Hatimaye mfumo wa Iron Dome kuwekwa katika eneo la Ghuba. Mzizi wa fitina kukatwa?

Hatimaye mfumo wa Iron Dome kuwekwa katika eneo la Ghuba. Mzizi wa fitina kukatwa?

Data Manager said:
Ni kwel chief nakuunga mkono kwenye mengi uloyasema .Hasa kwenye ishu ya diplomacy na engagement.U r absolutelly right.
But let us come back to iron dome perfomance specs.Do u really understands when we talk about efficiency of 90%. i assume u r aware that there is no machine of 100% efficiency/perfect machine.
So about this 10% inefficiency,do u think it is soo obvious to be taken advantage by attackers? It is unknown.. so it is not practical kwa maadui to sit and design the offensive weapons basing on the 10% inefficiency of their target.And yet even the rockets are not 100% efficient.

Ku critisize efficiency ya 80-90% ni ku dependon chances kitu ambacho si sawa
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Kama mtu anaweza kuua watu wengi kwa bio weapons, terrorism, hilo dome ni obsolete tayari.

Linaweza kuwa necessary kuzuia attacks za air, lakini unafikiri adui akijua umeziba dhidi ya air attacks kwa 90% efficiency - which we can say is impressive if proven to be actual - na adui akijua njia rahisi zaidi ni kuingia kwenye basi na kujilipua au kutega bomu, au kutumia bio weapon, unafikiri atatumia kombora litakalozuiwa na hilo dome?

I don't think so.
 
Kiranga said:
Sawa, but the Iron Dome should not be touted as some kind of armor of invincibility. It is not.

Mike Tyson famously said "Everybody has a plan, until they get punched in the face". Attacks mostly come from unexpected sources. Like 9/11. The so called "Fifth Risk" that you can't even think of today.

The best of these systems have an efficiency rate of 85 to 90%, what about the rest? That last 10% to 15%?

Most of the actors that can be stopped by these systems can be engaged diplomatically and stopped at a fractionnof the cost of keeping these systems.

What about terrorism and biological weapons?

The best and most cost effective defence is diplomacy and engagement.

If you prioritize technology, you will be surprised how vulnerable you can get.

A healthy dose of humility goes a long way.
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Biological weapons is not something new and intelligence offices the world over are full aware of formidable threats posed by such weapons. But one reality is that, as technology grows, adversaries are, on day basis, devising new ways to attack and fend for themselves.

Because of diversities of attacks, nations should develop counterveilling measures to absorb such challenges. This is why you see different nations resorting to different methods to up their security.

It cannot be over stated that, in most cases, technology is not 100 accurate and sometimes it can even misbehave.

But should the nations abandon developing weaponry and engage in peace talks along round tables? Given the current nature of geopolitics and how tumultuous they are, a wise nation would go for both. In the first prioritise peaceful talks and where this doesn't work, then let bullets, fighter jets and like convey the message loud and clear.
 
permanides said:
Biological weapons is not something new and intelligence offices the world over are full aware of formidable threats posed by such weapons. But one reality is that, as technology grows, adversaries are, on day basis, devising new ways to attack and fend for themselves.
Because of diversities of attacks, nations should develop counterveilling measures to absorb such challenges. This is why you see different nations resorting to different methods to up their security.
It cannot be over stated that, in most cases, technology is not 100 accurate and sometimes it can even misbehave.
But should the nations abandon developing weaponry and engage in peace talks along round tables? Given the current nature of geopolitics and how tumultuous they are, a wise nation would go for both. In the first prioritise peaceful talks and where this doesn't work, then let bullets, fighter jets and like convey the message loud and clear.
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I do not find anything substantial to disagree with in what you have conveyed.

My point is, in the quantitative analysis matrix to gauge cost benefit analysis, not only monetary, but also utilitarian wise, containment through diplomacy has far better returns than anything else.If the fundamental issues are not resolved, even with the Iron Dome, there is still a good risk of grieving parties blowing themselves up somewhere.

It is very hard to permanently and actively defend a large parameter. Socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living, I wonder on the quality of life drain due toa life on constant high alert. Maybe they are used to that in some parts of the world, but I wouldn't like to live like that.

Of course, that does not mean technologies such as the Iron Dome should be abandoned. I believe in security in layers.

Just because one has a locked door, that does not mean one should not employ an alarm system and cameras.

But the Iron Dome is a band aid. It is addressing a symptom, not the disease itself.

It is like using Cofta to treat a cough for a patient with TB. You can't cure TB by using Cofta. You are merely addressing the coughing, temporarily.

The disease itself can only be addressed by diplomacy.
 
