8th Sullivan Summit Arusha Tanzania

Jasusi,
nimeuliza nafasi ya AY ktk mikataba hiyo! hakuna aliyenijibu.
sasa kwanza jaribu kutafuta ni lini AY amekuwa ktk advisory board ya Barricks... nina hakika hamfahamu isipokuwa tu mliposikia yupo Barricks basi hamkutaka hata kufahamu ni advisor ktk idara ipi, kuna watu wangapi na lini ameachukua nafasi hiyo. Hii ni kumhukumu AY kwa sababu ambazo hazina msingi. AY sio mhisa wa Barricks wala hana nafasi ndani ya kampuni hiyo kutoa maamuzi yoyote, leo hii mnambebesha mzigo usiokuwa wake kutokana na makosa ambayo tumeyafanya sisi wenyewe. kwanza ni aibu hata kuwalaumu Barricks ikiwa sisi wenyewe ndio tumepokea mkataba na kuweka sahihi bila kisu ubavuni.

Mkandara,
Granted, AY hana hisa katika Barrick. Fine. Lakini yuko kwenye bodi ya kampuni hiyo. Lakini vile vile ndiye anayemmwagia misifa JK. Amehusika katika maandalizi ya tafrija ya juzi hapa DC na kumwita JK kiongozi aliyekuwa "groomed" na JKN. Pia alihusika katika ile tafrija ya mwaka jana mjini NY. Apparently ana uhusiano wa karibu zaidi na JK kama alivyo Sinclair. Mimi binafsi sina problem na investments za AY katika Tanzania. To me the problem is when one uses his friendship and his closeness to our leader to advance his personal interests or the interests of the companies he is representing. Kwa sheria za hapa Marekani asingeweza kufanya hivyo. Lakini kwa kuwa sisi hatuna sheria kama hizo na pia tunaonekana kuwa mambumbumbu, they are taking advantage of us. That is my concern and hence the reason I am participating in this debate.

Mkandara said:

Susuviri,
Nakuelewa sana kuwa umejaribu kutafuta ukweli kuhusu Sullivan na kuwakilisha hoja zako, nanyi pia muwe radhi kupokea hoja zetu kwani ukweli wenu hauwezi kabisa kuwa ndio final... nachojaribu kusema mimi kila mara hujribu kutoa pendekezo ama solution badala ya kulaumu tuu kama jamaa wengi wanavyofanya. Sullivan sio AY wala AY sio Sullivan kwani kuamini hivyo ni sawa na kuamini kwamba Nyerere foundation itahukumiwa kwa kumtazama Salim A Salim.
Pili, hayo maelezo yanayohusiana na AY huko Wal mart mbona nachokiona mimi ni kuwa AY ametetea watu weusi na kawakandya Walmart ama kiingereza changu hakikwenda shule?...

He said:- Well, I think they should; they ran the 'mom and pop' stores out of my neighborhood, ... But you see, those are the people who have been overcharging us selling us stale bread and bad meat and wilted vegetables. And they sold out and moved to Florida. I think they've ripped off our communities enough. First it was Jews, then it was Koreans, and now it's Arabs; very few black people own these stores"

Hapa kawatetea vipi Walmart against blacks?
Labda unamsikia tu huyu mzee jinsi anavyochukia Ubepari na utumwa wa mawazo toka enzi za Dr. Martin Luther King. He was the bridge connection between blacks na white in US wakati wake na naweza kusema ndiye mweusi pekee aliyeweza shika nafasi kubwa wakati mbaya wa siasa za rangi nchini humo na matatizo ya Uhuru nchi za kiafrika yalikuwa ktk kilele chake.
Kisha swala la kusema AY ni Black American una maana gani kwani lini amekuwa mwafrika?....jamani tunachozungumza hapa ni uhusiano kati yao na sisi.. Hata angekuwa mwafrika bado ungesema ni Mganda ama Mrwanda kama tunavyowakataa wengine. Kisha usijaribu kabisa kumweka chini AY ktk uongozi wake kwani kayafanya mengi against his own country kwa sababu ya Uhuru wa nchi za kiafriKa na hasa South Africa na Rhodesia. Ni Andrew Young aliyeweza kuboresha mahusiano kati ya Marekani na nchi za kiafrica na yawezekana kuwa kiongozi pekee mweusi aliyewahi kuheshimiwa zaidi barani Africa kuliko hata Rev. Sullivan mwenyewe.Hii ni ndoto ya Sullivan na wengi tunaikubali isipokuwa baadhi ya watu ambao wanafahamu ujio wa mawazo ya huyu mtukufu Rev. Mungu amlaze mahala pema peponi - ni mwisho wa mzungu kutawala uchumi wa Africa.

Click to expand...

