East African Federation (EAF) public Views

[Unregistered]

You claim not to hate Kenyans yet; they have been called arrogant.... i think Tanzanians' confuse Confidence for arrogance. Of course we are saying everyone will benefit Kenya Uganda and Tanzania..

Envoy for good governance and ethics

Elizabeth,

True theres safety in numbers but will that safety be to all or just some of the members? Umoja ni nguvu, yes but nguvu kwa nani? kenya pekee au kwetu sote? And why has it suddenly become important? It was not in 1977, when Kenya brought it down. The reasons are well known, kenya wants all and nothing for anybody else. Nguvu and Safety in numbers are better built through shared benefits! They are more sustainable!

And we do not hate kenyas at all, we are just suprised how kenyans can be so abusive to our leaders!!

proud tanzanian

 

[Unregistered]

Wait until you see how abusive they are to THEIR leaders

 

[Unregistered]

Define abusive?
I think we are democratic in the sense that we can tell our leaders when we believe their are BS us!!! as opposed to being oppressed and being silent when we clearly can tell that we are being taken for a ride!!!

Wait until you see how abusive they are to THEIR leaders

 

[Unregistered]

Nadhani mumemsikia au kumsoma wenyewe namna mkenya alivyo "arrogant". Anasema Kenya ni super power ya Afrika Mshariki. Anasema kuwa watanzania kazi yetu ni kukaa chini ya minazi kusubiri ruzuku ya serikali kama ilivyokuwa wakati wa vijiji vya ujamaa. Anasema kuwa katika eneo hili la Afrika mashariki inayofahamika ni Kenya tu iwe michezoni na kadhalika. Huyo ni Mkenya halisi na lugha yao siku zote.

Lakini Mkenya huyo hakusema upande wa pili kwamba wao pia ni wezi; kwamba katika jiji la Nairobi pamoja na kuwepo mjumba mazuri ya ghorofa pia kuna nyumba za maboksi; ambapo watu huweka vinyesi kwenye mifuko ya plastiki kwani hawana vyoo; kwamba wizi wa Kenya pia upo katika fikra zao ambapo ukipanda Kenya Airways unapoingia Tanzania huwa hawasemi kuwa sasa unaingia Tanzania isipokuwa utasikia tu upande ule wa kushoto au kulia kuna mlima Kilimanjaro ili abiria wafahamu kuwa Mlima Kilimanjaro upo Kenya.

Mkenya huyo licha ya kuikashifu Tanzania hajazungumzia umaskini mkubwa uliopo Kenya. Hao ndio Wakenya wanaotaka Shirikisho la Afrika Mashariki kwa manufaa yao ya kiuchumi na kibiashara.

Je, mnawataka Wakenya hao? Hiyo ndiyo sura yao halisi. Lugha ya jeuri na majivuno kwamba wao wamesoma sana na kwamba watanzania hupeleka watoto huko Kenya. Ni kweli watanzania hupeleka watoto wao huko Kenya na pia Uganda, kwa hiyo kwa Wakenya hiyo ni sifa tosha kweli kweli. Wao ni Super Power.

Nawathibitishieni wao ni super power katika wizi na "arrogance". Vipi Kijeshi? Sina hakika na hilo, pengine pia ni Super power. Labda siku moja wakati wa Shirikisho tutakuja ona ni nani super power kati ya tanzania na Kenya, kwani kwa maoni yangu kama ndio tabia hii ya wakenya ya kuwadharau watanzania itaendelezwa ndani ya shirikisho ni lazima litajitokeza jambo na hapo ndipo super power wa kweli atakapofahamika. Wakenya hao waje, Tanzania na watamke lugha hiyo vijijini ndani ya Tanzania waseme nyie watanzania hamjasoma, hapo ndipo watatambua maana ya kuzuia ulimi wao.

mzalendo halisi

 

[Unregistered]

East Africans

I am getting concerned about the level of debate being carried on this forum. One would expect it to be about concrete issues and not who is arrogant or sits under a coconut tree to wait for madafu.

