Why Did Nyerere Support Biafra?

Why Did Nyerere Support Biafra?

Jasusi,

..i read a little bit about Ogaden, and that s.hit[sorry for the lack of a better word] was no joke.

..the way the super powers switched alliances, and the Cubans coming in to rescues the Ethiopians.

..could you imagine how that would have been covered in this era of 24/7 news streaming?

..i think sometimes ppl expect too much from Mwalimu. yes, Mwalimu was very talented, but i dont think he was right and just in every thing he did.

..there r some things that were above his means and control. take an example of how Angola turned out. in my opinion, there was nothing in Mwalimu's and Tanzanias capacity that could have helped in reversing Angola's situation.

..kuna wakati mwingine principles inabidi ziwekwe kando and one is forced to deal with the lesser evil. chukulia mfano wa Samora na ule mkataba wa Inkhomati. hivi utamlaumu Samora kwa kusaini mkataba ule?

NB:

..tatizo ni kwamba vijana wadogo wanashindwa kusimamia kile wanachoakiamini hata ktk mambo marahisi kabisa halafu wanapiga chenga kwa ku-invoke jina la Mwalimu. can you imagine wangeishi enzi za Mwalimu ambapo stakes were much much higher wangekuwaje watu wa namna gani.
 
jokaKuu,
You are so right. Kuhusu Angola kuna wakati I used to see Savimbi in Dar. Mpaka ilipogundulika kuwa this guy was on CIA's payroll ndio Mwalimu akaanza kumtenga. Cold war politics played a great deal in our political evolution na ni kweli kama unavyosema some things were too much above Mwalimu's means and control. Kile alichokiweza alijitahidi sana, hasa katika ukombozi wa kusini mwa Afrika. Vijana msiache kusoma historia yetu na msiache kuwa focused on what is best for Tanzania and what is best for Africa.
 
Wakuu nimepitia post zote labda nikiri bila zengwe nimefaidika sana na hii thread.Bado naendelea kusoma michango mbali mbali ya wanajamvi wenye akili.
 
Jasusi said:
jokaKuu,
You are so right. Kuhusu Angola kuna wakati I used to see Savimbi in Dar. Mpaka ilipogundulika kuwa this guy was on CIA's payroll ndio Mwalimu akaanza kumtenga. Cold war politics played a great deal in our political evolution na ni kweli kama unavyosema some things were too much above Mwalimu's means and control. Kile alichokiweza alijitahidi sana, hasa katika ukombozi wa kusini mwa Afrika. Vijana msiache kusoma historia yetu na msiache kuwa focused on what is best for Tanzania and what is best for Africa.
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Jasusi,

..I think i read somewhere that Tanzania was supporting Savimbi and we only had to ditch him once he crossed the line and started dealing with makaburu.

..also I read that Savimbi was very smart. he was a PhD, fluent in about 5 languages, also had very strong oratorical skills.

..i think he just made a mistake, a big and dumb mistake, that would cost his political career.

..ukisoma kilichotokea Ogaden na Angola ndiyo utajua what political terrain watu kama Mwalimu where operating in.
 
Rugemeleza:

Rudia posti zangu. Sijasema waligombea mafuta tu. Lakini mafuta ilikuwa ni moja ya vitu vilivyopo kwenye Equation. Bei ya mafuta ilikuwa ndogo lakini hiyo pekee yake haikuwa sababu ya watu kutopigania potential ya mafuta.

Mafuta ya Nigeria yapo kwenye delta na kwenye bahari. Visima katika maeneo hayo vina gharama kubwa. Hivyo ukiona investors wanatumia mitaji yao, ujue kuna potential kubwa.

Mwanzoni uchumi mwa kusini ulitegemea mazao ya kilimo na Kazkazini walikuwa wana madini. Watu wa Kaskazini walikuwa hawataki muungano.

Ongezeko la mafuta kusini likaanza kuwafanya watu wa kaskazini kuupenda Muungano na wale wa kusini kutaka kujiondoa. Mfano huu ni typical ya fununu ya kuwepo kwa mafuta Zanzibar.

Kabla ya kupata uhuru, Balewa ambaye alikuwa kiongozi wa Kaskazini alisema kuwa Nigeria ilikuwa ni nchi ya kijiografia tu kwani kulikuwa na uhusiano mdogo kati ya kusini na kaskazini.

Na kama alivyofanya kwenye makoloni mengine, elimu ya Mwingereza bila ya kuwa na balance nzuri. Hivyo wakati nchi inapata uhuru, ilibidi watu wa kusini kushikiria nafasi za kazi maeneo ya kaskazini. Hii pekee yake iliongeza resentment.
 
One of the reasons Nyerere kuwa Saint Nyerere ni hili la kuutetea UKatoliki, Ojukwu alikuwa mkatoliki na Nyerere?
 