MKandara, I like that you have different views and it keeps us on our toes!
Naomba kwanza niseme wazi mimi ni mtu ninayependa sana debate and I enjoy a good argument so I accept that we can agree to disagree. Here are my arguments:
- WalMart: AY hakutetea blacks against WalMart, what this comes as an example is that he used the race card where it was not necessary. Koreans and Arabs all are minorities who had their share of problems in this! Na ndiyo maana the public outrage didn't come from whites only but other blacks as well, ndiyo maana ali-resign. At the end of the day, alikuwa analipwa na Walmart!
- AY and fighting for Africa - AY has long being discredited by his own community and people. Let me show you these quotations (this is from an activist Black newsletter)

BAR asked several Atlanta activists their opinion of Young's road from movement streets to the corporate suites.
"It's always sad, when you see somebody people look to as a leader crossing the line like that," observed Rev. Calvin Pollard of Emory University's Candler School of Theology. "This is a man who walked and worked with Dr. King. We should be able to expect better."
"Shameful," spat the Rev. Austin Ford, a retired Atlanta minister who had been active in SNCC more than 45 years ago.
"When you look at it, it's really not all that surprising," offered Dr. Keith Jennings. "This is the same Andrew Young that went straight from the King memorial celebration in Washington, DC to a Republican fundraiser across town where corporate fat cats showered Bush with campaign cash to do what he does for them. Those are the circles he moves in now, and that's who the brother is."
"Andy Young's been on that road a long time now," agreed Akinyele Umoja, a professor of African American studies at Georgia State University. "His deal with Wal-Mart was a shock to folks who hadn't been paying attention to what the man was doing."
One Atlanta native who has been paying close attention is Cynthia McKinney, the soon to be former congresswoman from Georgia:
"This is not the first time that Andy Young has associated with people of dubious repute.... During the time when I came under severe attack for my September 11 comments, I was investigating allegations that Barrick Gold and its mining operations in Africa had buried alive 60 African petty gold miners. I had been given a photograph, and I had eyewitness testimony that this had taken place. Unfortunately, Barrick Gold had some of the most notorious people associated with it, and Andy Young was part of that cabal. So, the financial arrangement that one enters into...one has to be careful where you get your paycheck from. And certainly, if you're going to sit on the boards of companies like that, you ought to serve as a conscience, not just as an employee receiving a paycheck."

Click to expand...

Nadhani hapa nimejibu also hoja yako kuhusu Role of Andy Young in Barrick incident. Hii issue ya wabongo kuzikwa was DIRECTLY responsible katika kunyamazisha hii issue. And this was not said by me, Jasusi or anyone but US COngresswoman!

I know that as one of the pan-Africans you feel that AY is one of us but remember he has come a loooong way from being the activist he used to be. Kumbuka alikuwa ambassador (UN) what did he use it for? To make friends with Obasanjo and later through GWI to steal from NIgerians and make lucrative deals for Chevron Texaco who are his clients.
You can't possibly deny this Mkandara!

Now the fact that AY is a lobbyist for corporate America that's ok but he shouldn't play the Pan-African card just like he tried to play the race card in the WalMart case

Back to Sullivan not being AY: I agree! Leon H Sullivan would be insulted if he saw what AY, Jeter and Masters are using the foundation for. Kumbuka SUllivan like Nyerere is dead RIP. I respect Sullivan saaana! But his foundation doesn't represent the same values. Tell me this, how can the co-founders of GWI be directly the leaders of Sullivan? Walijipenyeza and now they are using the Sullivan foundation for their own means. And it is sad, because hata Hope Sullivan binti yake is not aware that they are using her father's name!

Thanks for your views and I hope you keep the debate going! Peace!

Jasusi,
Sawa, twende kwa hatua.
Kwanza hujanijibu kitu kuhusu AY hadi hapa na hata hilo la Barricks hayupo ktk board of directors.- ushahidi huu hapa:- http://www.barrick.com/Company/CorporateGovernance/BoardofDirectors/default.aspx

