God existed before time and He created time

[Tz mbongo]

Mungu ni mawazo yaliyopo kichwani mwako wala hayupo

Na hizo ni hadithi waliosemezana watu wa kale na ndio utakuja kuona huyo mungu anapewa sifa kubwa wakati hakuna anachokijua

Kwakuwa mungu ametungwa ndio maana wapo wengi sana

Kama hizo hadithi walihadithiana watu wa kale iweje hadi leo bado zinasimuliwa? Je,tatizo ni kuwa hadithi za kale au hadithi yenyewe ndio sababu ya kuendelea kuwepo hadi leo?

 

[bigmind]

Naomba nikuulize what's time?? What make time to be there???

Ukinijibu hili swali nitaendelea na maelezo ya ziada.

Habarini wa GT.
Kumekuwa na mgongano wa mawazo kuhusu uwepo na ithibati ya Mungu.Naomba niseme ya kuwa mgongano huu haujaanza leo wala jana bali ni karne kwa karne zimeshapita. Nitaanza kwa kusimulia visa kadhaa kabla ya kujenga hoja.
Mwanafalsafa Plutarch(myunani) aliyekufa mwaka 120b.c na mwandishi wa habari za wayunani na warumi katika kitabu chake kinachoitwa "Parallel lives of illustrious Greek and Romans"aliandika ya kuwa Kuna miji isiyo na kuta, wala vitabu isiyo na mfalme, wala nyumba wala hazina wala mahala pa kuchezea michezo; Lakini hakuna mji usiokuwa na hekalu la Mungu(mungu fulani) hakuna mji huo na hutapata kuuona.

Mwana sayansi wa elimu ya viumbe Athanasius Kirchner(1601-1680) alikuwa na rafiki yake ambaye alikuwa anapinga uwepo wa Mungu. Kuna siku huyu rafiki alimtembelea Kirchner, Alikuta Kirchner ameshika tufe lenye sura ya dunia, kutokana na ustadi uliotumika kulifanya tufe hilo Jamaa akamuliza Kirchner"Nani aliyeufanya mfano wa dunia hivi? Kirchner akajibu Hakuna mtu, umejifanya wenyewe.Jamaa akasema acha kunichekesha aliyeufanya mfano huu lazima awe mstadi mkubwa, Jinsi gani Kirchner akahoji? Hutaki kukubali ya kuwa mfano huu dhaifu wa tufe la dunia umejifanya wenyewe lakini unakazana kuwa dunia hii kubwa (universe) umejifanya wenyewe.
Kuna watu wa aina bado wapo.

WHAT'S INVISIBLE THAT CREATES WHAT'S VISIBLE.

Kama kitu hakithibitishiki kwa milango ya fahamu (pua,ulimi, macho, ngozi,masikio) haifanyi kitu hicho kisiwepo.Kuna ya vitu hauwezi kuthibitisha kupitia milango ya fahamu lakini vipo katika mazingira yetu.Ili kuthibitisha uwepo wa mambo/vitu hivyo tuna angalia athari yake (Low of course and effect)Hapa nitaweka baadhi vitu/mambo hayo ili kuelewa vizuri low hii.
These facts are not all of one kind, some are material and some are non material. We shall mention here a few of them.
Electricity, Gravitation, Magnetism, Invisible radiation, Intelligence, Love, Hate, Determination. and so on.......
Hivi ni baadhi ya vitu/mambo hatuwezi kuthibitisha kwa milango yetu ya fahamu lakini vipo, Tunamini vipo kwasababu ya athari zake.
Kwa hiyo; hoja ya kuwa Mungu hayupo kwa kuwa hatuwezi kumthibitisha kwa milango yetu ya fahamu inakufa/haina uhai kwa scenario hii.
Mungu hujibainisha kwa viumbe wake kupitia alama/sign mbalimbali rejea paragraph za juu hapo(matukio hayo mawili).

Karibuni

 

[Pure_sapiens]

Time is illusion, kama hakuna tukio hakuna muda.Kabla Mungu hajanza kuumba hakukuwa na muda/time alivyoanza tu creations na muda uka exist. So muda na tukio ni vitu ambavyo hufungani

Naomba nikuulize what's time?? What make time to be there???

Ukinijibu hili swali nitaendelea na maelezo ya ziada.