There are many issues that East Africans can consider to enable them meet the challenges confronting them under the globalising world. Who is not aware that East Africa was more robust in the sixties and actually showed the way to regional integration which the EU has now taken as a strategy to unite Europe and make it an global economic force.

It is important to understand what would happen under an East African Fedration. People from Kenya and Uganda would not necessarily flood into Tanzania to take land. It has been known that the engine for real growth will not be agriculture but industry and services. It is quite likely that many Tanzanians will move to Kenya and Uganda because of the developed infrastructure, industry and services.

The main issue is that honest people will be free to invest their money, use their skills and freely move across the larger region without barriers. That is how Europe developed. That is how America developed.

Let the East Africans see what they harvest from each arrangement. EAC will fast track development as charity begins at home. On the wider African groupings like SADC, it will take time to rerach the levels that EAC has already attained and if one has not mastered the art of negotiating and sharing equitably, we might see another bactracking.

East Africans should not fear each other and they should note how the old Makerere comrades have worked together even as they wane from the vanguard in the three countries.

 

[saladinn]

i see my democratic tanzanian neighbours have censored my reply.

i find i ironic you call my country men arrogant,but here you are,not just squashing free speech because its not convinient for your "very patriotic 'website.you call kenyans arrogant and here you are boasting

"At least TZ is coming back to its feet to be led by rule of law. But KE and UG is controlled by bullets and political drives. That would not be a conducive place for EAFU".

and this dude doesnt have any idea about kenyan society and politcs.yes,we have big slums in Nairobi,kibera infact the biggest in africa.if u did your homework well,you would realize it stem from foreigners;the sudanese nubia during colonial rule.

you talk about stable politics.kenyans have held referendums,we foam coalitions (how many african countires have advanced to this level?) meanwhile,you are still being ruled by CCM.and u question our stability while your union with Zanzibar iz on shaky ground.let us not forget the fast coup in africa happened in tanzania.

if u read your history well,you would realize mount kilimanjaro waz originally in kenya but given to germans by the british as a concession in the after spoils of the first world war.do you see us kenyans cry over that?

you talk of land this land that.ndungu zangu jirani,its not land that will make tanzania prosperous and economically sound.you have it now but you havent done much with it,have you?japan is a tiny country,britain is an island.top five world economies.why?industry,work ethic,service,competition,management,education,policy.thats what makes a country great.you keep blaming kenyans for all your problems.

socialism made you less aggressive in the pursuit of individual economic prosperity.mnaelewa?julius nyerere called hyenas but the fact capitalism works.why kenya is advanced and tanzania is not.why america prospered and russia failed.these are facts.

and one more thing,tanzanians and ugandans ahve always been welcomed to live and invest in kenya.we always welcome competition in kenya and market diversity.we are never afraid of new challenges.thats why Nairobi stock exchange is the third most important in the continent after johannesburg and cairo.if you want to buy land and build houses,adapt and settle,you are welcome.we dont hate "foreigners".as a matter of fact,while you impose tarriffs on us and give us negative media publicity and kick kenyan workers out of tanzania,we tend to ignore.

dont taint the legendary fame of tanzanian courtesy and politeness because you fear a "kenyan invasion".we are all east africans here.

 

[saladinn]

I SEE SOMEONE IS CALLING KENYANS POOR.poorer than tanzanians,infact we willleach into your resources.look at the figures my friends.stop making me doubt your intellect.

these are facts;

KENYA
GDP - per capita (PPP
$1,100 (2005 est.)
TANZANIA
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$700 (2005 est.)

KENYA
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$37.15 billion (2005 est.)
TANZANIA
0% (2005 est.)

KENYA
GDP - real growth rate
5.2% (2005 est.)
TANZANIA
GDP - real growth rate

GDP (purchasing power parity
$27.07 billion (2005 est.)

KENYA
Military expenditures - dollar figure
$280.5 million (2005 est.)

TANZANIA
Military expenditures - dollar figure
$21.2 million (2005 est.)