Hivi, AY kumkaribisha JK huko NY na hapo DC imekuwa urafiki ? ni mara ngapi JK na AY wamekutana kama marafiki na sina hakika hata kama JK kawahi kufika nyumbani kwa AY. Yaani wabongo mpo radhi ku deal na mtu usiyemfahamu kabisa kuliko yule unayefahamu nini msimamo wake. Nitarudia kusema kama kuna la kujiuliza tuanze ndani kwani Sullivan foundation haikuanza jana JK aliposhika madaraka wala AY hakupewa wenyekiti kwa sababu JK ni mshikaji wake na sasa hivi ni rais. Hivi ikiwa kuna maandalizi ya mkutano June 2008 Tanzania ulifikiria ni njia ipi iliyotakiwa kutumiwa ktk kuweka mahusiano yetu karibu na Sullivan foundation. Kisha basi mkutano huu unategemewa kuingiza watalii wawekeshaji kwa mara ya kwanza badala ya hizo safari za JK nje ambazo kila siku zinatu cost sisi. Safari hii hao wageni wanakuja nchini na kuna kila nafasi ya wafanyabiashara Arusha kuuza mali zao hivyo kuongeza mfuko wa kodi yetu. Uliza wakazi wa hapo kuhusu biashara zao kila mikutano ya OAU unapofanyika tofauti na sisi tunapokwenda nje kuhudhuria mikutano.
Jasusi, AY ni mwenyekiti wa Sullivan siye mpangaji wa agenda za mkutano na mwakilishi wa makapuni ambayo sisi tunaweza kufanya nayo biashara.. Uchaguzi ni wetu sisi na ktk maswala gani tutaweza shirikiana.
habari za kusema JK amekuwa groomed na Nyerere ni za uongo? na wapi panaposema kuwa kiongozi hawezi kushirikiana na foundation ambayo mwenekiti wake ni rafiki yako. Kwa maana Sullivan foundation ni entity ambayo inaweza kumwondoa AY ktk kiti hicho na bado ikaendelea na kazi. Sielewi kinachozungumziwa hapa kwani ingelikuwa swala la upatikanaji wa hotel hiyo ya Mount Meru kumetokana na urafiki wake na JK tungekuwa na sababu ya kuzungumza lakini je ya hapo Sullivan foundation sio chama kama cha Bill gates foundation

Mkandara said:

Jasusi,
..... Sullivan foundation haikuanza jana JK aliposhika madaraka wala AY hakupewa wenyekiti kwa sababu JK ni mshikaji wake na sasa hivi ni rais. Hivi ikiwa kuna maandalizi ya mkutano June 2008 Tanzania ulifikiria ni njia ipi iliyotakiwa kutumiwa ktk kuweka mahusiano yetu karibu na Sullivan foundation. Kisha basi mkutano huu unategemewa kuingiza watalii wawekeshaji kwa mara ya kwanza badala ya hizo safari za JK nje ambazo kila siku zinatu cost sisi. Safari hii hao wageni wanakuja nchini na kuna kila nafasi ya wafanyabiashara Arusha kuuza mali zao hivyo kuongeza mfuko wa kodi yetu. Uliza wakazi wa hapo kuhusu biashara zao kila mikutano ya OAU unapofanyika tofauti na sisi tunapokwenda nje kuhudhuria mikutano.
Jasusi, AY ni mwenyekiti wa Sullivan siye mpangaji wa agenda za mkutano na mwakilishi wa makapuni ambayo sisi tunaweza kufanya nayo biashara.. Uchaguzi ni wetu sisi na ktk maswala gani tutaweza shirikiana.
habari za kusema JK amekuwa groomed na Nyerere ni za uongo? na wapi panaposema kuwa kiongozi hawezi kushirikiana na foundation ambayo mwenekiti wake ni rafiki yako. Kwa maana Sullivan foundation ni entity ambayo inaweza kumwondoa AY ktk kiti hicho na bado ikaendelea na kazi. Sielewi kinachozungumziwa hapa kwani ingelikuwa swala la upatikanaji wa hotel hiyo ya Mount Meru kumetokana na urafiki wake na JK tungekuwa na sababu ya kuzungumza lakini je ya hapo Sullivan foundation sio chama kama cha Bill gates foundation

Click to expand...

Mkandara, let us not spin issues.
It is true that AY did not become Chairman when JK became president that is not the issue. But About his power within Sullivan should not be underplayed!
Who is the leadership i.e. DECISIONMAKERS

Leadership
Howard F. Jeter
Howard F. Jeter, a former State Department Career Minister, is the new President and CEO of the Leon H. Sullivan Foundation. For the past two years, he has served as Executive Vice President for GoodWorks International.

Ambassador Jeter brings rich experience and background from working for nearly three decades in Africa. His last diplomatic posting was as U.S. Ambassador to Nigeria where he supported the country’s transition to democratic rule. He served as Deputy Chief of Mission in Namibia and Lesotho respectively. Ambassador Jeter has served as Deputy Assistant Secretary for African Affairs, Director of West African Affairs, and Special Presidential Envoy for Liberia, where he focused on promoting peace and reconciliation in both Liberia and Sierra Leone. Ambassador Jeter served with distinction as U.S. Ambassador to Botswana, and has also held various political, economic, commercial and consular positions in U.S. embassies in Mozambique and Tanzania and Temporary Liaison Office in Windhoek, Namibia.

Ambassador Jeter holds a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science from Morehouse College, a Masters in International Relations and Comparative Politics from Columbia University and a Masters degree in African Area Studies from UCLA. His languages include Portuguese, Swahili and French.

