Which SGR project is economically viable between Tanzania [emoji1241] SGR and Kenyan [emoji1139]

[REDEEMER.]

Baada ya Kuona modes of implementation kati ya Tanzania 🇹🇿 SGR and Kenyan 🇰🇪, unaona ni SGR ipi itaenda kulipa kati ya hizi mbili

Tuzingatie kigezo cha gharama za uendeshaji
Mfumo wa financing
Wateja wa mradi husika
Uimara wa project
Value for money
Modernity
Environmental analysis
Transparency

 

[Mkikuyu- Akili timamu]

FINANCING : kenya Loses out on this. 8% Loan,higher than market rate debt of even Eurobond, To make matters worse, the loan is dollar denominated, the loan was procured when exchange was 1$=80ksh Now the dollar is at 100. A clean 20% increase in both intrest and principal.
SGR CUSTOMERS: Customers win, the subsidy for uganda congo and rwanda cargo are enjoying extra ordinary cheap rates at the expense of kenyan taxpayers. No benefit for commuters except travel time being cut in half.
PROJECT STABILITY: Kenya loses out on this, running Costs are dependent on Global oil prices that rise and fall making cost planning difficult.Maitenance is high due to use of diesel engines.
VALUE FOR MONEY: No value at all. Project can only carry 8m tons of cargo per year equivalent to mombasa port transit cargo to outside kenya. SGR can only concentrate on the high revenue transit cargo and leave the low profit kenyan cargo to continue damaging roads.
MODERNITY: Fairly Morden, but not electric so its a 1970's tech
ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY: Fair, bridges in national parks, though being a fossil fuel burning rail,its not a green project.
TRANSPARENCY :Opaque, Feasibility study was done by the contractor who is also the financier. Mombasa port was used as security to secure the loans in total disregard to public participation and openess.

 

[Kafrican]

Transparency : Mwanzo anzeni kwa kutupostia feasibility studies za Tz SGR, mi sijawahi isoma... Tuanzie hapo

 

[MK254]

Mbona msisubiri muwe na SGR kwanza kabla ya kuuliza haya maswali, mbona huwa mnaishi maisha ya tabu na kutojiamini, kila siku mnadai kwamba ya kwenu ndio nafuu, leo mumeibuka na maswali ya kuuliza ipi nafuu. Hizo buku za Lumumba mnazitumia vibaya....

 

[Kafrican]

On modernity: Technically speaking Diesel locomotive was first, then followed by Electric locomotive in 1850's....

but Diesel-Electric locomotive technology came in much later in 1930's

 

[Mkikuyu- Akili timamu]

Tanzania is learning from the mistakes of kenya and has already avoided pitfalls like Lousy financing, Technology transfer mistakes etc. Should they continue diligently to learn from kenyan mistakes, Tz SGR will win all business in EAC

 

[Geza Ulole]

Transparency : Mwanzo anzeni kwa kutupostia feasibility studies za Tz SGR, mi sijawahi isoma... Tuanzie hapo

Google mbona ipo!

Pita huku New standard gauge railway from Dar es Salaam to Morogoro

 

[Kafrican]

Google mbona ipo!

Pita huku New standard gauge railway from Dar es Salaam to Morogoro

Thats not a feasibility study document. .. Its a link to Cowi that says they designed the tz sgr.... I want the actual report, it would idealy be like 300 pages covering everything about the sgr design... from enviromental impact, soil sample, noise disturbance, design concept, projected demand of cargo from shor term, medium term to long term, carrying capacity vs design capacity...etc Its only when you have all that info can we then begin to compare with Kenyas SGR

 

[Geza Ulole]

Thats not a feasibility study document. .. Its a link to Cowi that says they designed the tz sgr.... I want the actual report, it would idealy be like 300 pages covering everything about the sgr design... from enviromental impact, soil sample, noise disturbance, design concept, projected demand of cargo from shor term, medium term to long term, carrying capacity vs design capacity...etc Its only when you have all that info can we then begin to compare with Kenyas SGR

U don't find such reports online ur definition of transparency is screwed! U can But u can buy that document!

 

[MK254]

Thats not a feasibility study document. .. Its a link to Cowi that says they designed the tz sgr.... I want the actual report, it would idealy be like 300 pages covering everything about the sgr design... from enviromental impact, soil sample, noise disturbance, design concept, projected demand of cargo from shor term, medium term to long term, carrying capacity vs design capacity...etc Its only when you have all that info can we then begin to compare with Kenyas SGR

Do you think these guys have the capacity to comprehend such a detailed report, and even if it's available, can't be surprised to find it gathering dust in a shelf somewhere, where no one has managed to even read a paragraph.

