Zanzibar imams halt gay wedding!

[Koba]

Gays & lesbian wapo tangu enzi na enzi na ni party of our society na wengine ni marafiki zenu wa karibu na member wa familia zetu,kuwakataa au kuwanyima haki zao za msingi za kupendana na kuoana naona ni kuwaonea bure,hawa watu hawajachagua kuwa hivyo ni ndivyo walivyozaliwa na watakufa hivyo hivyo na huwezi kuwalazimisha wapende kwa namna nyingine,najua ni tough kwa watu wengi kuelewa na kuwakubali lakini at the end hope watapata haki zao,kama weusi tulikuwa considered half human for centuries na kunyimwa haki zote na kudharaulika naamini nao siku watakubalika tuu na kuwa kawaida...Europe wako mbele kwa hili na huwezi kuona wakinyanyaswa kwa namna yeyote na sasa America wameanza kukubalika kisheria kwenye baadhi ya States,Africa mtake msitake mtafuata tuu labda mkaishi mars!

 

[Rufiji]

Mkandara I couldn't agree with you more. I vehemently disagree with those who are trying to enforce their religion beliefs into others. This is preposterous; we are living in a secular society, where people are free to live their life as they see fit. This homophobic tendency, which is escalating in our country, should and must be condemned by all peace loving people. Whether you like it or not, gays have been and will continue to be part of our society.

 

[Petu Hapa]

Mkandara I couldn't agree with you more. I vehemently disagree with those who are trying to enforce their religion beliefs into others. This is preposterous; we are living in a secular society, where people are free to live their life as they see fit. This homophobic tendency, which is escalating in our country, should and must be condemned by all peace loving people. Whether you like it or not, gays have been and will continue to be part of our society.

First, before we put critic people and religion it is important to remember State laws does not recognize the rights of homosexual - for easy read browse www.asylumlaw.org/docs/sexualminori...nzania&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Second, i don't think people are homophobic all the time, sometime i realized people are ignorant and conservative. It could be a simple fear of the unknown, domination and confusion! Remember in tanzania culture marriage have never been for pleasure only rather for reproduction - re-visit marriage conception.

Third, we need to understand, the space where homosexual are denied is public space, and not private space. However, since most of the rights can be demanded, protected and secured in public space - then there will be process or a movement to expand a public space to redefine its sexual space, and this have not been easy

 

[BUSARA6]

Ndoa za magay na wasagaji hapo Zenj zipo kwa muda mrefu sasa, sema labda hao walishitukiwa tu! Ndoa nyingi ufanyika chini ya pazia la kusherehekea siku ya kuzaliwa, na kama umevamia pati/sherehe hiyo sio rahisi kujua kama kuna shughuli ya arusi ndani yake.

Zipo kumbi kadhaa za burudani hapo zenj zenye kuendesha shughuli hizo pale jamaa wanapotaka kutoka hadharani.

Balahau wanzidi nawe kutia chumvi!

 

[Kibunango]

Balahau wanzidi nawe kutia chumvi!

Hakuna chumvi hapo,kama unataka details sema tu na utapewa pasipo shaka yoyote.

 

[Mkandara]

Petu Hapa,
Mkuu wangu bado tunarudi kule kule..labda hukuisoma vizuri hii habari.
hakuna anayekataa sheria zinasema nini hivyo hakuna anayesema ndoa hiyo ikubaliwe na serikali au wapewa baraka za Dini (Islaam) isipokuwa hawa watu walitaka kuoana kivyao vyao.. Hatufahamu ndo hiyo ilitakiwa kufungwa wapi au kwa kutumia imani gani ya dini badala yake tunaambiwa masheikh walivamia na kuwapiga wahusika.

Hawa Masheikh wamechukua sheria mkononi kama ile kesi ya Mabucha Tandale Dar au vibaka Kariakoo. mtu unaweza kusema size yao kwa sababu tu ya imani zetu ktk dini au mila..Lakini basi mara nyingi haki yako wewe haiwezi kuwa haki ya kila mtu, nikiwa na maana kwamba hawa jamaa hawakwenda kuomba cheti cha ndoa ila walifanya kutoka ktk kabati na kuchagua partner ktk maswala yale..hivyo tafsiri yetu ya ndoa kuwa baina ya mwanaume na mwanamke kwa minajiri ya reproduction sii lazima iwe tafsifi yao.Na hai apply kwao, ktk mtazamo wa ashiki zao (choice). Trust me kila excuse wanayonipa mimi Wakristu kuhusiana na Nguruwe hainingii akilini kabisa kwa sababu naamini kuwa mnyama yule ni haramu kumla...