Andrew Young
The Honorable Andrew Young is Chairman of the Board of the Leon H. Sullivan Foundation and Co-Founding Partner of GoodWorks International, a consulting firm dedicated to promoting sustainable development in Africa and the Caribbean. He has had a distinguished career as a civil rights leader, an American statesman, humanitarian and businessman. During the Civil Rights Movement, Andrew Young, together with Martin Luther King, led the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC). He later served as a Member of the US House of Representatives, US Ambassador to the United Nations and Mayor of Atlanta. He led the 1996 Atlanta Committee for the Centennial Olympic Games, and was appointed by President Clinton as the Chairman of the Southern Africa Enterprise Development Fund. Andrew Young continues to share his wide-ranging experiences and expertise accumulated in the public and private sectors by participating in events and discussions that stimulate ground-breaking thinking on economic development, human rights and education in the US and around the world.

Click to expand...

AY and Jeter are both GWI! Surprise, surprise!
Who would oversee the activities of these leaders? The board, who sits on the board?

Ambassador Andrew Young
Chairman of the Board
Mr. Peter J. Robertson
Vice Chairman of the Board
Mrs. Hope Masters
Special Advisor
Dr. Andrew Brimmer
Treasurer
Board Members
Dr. Bernard E. Anderson Mr. Roderick Gillum
Ms. Connie Wilson Collins Hon. Alexis Herman
Hon. William J. Clinton Hon. Rodney E. Slater
Dr. William Crist Mr. Mark Whitaker

Click to expand...

Executive committe ni AY mwenyewe na mke wake mshikaji wake Carlton Masters - Hope Masters! And then Bill CLinton! Bill ni mshikaji wake AY alimpa uongozi wa Southern African Entrprise Developemnt Fund! Na mkewe Hilary alipewa tuzo na SUllivan foundation ili kumwongezea maksi kwa weusi! Wengine bado nawafanyia uchunguzi! But this is a club called friends of AY!
SO who watches the watchdog!?! His friends! Hahaha!
AY makes directly decisions within Sullivan and to bring it to TZ was his decision, let us not spin things! And the fact that Carlton Masters is Africa America Institute iliyotoa award juzi kwa rais na also is co-founder of GWI pamoja na AY is also FACT!

Alafu unaniambia this is NORMAL! No it's not! Na kama magazeti ya MArekani wakipata data hizi they will have a field day! Be careful this can be the scandal of the year!

Urafiki wa JK na AY ni unafiki ni ya Bwana na mjakazi! Listen JK hamfikii AY katika ujanja! He has been bought and is in his pocket! I don't think kama AY needs to invite him even for a drink! Huu ndio ukweli! Kwani ilikuwaje na Obasanjo!
Ok, kuhusu Sullivan kutunufaisha eti wafanyabiashara watauza bidhaa, jamani!
Is that what we expect from this meeting! This is nonsense! Sisi tunataka uwekezaji wa maana utakaonufaisha nchi yetu. What are we talking about? Unasema safari za rais zinagharimu na hii itapunguza gharama! NO! AICC wanaifanyia ukarabati, pia wanakarabati barabara na serikali inalipa hosting fees (not disclosed to wananchi how much we are talking about!). Serikali iweke wazi ni investment gani inafanya for the meeting! I am sure it is several million dollars.
You have not convinced yet, Mkandara!