 

[masoud mshahara]

usitake kukwepesha mada,ni maji ya matope.maji machafu4
mohamed kasapoti jua kuzama kwenye bwawa la maji ya mtope
hadith sunan abu dawud 3991

Hii hadithi tumeijadili sana ni DHAIFU kwasababu kuna hadithi nyingi zinaelezea tukio hilo lakina matope hakuna kwahiyo inapingana na wenzie hiyo ni DHAIFU kabisa, halafu kule kwenye QURAN umeelewa umeamia kwenye hadithi sasa endelea kuruka ruka

 

[masoud mshahara]

sijawahi kusema nimeongea na muumba
huna jibu...kwaheri

Na bahati nzuri sijawai kukuuliza hilo jambo ,kwahiyo unajishtukia tusalimie uendako

 

[nyabhingi]

Hii hadithi tumeijadili sana ni DHAIFU kwasababu kuna hadithi nyingi zinaelezea tukio hilo lakina matope hakuna kwahiyo inapingana na wenzie hiyo ni DHAIFU kabisa, halafu kule kwenye QURAN umeelewa umeamia kwenye hadithi sasa endelea kuruka ruka

kwa hiyo hadith unazikataa?
maji ya matope,bwawa la maji machafu is the same thing
basi tuseme kwenye bwawa

 

[masoud mshahara]

kwa hiyo hadith unazikataa?
maji ya matope,bwawa la maji machafu is the same thing
basi tuseme kwenye bwawa

Kama ufahamu kwenye uislamu kuna hadithi DHAIFU na Hadithi sahihi ni suala la kitaaluma njoo darasani upewe elimu wacha kubwabwaja usiyo yajua utaonekana mwehu

 

[nyabhingi]

Kama ufahamu kwenye uislamu kuna hadithi DHAIFU na Hadithi sahihi ni suala la kitaaluma njoo darasani upewe elimu wacha kubwabwaja usiyo yajua utaonekana mwehu

hadith za kwenye sahih bukhari unazikubali au huzikubali?

 

[masoud mshahara]

hadith za kwenye sahih bukhari unazikubali au huzikubali?

Iwe bukhari, iwe muslim iwe abu dawud utaalamu wa usahihi na udhaifu huko pale pale kijana

 

[nyabhingi]

Iwe bukhari, iwe muslim iwe abu dawud utaalamu wa usahihi na udhaifu huko pale pale kijana

hadith gani kwako ni sahihi?

 

[MSILOMBO]

kama unaijua biblia na quran vizuri nitakwambia tatizo lao
kuna never resolve consistency/contradictions ambazo zinafanya vile vitabu viwe vichekesho
kwa kubase tu kwenye maandiko yao inatosha kuona kuwa hiyo miungu yao ni uzushi
unajua ingekuwa rahisi kuelezea miungu yao kama wasingeweka kwenye maandishi
maandishi yao ni vituko vitupu (kwa mtu anayevichambua kwa uhuru wa kifikra)

Thibitisha maneno yako juu ya kitab cha Qur'an

 

[masoud mshahara]

hadith gani kwako ni sahihi?

1.Isipingane na QURAN
2.wapokezi wake wawe ni swahaba watiifu kwa mtume
3.kama wameeleza hadithi moja maswahaba wawili tunachukua kauli ya yule swahaba aliekaribu zaidi na mtume
N.K yapo mengi hayo ni kwa uchache hii ni somo kama masomo mengine kaa chini jifunze wacha ujuaji

 

[nyabhingi]

Thibitisha maneno yako juu ya kitab cha Qur'an

1. What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
   1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
   2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
   3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
   4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
   5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
   6. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
   7. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
   8. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
   9. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132

 

[MSILOMBO]

1. What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
   1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
   2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
   3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
   4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
   5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
   6. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
   7. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
   8. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
   9. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132

Tumia kiswahili ndugu

 

[nyabhingi]

1.Isipingane na QURAN
2.wapokezi wake wawe ni swahaba watiifu kwa mtume
3.kama wameeleza hadithi moja maswahaba wawili tunachukua kauli ya yule swahaba aliekaribu zaidi na mtume
N.K yapo mengi hayo ni kwa uchache hii ni somo kama masomo mengine kaa chini jifunze wacha ujuaji

nipe hadith ambazo wewe unaona ni sahihi tuzitumie kama rejea hapa
najua na wewe unajua kuwa hadith za sahih bukhari ndio zinatumiwa na waislamu wote duniani