Miaka kama 100 iliyopita, nasikia hata Pombe ilikuwa haramu..na ikapigwa marufuku kila kona ya dunia lakini walevi waliendelea kuwepo na leo hii ni kinywaji cha kawaida kabisa..Lakini mimi sinywi wala sijajaribu wala kukurubia... Na hainiudhi kitu kabisa kwani sinywi mimi.. huu ndio mtazamo wangu.
Binafsi naamini kwamba maswala ya dini na hukumu zake tumwachie Mungu. Yeye sii mjinga kujenga Pepo na Jahanam..Sasa ikiwa sote tutaokoka nani atakwenda motoni? Itaonyesha Mungu pia hukosea ktk maandalizi yake..
Wewe na mimi tuupige vita Usenge kama tunavyopiga vita haramu zote na tuwafundishe watoto wetu haramu hizo kulingana na mafundisho lakini wakiasi na kuchagua haramu hizi zikawatoa katika dini, nadhani kazi yetu bado itakuwa kuwapa dawa yaani darsa zaidi na zaidi..Sidhani kama solution ni kuweka sheria kuwahukumu wote wanao asi dini..
Kitendo cha hawa jamaa kufunga ndoa kinawaondoa ktk Uislaam hivyo kuwaadhibu na kuwapiga makofi haiwezi kuondoa haramu ya kitendo chenyewe, Hadi kufikia hawa kufunga ndoa ina maana wameisha banduana mara kibao..Sasa uharamu ni ile sherehe ya kutoka kabatini au kitendo chenyewe!

 

[X-PASTER]

hivyo tafsiri yetu ya ndoa kuwa baina ya mwanaume na mwanamke kwa minajiri ya reproduction sii lazima iwe tafsifi yao.Na hai apply kwao, ktk mtazamo wa ashiki zao (choice). Trust me kila excuse wanayonipa mimi Wakristu kuhusiana na Nguruwe hainingii akilini kabisa kwa sababu naamini kuwa mnyama yule ni haramu kumla...

Miaka kama 100 iliyopita, nasikia hata Pombe ilikuwa haramu..na ikapigwa marufuku kila kona ya dunia lakini walevi waliendelea kuwepo na leo hii ni kinywaji cha kawaida kabisa..Lakini mimi sinywi wala sijajaribu wala kukurubia... Na hainiudhi kitu kabisa kwani sinywi mimi.. huu ndio mtazamo wangu.
Binafsi naamini kwamba maswala ya dini na hukumu zake tumwachie Mungu. Yeye sii mjinga kujenga Pepo na Jahanam..Sasa ikiwa sote tutaokoka nani atakwenda motoni? Itaonyesha Mungu pia hukosea ktk maandalizi yake..
Wewe na mimi tuupige vita Usenge kama tunavyopiga vita haramu zote na tuwafundishe watoto wetu haramu hizo kulingana na mafundisho lakini wakiasi na kuchagua haramu hizi zikawatoa katika dini, nadhani kazi yetu bado itakuwa kuwapa dawa yaani darsa zaidi na zaidi..Sidhani kama solution ni kuweka sheria kuwahukumu wote wanao asi dini..
Kitendo cha hawa jamaa kufunga ndoa kinawaondoa ktk Uislaam hivyo kuwaadhibu na kuwapiga makofi haiwezi kuondoa haramu ya kitendo chenyewe, Hadi kufikia hawa kufunga ndoa ina maana wameisha banduana mara kibao..Sasa uharamu ni ile sherehe ya kutoka kabatini au kitendo chenyewe!

Kwa mtazamo wako kaka itafikia kipindi mtatoa mapendekezo kuwa wezi, vibaka, mafisadi na aina zote za uchavu ulio kithiri, zivumiliwe tu na wahusika wafanyiwe counselling tu haina haja ya kuwa na mahakama wala Jela... zote ziondolewe maana machafu yamezidi ndani ya nchi kilicho baki kutafute uhalali wa kuyakubali kwenye jamii zetu.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Jamani tujenge tabia ya kupost thread kwenye forum husika. Naona sasa kuna wimbi la thread kwenye jukwaa la siasa ambazo hazi husiani kabisa na siasa.

 

[Mkandara]

Kwa mtazamo wako kaka itafikia kipindi mtatoa mapendekezo kuwa wezi, vibaka, mafisadi na aina zote za uchavu ulio kithiri, zivumiliwe tu na wahusika wafanyiwe counselling tu haina haja ya kuwa na mahakama wala Jela... zote ziondolewe maana machafu yamezidi ndani ya nchi kilicho baki kutafute uhalali wa kuyakubali kwenye jamii zetu.