Susuviri,
Imekuwa tena AY used the race card against Walmart? duh! hii tena mpya sasa ulitaka aseme kitu gani ikiwa waliotaka utetezi wake walikuwa wananchi weusi?...
Ni kweli kuwa waliomlaumu sio weupe peke yake wapo weusi wengi tu ambao kwa lugha kama yako walikuwa ktk payroll ya mtu mweupe. hadi leo wapo weusi wanaompaka mavi Dr. Martin Luther King au Malcom X inategemea na info unazozipata ama kile unachoamini.
Binafsi CV ya Andrew Young and what he did to Africa wakati ule unatosha kabisa. Hayo ya Nigeria sijawahi kuyasikia na sina data zinazomhusisha moja kwa moja. Kisha kumbuka pia labda mimi na wewe tunatofautiana ktk mtazamo wa swala hili kisiasa. AY imefikia wakati kakubali kuwa dunia ya leo (Utandawazi na soko huria) huwezi kuepuka big corporates hata kidogo isipokuwa njia bora ni kujenga chombo chako ambacho kitaweza kuwasiliana na hawa wakubwa ili kuweza kufikia mahala penye nafuu kwa wote. Chombo kitakachoweza kukulinda kukuongoza na pengine kufikiria kama wao ktk kujihami kwako. Hii ndiyo ndoto ya Sullivan kwa Africa na ndio maana hata Uhuru wa South Africa umekuwa wa mseto kati ya wazungu na weusi tofauti kabisa na mategemeo ya wengi ambao walitaka kaburu asukumwe baharini, kisha AY hakuanza kuwepo Sullivan majuzi baada ya jamaa kututoka..
Anachofanya AY hakina tofauti kabisa na malengo ya Sullivan foundation toka mwanzo....
Susuviri, leo hii mimi nafanya kazi na wayahudi tena kwa ukaribu zaidi tofauti na imani niliyokuwa nayo zamani. Sometimes a way out of no way is equal to -If you can beat them join them, kupata akili za kujijengea ngome ili upate kujilinda pindi utakapo jua silaha ya adui yake. Sio kufanya mabaya kama wanavyoyafanya wao ila kushirikiana na mabepari ndiyo njia pekee inayoweza kutusaidia sisi kuliko kuendelea kuutangaza Ukommunist. Vita yetu itakuwa ya uso kwa uso kama Baghdad hakuna mabomu ya kushtukizwa.
sasa AY kama amefungua consulting company yake ambayo ni sawa kabisa na law firm eti unaweza kumkataa mteja kwa sababu aliua kweli?...
brother business is business na kuna wakati a good lawyer ni yule anayeweza shinda kesi yenye utta mkubwa kama vile Shapiro na kesi ya OJ Simpson.
Kumlaumu Young ktk maswala ya Bulyanhulu ni upuuzi mtupu kwani ndiye aliyeshinikiza kuja kwa wachunguzi ambao serikali yetu yenyewe ilikubali kuficha ukweli na kisha basi barricks kabla hawajaingia Tanzania tayari Sutton walikwisha ua wale watu. Tatizo kubwa hapa ni kuwa wanasheria walitaka Barricks walipe hasara na majanga yaliyoanchwa na Sutton kitu ambacho hata mimi kama mshauri ningekataa. Zaidi ya hapo serikali yetu ilikataa katu kutokea kwa maswala hayo kwa hiyo mlitaka AY afanye kitu gani?

Mkandara said:

Susuviri,

Ni kweli kuwa waliomlaumu sio weupe peke yake wapo weusi wengi tu ambao kwa lugha kama yako walikuwa ktk payroll ya mtu mweupe. hadi leo wapo weusi wanaompaka mavi Dr. Martin Luther King au Malcom X inategemea na info unazozipata ama kile unachoamini.
Binafsi CV ya Andrew Young and what he did to Africa wakati ule unatosha kabisa. Hayo ya Nigeria sijawahi kuyasikia na sina data zinazomhusisha moja kwa moja. Kisha kumbuka pia labda mimi na wewe tunatofautiana ktk mtazamo wa swala hili kisiasa. AY imefikia wakati kakubali kuwa dunia ya leo (Utandawazi na soko huria) huwezi kuepuka big corporates hata kidogo isipokuwa njia bora ni kujenga chombo chako ambacho kitaweza kuwasiliana na hawa wakubwa ili kuweza kufikia mahala penye nafuu kwa wote. Chombo kitakachoweza kukulinda kukuongoza na pengine kufikiria kama wao ktk kujihami kwako. Hii ndiyo ndoto ya Sullivan kwa Africa na ndio maana hata Uhuru wa South Africa umekuwa wa mseto kati ya wazungu na weusi tofauti kabisa na mategemeo ya wengi. Anachofanya AY hakina tofauti kabisa na malengo ya Sullivan foundation toka mwanzo....
Susuviri, leo hii mimi nafanya kazi na wayahudi tena kwa ukaribu zaidi tofauti na imani niliyokuwa nayo zamani. Sometimes a way out of no way is equal to -If you can beat them join them ili kupata akili za kujijengea ngome ili upate kujilinda pindi utakapo jua silaha ya adui yake.
sasa AY kama amefungua consulting company yake ambayo ni sawa kabisa na law firm eti unaweza kumkataa mteja kwa sababu aliua kweli?...
brother business is business na kuna wakati a good lawyer ni yule anayeweza shinda kesi yenye utta mkubwa kama vile Shapiro na kesi ya OJ Simpson.
Kumlaumu Young ktk maswala ya Bulyanhulu ni upuuzi mtupu kwani ndiye aliyeshinikiza kuja kwa wachunguzi ambao serikali yetu yenyewe ilikubali kuficha ukweli na kisha basi barricks kabla hawajaingia Tanzania tayari Sutton walikwisha ua wale watu. Tatizo kubwa hapa ni kuwa wanasheria walitaka Barricks walipe hasara na majanga yaliyoanchwa na Sutton kitu ambacho hata mimi kama mshauri ningekataa. Zaidi ya hapo serikali yetu ilikataa katu kutokea kwa maswala hayo kwa hiyo mlitaka AY afanye kitu gani?

