Uraia wa nchi mbili: Maendelo na Matokeo yake!

Membe anatafuta popularity ya kugombea uraisi 2015!!!

hana jipya kwani pamoja na kufanya kazi za diplomatic mission kwa muda mrefu na elimu ya JHU bado upeo wake ni wa kutiliwa shaka sanaa...

amekuwaa mwepesi sana wa hoja na inaumaa eti ndo wazir wa mambo ya nje wa nchi yenye strong foreign policy africa...lol!!!
 
This issue is starting to become more sensitive and controversial as days go by. What bothers me about this debate is that almost all the people who support it are Tanzanians from the diaspora and almost all who are against it are those who are based back home. This makes it hard for me to believe if people take sides in this matter after thoroughly investigating the pros and cons or simply base their decision on which side of the world they are in.

Well what is disappointing is that after reading a few posts in this thread it seems that those who want dual citizenship is because they feel it will benefit a few individuals. I haven't seen any talk of how it will benefit the nation. Once matters concerning national interests are based on benefiting just a few people that is when I stop to listen. One example here is given that a Tanzanian was not given a job in the Federal Reserve because of his nationality. So was the obstacle him not being a US citizen or him not having dual citizenship? To me it seems if he has lived there many years as the poster claims then he could have filed for US citizenry.

When I read or listen about debate I want to hear how this will benefit us as a nation not how it will only benefit Tanzanians in the diaspora. If I was a leader involved in this decision making that is what I will look at. Hasn't looking at few individuals already cost as enough?

I have heard some sound argument for dual citizenship (not from this thread so far however) on how it may benefit Tanzania. One argument I heard is bringing in to Tanzania foreign currency. Now does a person need to have dual citizenship to bring in foreign currency to the country? Even tourists who come to visit are a source of foreign currency, are they Tanzanians?

Another argument I heard is promoting Tanzania. Again do you really need dual citizenship to promote your home country? If you haven't promoted your country when you were a Tanzanian in a foreign country how are you going to promote Tanzania as a Tanzanian/X country? I hear about bringing investments to Tanzania. Do you really need dual citizenship to bring foreign investments to Tanzania.

So there you go my fellow Tanzanians. I am so far not in support of dual citizenship because so far it seems like its an attempt for the few to benefit while not explaining how it will benefit Tanzania as a whole. When arguments are given of how it will benefit Tanzania I do not see how all those things can not be done right now without dual citizenship. I'm not against the idea if I see it's benefit to Tanzania as a whole (not because one Tanzanian could not get one position at a very limited post). So I challenge those who are for dual citizenship to come with sound reasons of how it benefits the nation as a whole so we can debate and discuss.
 
Masanilo said:
I consider myself as a citizen of the world!
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The entire concept ya nationality, ambapo Mmasai wa Arusha inabidi awe na passport kumtembelea jirani yake wa Kenya kusini, na mmakonde wa Nachingwea inabidi awe na passport ya kumtembelea jirani yake wa Msumbiji kaskazini, na Mtiliga wa Denmark inabidi aje na visa kuwatembelea ndugu zake, linanuka medieval cabals na burghs za "Peace of Westphalia" ya 1648 kuliko the modern world.

Naamini pole pole concept nzima ya utaifa itakufa a natural death, na tutakuja kuuangalia utaifa kama vile leo tunavyoangalia biashara ya utumwa. Hata watu waliokuwa wanafanya biashara ya utumwa enzi zao hawakuona ubaya wa biashara hiyo kwa sababu ilikuwa so deeply entrenched in the Zeitgeist, lakini baadaye tukija kuangalia walivyoishi tunashindwa kuamini ilikuwaje binadamu na akili zao wakaishi vile.

Vivyo hivyo, vizazi vyetu vijavyo vitashangaa sana, kuona hawa watu walifanywa watumwa, wakapitia ukoloni, wakaja kwenye ukoloni mamboleo, wakaenda kwenye utaifa na kuwekwa chini ya minyororo ya sentimentalism na wakoloni weusi ndugu zao.

Nipe aspects za utaifa zinazomake sense bila ya kuwa na restrictions zake za kipumbavu..It's not nuclear physics.
 
Masanilo said:
I consider myself as a citizen of the world!
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I support your opinion Mkuu. Why should we limit ourselves to Tanzania while there are so many opportunities with excellent remuneration in other countries provided that you have good qualifications? Hayo mawazo yalikuwa ya mwaka 47 Watanzania wapewe uhuru wa kuishi popote pale duniani na kama wanaona kuchukua uraia katika nchi hizo kutawafungulia milango zaidi basi wasiogope kufanya hivyo kwa kuogopa kupoteza Utanzania wao. Wengi wana roho za korosho "ntima nyongo" na watafanya kila hila kulizuia hili. Nina wasiwasi kama litapitishwa lakini Watanzania wa leo si wale wa mwaka 47.
 