 

[eliakeem]

Thats not a feasibility study document. .. Its a link to Cowi that says they designed the tz sgr.... I want the actual report, it would idealy be like 300 pages covering everything about the sgr design... from enviromental impact, soil sample, noise disturbance, design concept, projected demand of cargo from shor term, medium term to long term, carrying capacity vs design capacity...etc Its only when you have all that info can we then begin to compare with Kenyas SGR

Brother is a feasibility study public document to be obtained in public domain?

 

[eliakeem]

Do you think these guys have the capacity to comprehend such a detailed report, and even if it's available, can't be surprised to find it gathering dust in a shelf somewhere, where no one has managed to even read a paragraph.

Why no one could decipher it? Do you think it's in Mandarin like of yours??

 

[Kafrican]

U don't find such reports online ur definition of transparency is screwed! U can But u can buy that document!

Why the hell not? its a public infrustructural project funded 100% by the Tanzanian taxpayers... you have the right to demand to know exactly what such a huge project entails... Kenyas tender award was opaque but the consolation is the Environmental impact assessment report and detailed feasibility studies are a matter of public record for anyone to see...


How can you guys go around saying your project is transparent when no one in public has any factual details about the design specifications based on the feasibility studies exept for what politicians tell you?

 

[Kafrican]

Brother is a feasibility study public document to be obtained in public domain?

under the right to information....Yes.. you can even go to court to force the government to publish it ...maybe your laws dont work that way... There is no justification for govt to hold details of such a public peoject...
Even if they cant release the document, there is usually two feasibility study document, one is more technical and anotherone is created for public which is usually summarized to be understood by laymans...

 

[eliakeem]

under the right to information....Yes.. you can even go to court to force the government to publish it ...maybe your laws dont work that way... There is no justification for govt to hold details of such a public peoject...

No brother, the doc can NOT be exposed to the public domain. However, anyone can access it from THE relevant organization upon the request.

 

[REDEEMER.]

Thats not a feasibility study document. .. Its a link to Cowi that says they designed the tz sgr.... I want the actual report, it would idealy be like 300 pages covering everything about the sgr design... from enviromental impact, soil sample, noise disturbance, design concept, projected demand of cargo from shor term, medium term to long term, carrying capacity vs design capacity...etc Its only when you have all that info can we then begin to compare with Kenyas SGR

This is a "design and build project" the building starts at the completion of the design, I mean the feasibility study is done on the go.

 

[kirk git]

under the right to information....Yes.. you can even go to court to force the government to publish it ...maybe your laws dont work that way... There is no justification for govt to hold details of such a public peoject...
Even if they cant release the document, there is usually two feasibility study document, one is more technical and anotherone is created for public which is usually summarized to be understood by laymans...

Where is Kenya's full feasibility study?

You are here asking for TZ and Kenya has never released study for your sgr.

Bure kabisa.

 

[Kafrican]

Where is Kenya's full feasibility study?

You are here asking for TZ and Kenya has never released study for your sgr.

Bure kabisa.

this prooves how much you dont know about Kenyas SGR yet you here everyday talking about it..when you have never read the most important document that explains everything about the document. .. Na ya tz pia haujui ... Non of you are qualified to even speak on this thread

 

[Kafrican]

This is a "design and build project" the building starts at the completion of the design, I mean the feasibility study is done on the go.

hakuna kitu kama hio, Tz SGR feasibility study was done in 2012... that much I know... You think Yepi just woke up one day and decided $1.2B as the price withought studying the altitude difference between dar-moro in order to calculate gradient level that would support speeds of 160km/h, without studying population densities to know location of persenger stations along the route, without knowing the soils sample where the rail will pass, without knowing how many rivers or the topography of the region, withought studying cargo demand to know what would be the design capacity of the rail, without studying the capacity of Dar port and future expantion plans... even the so called 'design and build model" would have had to be studied to know if its 'feasible' in Tanzania..

Why would Tz hide such a document? there is nothing top secrete about such a project

 

[kirk git]

So this is how much you dont know about Kenyas SGR yet you here everyday talking about it..when you have never read the most important document that explains everything about the document. .. Na ya tz pia haujui ... Non of you are qualified to even speak on this thread

We have only seen a few pages leaked by ndii.

And then chinese have forced kenyan slaves to sign confidential agreement not to release any information on sgr 🙂