Click to expand...

MKandara, thanks for your input.
Nigeria - naomba usome new york times article nimepost previously. This is not rumour!

Kampuni ya AY na attitude yako about cooperating with people you considered enemies or adversaries - I think that if you are a person of principle hakuna discussion. You gave South Africa kama mfano, je una habari kwamba hivi sasa the voices are getting louder about this 'dialogue' that you mentioned and so you see the ascend of Zuma! Look, AY didn't join them for any other reason than to make money hii ni dhahiri! Na wewe umetoa mfano mzuri that he like a lawyer. If that is so usitumie excuse eti anatusaidia sisi waafrika! He is working for his own interest and that's fair. But please stop the window dressing!

Bulyanhulu - kwa kweli sikubaliani na wewe. Eti aliomba uchunguzi lakini serikali ya Bongo ilikataa ku-acknowledge! Please! Wote tunajua siasa that was tactic, eti AY angefanya nini? WHAT? You ask this question when he was in the Civil rights movement? Excuse me?! Angefanya kama Congresswoman from Georgia alivyojaribu kuishinikiza Barrick na Serikali ya Tanzania through congress etc especially since he is buddies with Clinton! NO way! Hapo huna la kumtetea! He should have stood up for fellow Africans wanaouwawa na blood sucking whites! But you know what? he was on the payroll of whites! Eti kosa alifanya Sutton (i.e. Sinclair?) Well how can you sit down shake hands and be pals (evidence ni picha tuliyopost) with a man who killed your African 'brothers"? Look, Mkandara inabidi ukubali he is in for the money and he is mercenary kama ulivyo argue hapo juu, so then let's drop the BS kwamba 'He is doing this for development of Africa" That is what infuriates me!
He is economic hitman, and I accept that but asitumie CV yake kujifanya 'holier than thou'!
Tell me, is he a man of principle? NO! Is he an econmic hitman and a mercernary? YES! Na I have no problems if we can distinguish the two things.

mfwatiliaji said:

Seriously hii thread imenisababishia matatatizo ghafla!!.. sasa ninatetemeka na najisikia moyo unakwenda mbio kuliko kawaida!!najisikia mbofumbofu.Inabidi nifanye namna nionane na daktari mapema. Very unfortunate.

Click to expand...

Duh, sasa wewe unatia huruma. Ile nchi inabidi uwe na roho ngumu vinginevyo jifungie kabisa usisoma haya mambo, pole sana.

Mkandara,

Bottom line is this: AY is giving props and praises to Kikwete who is incompetent and corrupt. What this means is that AY and his interests are happy to work with a leader of one of the richest countries (uchumi tumeukalia) in the world to their gains and not for mutual win win situation!

Why didn't he deal with Mkapa? was it because Mkapa focus was with EU and AU and not US only?

Kikwete ni Kibaraka wa mabepari. Ni mdhaifu sana wa kufikiri na anafanya mambo kiswahili swahili tu, bila kuwa na fikira sahihi (kwa kukusudia au bila kukusudia)!

Hivi mpaka leo ameshindwa kutoa uamuzi mkali wa tuhuma za Ufisadi na Rushwa na kudai tungoje upelelezi ambao bado unaingiliwa na serikali yake, halafu AY anampa tuzo na sifa kibao!

Check out what Economist have said about Kikwete 9similar to what we say in here at JF) and compare to what Sinclair, AY and Tudor say about him!

Uraisi ni institution and is a sacred job. If AY ambaye alikuwa ni champion wa haki na kuondoa dhuluma na ubangaizaji uliokandamiza maendeleo ya Wanugu akiwa na MLK, leo anatoa sifa kwa mtu mzembe wa kufanya kazi na kufikiri kama JK unafikiri sisi tutaacha kumshuku?

He has a right to run his business as he pleases (AY), however when he showers our incompetent president with all the ecolades, then his intentions as business man sound corrupt!

Same goes with Sinclair, Tudor and others who are always praising incompetent third world leader for the benefit of their companies and nations!

Why didn't he deal with Mkapa? was it because Mkapa focus was with EU and AU and not US only?
Kikwete ni Kibaraka wa mabepari. Ni mdhaifu sana wa kufikiri na anafanya mambo kiswahili swahili tu, bila kuwa na fikira sahihi (kwa kukusudia au bila kukusudia)!

Check out what Economist have said about Kikwete 9similar to what we say in here at JF) and compare to what Sinclair, AY and Tudor say about him!
.....
He has a right to run his business as he pleases (AY), however when he showers our incompetent president with all the ecolades, then his intentions as business man sound corrupt!

