokuwa moja tu...

Cha ajabu ni kwamba moja iliyo nusurika ni chopper ya kawaida tu ya kubebea troops na haina tishio lolote kwa watu/taifa, lakini hizi tatu ambazo ni babu kubwa kwenye nyanja za kivita didn't see the light of the DAY!!!

Ni kituo gani wali refuel kwa mara ya mwisho, nani aliwashauri CREW kupitia kwenye route yenye milima mikali na equatorial forest na hali ya hewa ambayo ilikuwa mbaya sana! Hivi kazi ya ma traffic controller ni nini hasa?

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Mkuu, hata sijui tuseme aje,

unajua ikija hiyo mambo ya COMM/RF na radar, nabaki tu nimepotea. Lakini swali, hii ni improved version ya HIND A, HIND B or HIND D tactical multirole chopper, ambayo iko na anti tanks guided weapons pylons?! Kwa sasa tungoje tu kama kawa kamati ya kuchunguza kiini halisi cha ajali hiyo.

lakini unajua upepo mkali wa milimani unaweza sababisha ajali ni tukio imeshawahi tokea hata ulaya. Tena haiwezekani walikuwa wamekunywa pombe wakati wa kuanza safari maana hawa walikuwa katika safari ya kuelekea kupigana na AS. Kwa hivyo hii ilikuwa mission critical.

Aha, nimesoma somewhere kwamba kumbe CREWS walikuwa-instructed to fly in total RADIO silency!!! Nafikili hili lilikuwa na tactical error kwa upande wao, wanawezaje kuruka kwa kupitia route yenye terrain ambayo hawako familiar nayo, huku waki-maintain RADIO silency hii ina maana wasingeweza kuwasiliana na the nearest Control Tower for HELP, au kupewa UPDATES kuhusu hali ya HEWA!! Wanasema plan za kufanikisha safari hii ziliandaliwa kwa muda wa miezi mitatu - sasa mahandalizi yalishindwaje kuwa na contigency plan just in case.

Oh yes, Kabaridi umenikumbusha kitu kinacho hitwa VENTURI effect. Jinsi nilivyo ona kwenye TV hali ya hewa ilikuwa mbaya sana, kulionikana kuna mist, mvua, baridi, upepo na altitude kama hile ya Mt. Kenya huwezi kokosa barafu - hatari katika urushaji wa Helicopter unatokea wakati main rotor inapo accumulate ice inasababisha madhala mawili-la kwanza ni kuongeza drag kwenye rotor blade, cha pili ambacho ni hatari zaidi ni kupungua kwa lift kutokana na mabadiliko katika aerodyanamic characteristics za main rotor yenyewe baada ya kuzungukwa na barafu, kumbuka main rotor ya chopper ina kazi mbili (i) Propeller (ii) Bawa i.e Wing, inaelezwa kabisa kwamba usihatarishe maisha yako kwa kurusha chopper/ndege kwenye icing conditions.

La mwisho, kumbe Gunship aina ya MI-24 zimekuwa design kuruka umbali wa mita 4500 kutoka usawa wa bahari(above sea level), wakati urefu wa Mt. Kenya ni mita 5199!! Swali ni je, marubani hili hawakulijuwa? Hapa tumelezwa kwamba chopper ya nne aina ya MI-17 ambayo ni ya kubeba troops iliweza ku-clear Mlima huo na kwenda kutua Somalia bila matatizo! Ukiangalia takwimu unakuta kumbe Chopper ya aina ya MI-17 ceiling ya urukaji wake juu ya usawa wa bahari ni mita 6000 yaani urukaji wake unahizidi MI-24 kwa mita karibu 1500, je katika urusha wa ndege hizo zenye specs tofauti marubani walishindwa kulizingatia hilo. Hapa natoa maoni yangu tu siyo kwamba nalahumu mtu au kikundi chochote.

 

[Kabaridi]

Aha, nimesoma somewhere kwamba kumbe CREWS walikuwa-instructed to fly in total RADIO silency!!! Nafikili hili lilikuwa na tactical error kwa upande wao, wanawezaje kuruka kwa kupitia route yenye terrain ambayo hawako familiar nayo, huku waki-maintain RADIO silency hii ina maana wasingeweza kuwasiliana na the nearest Control Tower for HELP, au kupewa UPDATES kuhusu hali ya HEWA!! Wanasema plan za kufanikisha safari hii ziliandaliwa kwa muda wa miezi mitatu - sasa mahandalizi yalishindwaje kuwa na contigency plan just in case.