RTI said:
Hivi huu mfumo si ndo ule ambao umeshindwa hata kuyadhibiti maroketi ya wahuni wa Hamas au ni mwingine?
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Si ndio hapo mkuu!! Mwaka jana makombora ya Iran yalilipua/haribu kambi mbili za kijeshi za Merikani huko Iraq - US ilikuwa ikidai kwamba kambi hizo zilikuwa zinalindwa na mfumo wa kisasa kabisa dhidi ya makombora na ndege za kivita - sasa swali ni: ilikuwaje tena makombora yaliyo vurumishwa kutoka Iran yakazidi kete air defense sysems za Kimerikani, makombora ya Iran yali hit intended targets with dead accuracy ndani ya kambi ya kijeshi - wanajeshi wengi walijeruhiwa na wengine kupoteza maisha,niliwahi kusoma chapisho fulani lililo sema kwamba kambi hizo mbili zilikuwa zinalindwa na latest defense systems ambazo ni impregnable,nafikiri kambi zilindwa na THAAD air defense system.

Tukija kwenye uwezo wa Iron Dome ambazo wanashirikiana na kampuni ya Raytheon ya huko Merikani kuunda Iron Dome - hata hivyo uwezo wake bado ni highly questionable, hasa baada ya kushindwa ku-intercept rocket zilizo rushwa na kikundi cha Hamasi kutokea Gaza, walivurumishwa roketi 670 lakini Iron Dome alifanikiwa kuharibu roketi mia mbili tu! Baadae Israel inaleta kisingizio cha kitoto eti software za Iron Dome zimekuwa programmed to intercept roketi zinazo lenga makazi ya watu na infrastructure tu, nyingine zina achwa ku-land kwenye sand dunes/jangwani - Uongo mtupu.
 
FRANC THE GREAT said:
Huo ulioshindwa ni upi na umeshindwaje?
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Mkuu huu mfumo ni dhaifu tu kama ulivyo mifumo mingine ya kimagharibi.

Hamas huwa wanaweza kurusha maroketi 100 lakini ukafanikiwa kiyaharibu maroketi hata 35 tu sema huwa hayaleti madhara makubwa kwa sababu yana uwezo mdogo wa kushababisha mlipuko.

sasa huoni ya kwamba huu ni udhaifu mkubwa?

Sasa kama unaonesha udhaifu mbele ya maroketi yanayo tengenezwa kienyeji, itaweza kuya dhibiti makombora yaliyo tengenezwa kwa teknolojia ya hali ya juu na yanayo tembea kwa kasi?
 
Bukyanagandi said:
Si ndio hapo mkuu!! Mwaka jana makombora ya Iran yalilipua/haribu kambi mbili za kijeshi za Merikani huko Iraq - US ilikuwa ikidai kwamba kambi hizo zilikuwa zinalindwa na mfumo wa kisasa kabisa dhidi ya makombora na ndege za kivita - sasa swali ni: ilikuwaje tena makombora yaliyo vurumishwa kutoka Iran yakazidi kete air defense sysems za Kimerikani, makombora ya Iran yali hit intended targets with dead accuracy ndani ya kambi ya kijeshi - wanajeshi wengi walijeruhiwa na wengine kupoteza maisha,niliwahi kusoma chapisho fulani lililo sema kwamba kambi hizo mbili zilikuwa zinalindwa na latest defense systems ambazo ni impregnable,nafikiri kambi zilindwa na THAAD air defense system.

Tukija kwenye uwezo wa Iron Dome ambazo wanashirikiana na kampuni ya Raytheon ya huko Merikani kuunda Iron Dome - hata hivyo uwezo wake bado ni highly questionable, hasa baada ya kushindwa ku-intercept rocket zilizo rushwa na kikundi cha Hamasi kutokea Gaza, walivurumishwa roketi 670 lakini Iron Dome alifanikiwa kuharibu roketi mia mbili tu! Baadae Israel inaleta kisingizio cha kitoto eti software za Iron Dome zimekuwa programmed to intercept roketi zinazo lenga makazi ya watu na infrastructure tu, nyingine zina achwa ku-land kwenye sand dunes/jangwani - Uongo mtupu.
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From the time in antiquity, the onus of proof rests on the person making an allegation. Israel stated that, it's iron dome system of defense is designed to cater for infrastructures and populated areas. On the other hand, you claim such explanation is concocted, now present precise pieces of evidence for the refutation so that we can buy your argument.
 
RTI said:
Mkuu huu mfumo ni dhaifu tu kama ulivyo mifumo mingine ya kimagharibi.