KENYA
Television broadcast stations:
8 (2002)

TANZANIA
Television broadcast stations:
3 (2002)

KENYA
Debt - external
$7.391 billion

TANZANIA
Debt - external
$8.178 billion

KENYA
Exports:
$3.173 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.)

TANZANIA
Exports:
$1.581 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.)

KENYA
Public debt:
50.2% of GDP (2005 est.)
TANZANIA
65.8% of GDP (2005 est.)
Public debt

KENYA
Budget:
revenues: $3.715 billion
expenditures: $3.88 billion; including capital expenditures of $NA (2005 est.)
TANZANIA
Budget:
revenues: $2.235 billion
expenditures: $2.669 billion; including capital expenditures of $NA (2005 est.)

 

[Unregistered]

There is no need for a contest match over who is better or worse,poorer or richer ,stronger or weaker etc .What we need is discussion free of biases.It is only an uneducated mind that openly displays its bias.

What I know having lived in the three countries is that where as KE and UG are forging ahead with development having identified their SWOT,TZ is still reeling in self denial.They want to blame their problems on others and are over protective (Xenophobic).They wouild rather trust indian expertriates and south africans (Whites)than their fellow East Africans,Inspite of the latter being more qualified and cheaper.They simply do not want to accept that fellow blacks are more qualified than them(inferiority complex).

I challenge them to travel to kenya and Uganda and elsewhere to get more exposure. some of the comments in this forum exhibit a high level of ignorance. I however do have a lot of respect for young tanzanians who are coming out of the universities and who have accepted the problems at hand in their country.they are the hope for the future.

Let us use this forum for intellectual ,insightful issues of mutual benefit rather than for pouring diabolical diatribe and bigotry.

No man is an Island .we all need each other .No man is perfect.we should work together inpite of our short comings.

 

[Unregistered]

Mtandao huu unaleta maana kwa sababu kila mzalendo anaweza kutoa maoni yake bila hofu. Licha ya hayo, tuna wajibu wa kutoa maoni ya kujenga wala sio kukashifu upande wowote. Uzalendo halisi ni ule unaoleta maendeleo na sio kudumaza. Tuchukulie kwa mfano nchi ya Merikani. Walio uendeleza na kujenga sio wazawa bali ni jamii ya watu wlioishi pamoja kwa kufanya kazi kwa bidii na mashindano (capitalism).

Watanzania hawana sababu yeyote ya kuhofu kuja kwa Mkenay, Mganda Mhindi au mtu yeyote mgeni kufanya biashara au kazi. Tukitazama kwa upande wa kazi, Mtanzania ana nafasi nzuri sana kufaulu kupata kazi kutokana na sababu kadha:
1. Ni mzawa kwa hivyo haitaji kibali (dola 600)
2. Yupo nyumbani na kampuni haina majukumu makubwa kwake
3. Anaweza kufanya kazi mda mrefu bila kwenda likizo ya mara kwa mara kwa vile familia nzima wako karibu.
4. Ni mzoefu wa mji kwa hivyo gharana ya maisha iko chini kwake
5. Ni mzawa kwahivyo anaweza kuongoza wenzake kwa ufasaha
6. Ni mzawa kwahivyo anauwezo wa kutafuta biashara kwa urahisi.
na sababu nyinginezo.
Kitakacho mkwamisha mtanzania ni :
1. Ujuji
2. Utiifu
3. Bidii kazini
4. Kujitole kufundisha wenzetu
5. Kujiendeleza kimasomo kazini.( tusiridhike na nafasi tulio nao)

Licha ya hayo, sio kila mtanzania anauwezo wa kwenda kenya na kujifunza kuto kwao. Mbona wasije na tujifunze kwa mda mfupi ili wapate ushindani wa kutosha na wao wenyewe watatoroka.
"Every cloud has a silver linning", mtanzania anaye jiamini hawezi kuhofia wageni na ndio maana kila siku tunaangaika kwenda merikani, afrika kusini ili tushindane nao huko kwao.je ukipata nafasi kufanya kazi nje ya nchi utaiacha?