Jasusi said:
jokaKuu,
You are so right. Kuhusu Angola kuna wakati I used to see Savimbi in Dar. Mpaka ilipogundulika kuwa this guy was on CIA's payroll ndio Mwalimu akaanza kumtenga. Cold war politics played a great deal in our political evolution na ni kweli kama unavyosema some things were too much above Mwalimu's means and control. Kile alichokiweza alijitahidi sana, hasa katika ukombozi wa kusini mwa Afrika. Vijana msiache kusoma historia yetu na msiache kuwa focused on what is best for Tanzania and what is best for Africa.
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Jasusi:

Tunaweza kusema kuwa Nyerere kutokana na background yake hakuona sababu za kidini, kikabila na rangi kugawa watu. Lakini katika baadhi ya nchi za kiAfrika, dini, makabila na rangi zilikuwa na mgawanyo mkubwa.

Savimbi alikuwa ni mvimbundu ambao ni sehemu mkubwa ya Angola. Pamoja na hayo, jeshi lake ndilo lilokuwa na wapiganaji wazuri sana kuliko la wenzake.

Kwa upande mwingine MPLA iliundwa na elites wa mijini na ambao walikuwa wanatumia majina ya kireno kama majina ya ukoo. Siku Angola inapata uhuru, MPLA ilikuwa ina-control capita city na bila ya msaada kutoka Cuba Savimbi angechukua nchi.

Ungezeko la Soviet influence katika za kusini kulifanya hata viongozi wa nchi nyingine za kiAfrika kuwa na wasiwasi. Inasemekana hata Kaunda aliomba waMarekani kuingilia kati. Hivyo Savimbi alikuwa na support kutoka katika nchi za kiAfrika. Lakini support hii ilibadilika pale South Africa walipoingiza vikosi vya Angola hili kupambana na vikosi vya kutoka Cuba.
 
Dar Es Salaam said:
One of the reasons Nyerere kuwa Saint Nyerere ni hili la kuutetea UKatoliki, Ojukwu alikuwa mkatoliki na Nyerere?
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Kwani Nyerere kajiteua mwenyewe kuwa saint? Wakati mwingine tuunganishe dots pale panapotakiwa.
 
Waliomchaguwa kutaka awe Saint, kwa kigezo kipi zaidi ya kutumia madaraka yake kuupigania ukatoliki?
 
Dar Es Salaam said:
Waliomchaguwa kutaka awe Saint, kwa kigezo kipi zaidi ya kutumia madaraka yake kuupigania ukatoliki?
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Mkuu Nyerere bado hajakuwa Saint, na Mambo ya Saint ni ya Wakatoliki na wana Vigezo wanavyovijua, Hebu tupe Uthibitisho kuwa Nyerere aliupigania Ukatoliki, usiwe na Mambo ya Vijiwwe vya Kahawa

Ukimpinga Nyerere kwa sera Nyingine (UjamaVijiji vya Ujamaa nk), hapo tunaweza kuchukuana upepo, lakini hili la Dini unamuonea Bure
 
Wakuu zangu kusema kweli mimi mmeniacha nje kabisa ya mada hii. Kifupi sielewi maswali ya Zitto wala kianachojibwa.
Zitto kaandika haya:-
1. Who said that Nyerere was not predictable on matters of corruption and personal enrichment?
2. Who said that George Washington was Chameleonic to the american public?
3 Who said that Jesus was unpredictable on matters of faith?
4. Who said that Mohammed (SAW) was unpredictable on matters of faith?

Kisha akamalizia na kama vile ana quesiton dhana nzima :- Unpredictability? Ooooooh, unajilisha upepo baba! Your tru motives are in the OPEN!

- Nimechoka kuumiza kichwa..Zitto mkuu wangu njoo unipe darsa maana kujifunza ni bora zaidi ya kutafuta majibu ndani ya vitabu na kusurf hali sielewi kitu nachotafuta.
 
There's no doubt at all that Savimbi was also a classic psychopath, thus his "higher-than-normal IQ". However, it seems like the concept of "psychopath" and whatever (mostly negative) connotations it may carry, historically does not exist in African societies and cultures: which kind of explains why otherwise smart individuals people like yourself could be so ignorant as to fail to appreciate the connection between the psychopathology, leadership-style, and legacy of psychos of Savimbi's ilk.
 
Je, jamii ambayo inajikuta inatengwa, inanyanyaswa na kuonewa na jamii kubwa je inayo haki ya kutafuta ulinzi wake yenyewe na uhai wake? Je ina haki ya kutafuta mahali ambapo inaweza kuwa salama kwani ni mahali pake? Kwa mfano Albania na Macedonia, au tuangalie suala la Kosovo. Tena mfano mzuri ni Kosovo je wananchi wa Kosovo walikuwa na haki ya kutafuta mahali pao na kujitambua kama ni kwao na hata kujitangazia uhuru kwa sababu Serbia ilikuwa inawanyanyasa?

Biafra ilikuwa inahusiano gani na sehemu nyingine za Nigeria na ni kitu gani kilisababisha kina Ojukwu kutaka kujitenga na Nigeria?