Same goes with Sinclair, Tudor and others who are always praising incompetent third world leader for the benefit of their companies and nations![/

Click to expand...

Rev Kishoka! Kudos! You asked a very significant question that I asked myself! Why now? Why so intensively?!
Hiyo ya praises na Economist FYI it was Tudor aliye-engineer hiyo article na hata ile helikopta iliyobeba TV crew ilikuwa ni ya hao mabepari! They are spinning things! Kama rais wetu kalala tumwamshe jamani! Mkandara kama una-access naye, please ask him these questions! Hata aki-deal nao awe mwangalifu! Asipumbazwe na hao neo-colonizers, they come in all colors!
Rev! Thanks for your valuable input!

Many thanks Susuviri!

Wanabodi,
Mtanisamehe maanake maswali yamekuwa mengi nashindwa hata kufuatilia ila nitakachosema ni kwamba yote mlozungumza yanazidi kupotosha umma.
nashindwa kuelewa kama anayetakiwa kulaumiwa ni JK ama AY kwa sababu kama JK ni fisadi na huyo fisadi mnamjengea ngome asikutane na AY fisadi mwingine hapa nashindwa kuelewa. na kifupi sijawahi kuona dunia ya leo mfanya biashara ambaye ataweza kuionea huruma Afrika kama sio sisi wenyewe na hasa tukipata kifua cha Sullivan.

Pili, Susuviri ameshindwa kabisa kutenganisha maelezo yangu kuhusu AY akiwa co founder wa GWI na kazi zake halafu kama mwenyekiti wa Sullivan foundation kiasi kwamba unataka tuamini kuwa AY ndiye mwamuzi wa dira ya Sullivan foundation na GWI yaani hawa ni kitu kimoja ama Sullivan imevumbuliwa na AY kama vile Foundation zakina Bill gates na Clinton.
Swala la Bulyanhulu liko wazi kabisa kuwa waliofanya maafa yale ni Sutton, leo hii kwa sababu AY amekuwa mtetezi wa Barricks ndio kumekuwa kosa lake na ndio maana nikatoa mfano wa Lawyer kwa malengo kuwa utetezi wa kesi ndiyo kazi yake sio swala la fedha kuvuta ama kuona huruma wakati hakuna ushahidi wa kumfunga mteja wake. haikuwa kazi ya AY kukusanya ushahidi dhidi ya Barricks na kama Mkapa angemfuata na kusema mjomba hawa jamaa walitufanyizia sio Sutton, sidhani kama angesimama upande wao. Trust me bado angechukiwa na waswahili kwa nini kawaondoa Barricks kwa sababu kama unakumbuka kule Bcstime niliwahi kuzungumzia kuhusu Barricks nikapigwa vita vikali sana kuwa mimi bado mjamaa - Ubishi wenyewe ulikuwa kama huu na nitasema tena maadam mkutano huo upo naomba niweke record ya kuwa naunga mkono jitihada za mkutano huo na kesho yakija mazuri msije sema vinginevyo. Msifiche sura zenu na kuatfuta magoinjwa mengine.
Susuviri, unapokazania kuwa malengo ya AY ni fedha una maana gani haswa?... maanake madai kama haya naweza sema kuwa JK, kuwa rais kasukumwa na fedha kwanza, hali nachofahamu mimi JK ilikuwa ni ambition yake - ile ndoto ya kukalia kiti cha Urais. Zaidi ya hapo pia naweza sema sisi sote wafanyakazi tunasukumwa na fedha kufanya kazi na sio wajibu wetu kufanya kazi. Ubishi kama huu hauwezi kuwa na suluhu kwani hkuna kati yetu nyeweza kufanya kazi bure.
Pili, niliseme kuwa hiyo summit ya Arusha itaweza kutuletea fedha badala ya kuandaliwa nje ambako kila siku cost zake huwa ni kubwa zaidi. Yatakayofuatia baada ya mkutano huo siyafahamu ila nachojua kutakuwepo na deal nzuri zenye malengo mazuri maadam sisi tuwe na msimamo wetu ktk mikataba hii. ulichojaribu kubadilisha hapa ni kuchanganya mazuri ya wakati wa mkutano huo na yale yatakayofuata baada yaa.
Kisha labda hufahamu jinsi watu wanavyofanya kazi zao dunia hii ya mtandao...mjomba unaweza kumkuta Bill Gates ktk makampuni zaidi ya matano na uhusiano wake ukakupa taabu kuelewa. hadi hapa sijaona kitu kinachoweza kunipa hofu na hata hiyo GWI ikiwa hawa ni consultant firm tu, uamuzi wa mwisho unao wewe mwenyewe.
Jasusi,
AY hakuweza ku deal na Mkapa kwa sababu huyu ndiye koloni gugu lililokolea na ubwana wa kutawala. hawa wasinggeweza kuelewana na ndio maana hata kesi ya Bulyanhulu ilizimwa. Mtasema mnalotaka lakini Mkapa ana hisa Barricks na anavuta zaidi ya AY kama mshauri nadhani hawa wangeweza kuunda timu vizuri zaidi ikiwa AY ni mtu mnayesema. Ajabu ni kwamba mnamhusisha na mjinga asojua kula JK badala ya mwizi mwenzake Mkapa!...Aliyekuwa kibaraka wa mabepari ni Mkapa na JK ni mwanafunzi wake mbaye anaendeleza yale aloacha Mkapa. Labda ktk hii ni wakati pekee amejaribu kufikiria kwa akili badala ya kuwasikiliza akina IMF.