Naomba mjadili hili swala kwa upeo ya msomi.Vijana wengi wanafuzu chuoni na hao wakenya watakipata ushindani. 'Arrogance' yafaa ingangaliwe kwa undani sana. Umsome mtu hata mwili wake (body language) kabla ya kutoa uamuzi. Merikani ukiambiwa 'go to hell' si kuwa uende jehanamu bali ni kuwa hakubaliani na mawazo yako. is that arrogance. Naomba tusaidiane kwa hili jambo na kila mtu afaidike. Wachache walio na hofu huenda waka waharibia wengi walio na nia nzuri. (personal ambitions are dangerous to development)

Mzalendo jasiri wa Afrika mashariji .

Nadhani mumemsikia au kumsoma wenyewe namna mkenya alivyo "arrogant". Anasema Kenya ni super power ya Afrika Mshariki. Anasema kuwa watanzania kazi yetu ni kukaa chini ya minazi kusubiri ruzuku ya serikali kama ilivyokuwa wakati wa vijiji vya ujamaa. Anasema kuwa katika eneo hili la Afrika mashariki inayofahamika ni Kenya tu iwe michezoni na kadhalika. Huyo ni Mkenya halisi na lugha yao siku zote.

Lakini Mkenya huyo hakusema upande wa pili kwamba wao pia ni wezi; kwamba katika jiji la Nairobi pamoja na kuwepo mjumba mazuri ya ghorofa pia kuna nyumba za maboksi; ambapo watu huweka vinyesi kwenye mifuko ya plastiki kwani hawana vyoo; kwamba wizi wa Kenya pia upo katika fikra zao ambapo ukipanda Kenya Airways unapoingia Tanzania huwa hawasemi kuwa sasa unaingia Tanzania isipokuwa utasikia tu upande ule wa kushoto au kulia kuna mlima Kilimanjaro ili abiria wafahamu kuwa Mlima Kilimanjaro upo Kenya.

Mkenya huyo licha ya kuikashifu Tanzania hajazungumzia umaskini mkubwa uliopo Kenya. Hao ndio Wakenya wanaotaka Shirikisho la Afrika Mashariki kwa manufaa yao ya kiuchumi na kibiashara.

Je, mnawataka Wakenya hao? Hiyo ndiyo sura yao halisi. Lugha ya jeuri na majivuno kwamba wao wamesoma sana na kwamba watanzania hupeleka watoto huko Kenya. Ni kweli watanzania hupeleka watoto wao huko Kenya na pia Uganda, kwa hiyo kwa Wakenya hiyo ni sifa tosha kweli kweli. Wao ni Super Power.

Nawathibitishieni wao ni super power katika wizi na "arrogance". Vipi Kijeshi? Sina hakika na hilo, pengine pia ni Super power. Labda siku moja wakati wa Shirikisho tutakuja ona ni nani super power kati ya tanzania na Kenya, kwani kwa maoni yangu kama ndio tabia hii ya wakenya ya kuwadharau watanzania itaendelezwa ndani ya shirikisho ni lazima litajitokeza jambo na hapo ndipo super power wa kweli atakapofahamika. Wakenya hao waje, Tanzania na watamke lugha hiyo vijijini ndani ya Tanzania waseme nyie watanzania hamjasoma, hapo ndipo watatambua maana ya kuzuia ulimi wao.

mzalendo halisi

 

[MtuKwao]

There is no need for a contest match over who is better or worse,poorer or richer ,stronger or weaker etc .What we need is discussion free of biases.It is only an uneducated mind that openly displays its bias.

What I know having lived in the three countries is that where as KE and UG are forging ahead with development having identified their SWOT,TZ is still reeling in self denial.They want to blame their problems on others and are over protective (Xenophobic).They wouild rather trust indian expertriates and south africans (Whites)than their fellow East Africans,Inspite of the latter being more qualified and cheaper.They simply do not want to accept that fellow blacks are more qualified than them(inferiority complex).
I challenge them to travel to kenya and Uganda and elsewhere to get more exposure. some of the comments in this forum exhibit a high level of ignorance.
I however do have a lot of respect for young tanzanians who are coming out of the universities and who have accepted the problems at hand in their country.they are the hope for the future.