 

[nyabhingi]

Tumia kiswahili ndugu

angalia hizo aya halafu kazisome kwenye quran ya kiswahili

 

[MSILOMBO]

angalia hizo aya halafu kazisome kwenye quran ya kiswahili

Mchakato tenaaa potelea potee nipee moja lililo kukaaa moyoni haswaa alaf hayo mengine tutaenda kdg kdg

 

[nyabhingi]

Mchakato tenaaa potelea potee nipee moja lililo kukaaa moyoni haswaa alaf hayo mengine tutaenda kdg kdg

mkuu acha uvivu

 

[Anikajema]

Ahsante kwa kunitajia Plutarch. Hivyo vitabu viwili vyote ninavyo na nimevisoma. Umenirudisha kuangalia kabati langu la vitabu vya historia ya enzi hizo.

Plutarch alikuwa mwanahistoria mzuri sana, hata Shakespeare alipoandika tamthiliya na michezo yake kuhusu Warumi, alimtumia Plutarch sana.

Tunaweza kusema Plutarch ni Shakespeare wa Shakespeare, kwa wasiomjua, lakini wanajua umuhimu wa Shakespeare, hilo linaweza kumuelezea umuhimu wake.

Lakini hilo halimfanyi Plutarch awe hawezi kukosea. Kuna mengi sana hakuyajua ambyao sisi tunayajua.

Habari ya kitu kujifanya chenyewe au kutojifanya chenyewe haithibitishi uwepo wa Mungu.

Kwa sababu, hata kama ulimwengu haiwezekani kuwa umejifanya wenyewe, hilo halimaanishi automatically kwamba umefanywa na Mungu.

Inawezekana ulimwengu haujajiumba wenyewe, na wala haujaumbwa na Mungu.

Na narudia tena, habari ya "kitu complex lazima kina aliyekifanya" inatuonesha Mungu hawezi kuwepo, kwa sababu Mungu naye ni complex na atahitaji muumbaji wake, na muumbaji wake atahitaji muumbaji wake, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

View attachment 906505


Sijapinga uwepo wa Mungu kwa sababu haonekani, hagusiki, hanusiki etc.

Napinga uwepo wa Mungu (mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote) kwa sababu dhana ya kuwepo kwake ina contradiction.

The problem of evil poses a big contradiction for this God idea.

Naona unapenda vitabu, tena vitabu classic kama vya Plutarch. Mtu anayenitajia Plutarch mara moja namuangalia kama anafuatilia usomi.

Tuendeleze usomi, kujadiliana kwa usomi kunataka kusoma. Naomba tusome pamoja.

Naomba usome the attached book, kama hujakisoma, kinaitwa "The Philosophy of Religion: An Anthology", particularly see "PART IV The Problem of Evil page 276" in the attached book. If you haven't read and can read the entire book it will be even better, but the core of my critique is starting at "PART IV The Problem of Evil page 276"

Mungu hana contradiction Bali contradiction Ni mawazo yako mtafiti,,
Kweny saikolojia kuna kitu kinaitwa perception... Hii Ni mitzamo tofauti juu ya picha Moja... Kila MTU ana jinsi anavyomuona Mungu na Dunia na kila kilichopo so hata ww kusema Mungu ana contradiction kisaikolojia tunacoclude kwamba madai yako hayawez kuchukuliwa kuwa Ni sahihi kwasababu kwa upande mwingne kile unachoona hakipo sawa kwake kipo sawa na kinaeleweka na hata comment yako haiwez kusimama kama principal Maana ile Ni mawazo yako na si mawazo ya watu wote.

 

[nusuhela]

maelezo mazuri sama mkuu lakini watu wenye hoja dhaifu lazima wapingane na maelezo haya maana wameshaitengeneza akili yao kwamba Mungu hayupo, lakini ukweli ni kwamba Mungu yupo na ataendelea kuwepo nyakati zote.

Mungu ni idea iliyotengenezwa na mtu ili ije kuishi kwenye vichwa vyenu. Ndio maana mtu hawezi kujua habari za mungu bila kufundishwa.

Huwezi kunielewa kwakua lile lengo la walioanzisha hiyo idea ya mungu limetimia