Asante sana Susuviri kwa nondo zako.

Mkandara,
Believe me hata mimi ule mkutano wa Arusha naufagilia for various reasons. But this does not take away the issues we are trying to address in this debate, namely that Tanzania is being taken for a ride due to our inept leadership and the cosy relationship that is growing between JK and these agents of corporate America. Do we have to surrender to the whims and dictates of these multi corporations for us to advance? My answer is no. Can we work with them for the benefit of Tanzania? I say Yes. Are we doing it now? The answer is no. And that is why you and I are here debating.

Jasusi,

Sasa unadhani hizo corporate america zitawanufaisha vipi watanzania ambao ni masikini wakutupwa.Hivi unajua hata Venezuela kulikuwa na corporate american kwa karibu miaka 30yrs na matokeo yake ni kwamba umasikini umeongezeka na ndiyo maana wanampiga vita Chavez kila kukicha.

Wembe

Wembemkali,
That's what we are talking about. That's why I am not shouting "halleluya," eti kwa sababu corporate Amerika inaingia Bongo. Lazima tuwe na tahadhari. Kama kuja kwao kungekuwa kunaleta neema tusingehitaji hata mjadala huu.

JK ni kiongozi dhaifu, na anatumiwa/anachezewa kama toy(mdoli). Ni bahati mbaya sana kwa sisi watanzania tuliomchagua atuongoze.

Kwa sababu ya udhaifu wa kiongozi wetu, sisi tuna kila sababu ya kuwa 'sceptical' na 'deals' zinazoletwa mbele yake.

Hapa nawaunga mkono kabisa Susuviri, Rev Kishoka, and the likes.

Jasusi,

Do we have to surrender to the whims and dictates of these multi corporations for us to advance? My answer is no. Can we work with them for the benefit of Tanzania? I say Yes. Are we doing it now? The answer is no. And that is why you and I are here debating

Click to expand...

Safi sana sasa naona tuko pamoja isipokuwa tunatofautiana tu jinsi ya kulitazama swala hili. All I stand for is can we work with them for the benefit of Tanzania?.. YES...then how? ndipo hapo inaingia Sullivan foundation ambayo wengi mnaipinga kwa sababu mnafikiria hapa tutakuwa tuna surrender to these corporates using AY as a bridge not Sullivan foundation and its cause.
To summarize, the issue here is the fear of these Corporates not AY.
Ndio maana nikasema hivi ili tupate kushirikiana na haya makampuni makubwa tunahitaji watu wenye ujuzi na mbinu za ku deal nao (hapa kuondoa ile fear) hawa jamaa hata kama wameletwa na AY kupitia Sullivan. Lengo letu liwe kutokimbia maendeleo yanayoweza kupatikana ikiwa tutakuwa makini na macho. Kamwe hatuwezi kuwakimbia hawa jamaa hata kama tutarudi ktk Ujamaa ama mikwara kama ya Mugabe, haitasaidia kitu.

Mkandara,
So far so good. Mimi sijaipinga Sullivan Foundation. Nakumbuka na kuheshimu kazi kubwa waliyoifanya wakati wa apartheid Afrika kusini. Lakini inavyoonekana, kama ilivyo kwingineko wajanja wachache wenye kuweka mbele maslahi yao wanataka kuiteka hii asasi iwahudumie wao wenyewe.Huwezi kuwa mkuu wa kampuni ya kibiashara na kuwa wakati huo huo mtetezi wa wanyonge. Hii ndiyo njia panda alipojikuta AY. Naona yeye ameamua kuhudumia maslahi yake kwanza kwa kutumia mgongo wa SF. The sooner the leadership of SF discover this, the better.

Wakuu wote hapa heshima mbele, swali langi ni iwapo inawezekana kuzitenganisha hii Sullivan, na Andrew Young, maan huyu mkuu nimeisoma habari yake yote ya mambo maovu aliyoyafanya Nigeria,

Sasa kama ameweza kuwafanyia wajanja kama wa-Nigeria, sisi wabongo itakuwaje?