Let us use this forum for intellectual ,insightful issues of mutual benefit rather than for pouring diabolical diatribe and bigotry.
No man is an Island .we all need each other .No man is perfect.we should work together inpite of our short comings.

Agree, a contest of whos great, weak ... is useless, everybody is strong ... and weak ... it depends.

And agree, we need each other, without which we become irrelevant at some point, strong or weak! The important thing is to have a federation that benefits all! you could say of course it will benefits all on paper, but if history is anything to go by, starting with the collapsed EAC, tanzanians have reasons to be warry of kenyans.

Kenyans are prepared for federation while we are not. Going into federation will just have all resources and jobs and what not getting taken away by kenyans. and you know what? sooner disgrantled tanzanians will trully start hating kenyans in their country, and lasting seeds of disharmony are sowed. Which may eat into what you call progress ...

 

[Nego]

Tuungane Africa Mashariki...kuogopana ndugu zangu haifai kabisa...kama wakenya ni wazuri, basi mimi nafikiri ndio sababu nzuri zaidi ya sisi kuwakubalia waje.

Marekani imeendelea sana licha ya kuwa kubali wageni...tena ukiwa mzuri ndi kabisa wataharakisha uungane nao. Kwa hiyo kwangu mimi naona umoja wetu ni Bora zaidi kama tukishirikiana....wakenya watuambukize ujasirialiamali, sisi wa-TZ tuwaambukize amani, etc

 

[Unregistered]

Tuungane Africa Mashariki...kuogopana ndugu zangu haifai kabisa...kama wakenya ni wazuri, basi mimi nafikiri ndio sababu nzuri zaidi ya sisi kuwakubalia waje; Marekani imeendelea sana licha ya kuwa kubali wageni...tena ukiwa mzuri ndi kabisa wataharakisha uungane nao. Kwa hiyo kwangu mimi naona umoja wetu ni Bora zaidi kama tukishirikiana....wakenya watuambukize ujasirialiamali, sisi wa-TZ tuwaambukize amani, etc

Ndugu yangu, hapo umenena. watu wote sio sawa. and there's no way a patriotic individual will accept the shortcomings inherent in his or her country. the three east african countries are unique in their own ways, and i believe this will be an added advantage for all. the tanzanians can show us kenyans the way of being polite as we show the the way of being confident and go-getting (not arrogant my tanzanian friend), while the ugandans will bring all their enterprising spirit into the federation.

we need to move beyond our mistrust. we need each other, whether we like it or not. and there is nothing wrong with wanting to progress. it's either we progress or die out in this world of today. natilia mkazo the fact that with the global economy being what it is, we have to unite in order to remain relevant in this world. who told you that the european nations in the EU love each other? they don't but they understand the importance of putting all these bravado stuff aside and dealing with real life. let's do that for the sake of the future generations of east africans.!

elizabeth - an east african at heart.

 

[Unregistered]

I been watching this poll closely. Seems like the EAC haters are losing with every passing day. Could the current power cuts be responsible for this?Anyways, stop hating and be good neighbours.

Ultranationalism is so not cool.

 

[Unregistered]

Tanzania does not like EAC yet they have become a backyard South African supermarket

 

[Unregistered]

I like this debate although it appears some of us are being carried away. We have to be serious in this debate. We should argue intelligently. Many of us have seen inside of a book hence our arguments should reflect that. There are many fundamental issues which should be raised and discussed. For example why federation? Which format should it take? Should we take or emulate Nigerian Federation? What about Russian Federation? The United States of America is a Federal (?) State. Should we borrow from them in our East African Federation?

We understand the process of full regional integration in East Africa has four phases. As of now we are just in the first phase that is customs union. Common market will follow, then monetary union and finallly the federation.