Hapana mkuu wangu siwezi kutetea wezi, vibaka, mafisadi kwa sababu machafu yao sii choice ya wahusika wote, hawa ni criminals..
Kifupi maneno haya nayaweza semwa na Muislaam wa Iran au Mkristu wa Vatican kutaka dunia nzima tuwe kama wao wakaelewana sii sisi mkuu.. Wakati huo umepita, imani ya dini ni challenge alotupa Mungu na hakimu ni yeye tu...Kama nchi yetu ingekuwa ya kiislaam na inakataza asiyekuwa Muislaam kuishi au kuondoka dini hiyo ningekuwa nawe. mambo haya Saudia au vatican nitakubaliana na wewe lakini hii ni Tanzania kuna watu wa kila imani..

Na tusije fikiria dini ni mbili tu. Wako Wakristu wa dhehebu gani sijui toka Ningeria husali uchi wa mnyama wote mabibi na mabwana, wameingia hadi Tanzania wana makanisa yao na wanafanya ibada zao kama kawa, leo iweje Mashoga ambao wameukana Ukristu, Uislaam na mila zetu washindwe kufunga ndoa kivyao wakati tunafahamu fika kuwa wanabanduana..Hawataki cheti cha ndoa wala baraka zetu wao wanajuana kivyao iwe ndio shida kubwa kwetu..Hii sheria ya kuwapiga inatokana na kipi! hawafuati dini au swala la kuoana ni kubwa kuliko hayo wanayoyafanya!..

Mkuu wangu sipendi ndugu, rafiki mwanangu awe kundi hilo wala siombei isipokuwa ikitokea basi kivyake na asinihusishe mimi kwa lolote..Kumpiga kwa sababu ya ndoa wakati anabanduliwa mkuu wangu haiwezi kuwa ponya hata kidogo. Kama ni sheria inaanza na kitendo chenyewe..Mashoga wapo miaka nenda trrudi na kusema kweli sijawahi kusikia kesi ya mtu kusimama kizimbani kwa sababu ni shoga..Tunaposhindwa kumkunja samaki akingali mbichi matokeo yake ndio hayo..
Vitendo vya Ushoga kuzidi nchini ni dalili kubwa ya kuonyesha kwamba tumesha poteza mila na desturi zetu, wazazi tumeshindwa kulea watoto zetu na siku zote mzazi au kiongozi ni mkosa inapofikia uharibifu wa jamii husika. Kama kuna watu wanaotakiwa kubadilika ni sisi sio hao Mashoga aidha tuiweke sheria kuzuia kabisa ushoga na adhabu kali ziwekwe dhidi ya mtu yeyote anayehusika au tukubali yaishe, kila mtu ataingia kaburini na mzigo wake wa dhambi au thawabu lakini sisi tusiwe wanafiki kuipenda sana dini na wepesi kurusha magumi wakati tunalea mashoga ndani ya majumba yetu kwa siri na tunawaruhusu mashoga hao hao kuingia msikitini wakati wa ibada, huo uchungu unatoka wapi.

 

[Kinyambiss]

The fact of the matter is homosexuality has been noted even in animals and therefore can not be just people wanting to sin. I think it is a psycho-physical anomaly caused by hormone irregularity and other factors social factors. There has been suggestion by academics that there is a gene responsible for this as well. Therefore I cant imagine that they just decide to be gay, the way people decide to go and steal. That being the case, it cant be classed as a crime because there is no real 'mens rea'

Our seemingly religious society which seems to be fine with albino killings, witchcraft, FGM, marital rape, 15 year olds getting married to 60 yr old men, has NOOOO place for homosexuals..! So for now the law will stay as it is till we are all dead and there is a new generation which will see things slightly differently... that is if the world doesnt end on the 21st of dec 2012.

Mimi I don really approave of homosexuality because it fails to serve the purpose of our existance as we currently understand it, and that is to perpertuate our genes. So one of the 5 life processes, ie reproduction fails... the rest love, sijui nini, thats just ur brain tricking u into staying long enough with someone to raise children.. yes.. chemicals in ur brain. Infact, during orgasm, the brain releases chemicals that make someone feel more affectionate towards the other partner.. so its a trick. (i know u dont like this lakini ndio hivyo wanandugu)!

So hawa jamaa zetu msiwaonee sana lakini jamii imove taratibu and when the time is right the laws will change.. the dynamics of the law follow society, so that has to change first.

 

[Kilbark]

Lakini jamani mbona Mashoga wanaoana toka miaka?.. Namkumbuka sana Shoga mmoja Alex (Ally) aliolewa miaka ya 80 na mzungu huko Ulaya, wakirudi Bongo wakipeta mjini bila taabu...