Oh yes, Kabaridi umenikumbusha kitu kinacho hitwa VENTURI effect. Jinsi nilivyo ona kwenye TV hali ya hewa ilikuwa mbaya sana, kulionikana kuna mist, mvua, baridi, upepo na altitude kama hile ya Mt. Kenya huwezi kokosa barafu - hatari katika urushaji wa Helicopter unatokea wakati main rotor inapo accumulate ice inasababisha madhala mawili-la kwanza ni kuongeza drag kwenye rotor blade, cha pili ambacho ni hatari zaidi ni kupungua kwa lift kutokana na mabadiliko katika aerodyanamic characteristics za main rotor yenyewe baada ya kuzungukwa na barafu, kumbuka main rotor ya chopper ina kazi mbili (i) Propeller (ii) Bawa i.e Wing, inaelezwa kabisa kwamba usihatarishe maisha yako kwa kurusha chopper/ndege kwenye icing conditions.

La mwisho, kumbe Gunship aina ya MI-24 zimekuwa design kuruka umbali wa mita 4500 kutoka usawa wa bahari(above sea level), wakati urefu wa Mt. Kenya ni mita 5199!! Swali ni je, marubani hili hawakulijuwa? Hapa tumelezwa kwamba chopper ya nne aina ya MI-17 ambayo ni ya kubeba troops iliweza ku-clear Mlima huo na kwenda kutua Somalia bila matatizo! Ukiangalia takwimu unakuta kumbe Chopper ya aina ya MI-17 ceiling ya urukaji wake juu ya usawa wa bahari ni mita 6000 yaani urukaji wake unahizidi MI-24 kwa mita karibu 1500, je katika urusha wa ndege hizo zenye specs tofauti marubani walishindwa kulizingatia hilo. Hapa natoa maoni yangu tu siyo kwamba nalahumu mtu au kikundi chochote.

Hii inaleta masikitiko kubwa hasa kwa wapangaji wa kijeshi Uganda kama walikuwa wamepanga miezi tatu kabla. But tofauti ya Mi -17 na -24 ni nini haswa?I Bukyanagandi, Si zote ni HINDS au vipi nisamehe tu niulize kidogo. i think - 24 is an improvement of 17, iweje 24 isipae zaidi katika usawa wa bahari ikilinganishwa na -17. tena kingine Why could they just transport those wepons by road hata kama ni kutaka concealment. hiyo haswa ilifanya iwe ngumu kwa marubani. kama ni kweli vile unasema kuwa walikuwa wanapaa katika unfamiliar territory/flight path without COMM na lazima tu kungetokea ajali Mimi na admire structure ya HINDS aircrafts. Tuseme hakuna aircraft imetengenezwa na architecture ya kustahimili VENTURI EFFECTS?

 

[Bantugbro]

But tofauti ya Mi -17 na -24 ni nini haswa?I Bukyanagandi, Si zote ni HINDS au vipi nisamehe tu niulize kidogo. i think - 24 is an improvement of 17, iweje 24 isipae zaidi katika usawa wa bahari ikilinganishwa na -17...

Kabaridi,

Mil 17s are not a family of, or derivatives of Mil 24/Hinds, Mil 17 are also known as 'Hips'. These hellos are built for transportation only....:hat:

 

[Bantugbro]

For your EYES only::hat:

 

[Dhuks]

Hogwash. Thats a very unimpressive handwriting but lets get back to the topic. In your deductions you have not factored in the fuel stops one of them being the Nanyuki air base which is close to mt Kenya where the choppers landed last for refuelling.
Also minor factors like four combat planes passing areas that are not used to seeing them in their skies would probably play into the enemies advantage bearing that it was already in the news that Ugandan choppers were headed to Somalia.