Hamas huwa wanaweza kurusha maroketi 100 lakini ukafanikiwa kiyaharibu maroketi hata 35 tu sema huwa hayaleti madhara makubwa kwa sababu yana uwezo mdogo wa kushababisha mlipuko.

sasa huoni ya kwamba huu ni udhaifu mkubwa?

Sasa kama unaonesha udhaifu mbele ya maroketi yanayo tengenezwa kienyeji, itaweza kuya dhibiti makombora yaliyo tengenezwa kwa teknolojia ya hali ya juu na yanayo tembea kwa kasi?
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Halaf kwakuongezea2 RTI mbali naham as amabo mako bora Yao hayana nguvu nauwezo mkubwa tuzungumzie hizbullah ambao walikua waizrael weng 2006 kwann hii mifumo isizuie mako bora ya hizbullah?
 
RTI said:
Mkuu huu mfumo ni dhaifu tu kama ulivyo mifumo mingine ya kimagharibi .
Hamas huwa wanaweza kurusha maroketi 100 lakini ukafanikiwa kiyaharibu maroketi hata 35 tu sema huwa hayaleti madhara makubwa kwa sababu yana uwezo mdogo wa kushababisha mlipuko.
sasa huoni ya kwamba huu ni udhaifu mkubwa?
Sasa kama unaonesha udhaifu mbele ya maroketi yanayo tengenezwa kienyeji, itaweza kuya dhibiti makombora yaliyo tengenezwa kwa teknolojia ya hali ya juu na yanayo tembea kwa kasi ?
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Kweli mahaba mabaya . Haya sawa
 
Bukyanagandi said:
Si ndio hapo mkuu!! Mwaka jana makombora ya Iran yalilipua/haribu kambi mbili za kijeshi za Merikani huko Iraq - US ilikuwa ikidai kwamba kambi hizo zilikuwa zinalindwa na mfumo wa kisasa kabisa dhidi ya makombora na ndege za kivita - sasa swali ni: ilikuwaje tena makombora yaliyo vurumishwa kutoka Iran yakazidi kete air defense sysems za Kimerikani, makombora ya Iran yali hit intended targets with dead accuracy ndani ya kambi ya kijeshi - wanajeshi wengi walijeruhiwa na wengine kupoteza maisha,niliwahi kusoma chapisho fulani lililo sema kwamba kambi hizo mbili zilikuwa zinalindwa na latest defense systems ambazo ni impregnable,nafikiri kambi zilindwa na THAAD air defense system.

Tukija kwenye uwezo wa Iron Dome ambazo wanashirikiana na kampuni ya Raytheon ya huko Merikani kuunda Iron Dome - hata hivyo uwezo wake bado ni highly questionable, hasa baada ya kushindwa ku-intercept rocket zilizo rushwa na kikundi cha Hamasi kutokea Gaza, walivurumishwa roketi 670 lakini Iron Dome alifanikiwa kuharibu roketi mia mbili tu! Baadae Israel inaleta kisingizio cha kitoto eti software za Iron Dome zimekuwa programmed to intercept roketi zinazo lenga makazi ya watu na infrastructure tu, nyingine zina achwa ku-land kwenye sand dunes/jangwani - Uongo mtupu.
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Hebu tujadili; huku "kushindwa" kwa Iron Dome ni kwa namna gani?

Kwamba ku-intercept makombora yanayoelekea kwenye makazi ya watu na miundombinu na kuto-intercept mengineyo ni kushindwa?

Unafahamu madhara ya kushindwa ku-intercept makombora yanayoelekea kwenye miundombinu muhimu na makazi ya raia?

Unau-question mfumo unaoweza ku-intercept makombora yanayoelekea kwenye makazi ya raia na kuyaacha makombora mengineyo yasiyo na athari kwa raia? Unafikiri ubora wa mfumo wa ulinzi wa anga ni lazima ufanye interception ya makombora kwa asilimia 100?
 
RTI said:
Mkuu huu mfumo ni dhaifu tu kama ulivyo mifumo mingine ya kimagharibi.

Hamas huwa wanaweza kurusha maroketi 100 lakini ukafanikiwa kiyaharibu maroketi hata 35 tu sema huwa hayaleti madhara makubwa kwa sababu yana uwezo mdogo wa kushababisha mlipuko.

sasa huoni ya kwamba huu ni udhaifu mkubwa?

Sasa kama unaonesha udhaifu mbele ya maroketi yanayo tengenezwa kienyeji, itaweza kuya dhibiti makombora yaliyo tengenezwa kwa teknolojia ya hali ya juu na yanayo tembea kwa kasi?
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Kwanza nikusahihishe! Mifumo yote duniani ni dhaifu. Hii ndio ilipaswa kuwa statement yako ya kwanza, sahihi, na si hicho ulichoandika.

