China in Africa: win-win development, or a new colonialism?

[Geza Ulole]

Typical bongo lala. U cannot cherry pick the truth and chose what to believe or not. From your said article the Kenya SGR is going to Rwanda and Burundi.

Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.


The said article also states

The flagship Belt and Road project is Kenya’s 290-mile railway from the capital, Nairobi, to the port city of Mombasa, which opened to the public last year.

There are plans to extend that network into South Sudan, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi; it was already the country’s largest infrastructure project since independence.

Now get the real picture on the ground, neither Uganda nor Rwanda has made commitment to Kenya's SGR and aside that 80 km/h railway is to compete with 120 km/h to transport cargo from Mombasa and Bagamoyo n Dar ports repectively aside Tanga port a gateway for crude oil from Uganda, DRC n South Sudan .


The comparison with Shenzhen may not be so far-fetched, says the China-Africa specialist Lauren Johnston of New South Economics. “Would visitors to Shenzhen in 1980 have believed what would be unlocked by that sleepy port?” she says. “Bagamoyo could become an industrial gateway not only for youth-filled Tanzania but half a dozen landlocked African countries. There are parallels.”

The proposed radical transformation of the Bagamoyo coastline is an unofficial extension to east Africa as part of Chinese president Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road Initiative – and is just the latest in a long line of China-in-Africa projects.

 

[GeniSys101]

Ingekua ni mkenya angeambia anapenda sifa za kijinga... sasa ina huyu mtanzania anapost habari ambayo heading ni " China in Africa: win-win development, or a new colonialism?"
.... The Jury is still out

Whats with us bantus? We should collectively try to find the path to wealth just like other races have done… sio kupondana..

 

[Kidzude]

Tafuta level ya ku-argue nayo mi si size yako!

Kifupi una tatizo la kujiamini na upo excited. Mara nyingine uwe unafikiri Mara mbili sio kila kitu unajua .unajianika.

 

[Geza Ulole]

Kifupi una tatizo la kujiamini na upo excited, myopia you think you know everything while exposing your low level of thinking. Thanks.

Unapokuwa hujui financiers halafu wakwanza ku-crash the project nashindwa jinsi ya kukujibu! Sorry tafuta level yako! Au make use of google first n come n engage urself in this discussion.

 

[thisdayes]

Hii mbaya

Mzee hiyo siyo mbaya ni kitu kizuri sana. Dar port pale ilipo haiwezi kupanuka tena zaidi ya upanuzi unao fanyika sasa hivi, kuna miji ina bandari zaidi ya 3 mzee. Miaka 10 ijayo itakua congested.

Hii ni kwa wote mnao tilia shaka huu mradi, Akili za China na Oman haziwezi kutupa $10b bila kuhakiki. Huu siyo mkopo mkumbuke. uwekezaji kama huu siyo wa kuangalia miaka 10 ijayo, watu wana mahesabu ya mbali. Ni vizuri watu waka hoji viwanda ambavyo wa China wana panga kivijenga pale ni vya namna gani. Mjadala uliyo kuwepo ni kwamba usifanyike kwa phases ufanyike wote kwa pamoja kama ambavyo serikali ina taka. Kama serikali hii ili achana na SGR ya Ki China ambayo ilikuwa full financed na kuamau kujipinda kwa tabu kujenga yenyewe. Ila Bagomoyo wanataka ufanyike kwa pamoja basi mjue yajayo yana furahisha.

 

[Kidzude]

Mzee hiyo siyo mbaya ni kitu kizuri sana. Dar port pale ilipo haiwezi kupanuka tena zaidi ya upanuzi unao fanyika sasa hivi, kuna miji ina bandari zaidi ya 3 mzee. Miaka 10 ijayo itakua congested.

Hii ni kwa wote mnao tilia shaka huu mradi, Akili za China na Oman haziwezi kutupa $10b bila kuhakiki. Huu siyo mkopo mkumbuke. uwekezaji kama huu siyo wa kuangalia miaka 10 ijayo, watu wana mahesabu ya mbali. Ni vizuri watu waka hoji viwanda ambavyo wa China wana panga kivijenga pale ni vya namna gani. Mjadala uliyo kuwepo ni kwamba usifanyike kwa phases ufanyike wote kwa pamoja kama ambavyo serikali ina taka. Kama serikali hii ili achana na SGR ya Ki China ambayo ilikuwa full financed na kuamau kujipinda kwa tabu kujenga yenyewe. Ila Bagomoyo wanataka ufanyike kwa pamoja basi mjue yajayo yana furahisha.