Jibu maswali, mbona unaepa epa tu?

My equanimity shun both praise and blame kwa hiyo sijui unatoa wapi ki concept kwamba natafuta thanks. Mimi nina ngozi ya mamba kwa criticism na pongezi naziangalia kama Marcus Aurelius.Usifikiri kwa sababu wewe unapenda sifa kwa kujifanya anti-pope hapa basi kila mtu anataka upuuzi kama wako.

Criticism ndiyo engine ya JF, lakini kama nilivyowaambia waliom criticize Kikwete over non issues juzi hapa, there is such a thing as overdoing it.

Wewe unayejifanya unaielewa Federal Reserve tuambie basi process zao zikoje na wapi kuna conflict na hiyo naccount hapo juu.

Limbukeni mkubwa we.
 
Kiranga said:
Dual Citizenship bongo inavyolostisha watu.
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Kama nimekulewa vizuri, dude alikuwa na Green Card and was on his way to qualifying for US Citizenship wakati ana-apply hiyo kazi. Kwa hiyo its safe to suppose kama mtu huyu akifanikiwa kupata Uraia wa Marekani, basi Uraia wa Tanzania angeukana mara moja. Sasa sielewi issue ya "dual citizenship" inahusiana vipi na predicament ya huyu mjamaa?
 

Assumption yako ya kwamba "angefanikiwa kupata uraia wa Marekani, uraia wa Tanzania angeukana mara moja" unaitoa wapi?

Marekani ina dual citizenship, na haimshurutishi mtu anayepata naturalization na passport ya Marekani kuukana uraia wake wa kuzaliwa/ aliokuwa nao kabla.Kwa hiyo sielewi unatoa wapi hii assumption ya kwamba huyu bwana angeupata uraia wa Marekani angeukana uraia wa Tanzania mara moja.

Kwanza kabisa, the only reason haja apply uraia wa Marekani (yuko eligible ku apply for the last 3 years) ni kwa sababu anajua Tanzania hairuhusu dual citizenship, na hataki kuuwekea uraia wake wa Tanzania matatizo. Sasa utasemaje mtu kama huyo ana mpango wa kuukana uraia wa Tanzania?

Dude yuko eligible ku apply US Citizenship for the past 3 years, ila tu jamaa mserikali anasema anagoja dual citizenship ihalalishwe bongo, na hataki kuchukua uraia wa Marekani kabla dual citizenship haijahalalishwa bongo kwa sababu anataka kufuata sheria za Tanzania na hataki ku jeopardize uraia wake wa Tanzania.Kwa hiyo ingawa alitaka kuwa na uraia wa Marekani, na alikuwa eligible ku apply tangu miaka mitatu iliyopita, lakini kwa sababu technically Tanzania hairuhusu dual citizenship hakutaka ku create matatizo, alitaka kusubiri mpaka Tanzania iruhusu rasmi then ange apply uraia Marekani.

In the process ya kuwa mzalendo na kufuata sheria, kucheleweshwa kwa dual citizenship Tanzania kumem-cost kazi MAREKANI.

Si kila mtu yuko radhi kuvunja sheria za uraia za Tanzania ili apate uraia wa nje, lakini hii haiondoi ukweli kwamba Tanzania kusuasua na kuchukua muda mrefu kupitisha dual citizenship kuna wa cost watanzania walio nje.
 
Kwa mtu wa kawaida, ingekuwa no-brainer kuchagua kati ya Uraia wa Marekani na ule wa Tanzania when stakes are so high. But again, why did he bother to apply at all if he knew he wouldn't be able to fulfill citizenship requirements and/or security clearance? Bora afanye kazi Wal-mart hadi pale sheria ya "dual citizenship" itakapopitishwa Tanzania.
 
Kiranga said:
...kila mtu anataka upuuzi kama wako...Limbukeni mkubwa we...... wewe unapenda sifa ...unayejifanya unaielewa Federal Reserve tuambie basi process zao zikoje.
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Ha hahahaa aahahaaaa...aaaaaa..

Naona unakubali kiani ulipoteleza. Hakuna cha kufundishana kuhusu utaratibu wa kwanza wa kufanya kazi Federal Reserve, lazima uwe raia wao, mwisho wa hadithi. Lakini wewe ukaendeleza hadithi na maelezo yako yakaonekana yamepelea halisia kuliko tamthilia. "Dump blondes" wamekosea kuchambua makaratasi ya huyu Mtanzania, si wewe liyechemsha:
Unabisha kwamba dumb blondes hawawezi kumess up the original declaration of requirements?
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Hahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaa....