Ndio maana hii mifumo hufanyiwa mabadiliko au maboresho (upgrades) ya mara kwa mara ili kuendana na mahitaji ya wakati. Hili linafanyika duniani kote.

Nimeuliza swali zuri tu; huo ulioshindwa ni upi na umeshindwaje?

Watu wengi wanatazama zaidi kinachoonekana ama wanachotaka kukiona na kukisikia, hawajishughulishi ama hawataki kufahamu kwa undani jinsi au namna ambavyo mambo hasa yalivyo. Hapa ndipo propaganda zinapofanya kazi.

Pia, wengi kwa kutazama tu matukio wanaweza kudhani jambo fulani limetokea kwa sababu fulani, lakini wengepata kufahamu zaidi kwa undani jinsi ambavyo jambo hilo limetokea, ni dhahiri wangeweza kutambua mapungufu katika mawazo yao ya awali kuhusiana na jambo hilo.

Huo mfumo ulioshindwa umeshindwaje?
 
FRANC THE GREAT said:
Kwanza nikusahihishe! Mifumo yote duniani ni dhaifu. Hii ndio ilipaswa kuwa statement yako ya kwanza, sahihi, na si hicho ulichoandika.

Ndio maana hii mifumo hufanyiwa mabadiliko au maboresho (upgrades) ya mara kwa mara ili kuendana na mahitaji ya wakati. Hili linafanyika duniani kote.

Nimeuliza swali zuri tu; huo ulioshindwa ni upi na umeshindwaje?

Watu wengi wanatazama zaidi kinachoonekana ama wanachotaka kukiona na kukisikia, hawajishughulishi ama hawataki kufahamu kwa undani jinsi au namna ambavyo mambo hasa yalivyo. Hapa ndipo propaganda zinapofanya kazi.

Pia, wengi kwa kutazama tu matukio wanaweza kudhani jambo fulani limetokea kwa sababu fulani, lakini wengepata kufahamu zaidi kwa undani jinsi ambavyo jambo hilo limetokea, ni dhahiri wangeweza kutambua mapungufu katika mawazo yao ya awali kuhusiana na jambo hilo.

Huo mfumo ulioshindwa umeshindwaje?
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Mkuu utajisumbua kutoa maelezo mengi sana lakini haitaondoa ukweli ya kwamba mifumo ya ulinzi ya kimagharibi ubora wao upo kwenye vitabu tu na si kwenye uhalisia.
 
Bukyanagandi said:
Si ndio hapo mkuu!! Mwaka jana makombora ya Iran yalilipua/haribu kambi mbili za kijeshi za Merikani huko Iraq - US ilikuwa ikidai kwamba kambi hizo zilikuwa zinalindwa na mfumo wa kisasa kabisa dhidi ya makombora na ndege za kivita - sasa swali ni: ilikuwaje tena makombora yaliyo vurumishwa kutoka Iran yakazidi kete air defense sysems za Kimerikani, makombora ya Iran yali hit intended targets with dead accuracy ndani ya kambi ya kijeshi - wanajeshi wengi walijeruhiwa na wengine kupoteza maisha,niliwahi kusoma chapisho fulani lililo sema kwamba kambi hizo mbili zilikuwa zinalindwa na latest defense systems ambazo ni impregnable,nafikiri kambi zilindwa na THAAD air defense system.

Tukija kwenye uwezo wa Iron Dome ambazo wanashirikiana na kampuni ya Raytheon ya huko Merikani kuunda Iron Dome - hata hivyo uwezo wake bado ni highly questionable, hasa baada ya kushindwa ku-intercept rocket zilizo rushwa na kikundi cha Hamasi kutokea Gaza, walivurumishwa roketi 670 lakini Iron Dome alifanikiwa kuharibu roketi mia mbili tu! Baadae Israel inaleta kisingizio cha kitoto eti software za Iron Dome zimekuwa programmed to intercept roketi zinazo lenga makazi ya watu na infrastructure tu, nyingine zina achwa ku-land kwenye sand dunes/jangwani - Uongo mtupu.
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Hizo kambi hazikuwa zikilindwa na Thaad na hizo habari za kuua wanajeshi wengi zilikuwa propaganda tu za Iran maana hamna uthibitisho.
 
Philipo D. Ruzige said:
Sasa uma hoja gani uliyotoa zaidi ya mipasho na mahaba tu.
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Mm nimeweka udhaifu ulionao huo mfumo
Wewe ulitakiwa uje na hoja za kuutetea kwamba ni imara na kuweka mifano
halisi ili kutete hoja yako.
sasa ww una kuja na mipasho sijui mahaba sijui nn hivi una dhani hapa tupo fb?
 
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