One thing which surprises me is that we are discussing the federal phase while we are yet to realise the fruits of the first phase (customs union). Is this proper? Are we really serious? How far are we sure that everything will go to plan regarding the initial stages of our integration? I have a feeling that our politicians in this region are taking us for a ride? We are being told (by the politicians) that EAC integration should be driven by people. This is only theoretical. As it is we are repeating the same past mistates. Politicians are dictating the process and not the people. We should not put the cart in front of the horse. If they have decided that there will be a federation why then involve common people in this discussion?

To me what is important in this region is to have a vibrant economy. Federation is secondary. We should focus on our economies. We should work together on how to integrate our economies, that is the crux of the matter. Political federation is a far fetched idea. If our economies are strong and have been integrated as one economy the political federation will follow automatically and naturally. There is no reason for fast tracking now. What for?

Tanzanian

 

[Unregistered]

Hakuna lolote Tanzania inachotaka kwenye EAF zaidi ya misifa isiyo na maana.

Kikwete will be the worst president Tanzania had if he allows TZ to join EAF.

Wakenya wanataka land na natural resources za TZ
M7 anataka kutawala TZ
Rwanda / Burundi wanataka land na utawala wa TZ

Ni wazimu mtupu kwa Tanzania kujiunga na EAF kwa sasa.

Hivi usalama wa taifa kazi yao hasa nini?

 

[suleiman B.changuru]

hi, mimi binafsi naweza kusema kuwa ni vyema wakajiunga ili tuweze kuwasaidia katika maswala mbali mbali ya kibiashara,amani katika mataifa yao,kama mwasisi wetu Baba wa Taifa letu Alivyokuwa mpenda Amani katika Bara letu la Afrika.na istoshe wao pia mungu Baba mbinguni anawapenda waishi kwa Amani bila ya mafarakano. mimi nasema ni sawa(ndiyo)

 

[Unregistered]

Dear friends

I have read someone saying mt. Kilimanjaro was part of Kenya. Sincerely this should not be part of our debate. What about if someone tells you that the northern part of kenya was part of Somalia?

Someone has come out with economic statistics which shows kenya is above Tanzania in almost everything. But he has missed the reasoning that the GDP might be higher but real wealth mayt be concetrated to only few people leaving the majority with nothing, and this is the case in Kenya.

But the real issue is that Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda are all poor. So, we should fight to eradicate poverty in our countries. Tutafanya hivyo kwa ushirikiano wa kiuchumi; kwa kuongeza ushindani miongoni mwetu; na kupanua soko letu; kubuni na kuimarisha teknolojia. Takwimu zinazoonyesha kuwa bajeti ya Kenya kijeshi ni kubwa kuliko ya Tanzania hazina maana. Tutajuaje ikiwa takwimu hizo ni kwa manufaa ya wachache?

What is important for we east Africans is that we should respect each other. Kenyans should not be worried about the number of anti-EAC in Tanzania. You should remember even the referendum in France, Sweden and England (?) rejected European Union. The British do not like the East Europeans to come and grab their jobs in Britain. So one country being anti-regional integration is not a new phenomenon. It has happened elsewhere in this world. Tanzanians are not exception.

By the way there haven't been a referendum in Tanzania to show that tanzania is against EAC. Huwezi kuwachukulia watu wachache wanaofanya mjadala kwenye mtandao ndio useme watanzania kwa ujumla wake hawataki EAC. Huo ni ufinyu wa mawazo. Regional integration is about stimulating development. Tanzanians like development, so do Kenyans and Ugandans. Tunataka maendeleo ya haraka, na tutafanya hivyo kwa ushirikiano wa kiuchumi na kibiashara. As for political federation I dont know if it is the right time to have this debate. Yaani hata kwenye umoja wa ushuru wa forodha (customs union) hatujapiga hatua tunaanza kupiga kelele kuhusu shirikisho, sijui sisi waafrika tukoje.

mtanzania

 

[suleiman B. changuru]

Hi, ok ishould say that yes(ndiyo)

 

[Unregistered]

Who is the Tanzanian behind Tanzania joining EAF?

Why does he / she want TZ joining EAF?

We are not fools. Tanzania has awakened up. Not anymore they can drag us.

Big NO to EAF.

(Well... Federation can go on, Four Contries -- Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi) Forget about Tanzania.