Ukiondoa Tanzania nchi nyingine zilizoitambua Biafra ni pamoja na Gabon, Ivory Coast, Haiti, na Zambia. Je hizi nchi ziliitambua Biafra kwa sababu gani?

Tunaambiwa na historia kuwa mwaka 1966 Septemba WaIgbo 30,000 waliuawa huko Kaskazini mwa Nigeria na kusababisha mauaji ya malipizi vile vile sehemu nyingine za Nigeria. Matukio hayo yakaanza kusababisha wananchi wenye asili ya Biafra kuanza kurudi kwa wingi kwenye eneo lao la asili.

Hadi hivi tunavyozungumza bado ipo movement ya wananchi wa Biafra kuwa na nchi yao na kama Sudan Kusini watajitenga na Sudan kama inavyotarajiwa itawapa moyo wananchi wa Biafra kujitenga hata kwa kupiga kura ya maoni. Litakapoundwaa taifa la Biafra siku moja ndipo kwa mara nyingine tutaona kuwa Nyerere alikuwa mbele sana ya historia. Kila watu wana haki ya kuwa mahali pao ambapo watakuwa salama. Hii ni haki ya Wapalestina kama ilivyo kwa Waisraeli. Hata katika Tanzania yetu hii kama kuna kundi au kabila moja litaonekana kuonewa, kunyanyaswa na kutengwa na serikali kabila hilo litakuwa na haki ya kuishi kutaka kuwa salama katika eneo lao.

Na wakati mwingine nina hofu naweza kuhisi ni kabila gani linaonekana kuonewa na kuanza kutengwa na kulaumiwa kwa kila baya.
 
Tulioishi enzi za Mwalimu na kumuona akifanyakazi "live", akitoa hotuba nzito, akiongoza vikao vya TANU na baadaye CCM hauwezi kumweka kundi analotaka kutupeleka Zitto. Nilimshuhudia mara kadhaa akikabliana na Maaskofu, Masheikh na tusio na dini akiwaambia aina ya NCHI aliotaka tuijenge na nafasi DINI ndani ya Taifa hili.
Siku moja Zitto alisema role model wake kisiasa ni SAS. Kwa nini sio EM Sokoine au JS Walyoba?
 
Mjadala mzuri sana..ili nasisi mathematicians tuelewe vizuri, hivi mnamaanisha

Why did Nyerere support Biafra = why Zitto now supports Kikwete?

au?

Tueleweshane vizuri tafadhali
 
Why did Mwalimu support pan Africanism and at the same time Western Sahara and its POLISARIO?
 
WildCard said:
Tulioishi enzi za Mwalimu na kumuona akifanyakazi "live", akitoa hotuba nzito, akiongoza vikao vya TANU na baadaye CCM hauwezi kumweka kundi analotaka kutupeleka Zitto. Nilimshuhudia mara kadhaa akikabliana na Maaskofu, Masheikh na tusio na dini akiwaambia aina ya NCHI aliotaka tuijenge na nafasi DINI ndani ya Taifa hili.
Siku moja Zitto alisema role model wake kisiasa ni SAS. Kwa nini sio EM Sokoine au JS Walyoba?
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WildCard:

Wengi wenu mliomsikiliza mnafanya makosa ya kutokuwa objective. Kwanini mnashindwa kujenga opinions zenu ?
 
Zitto said:
why did nyerere support pan africanism and at the same time Biafra? Why did nyerere oppose south african capital and at the same time allow debeers into our diamond?
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Ndg yangu Zito Kabwe huyu Nyerere unayetaka kujua habari zake, alikuwa kiongozi wa tofauti wa Taifa la Tanzania. Uwezo wake na wasifu wake ni vigumu kuufikia kwa ulinganifu wa usasa. Hebu jiulize mbona huyu mwanaume pomoja na utajiri wa Tanzania hakuficha mali au kuwa na Maacaunt nje ya nchi yetu ya fedha za wizi? Hakupora utajiri wa Taifa letu kifisadi na kujilimbikizia mimali kama walivyo watawala wa sasa wenye majumba na mifedha kibao wameficha nje ya nchi. Familia yake unaijua iko Butiama ni watu wa kawaida tuu si mafisadi. Kwa heshima na taadhima hebu fikiria jinsi ya kuikwamua Tanzania yetu na umasikini wa kutupwa unaosababishwa na waporaji wa mali za taifa. Ulikuwa unakwenda vizuri nilianza kukuamini lakini unako elekea sasa siko jirudi uheshimike.
 
Hapa mada ilianzishwa katika jitihada za kuelezea misimamo ya ZK ambayo kuna Wana-JF wanaiona ni tata na tete. Ila kwa kuwa mada yenyewe inatugusa watu wengi ndio maana tupo ambao tumeamua tuchambue kwa undani masuala yenyewe badala ya kujifunga katika maswali yaliyoulizwa na Ndugu ZK. Kuhusu hili la Biafra hebu tumsikilize Soyinka ambaye alienda kuitembelea Biafra na kuishia kufungwa na Nigeria:

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Documentary Archive | Wole Soyinka Returns to Biafra
 
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