 

[Bantugbro]

Hogwash. Thats a very unimpressive handwriting but lets get back to the topic. In your deductions you have not factored in the fuel stops one of them being the Nanyuki air base which is close to mt Kenya where the choppers landed last for refuelling.
Also minor factors like four combat planes passing areas that are not used to seeing them in their skies would probably play into the enemies advantage bearing that it was already in the news that Ugandan choppers were headed to Somalia.

Stop whining about my handwriting...lets discuss this mathematically...:hat:

FYI the coordinates of Nanyuki AB are 0 01N lat and 37 04E long (these are in DMS). That is, the distance from Nanyuki AB to Mount Kenya is about 32 Kilometers. The bearing/course angle from the Air base to the direction of mount Kenya is 60 degrees.....Sure, the three pilots must have been in 'sleeping pills' to find themselves in the mountain top....:hat:

 

[Ndahani]

Aha, nimesoma somewhere kwamba kumbe CREWS walikuwa-instructed to fly in total RADIO silency!!! Nafikili hili lilikuwa na tactical error kwa upande wao, wanawezaje kuruka kwa kupitia route yenye terrain ambayo hawako familiar nayo, huku waki-maintain RADIO silency hii ina maana wasingeweza kuwasiliana na the nearest Control Tower for HELP, au kupewa UPDATES kuhusu hali ya HEWA!! Wanasema plan za kufanikisha safari hii ziliandaliwa kwa muda wa miezi mitatu - sasa mahandalizi yalishindwaje kuwa na contigency plan just in case.

Oh yes, Kabaridi umenikumbusha kitu kinacho hitwa VENTURI effect. Jinsi nilivyo ona kwenye TV hali ya hewa ilikuwa mbaya sana, kulionikana kuna mist, mvua, baridi, upepo na altitude kama hile ya Mt. Kenya huwezi kokosa barafu - hatari katika urushaji wa Helicopter unatokea wakati main rotor inapo accumulate ice inasababisha madhala mawili-la kwanza ni kuongeza drag kwenye rotor blade, cha pili ambacho ni hatari zaidi ni kupungua kwa lift kutokana na mabadiliko katika aerodyanamic characteristics za main rotor yenyewe baada ya kuzungukwa na barafu, kumbuka main rotor ya chopper ina kazi mbili (i) Propeller (ii) Bawa i.e Wing, inaelezwa kabisa kwamba usihatarishe maisha yako kwa kurusha chopper/ndege kwenye icing conditions.

La mwisho, kumbe Gunship aina ya MI-24 zimekuwa design kuruka umbali wa mita 4500 kutoka usawa wa bahari(above sea level), wakati urefu wa Mt. Kenya ni mita 5199!! Swali ni je, marubani hili hawakulijuwa? Hapa tumelezwa kwamba chopper ya nne aina ya MI-17 ambayo ni ya kubeba troops iliweza ku-clear Mlima huo na kwenda kutua Somalia bila matatizo! Ukiangalia takwimu unakuta kumbe Chopper ya aina ya MI-17 ceiling ya urukaji wake juu ya usawa wa bahari ni mita 6000 yaani urukaji wake unahizidi MI-24 kwa mita karibu 1500, je katika urusha wa ndege hizo zenye specs tofauti marubani walishindwa kulizingatia hilo. Hapa natoa maoni yangu tu siyo kwamba nalahumu mtu au kikundi chochote.

Mkuu analysis yako imekaa kwa hoja zaidi kuliko emotions...thanks maana sio wote tumesomea aerodynamics engineering. Mambo mengine tunayajua kwa juu juu tu.

 

[Ndahani]

Stop whining about my handwriting...lets discuss this mathematically...:hat:

FYI the coordinates of Nanyuki AB are 0 01N lat and 37 04E long (these are in DMS). That is, the distance from Nanyuki AB to Mount Kenya is about 32 Kilometers. The bearing/course angle from the Air base to the direction of mount Kenya is 60 degrees.....Sure, the three pilots must have been in 'sleeping pills' to find themselves in the mountain top....:hat:

I see the reason to go back and understand this whole issue of flying objects...ni shule ambayo ntaisoma kwa hobbie

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Stop whining about my handwriting...lets discuss this mathematically...:hat:

FYI the coordinates of Nanyuki AB are 0 01N lat and 37 04E long (these are in DMS). That is, the distance from Nanyuki AB to Mount Kenya is about 32 Kilometers. The bearing/course angle from the Air base to the direction of mount Kenya is 60 degrees.....Sure, the three pilots must have been in 'sleeping pills' to find themselves in the mountain top....:hat:

Thanks mkuu, bearing in mind that the three choppers were fully laden with fuel at the material time (baada ya kujaza katika base ya Nanyuki) and Mt.Kenya is almost a stone throw from Nanyuki Airbase in nautical miles, but off course almost 60+ degrees in their intended flight path to Wajir Base.