Mkuu hebu nielekeze mode operandum, is it PPP or BOT. Na Je kuna plan yeyote na kukonnect kwenye existing sgr. Market, Je tunaamini kuna uhitaji Wa bandari kwa miaka 20 iyayo, ili hali tanga na mtwara zipo. Nielewesheni msinitukane.

 

[thisdayes]

Mkuu hebu nielekeze mode operandum, is it PPP or BOT. Na Je kuna plan yeyote na kukonnect kwenye existing sgr. Market, Je tunaamini kuna uhitaji Wa bandari kwa miaka 20 iyayo, ili hali tanga na mtwara zipo. Nielewesheni msinitukane.

Yeah Bagamoyo port itakua connected na SGR mpaka feasibility study imesha fanywa.

Uhitaji wa bandari upo ndiyo maana watu wako willing kuweka $10b leo siyo 20years to come.

Itakuwa PPP serikali inapaswa kuwa na hisa na siyo BOT. Ila mkuu kuna mtu amekushauli uingie google majibu yote yapo hawa wanaobisha humu ni Wakenya wako biased. Wewe tafuta taharifa kwa utulivu

 

[eliakeem]

Mkuu hebu nielekeze mode operandum, is it PPP or BOT. Na Je kuna plan yeyote na kukonnect kwenye existing sgr. Market, Je tunaamini kuna uhitaji Wa bandari kwa miaka 20 iyayo, ili hali tanga na mtwara zipo. Nielewesheni msinitukane.

Brother normally the needs derive the type of PPP. Watch the following:
1. If the issue is lack of fund, then the type of PPP to be deployed is concession.
2. If the issue is lack of technical capacity, then the type of PPP to be deployed is management contract.
3. If the issue is both of the above, then the type of PPP to be deployed is concession.

BOT, DFBOT are modes of PPP. You choose either of above according to your need.

 

[Kidzude]

Brother normally the needs derive the type of PPP. Watch the following:
1. If the issue is lack of fund, then the type of PPP to be deployed is concession.
2. If the issue is lack of technical capacity, then the type of PPP to be deployed is management contract.
3. If the issue is both of the above, then the type of PPP to be deployed is concession.

BOT, DFBOT are modes of PPP. You choose either of above according to your need.

Thanks. Ni dubwasha pana sana , ndio maana laogopwa. Imagine BOT for 100 yrs au mgnt contract muda Wote, au Vifaa vyote vitoke kwao, hata kama tuna malighafi. Anyway yafaa kujua Haya.

 

[eliakeem]

Thanks. Ni dubwasha pana sana , ndio maana laogopwa. Imagine BOT for 100 yrs au mgnt contract muda Wote, au Vifaa vyote vitoke kwao, hata kama tuna malighafi. Anyway yafaa kujua Haya.

We need to have a composite, conversant and dedicated team to handle this. Most of writers of the subject consider PPP as a marriage. Needs dedication, transparency and trust. Especially in the issue of identifying risk on one side and who bear WHAT on the other side.

 

[Kafrican]

Whats with us bantus? We should collectively try to find the path to wealth just like other races have done… sio kupondana..

Thats what you get when we skipped the normal evolution curve and tried to be like rest of the developed world. We went from hunter and gatherer and traditional farmer ... skipped the agrarian revolution, the industrial revolution and now we are in technological revolution trying so hard to skip the process inorder to 'catch up' with the rest... Those guys had tarmacked roads (for their horse carriages) before the even invented cars, they had street lights (1st by lighting candles inside a glass then by connecting pipes to natural gas and lighting up the exit point of the pipe) before they discovered electricity. garbage collection and There is an order to these things... ndo maana utakuta huku Africa jamaa anaishi kwa apartment nzuri, lakini akitoka nje ya gate anakanyaga matope ndo afikia Lami ya barabara kuu, hapo kando kila mtu anatupa taka kusababisha sewage ku block.. Alafu jamaa anaenda kujisifia anaishi nyumba nzuri! We are all collectivley stupid as a society.... Ndo maana utakuta jamaa wanapondana siku nzima hapa waki maintain status quo

 

[Kafrican]

Wacha machungu soma jinsi mchina alivyowauzia kibudu kwenye gunia! Mlivyoskia belt and road mkakurupuka Kwa ubinafsi mkifikiria LAPSSET na SGR ya 80 km/h itauwa Bagamoyo port project. Kule Lamu mtabaki wenyewe na SGR mnabaki wenyewe. Na kukopa mmekopa! Sie Bagamoyo FDI wakati SGR less than 40% itakuwa low interest loan.

Sasa Lamu itauwaje Bagamoyo port wakati Lamu inajengwa mbele ya Norther corridor na mbele ya Mombasa..... Hata Uganda haiko kwa blueprint ya Lapsset na iko karibu na Lamu, Sembuse bagamoyo???