"Dumb blondes" ndio unawatupia mpira wa mchemko. Hawajaandika chochote hapa... hahahaaaaa

Ungeweza kujenga hoja ya madhara ya wigo mwembamba wa fursa za kazi ng'ambo bila uraia, bila kuleta ubunifu wa tamthilia. Ukitaka kutushawishi faida za sera ya uraia huria kwa kutumia mifano ya yanayowakuta huko ng'ambo basi tueleze halisia za huko, si utenzi.

Unasema hupendi kutukuzwa? Wewe unaeamini kwamba anaekupinga wewe ni mpinga-Papa? Kwamba hapa wewe ndio baba papa wetu hapa, kutofautiana na wewe ni kutafuta umaarufu wa mpinga-papa. Mnyenyekevu hawezi kujikuta katamka hivyo kamwe. Ukadai una "equanimity," kituko! "Equanimity" ni hali ya utulivu wa hulka na kichwa. Wewe ukijikuta kwenye kona kidogo unanambia "usiniletee ushuzi...nyamaza hujui kitu." Hizo hulka zinaonyesha chochote bali "equanimity." Chagua maneno.

Umechemsha kuleta tamthiliya ya Mtanzania ambae eti alipata "bonge la pande" Federal Reserve halafu wakaanza kujadiliana nae na kubembelezana nae kwamba hana uraia. Eti "dumb blondes" walikosea. Halafu unasema mimi ndio nimeleta hoja "ushuzi." Hahahahaahahaa...
 
Hawa "dumb blondes" au "dump blondes" ndiyo viumbe gani tena? Nao watakuwa wanaishi bonde la mpunga Mbarali pamoja na Waburushi, au?
 
Coach Parcells said:
Hawa "dumb blondes" au "dump blondes" ndiyo viumbe gani tena? ...
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Ni nadharia ya kinyanyapaa ya mfumo dume wa Kimarekani, ambayo Kiranga kaidaka nzima nzima, inayosema wanawake wa kizungu wenye nywele za kijivu hawana kitu vichwani. Ni warembo hapana shaka, na mara nyingine hutumia kuvutia kwao kupata fursa anuwai. Mfumo dume uliosheheni ufinyu wa umudu wa sayansi. Hakuna binadamu ambae akili yake inaendana na maumbile yake ya nje. Huwezi kuagua na kutabiri kwamba mtu wa kijani au mwenye nywele ndefu atakuwa mpumbavu.

Kiranga anasema ni makarani wa kizungu wenye nywele za kijivu, yani kiasili wajinga, ndio walimpokea Mtanzania ambae ombi lake la kazi halikustahili hata kufikiriwa kufanya kazi Federal Resereve, sio raia wao.

Kwa maneno mengine, haikuwa kosa kusaili hadithi yake, ilikuwakuwaje waajiri wa Federal Reserve wafike hatua ya kupendezwa na wasifu na kumsikiliza akiwambeleza kwamba ana makazi ya kudumu wamfikirie? Kituko.

Ukishasema wewe sio raia wao, makaratasi yako yanatupwa kapuni, hawana muda kusoma wasifu, wana maombi lukuki ya raia. Ukijaza maombi Kwenye tarakishi ndio mbaya zaidi, ukishabonyeza kiboksi cha "sio raia" tovuti haliendelei mbele linakutupa nje.

Ukitumia mifano ya shida zilizowakuta ng'ambo kwa kutokuwa raia usilete tamthilia za kubuni.
 

Duh babu mbona leo unawaka hivyo? Wametonesha kidonda nini?
 
Hata mimi na wasiwasi na ukweli wa hiyo stori ya "Master of Mental JiuJitsu". Itakuwaje mtu mwenye wasifu (elimu, uzoefu wa kazi) na hadhi inayostahili kukubaliwa kazi taasisi nyeti kama Federal Reserve, ashindwe kung'amua most basic requirement ya Uraia wa Marekani kwa maombi ya kazi husika, halafu baadaye aje kuikosa ile kazi kwa sababu ya kutokuwa na huo Uraia wa Marekani?

Halafu siyo hiyo tu, kulingana na Kiranga, huyo mjamaa angeweza kuwa raia wa Marekani zamani lakini hataki kwa hiyari yake. Sasa inakuwaje atume maombi kwenye kazi ambayo imeweka wazi lazima uwe raia wa Marekani?

Hivi kweli inawezekana, kwa Marekani yote hii iliyojaa mamilioni ya raia ambao ni over-qualified kwenye kila aina ya kazi, aitwe mtu asiye raia kwenye interview Federal Reserve? Au pengine huyo mjamaa aliomba kazi ya utarishi/janitor? At any rate, Kingara atoe ushahidi ku-back-up hii stori yake.
 