Mimi nadhani pamoja na mila na dini zetu lakini haya maswala yapo sana tu na hatuwezi kuyazuia isipokuwa kkama yatatumika kwa bendera za imani hizo. Nikiwa na maana Muislaam akitaka kufunga ndoa kiislaam basi hairuhusiwi, Mkristu vile vile, akiwa mwanao mzee una haki ya kukaa ndoa hiyo na kumkana mwanao iwe kumpa radhi au kumfukuza lakini huwezi kuzuia jambo hili kwa sababu halina sheria ktk serikali yetu..sijui kama nakosea lakini ndio mtazamo wangu.

Mbali na yote haya, Mashoga na wasagaji hesabu yao leo hii ni kubwa kupindukia.. Uharamu wa dini au mila ni vitu vilivyokwisha pitwa na wakati kwa mtazamo wao. Kwa hiyo sisi tunaopinga haya tuyakane ktk jumuiya zetu za dini na mila lakini inapofikia swala la Utaifa wakuu zangu sidhani kama tunawafunza kitu hawa jamaa zetu...

Nitarudia tena msemo wangu wa awali, Mimi kama Muislaam siwezi kumzuia Mkritu kula nguruwe hata kidogo pamoja na kwamba ni haramu kwangu, wala sintakataa urafiki, ujirani, undugu na kadhali ati kwa sababu anakula nguruwe. Na wala sidhani kama ni makosa zaidi kwa Muislaam kula nguruwe kwani Uharamu hauna dini ya kuzaliwa isipokuwa ni matendo yako ndiyo yanakufanya uwe Muislaam..

Hivyo basi, kwa imani yanmgu iwe ya dini au Mila zangu nitakataa katakata kula nguruwe, nitakataa nguruwe kupikwa nyumbani kwangu lakini siwezi kabisa kumzuia mtu mwingine asile nguruwe naweza tu Kumkanya na kumwambia athari zake.. Uchaguzi ni wake..
Ukiweza kutafsiri undani wa hili toka nguruwe kwenda Kisanvu cha kopo basi bila shaka utakuwa umenipata vizuri!

Jaribu kuangalia maadili na uasilia wa binadamu. Kwa kusema hivyo utaona kabisa kwamba haya wanaojiita mashoga na wasagaji ni watu ambao hawafai kuwepo hata hapa duniani. Ushoga ni hali ya mtu kujikataa, kutojitambua na hali hii sidhani kama mtu anazaliwa nayo. Isipokuwa inatengenezwa na baadhi ya watu na kisaikolojia hali hii mtu anakuwa ameizoea. Sasa Mkuu unaposema hii ni kitu ya kawaida? Umeshamwona katika maisha yako mbwa shoga au ng'ombe au sungura? Kama hali hii mtu anazaliwa nayo mbona hakuna utafiti ulio dhahiri juu ya suala hili . Yaani mtu ananogewa kumwingilia mwenzake sehemu ya kutolea kinyesi na yule pia ananogewa hivyo hivyo. Hali hii ni ya kuchochewa na watu wanaoshabikia vitendo hivi. Ninachojua mimi ni kwamba binadamu anaweza kuwa na ulemavu ama udhaifu wa aina fulani mwilini mwake. Na sio shoga kwa kuzaliwa kama inavyodaiwa na wazungu. kamwe siungi mkono masuala ya ushoga na usagaji. Kwa kuukubali ushoga na usagaji nami nitakuwa naunga mkono mauaji katika jamii.

 

[Mkandara]

Kilbark,

Jaribu kuangalia maadili na uasilia wa binadamu. Kwa kusema hivyo utaona kabisa kwamba haya wanaojiita mashoga na wasagaji ni watu ambao hawafai kuwepo hata hapa duniani. Ushoga ni hali ya mtu kujikataa, kutojitambua na hali hii sidhani kama mtu anazaliwa nayo. Isipokuwa inatengenezwa na baadhi ya watu na kisaikolojia hali hii mtu anakuwa ameizoea. Sasa Mkuu unaposema hii ni kitu ya kawaida? Umeshamwona katika maisha yako mbwa shoga au ng'ombe au sungura? Kama hali hii mtu anazaliwa nayo mbona hakuna utafiti ulio dhahiri juu ya suala hili . Yaani mtu ananogewa kumwingilia mwenzake sehemu ya kutolea kinyesi na yule pia ananogewa hivyo hivyo. Hali hii ni ya kuchochewa na watu wanaoshabikia vitendo hivi. Ninachojua mimi ni kwamba binadamu anaweza kuwa na ulemavu ama udhaifu wa aina fulani mwilini mwake. Na sio shoga kwa kuzaliwa kama inavyodaiwa na wazungu. kamwe siungi mkono masuala ya ushoga na usagaji. Kwa kuukubali ushoga na usagaji nami nitakuwa naunga mkono mauaji katika jamii.