Whoever refueled choppers should have known that the rate of climb of a fully laden choppers were unquestionably slow hence attaining a safe cruising altitude would have taken time!! Having this in mind the Traffic controller/KDF were supposed to advise UPDF crew accordingly i.e to change course and fly straight on to Wajir Airbase instead of letting them to meander aimlessly in the middle of nowhere (Mt.Kenya).

Kwani kazi ya ma-controller ni nini?? and 'am sure Nanyuki kuna RADAR ya kijeshi ambayo scanning/detecting RADIUS ina-cover beyond Mt.Kenya. Kwani hizo RADA za kijeshi za Kenya si zinaona altitude za ndege, bearing na spidi, wanaona kabisa hata ndege zikitaka kugongana au kugonga milima, kwa nini hawakuwapa tahadhali ma-CREW, kila chopper ilikuwa na CREW wawili yaani pilot na Co-pilot, nimeona mtu humu anasema eti jeshi la Uganda na la Kenya wako in good books, kama ni hivyo kwa nini wanawa-mislead wenzao 60 degrees off course, is this normal!! Yaani waende kupalamia milima, hii sio fresh hata kidogo.

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Mkuu analysis yako imekaa kwa hoja zaidi kuliko emotions...thanks maana sio wote tumesomea aerodynamics engineering. Mambo mengine tunayajua kwa juu juu tu.

Nakubaliana na wewe mkuu, lakini unajuwa ukitaka kujenga hoja unahanzia mbali, sio kwamba siko emotionally attached na ajali hii ya kusikitisha; imeniuma sana. Ukikumbuka ajali ya Princess Diana ilivyo tokea ndio utanielewa.

 

[Ndahani]

Kwahiyo nani anashikwa uchawi kwa kuangusha hizo helicopter tatu?

 

[Bantugbro]

Kwahiyo nani anashikwa uchawi kwa kuangusha hizo helicopter tatu?

Mchawi keshajulikana....:hat:

 

[Bantugbro]

Thanks mkuu, bearing in mind that the three choppers were fully laden with fuel at the material time (baada ya kujaza katika base ya Nanyuki) and Mt.Kenya is almost a stone throw from Nanyuki Airbase in nautical miles, but off course almost 60+ degrees in their intended flight path to Wajir Base.

Whoever refueled choppers should have known that the rate of climb of a fully laden choppers were unquestionably slow hence attaining a safe cruising altitude would have taken time!! Having this in mind the Traffic controller/KDF were supposed to advise UPDF crew accordingly i.e to change course and fly straight on to Wajir Airbase instead of letting them to meander aimlessly in the middle of nowhere (Mt.Kenya).

Kwani kazi ya ma-controller ni nini?? and 'am sure Nanyuki kuna RADAR ya kijeshi ambayo scanning/detecting RADIUS ina-cover beyond Mt.Kenya. Kwani hizo RADA za kijeshi za Kenya si zinaona altitude za ndege, bearing na spidi, wanaona kabisa hata ndege zikitaka kugongana au kugonga milima, kwa nini hawakuwapa tahadhali ma-CREW, kila chopper ilikuwa na CREW wawili yaani pilot na Co-pilot, nimeona mtu humu anasema eti jeshi la Uganda na la Kenya wako in good books, kama ni hivyo kwa nini wanawa-mislead wenzao 60 degrees off course, is this normal!! Yaani waende kupalamia milima, hii sio fresh hata kidogo.