Get your colors right first, then you may have something to discuss with me.Toka lini blonde ikawa kijivu?
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
Duh babu mbona leo unawaka hivyo? Wametonesha kidonda nini?
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Kuna mafarisayo na makuhani wa criticism wanaharibu maana nzima ya criticism kwa kudakia vitu wasivyovijua wala kuweza kuvielezea.

Wachamba kwa mabua toka lini wakajua ku flush?
 

Sasa nyinyi mtamfanya jamaa aende off topic na mabombastiki yake...
Lakini kweli hai make sense kiaina...mtu mwenye sifa kama za huyo jamaa angejua tokea mwanzo kuwa hatimizi hiyo sifa ya uraia na hakuna haja ya kutuma maombi ya hiyo kazi.....
 

Fanya mazoezi ya comprehension tena.

Nimeeleza hapo ni jinsi gani kazi fulani za Federal Reserve zinavyohitaji high security clearance.Nimeeleza ni jinsi gani dumb blondes wa employment agencies walivyo bungle the requirements kwa kutomwambia jamaa kwamba kazi inataka US Citizen, wao washazoea Green Card inakuwa poa for most jobs, that was not the case in this case.Nimeeleza ni jinsi gani mshkaji alivyokuwa encouraged kwamba ana requirements zote, only kuja kuambiwa kwamba ana qualifications zote kasoro uraia wa US.

Sasa usichoamini ni nini? Kwamba Federal Reserve wanataka kuwa na high security clearance kwa kazi fulani? That is only logical, and it can be verified. Kwamba Feederal Reserve wana outsource hiring process kwa employment agencies? Kwamba kuna dumb blondes ambao hawawezi ku chew gum and walk katika hizi agencies ambao wanaweza ku miscommunicate requirements? Kwamba kuna watanzania wanao qualify kwa hizi kazi?

Umenichekesha sana uliposema mtu akipata uraia wa Marekani anaukana uraia wa Tanzania siku hiyo hiyo, ndiyo kilichopo mawazoni mwako nini? Kuna watu wako eligible kuwa raia Marekani lakini wanasubiri vitu viende kiserikali na wawe na uraia kote, Marekani na Tanzania. Kama hamjui vitu vingine fanyeni uchunguzi kwanza si kujiaibisha, a little knowledge is dangerous indeed.
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
Sasa nyinyi mtamfanya jamaa aende off topic na mabombastiki yake...
Lakini kweli hai make sense kiaina...mtu mwenye sifa kama za huyo jamaa angejua tokea mwanzo kuwa hatimizi hiyo sifa ya uraia na hakuna haja ya kutuma maombi ya hiyo kazi.....
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My dude,

Tatizo ni outsourcing, watu wanaotafuta kazi hata hawaongei na HR Department ya muajiri directly initially, wanaongea na some person from an
Agency, someone that is constantly on two phones and has a quota of interviews to arrange per week.Worse still na huyu naye anatumwa tu na mameneja wake, kwa hiyo kama tunavyoambiwa na "Information theory" the integrity of information is directly proportional to the hops it has to pass.

Kwa sababu hapo kuna hops kibao, kuanzia Federal Reserve, kwenda kwenye employment agency kwa mameneja, kutoka kwa mameneja wa employment agency kwenda kwa recruiters walio under pressure ku "deliver the goods", by the time requirements zimefika chini huku, swala la uraia lika fell through the cracks, recruiter akatumia uzoefu tu kwamba kila siku wanapeleka watu Federal Reserve kufanya interview wakiwa na Green Crad tu, kumbe hii position ilikuwa ya juu na ilihitaji kuwa na security clearance ambaye non US Citizen hawezi kupata.

But why do I expect a numskull who thinks "blonde" is "kijivu" to know about Information Theory? Do I really expect him to understand?

All in all, regardless ya kama unaamini hii illustration au huamini, huwezi kubisha kwamba wabongo wanaotaka kufuata sheria na wenye qualifications za kufanya hizi kazi zinazotaka high security clearance wanakwamishwa vibaya kwa kukosekana kwa dual citizenship bongo.

Sasa kuna watu wanataka kuderail main discussion tha thread ambayo imejikita katika ukweli huu, wanataka kuleta alfu lela ulela na ubishi kama mshipa wa punda.
 

Unazidi kujionyesha unavyoongelea vitu usivyovijua kwa authority kubwa tu, eti kufanya kazi Federal Reserve lazima uwe raia.

Wrong,

Si lazima uwe raia ili uweze kufanya kazi Federal Reserve.

Halafu mtu akisema ana equanimity ni kitu tofauti kabisa na kusema hapendi sifa, unalikoroga, comprehesnion ndogo, kichwa panzi bia moja ushaanza kelele.
Tindikali hii haina nguvu, inahitaji kurudi lab.
 
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