Mkuu nakuelewa sana isipokuwa wewe ndio unashindwa kutazama nje ya box. Sijasema Ushoga na Usagaji ni jambo la kawaida, hata kidogo...sikukubali lakini sina budi kuishi nao.. sii utamaduni wangu wala wa kwako wewe hivyo maadam tunakubali na kuwafuga ndani ya majumba yetu wenye makosa ni sisi wenyewe. Unajua kuna nchi kama Angola hawa jamaa walichukua lugha ya kireno kama lugha ya kufundishia miaka mingi tu leo hii karibu wananchi wake wote wamepoteza lugha zao za asili na bahati mbaya hawana lugha moja dominant kutokana na kuwepo makabila mengi.. Utamaduni huo wa lugha umekufa na hauna dawa..

Unaponiuliza kuhusu Ng'ombe na Sungura una maana gani?.. mbona hao ngombe hatuwaoni wakisali au kwenda kanisani,Je ina maana hata kuabudu Mungu ni makosa vile vile kwa sababu ni binadamu tu wanaofanya hivyo?
Na una uhakika gani kwamba hawa wanyama hawana mashoga kati yao..Nachosema mimi inatakiwa tuwe na sheria ambazo zinaweza kuwa applied ktk society yetu na maadam tumekubali mfumo wa Uraia ambao hauna dini wala rangi na watu wana kila culture, religion na kadhalika basi tukubali na mengi yanayokuja na hawa wageni...Kama tunataka sheria ifanye kazi ni lazima tuanze na mzizi wa machafu haya nayo ni kutokubali ushoga kabisana ijulikane Duniani Tanzania inmepiga marufuku mashoga na wasagaji kisha tuone kaa hiyo mikopo na misaada inaingia. Kwa nini tuwe wanafiki?.. mashoga wapo kila kona na wanaenda misikitini na makanisani, wengine wanasimamia hata sala...makosa yanatoka wapi watu hawa wakijitokeza na kufunga ndoa zao za kishoga!

 

[X-PASTER]

Kilbark,
Mkuu nakuelewa sana isipokuwa wewe ndio unashindwa kutazama nje ya box. Sijasema Ushoga na Usagaji ni jambo la kawaida, hata kidogo...sikukubali lakini sina budi kuishi nao.. sii utamaduni wangu wala wa kwako wewe hivyo maadam tunakubali na kuwafuga ndani ya majumba yetu wenye makosa ni sisi wenyewe. Unajua kuna nchi kama Angola hawa jamaa walichukua lugha ya kireno kama lugha ya kufundishia miaka mingi tu leo hii karibu wananchi wake wote wamepoteza lugha zao za asili na bahati mbaya hawana lugha moja dominant kutokana na kuwepo makabila mengi.. Utamaduni huo wa lugha umekufa na hauna dawa..

Unaponiuliza kuhusu Ng'ombe na Sungura una maana gani?.. mbona hao ngombe hatuwaoni wakisali au kwenda kanisani,Je ina maana hata kuabudu Mungu ni makosa vile vile kwa sababu ni binadamu tu wanaofanya hivyo?
Na una uhakika gani kwamba hawa wanyama hawana mashoga kati yao..Nachosema mimi inatakiwa tuwe na sheria ambazo zinaweza kuwa applied ktk society yetu na maadam tumekubali mfumo wa Uraia ambao hauna dini wala rangi na watu wana kila culture, religion na kadhalika basi tukubali na mengi yanayokuja na hawa wageni...Kama tunataka sheria ifanye kazi ni lazima tuanze na mzizi wa machafu haya nayo ni kutokubali ushoga kabisana ijulikane Duniani Tanzania inmepiga marufuku mashoga na wasagaji kisha tuone kaa hiyo mikopo na misaada inaingia. Kwa nini tuwe wanafiki?.. mashoga wapo kila kona na wanaenda misikitini na makanisani, wengine wanasimamia hata sala...makosa yanatoka wapi watu hawa wakijitokeza na kufunga ndoa zao za kishoga!

Kaka Mkandara unataka kunambia kuwa Ushoga na aina zake umekubalika na serikali ya Tanzania!?

Au ni vile tu sheria nyingi hazifuwatwi, ndio maana inaonekana kama mambo ya ushoga ni halali?!

Ufafanuzi tafadhali.