Tatizo ni Kwamba mnafikiria Kenya Iliamka siku moja tu na Kuamua kujenga Lamu bila kupiga hesabu zake..... Hii hapa Mombasa port masterplan ambayo ina include hesabu za kila port ukanda huu wa mashariki kutoka kule Sudan port, Djibouti, Somali, Tz hadi Mozambique...


First elewa Kwanini LAmu port is necessary.. Green is the port initial capacity before expansion of Mombasa port started, Purple is phase 1 of 3, which started and completed in 2016 increassing the port capacity to 1.4 Million TEUS, Blue is phase 2 and will start in 2018 up to 2020 increasing the port capacity to 1.9millionTEUS, phase 3 in Orange will start in 2021-2023 and will increase Mombasa port capacity to 2.4 Million TEUs.
The curved line is the projected demand of cargo going through the port, You can see that Mombasa port will keep meeting cargo demand(Although barely) if the expansion continues, but by 2023 after phase 3, Mombasa port will have no more space to expand, the demad will keep rising.... upto 3.5 Million TEUs by 2030, Who will fill this gap?, who will unburden Mombasa? So even without Ethiopia, Lamu port is very necessary for Kenya's survival

Na usifikiria hatukupiga Hesabu za impact ya Bagamoyo port


Tulipiga hesabu zetu, Tukawafanyia hesabu zote ya mtaanza ujenzi lini na mtamaliza lini

Tulipiga mpaka hesabu za throughput ya Bagamoyo kuanzia 2020 hadi 2030 kwa phase 1,2,3 ya ujenzi wa Bagamoyo.. Wachina na wa Omani hawatajenga port ya $11Billion yote kwa mpigo, watajenga first phase waangalie kama biashara inanoga alafu ndo wajenge next phase, kukiwa hakuna biashara wanadelay the next phase ...etc

Pia tulipiga hesabu za Ethiopia kutumia Somaliland, na upanuzi wa hio bandari

Tukapiga pia hesabu za South Sudan kutumia Somaliland port

Tukapiga Hesabu za Bandari zote za Tanzania

Mozambique nao hatuwaacha

Hizi ni studies zilianza 2011 na ripoti ikakua bublished 2015 kabla Ujenzi wa first 3 birsths za Lamu unanze, Lamu ilipigiwa hesabu zote, Wengi wenu hua mnapenda kudai Kenya haina mpango lakini wengi wenu hua mko ignorant, Kila project kubwa Kenya, ukitafuta mtandaoni unapata project report au feasibility au ESIA ambayo inaeleza kila kitu na kwanini, wapi, nani, lini... etc Kenya ilishapiga hesabu zake na inafanya vitu vyake kulingana na hesabu zake, Fwateni yenu!

 

[asvptx]

Sasa Lamu itauwaje Bagamoyo port wakati Lamu inajengwa mbele ya Norther corridor na mbele ya Mombasa..... Hata Uganda haiko kwa blueprint ya Lapsset na iko karibu na Lamu, Sembuse bagamoyo???

Tatizo ni Kwamba mnafikiria Kenya Iliamka siku moja tu na Kuamua kujenga Lamu bila kupiga hesabu zake..... Hii hapa Mombasa port masterplan ambayo ina include hesabu za kila port ukanda huu wa mashariki kutoka kule Sudan port, Djibouti, Somali, Tz hadi Mozambique...


First elewa Kwanini LAmu port is necessary.. Green is the port initial capacity before expansion of Mombasa port started, Purple is phase 1 of 3, which started and completed in 2016 increassing the port capacity to 1.4 Million TEUS, Blue is phase 2 and will start in 2018 up to 2020 increasing the port capacity to 1.9millionTEUS, phase 3 in Orange will start in 2021-2023 and will increase Mombasa port capacity to 2.4 Million TEUs.
The curved line is the projected demand of cargo going through the port, You can see that Mombasa port will keep meeting cargo demand(Although barely) if the expansion continues, but by 2023 after phase 3, Mombasa port will have no more space to expand, the demad will keep rising.... upto 3.5 Million TEUs by 2030, Who will fill this gap?, who will unburden Mombasa? So even without Ethiopia, Lamu port is very necessary for Kenya's survival

View attachment 828200



Na usifikiria hatukupiga Hesabu za impact ya Bagamoyo port


Tulipiga hesabu zetu, Tukawafanyia hesabu zote ya mtaanza ujenzi lini na mtamaliza lini
View attachment 828219