Mkuu,
Kama ni kweli walipitia pale Nanyuki AB kuweka wese...basi ni dhahiri kabisa walikuwa one third of a Latitude away from the peak of Mt. Kenya (kumbuka one latitute in kama 112 Km na pale ni kama 32 km hivi.). Hivyo basi hata bearing ya flight path yao kwenda Wajir AB ilikuwa inakaribiana na bearing ya kuelekea Mt. Kenya tofauti ni kwenye Minutes na Seconds.

Tunaelewa kuwa waliojenga Nanyuki AB mahali ambako ni karibu sana na Mlima Kenya sio wapumbavu!! ndio maana tangu hiyo AB ijengwe hakujawahi tokea ndege tatu kwa pamoja kwenda kuparamia Mlima Kenya. Haya yote yanaendana kama ulivyosema hapo juu kuwa AB yeyote kitu cha kwanza ni lazima iwe na Radars (air control)....:hat:

Tunarudi kule kule :
It is impossible for the choppers to fly more than halfway to Wajir AB if they didn't have functioning communication systems to guide them along the flight path. So this is ruled out.

Remaining open questions:
1: Radars za Nanyuki AB zilikuwa hazifanyi kazi.
2: Waongozaji ndege wa Nanyuki AB hawaku-bother ku- assist their departing guests.
3: A serious party took place last night everyone was on hangover.
4: All of the above are true....:hat:

 

[Ndahani]

Mchawi keshajulikana....:hat:

Teh teh teh...Ndo maana Museveni amekaaa kimya anatafakari kama hajui nini kinaendelea. Kuna watu itakuwa ngumu sana kuaminiwa in EAC

 

[Ndahani]

Mkuu,
Kama ni kweli walipitia pale Nanyuki AB kuweka wese...basi ni dhahiri kabisa walikuwa one third of a Latitude away from the peak of Mt. Kenya (kumbuka one latitute in kama 112 Km na pale ni kama 32 km hivi.). Hivyo basi hata bearing ya flight path yao kwenda Wajir AB ilikuwa inakaribiana na bearing ya kuelekea Mt. Kenya tofauti ni kwenye Minutes na Seconds.

Tunaelewa kuwa waliojenga Nanyuki AB mahali ambako ni karibu sana na Mlima Kenya sio wapumbavu!! ndio maana tangu hiyo AB ijengwe hakujawahi tokea ndege tatu kwa pamoja kwenda kuparamia Mlima Kenya. Haya yote yanaendana kama ulivyosema hapo juu kuwa AB yeyote kitu cha kwanza ni lazima iwe na Radars (air control)....:hat:

Tunarudi kule kule :
It is impossible for the choppers to fly more than halfway to Wajir AB if they didn't have functioning communication systems to guide them along the flight path. So this is ruled out.

Remaining open questions:
1: Radars za Nanyuki AB zilikuwa hazifanyi kazi.
2: Waongozaji ndege wa Nanyuki AB hawaku-bother ku- assist their departing guests.
3: A serious party took place last night everyone was on hangover.
4: All of the above are true....:hat:

Kumbe yamekuwa hayo?

 

[Dhuks]

Teh teh teh...Ndo maana Museveni amekaaa kimya anatafakari kama hajui nini kinaendelea. Kuna watu itakuwa ngumu sana kuaminiwa in EAC

I could see where this was headed, thanks for letting us know.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

I could see where this was headed, thanks for letting us know.

Dhuks,

whichever way you slice it, this thing is not looking good for KE. Bantugbro has posted the following hypotheses,

1: Radars za Nanyuki AB zilikuwa hazifanyi kazi.
2: Waongozaji ndege wa Nanyuki AB hawaku-bother ku- assist their departing guests.
3: A serious party took place last night everyone was on hangover.
4: All of the above are true....

These are very valid questions that beg for answers, otherwise M7 will forever remain
suspicious and guarded. Somebody slept on the job on the Kenyan side and their is no
doubt about that. Its only fair that folks come out and say what happened on that fateful
day.

Ab-Titchaz.

 

[Nairoberry]

For your EYES only::hat:

you are wasting your time posting poorly crafted pictures and mathematics that have no relation to this. just cut the long story shot and just say what you think happened or as usual you are afraid

 

[Dhuks]

http://www.the-star.co.ke/classicnews/90121-pilot-error-caused-ugandan-choppers-to-crash-