Tulipiga mpaka hesabu za throughput ya Bagamoyo kuanzia 2020 hadi 2030 kwa phase 1,2,3 ya ujenzi wa Bagamoyo.. Wachina na wa Omani hawatajenga port ya $11Billion yote kwa mpigo, watajenga first phase waangalie kama biashara inanoga alafu ndo wajenge next phase, kukiwa hakuna biashara wanadelay the next phase ...etc
View attachment 828220



Pia tulipiga hesabu za Ethiopia kutumia Somaliland, na upanuzi wa hio bandari
View attachment 828230


Tukapiga pia hesabu za South Sudan kutumia Somaliland port
View attachment 828237

Tukapiga Hesabu za Bandari zote za Tanzania
View attachment 828240

Mozambique nao hatuwaacha


View attachment 828249









Hizi ni studies zilianza 2011 na ripoti ikakua bublished 2015 kabla Ujenzi wa first 3 birsths za Lamu unanze, Lamu ilipigiwa hesabu zote, Wengi wenu hua mnapenda kudai Kenya haina mpango lakini wengi wenu hua mko ignorant, Kila project kubwa Kenya, ukitafuta mtandaoni unapata project report au feasibility au ESIA ambayo inaeleza kila kitu na kwanini, wapi, nani, lini... etc Kenya ilishapiga hesabu zake na inafanya vitu vyake kulingana na hesabu zake, Fwateni yenu!

WaKenya watu wa ajabu. Watu hatari. Watu wa kutumia akili. Watu wa kuona mbele. DANGER!

Sijui hawa hufikiria Kenya hakuna taratibu, ni kufanya vitu kiholelaholela. Itabidi watii.

Nice excerpt Kafrican [emoji1490] . Very educative

 

[mwaswast]

Kwanini? Itakuwa kubwa kuliko bandari zote Western of Indian ocean. SGR inayojengwa inahitaji mzigo wa maana.

Bagamoyo Port ni the biggest white elephant Western of Indian ocean

Tafuta level ya ku-argue nayo mi si size yako!

Kidzude kakuuliza swali Hadi wa Leo hujajibu na alikuwa sahihi ila kwa vazi zako za kijani CCM hungeona.

Bagamoyo will be Shenzhen read the article n get the meaning. There is nothing about underutilization considering the country is a mining giant itself aside more EPZ zones to be put up.

Vipi Shenzhen ya Bagamoyo 😂😂😂

 

[spencer]

Bagamoyo Port ni the biggest white elephant Western of Indian ocean

Kidzude kakuuliza swali Hadi wa Leo hujajibu na alikuwa sahihi ila kwa vazi zako za kijani CCM hungeona.

Vipi Shenzhen ya Bagamoyo [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Mkabidhi miradi ya watu, huwa tukostuka tunapiga chini na sisi kuwapa masharti sio mnaingizwa kichwa kichwa kama SGR lenyu chakavu

 

[eliakeem]

Mkabidhi miradi ya watu, huwa tukostuka tunapiga chini na sisi kuwapa masharti sio mnaingizwa kichwa kichwa kama SGR lenyu chakavu

Ukiangalia term sheet ya ule mkopo wa SGR kimini ya kenya., machozi yanaweza kukutoka. yaani wamesaini maradhi tupu.

 

[Depay]

Bagamoyo White elephant itazaa lini?

 

[asvptx]

Ukiangalia term sheet ya ule mkopo wa SGR kimini ya kenya., machozi yanaweza kukutoka. yaani wamesaini maradhi tupu.

Haha hebu nasi tujuze hiyo "term sheet" machozi yatutoke. Inaonekana unajua mengi ambayo wakenya hawajui. Au ni mmomoNYOKO wa mdomo mkuu? 😅

 

[Ukwaju]

Unapokuwa hujui financiers halafu wakwanza ku-crash the project nashindwa jinsi ya kukujibu! Sorry tafuta level yako! Au make use of google first n come n engage urself in this discussion.

Tafuta level ya ku-argue nayo mi si size yako!

unamajigambo ya KIBOYA kweli Geza Ulole
hilo jina tu la kijiji cha ujamaa kilichosadikika
unataka tukusadiki na Bagamoyo wewe km sio nduguyi basi ni kabila moja kanda ya kati kongwa
sasa tafuteni njia nyingine kutudanganya

 

[eliakeem]

Haha hebu nasi tujuze hiyo "term sheet" machozi yatutoke. Inaonekana unajua mengi ambayo wakenya hawajui. Au ni mmomoNYOKO wa mdomo mkuu? 😅

Kuna vitu vingine bora usivione. Maana ni maumivu tu. Hivi hata unajua ya kuwa kuna ghost company iliyo lease ndege KQ na nyingine inaoperate SGR!!?